I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
How can this be a scam when there will be tens of thousands playing it before they have asked for a dime off anyone?
The product will be there for all to see. it will be reviewed to death. It is transparent and open.
What the hell is your problem?
This OP, and anyone how says 'I second this' is obviously somehow deficiant.
Stop trying to emotively link DF with unrelated fails due to vastly different circumstances from other Devs.
Originally posted by Lidane What's so unethical about a popular MMO website getting access to a highly anticipated game so they can either definitively prove that everything is on the level, or warn players of a potential danger?
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
I assume you know little about the journalism/advertising industries?
You're absolutely right if it weren't for two MASSIVE stumbling blocks. Firstly, just how much doubt there is about whether the game actually exists or not. The NDA must be threatening death to those who leak, seriously. Secondly, the fact that they're not asking for something for free that they would normally pay for.
Your last point is where your premises fail. Bashing the game and refusing to cover it is unethical. Warning a developer who could quite easily be blind to what the community is worrying about that there is a growing sense of something being amiss, and issuing them a statement that coverage and support for the game will have to stop in the interest of protecting users (a corporate responsibility) of their site until concrete evidence of the games existance is TOTALLY acceptable. Frankly, I'd expect nothing less.
Oh, and for the record, I'm a devout Tasos-lover, fanboi, and whatever else you want to accuse me of. I will be paying for the preorder. I've lost more money on poker games, and the reward outweighs the risk in my mind. That said, I still thoroughly support this movement - it can only bring good things for the prospects of the game.
To give my opinion on why things have gone as they have, what Tasos has said over and over again is that they did -not- want a big launch. They want to cultivate a small playerbase, exactly as they had been doing up until beta applications opened, and suddenly blew their expectations to pieces. They don't want 300,000 people on launch to complicate things and get upset (as ALWAYS happens with big launches) and vow never to come back to the game. Better to start with 50,000 and build it through word-of-mouth AFTER launch so everyone gets the best gaming experience possible. They now have to change their business model as it's become glaringly obvious that they aren't going to get the small launch that they wanted, and the undue risk of scaring half the mmorpg community away with a shoddy launch is something that could damn any future prospects for them as a developer.
Roll on the end of February and what I hope will be an awesome birthday present
The thing with pre-orders to me is the way the release will not meet the current demands, as said in the postponing article. So in short, if you don't pre-order or buy it at day 1, there's a chance you won't be able to play. I've seen quite some people saying they're going to pre-order no matter what... and if you count not everyone will be able to attend to the trial, oh well.
I'm not really bothered, I'm only going to touch my pockets once substantial information is given, be it 22nd January (if it happens) or weeks, maybe months after the release.
My hint is: don't pre-order or buy without trustworthy sources the game is worth subscribing, no matter how long it takes.
ilol you odnt understand at all it is mroe polsihed its just they want ot actulyl test right instead of thinking everythign will be ok like AOC did with there high end content
You're just not getting it are you? Let suppose you bought a farm and grew nthe best crops in the world. The suddenly you realized you have no way to harvest them. No transport to take them to market. No money to pay anyone to do it for you. It dosn't matter how great the crops are if they're just going to rot in the field due to your piss poor planning.
Aventurine does not have the resoursces to bring Darkfall to market. Apparently they can't or won't find a partner to help them do it. If they aren't able to generate enough income to pay for more servers and services it's all going down the toilet and the game isn't even finished yet. They haven't done the language localization or even had a full stress test. This is exactly what happened to Wish except those guys knew when to throw in the towel. Funcom may have released AoC in a horrible state but at least they had a plan and the money to do it. Aventurine has neither.
id otn see aproblem with a staged release?
they probly can afford a few servers.
it hink ffa pvp full loot was suppose to be nich i guess not... they probly can get enough servers few 100-200k people. hence pre orders workt o firgure out how many people they have. they def donthave the money to bring up more free trial servers for over a month
They havent said how many they can support at release only during the free trial period and they havent even said how many they can support during the free trial all they said is well over 200k apps and they cant support everyone. but will invite as many people as they can
Another part of the problem for MMORPG.com is they are supporting the fraud. They have it listed on a site called mmorpg.com and listed under 'games in development'.
I know the owners of this site get paid just because we are reading on the darkfall page, but at some point, shouldn't MMORPG.com say "hey, we are not going to perpetuat the myth that darkfall is an actual game without proof".
What a lot of people who are new to darkfall ( since say 2007) don't realize is that Darkfall has done this exact same thing twice already in 2003 and 2005. They said back then the game was complete and a few months away from launch.
MMORPG.COM is the one who decide which games get their own forums. Maybe we should hold them to task for that decision so that every two-bit 16yr old with a computer in is garage can't use these forums to hype his game.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
This is exactly what happened to Wish except those guys knew when to throw in the towel.
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
I think you might be giving a little too much credit to the critics or "trolls" of games. To think the game failed because people were critical or didn't think it would come out doesn't jive. Nameless and faceless criticisms don't bring down games, lack of funding and progress will.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
at least they said you will be allowed when the time comes : )
Just toplay a little "devils advocate", many games have been added to this site that did not and do not meet the qualifications, but were added due to popular demand. Therefore, it should also be possible to remove a game from this site if it is chosen to be so by popular demand. I ask for an official vote to be taken.
Nope. That's not going to be happening.
There are three ways that a game can be removed from our list:
1) we either stop hearing from the developers for a protracted period of time, and no indication of continued development is given. Darkfall doesn't fit here
2) The game shuts down. We get official word fromt he developers thatt his is the case. Darkfall doesn't fit this.
3) The game proves to be a legitimate scam. And I mean actual, law-breaking scam, not a poorly designed or implemented game.
There is a world of difference between adding a game to the list and removing a game from the list. We don't remove games from the list based on conjecture which is, to the best of mty knowledge, all anyone has at the moment.
I'm not say people shouldn't ask questions and be skeptical. Thatw as actually the last mline of my article yesterday.
This is exactly what happened to Wish except those guys knew when to throw in the towel.
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
Wow where do you get this stuff? So what did the trolls do go and kill thier investors, or steal the companies finances, plant viruses in their software? Back to reality here for a bit please. You know some games fail simply because their companies fail, and not all the postive glowy posts in the world changes that.
This forum has become a joke with all the " only looking out for you" trolls. Its starting to ruin the whole mmorpg site along with it. Sad, this site had potental
Im no troll. Im a fan of Darkfall and want the game to be a hit. A troll would want this game to fail then laugh if it does.
Im not taking issue with the delay, that happens. But this whole fiasco of no reviews, pre-orders only, etc smells bad. Something just isnt right here.
frankly Im tired of spending 50-90 dollars on a game that doesnt work.
I understand where your coming from, but who say's you have to spend 50-90 dollars on the game. Why can't the game be released and then way and see what it turns out to be like? I myself have no problem spending that money on darkfall when it comes out due to the fact that no other game has any potential that interests me.
A lot of players like to be in Early Access or at launch day. The first few weeks in a brand new MMO make for some great memories when your lost and stumbling to find how things work. Some of the best memories I have from games are at launch.
Others are achiever types and dont want to be left behind. They want to be the first to do - or the first to craft - or the first to find -, etc.
Hiding behind their NDA and using pre-orders shouldnt be an exploit for a developer to grab cash and dash. All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
just to reitterat:
All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
/amen
MMORPG Italia has tested the game.
Gaming websites and magaiznes for the most part get paid by the games they try out or interview because it is advertizment.
Generally speakign, you're wrong. Most websites and in my opinion any website worth reading (or magazine) doesn't get paid to write articles. The games may buy ad space, but that's a far cry from buying editorial content.
This isn't an accusation youy just throw out there. It's one that could destroy legitimate information sites.
OP...good Grief.Another person who wants another entity to take care of him and protect him from a possible bad purchase. When will some people ever grow up, and act like adults? Its a big world out there, and there are good choices and bad choices we as adults make in what we say/don't say..... do /don't do.Grow up. If you feel uneasy about something..it's probably your common sense actually trying to tell you something. LISTEN.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
at least they said you will be allowed when the time comes : )
This forum has become a joke with all the " only looking out for you" trolls. Its starting to ruin the whole mmorpg site along with it. Sad, this site had potental
Im no troll. Im a fan of Darkfall and want the game to be a hit. A troll would want this game to fail then laugh if it does.
Im not taking issue with the delay, that happens. But this whole fiasco of no reviews, pre-orders only, etc smells bad. Something just isnt right here.
frankly Im tired of spending 50-90 dollars on a game that doesnt work.
I understand where your coming from, but who say's you have to spend 50-90 dollars on the game. Why can't the game be released and then way and see what it turns out to be like? I myself have no problem spending that money on darkfall when it comes out due to the fact that no other game has any potential that interests me.
A lot of players like to be in Early Access or at launch day. The first few weeks in a brand new MMO make for some great memories when your lost and stumbling to find how things work. Some of the best memories I have from games are at launch.
Others are achiever types and dont want to be left behind. They want to be the first to do - or the first to craft - or the first to find -, etc.
Hiding behind their NDA and using pre-orders shouldnt be an exploit for a developer to grab cash and dash. All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
just to reitterat:
All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
/amen
MMORPG Italia has tested the game.
Gaming websites and magaiznes for the most part get paid by the games they try out or interview because it is advertizment.
Generally speakign, you're wrong. Most websites and in my opinion any website worth reading (or magazine) doesn't get paid to write articles. The games may buy ad space, but that's a far cry from buying editorial content.
This isn't an accusation youy just throw out there. It's one that could destroy legitimate information sites.
I agree entirely with this thread, MMORPG.com should attempt to protect its "customers", even if they're too stupid to protect themselves. I tend to hold to the idea that if you're an idiot, I deserve your money. But all this genre and industry needs is another failure...
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
I agree entirely with this thread, MMORPG.com should attempt to protect its "customers", even if they're too stupid to protect themselves. I tend to hold to the idea that if you're an idiot, I deserve your money. But all this genre and industry needs is another failure...
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
I agree totally. The interview was great in the questions, look at how it quickly unhinged Tasos. I applauded the interview for not just asking the hard questions, but for exposing Tasos' lack of professionalism.
I also found it to be quite funny in fact when certain posters here cite that interview as the reason that Aventurine hasnt been more cooperative with MMORPG.COM. Comedy gold.
You can call it threaten, but in fact it is not threatening them at all. Having proof that the game is coming out shows that mmorpg.com can be a trusted website. By having MMO's that do not come out or are scams it makes mmorpg.com its self look bad. So its a way for mmorpg.com to be safe and not get a bad rep, and allow the community of mmorpg.com to trust mmorpg.com. If I was the owner of this website I would be extremely skeptical of this game, especialy after the resent delay. They make so many claims and yet they delay it. They claim its jam packed and more complete than most MMO's on the market today. Those are huge claims. I personaly feel for this website mmorpg.com that they need to make sure that they are not advertising a game that may or may not be a scam. They should watch their own back and ask for real 100% proof in the form of playing the game so they do not look bad. Look at it this way. If someone came to you or a company with say this amazing new product to help repair arthritus not stop the pian but repair. But had no real evidence. Now thats a huge huge claim. Big! Now lets just say they just spew out alot of random info about it yet have no real testing to show if it really works. They have maybe 10 to 15 people claim it works yet you don't have their medical history, or know if they are paid off. The company refuses to show off their statistics and number of testers and do not allow you to come into contact with these 10 to 15 people that have video claims or working. Would you invest your money into it?
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any darkfall ads on the site.
Look, our Game List isn't a list of games that we endorse. There are quite a few games on the list that I wouldn't recommend. Our Game list is a list of available and in-development games and allow us to update our readers with new information when it becomes available (as we have most certainly been doing in the case of Darkfall), review the games and so forth.
Your scenario: I'm not investing money in anything (personally, I've never pre-odered anything in my life, either). What we're talking about here is a news and information site presenting... news and information as it becomes available to them. As I've said numerous times. You all know we aren't in. You all know we've asked to get in. you have the same information I do.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
Wait a sec, you want MMORPG.COM to protect you from yourself?
And to think that you want to play a game where the developers allows self-policing, when people cannot even do it in real life?
I would like to play Darkfall, but I know enough not to even touch it before it is released. Pretty simple.
Originally posted by Stradden So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
I think the above sums up the state of things. We need a reputable (well in MMORPG's case a moderately reputable ), independent journalist to review this game to see if it's anywhere near release. I hope Stradden gets a chance to look at this game before they start taking money.
* Leak sites count for naught
* MMORPG.IT was very restricted in what they saw and were allowed to do and their "write up" was totally novice
* random individuals visiting Greece and given tours of the studio do not count
* thenoob comic is totally biased since Tasos and Co. run her website and are friends
I WANT TO BELIEVE, they are making it very hard to so.
This is exactly what happened to Wish except those guys knew when to throw in the towel.
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
Everyone was upset when Wish folded. There were no trolls because those guys knew how to handle the public. They just ran out of time and money. On the other hand people will be lining up to piss on Darkfall's grave. Credit for that goes to Tasos.
I miss Wish. The day we all got laid off from that sucked... Same day you all dound out, by the way. That game was also in beta, with a few delays and having been there personally, I can assure eveeryone it wasn't a scam... Though as I recall tehre were a lot of people saying it was at the time. Trust me, there were trolls.
I dont know if mmorpg.com has asked about a sneak peek for Darkfall but with the latest doings, it seems time to demand it. For our sake, after all there have been a few scams in the past few years. mmo players are growing tired of indie developers asking for pre-order money then come launch day the game is 95% unfinished. It would sure be nice if mmorpg.com could step in here and protect the community from a possible scam here with Darkfall. At this point, all we've seen is a graniy edited video from a yr ago. There isnt much proof that this game even exists. And there are beta leaks that suggest the game is empty like Dark and Light was. My suggestion, mmorpg.com contacts Tasos and asks for a beta key to see for themselves if the game exists and delivers on its promises. A review is due us BEFORE we start giving an unproven and unknown developer money for an MMO we dont even know works. If Tasos refuses, pull Darkfall off the mmorpg.com list and post an article warning the community of a potential scam. If Tasos and Adventurine want to be taken seriously they will comply. If the game is just another scam where they grab all the money they can before launch day and then run for the hills, then it should be easy for mmorpg.com to find out in beta scams only hurt the industry. If this is another D&L players are going to be very leary of ever pre-ordering again. Plus it makes other indy devs look bad. Please look into this and confirm the game exists and works or let us know otherwise
Wait a sec, you want MMORPG.COM to protect you from yourself?
And to think that you want to play a game where the developers allows self-policing, when people cannot even do it in real life?
I would like to play Darkfall, but I know enough not to even touch it before it is released. Pretty simple.
the mroe people that wait the better it will give them time tog et mroe servers up when needed instead of making a small indie company do a big launch
I agree entirely with this thread, MMORPG.com should attempt to protect its "customers", even if they're too stupid to protect themselves. I tend to hold to the idea that if you're an idiot, I deserve your money. But all this genre and industry needs is another failure...
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
I agree totally. The interview was great in the questions, look at how it quickly unhinged Tasos. I applauded the interview for not just asking the hard questions, but for exposing Tasos' lack of professionalism.
I also found it to be quite funny in fact when certain posters here cite that interview as the reason that Aventurine hasnt been more cooperative with MMORPG.COM. Comedy gold.
they did say mmorpg.com willg et to review it so chill please
Comments
How can this be a scam when there will be tens of thousands playing it before they have asked for a dime off anyone?
The product will be there for all to see. it will be reviewed to death. It is transparent and open.
What the hell is your problem?
This OP, and anyone how says 'I second this' is obviously somehow deficiant.
Stop trying to emotively link DF with unrelated fails due to vastly different circumstances from other Devs.
It's just not civilised behavour for a media outlet to go to another company and demand access to their product whilst make threats to publish defamitory comments and remove the forum if they refuse. If mmorpg.com does not trust this game then they should remove the forum. Using ultimatums and threats in order to get their stories as you are advocating, even if that is what the readers want, is clearly against the standards most people hold the media to.
If they want to write an article bashing the game - fine.
If they want to not cover game - fine.
Using coercion and threats in order to get stories - not fine
I assume you know little about the journalism/advertising industries?
You're absolutely right if it weren't for two MASSIVE stumbling blocks. Firstly, just how much doubt there is about whether the game actually exists or not. The NDA must be threatening death to those who leak, seriously. Secondly, the fact that they're not asking for something for free that they would normally pay for.
Your last point is where your premises fail. Bashing the game and refusing to cover it is unethical. Warning a developer who could quite easily be blind to what the community is worrying about that there is a growing sense of something being amiss, and issuing them a statement that coverage and support for the game will have to stop in the interest of protecting users (a corporate responsibility) of their site until concrete evidence of the games existance is TOTALLY acceptable. Frankly, I'd expect nothing less.
Oh, and for the record, I'm a devout Tasos-lover, fanboi, and whatever else you want to accuse me of. I will be paying for the preorder. I've lost more money on poker games, and the reward outweighs the risk in my mind. That said, I still thoroughly support this movement - it can only bring good things for the prospects of the game.
To give my opinion on why things have gone as they have, what Tasos has said over and over again is that they did -not- want a big launch. They want to cultivate a small playerbase, exactly as they had been doing up until beta applications opened, and suddenly blew their expectations to pieces. They don't want 300,000 people on launch to complicate things and get upset (as ALWAYS happens with big launches) and vow never to come back to the game. Better to start with 50,000 and build it through word-of-mouth AFTER launch so everyone gets the best gaming experience possible. They now have to change their business model as it's become glaringly obvious that they aren't going to get the small launch that they wanted, and the undue risk of scaring half the mmorpg community away with a shoddy launch is something that could damn any future prospects for them as a developer.
Roll on the end of February and what I hope will be an awesome birthday present
The thing with pre-orders to me is the way the release will not meet the current demands, as said in the postponing article. So in short, if you don't pre-order or buy it at day 1, there's a chance you won't be able to play. I've seen quite some people saying they're going to pre-order no matter what... and if you count not everyone will be able to attend to the trial, oh well.
I'm not really bothered, I'm only going to touch my pockets once substantial information is given, be it 22nd January (if it happens) or weeks, maybe months after the release.
My hint is: don't pre-order or buy without trustworthy sources the game is worth subscribing, no matter how long it takes.
I'm all with the OP here.
You're just not getting it are you? Let suppose you bought a farm and grew nthe best crops in the world. The suddenly you realized you have no way to harvest them. No transport to take them to market. No money to pay anyone to do it for you. It dosn't matter how great the crops are if they're just going to rot in the field due to your piss poor planning.
Aventurine does not have the resoursces to bring Darkfall to market. Apparently they can't or won't find a partner to help them do it. If they aren't able to generate enough income to pay for more servers and services it's all going down the toilet and the game isn't even finished yet. They haven't done the language localization or even had a full stress test. This is exactly what happened to Wish except those guys knew when to throw in the towel. Funcom may have released AoC in a horrible state but at least they had a plan and the money to do it. Aventurine has neither.
id otn see aproblem with a staged release?
they probly can afford a few servers.
it hink ffa pvp full loot was suppose to be nich i guess not... they probly can get enough servers few 100-200k people. hence pre orders workt o firgure out how many people they have. they def donthave the money to bring up more free trial servers for over a month
They havent said how many they can support at release only during the free trial period and they havent even said how many they can support during the free trial all they said is well over 200k apps and they cant support everyone. but will invite as many people as they can
Another part of the problem for MMORPG.com is they are supporting the fraud. They have it listed on a site called mmorpg.com and listed under 'games in development'.
I know the owners of this site get paid just because we are reading on the darkfall page, but at some point, shouldn't MMORPG.com say "hey, we are not going to perpetuat the myth that darkfall is an actual game without proof".
What a lot of people who are new to darkfall ( since say 2007) don't realize is that Darkfall has done this exact same thing twice already in 2003 and 2005. They said back then the game was complete and a few months away from launch.
MMORPG.COM is the one who decide which games get their own forums. Maybe we should hold them to task for that decision so that every two-bit 16yr old with a computer in is garage can't use these forums to hype his game.
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
I think you might be giving a little too much credit to the critics or "trolls" of games. To think the game failed because people were critical or didn't think it would come out doesn't jive. Nameless and faceless criticisms don't bring down games, lack of funding and progress will.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
at least they said you will be allowed when the time comes : )
so much panic over nothing, just don't pre order.
wait and see what happens on the 22, not hard to wait, people seem to have been waiting years already.
Do you all panic this bad all the time?
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Nope. That's not going to be happening.
There are three ways that a game can be removed from our list:
1) we either stop hearing from the developers for a protracted period of time, and no indication of continued development is given. Darkfall doesn't fit here
2) The game shuts down. We get official word fromt he developers thatt his is the case. Darkfall doesn't fit this.
3) The game proves to be a legitimate scam. And I mean actual, law-breaking scam, not a poorly designed or implemented game.
There is a world of difference between adding a game to the list and removing a game from the list. We don't remove games from the list based on conjecture which is, to the best of mty knowledge, all anyone has at the moment.
I'm not say people shouldn't ask questions and be skeptical. Thatw as actually the last mline of my article yesterday.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
Wow where do you get this stuff? So what did the trolls do go and kill thier investors, or steal the companies finances, plant viruses in their software? Back to reality here for a bit please. You know some games fail simply because their companies fail, and not all the postive glowy posts in the world changes that.
Im no troll. Im a fan of Darkfall and want the game to be a hit. A troll would want this game to fail then laugh if it does.
Im not taking issue with the delay, that happens. But this whole fiasco of no reviews, pre-orders only, etc smells bad. Something just isnt right here.
frankly Im tired of spending 50-90 dollars on a game that doesnt work.
I understand where your coming from, but who say's you have to spend 50-90 dollars on the game. Why can't the game be released and then way and see what it turns out to be like? I myself have no problem spending that money on darkfall when it comes out due to the fact that no other game has any potential that interests me.
A lot of players like to be in Early Access or at launch day. The first few weeks in a brand new MMO make for some great memories when your lost and stumbling to find how things work. Some of the best memories I have from games are at launch.
Others are achiever types and dont want to be left behind. They want to be the first to do - or the first to craft - or the first to find -, etc.
Hiding behind their NDA and using pre-orders shouldnt be an exploit for a developer to grab cash and dash. All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
just to reitterat:
All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
/amen
MMORPG Italia has tested the game.
Gaming websites and magaiznes for the most part get paid by the games they try out or interview because it is advertizment.
Generally speakign, you're wrong. Most websites and in my opinion any website worth reading (or magazine) doesn't get paid to write articles. The games may buy ad space, but that's a far cry from buying editorial content.
This isn't an accusation youy just throw out there. It's one that could destroy legitimate information sites.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
OP...good Grief.Another person who wants another entity to take care of him and protect him from a possible bad purchase. When will some people ever grow up, and act like adults? Its a big world out there, and there are good choices and bad choices we as adults make in what we say/don't say..... do /don't do.Grow up. If you feel uneasy about something..it's probably your common sense actually trying to tell you something. LISTEN.
We've already asked to be allowed to view the game. We were told this would happen "when the time comes". Beyond that, there really isn't much that we can do.
As to your Game List idea: We don't use our Game List as a weapon. That would pretty much destroy our credibility. It's a list of available games, and not a list of who has done what we've told them to do.
Look, I'm not happy about it either, but it's the company's decision. I really can't force them to let me into their game. You, as a member of the community, and the communitty at large, need to make up your own minds about any game on our list, including this one. We never come down the mountain and tell you all what we want you to think. We try our best to inform you, to the best of our ability.
So here's the information I'm giving you now: A trial has been requested. We were told that we would be allowed to see it when the time came. We haven't seen it yet.
at least they said you will be allowed when the time comes : )
Positive to the end, gotta give you points there.
Im no troll. Im a fan of Darkfall and want the game to be a hit. A troll would want this game to fail then laugh if it does.
Im not taking issue with the delay, that happens. But this whole fiasco of no reviews, pre-orders only, etc smells bad. Something just isnt right here.
frankly Im tired of spending 50-90 dollars on a game that doesnt work.
I understand where your coming from, but who say's you have to spend 50-90 dollars on the game. Why can't the game be released and then way and see what it turns out to be like? I myself have no problem spending that money on darkfall when it comes out due to the fact that no other game has any potential that interests me.
A lot of players like to be in Early Access or at launch day. The first few weeks in a brand new MMO make for some great memories when your lost and stumbling to find how things work. Some of the best memories I have from games are at launch.
Others are achiever types and dont want to be left behind. They want to be the first to do - or the first to craft - or the first to find -, etc.
Hiding behind their NDA and using pre-orders shouldnt be an exploit for a developer to grab cash and dash. All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
just to reitterat:
All we need is someone with credentials to spend a few days playing to prove the game exists, some features at least are in the game, its stable, and worth paying for. That cant possible be considered an unreasonable request
/amen
MMORPG Italia has tested the game.
Gaming websites and magaiznes for the most part get paid by the games they try out or interview because it is advertizment.
Generally speakign, you're wrong. Most websites and in my opinion any website worth reading (or magazine) doesn't get paid to write articles. The games may buy ad space, but that's a far cry from buying editorial content.
This isn't an accusation youy just throw out there. It's one that could destroy legitimate information sites.
Not as far as some pretend eh? :P
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
I agree totally. The interview was great in the questions, look at how it quickly unhinged Tasos. I applauded the interview for not just asking the hard questions, but for exposing Tasos' lack of professionalism.
I also found it to be quite funny in fact when certain posters here cite that interview as the reason that Aventurine hasnt been more cooperative with MMORPG.COM. Comedy gold.
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen any darkfall ads on the site.
Look, our Game List isn't a list of games that we endorse. There are quite a few games on the list that I wouldn't recommend. Our Game list is a list of available and in-development games and allow us to update our readers with new information when it becomes available (as we have most certainly been doing in the case of Darkfall), review the games and so forth.
Your scenario: I'm not investing money in anything (personally, I've never pre-odered anything in my life, either). What we're talking about here is a news and information site presenting... news and information as it becomes available to them. As I've said numerous times. You all know we aren't in. You all know we've asked to get in. you have the same information I do.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Wait a sec, you want MMORPG.COM to protect you from yourself?
And to think that you want to play a game where the developers allows self-policing, when people cannot even do it in real life?
I would like to play Darkfall, but I know enough not to even touch it before it is released. Pretty simple.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
I think the above sums up the state of things. We need a reputable (well in MMORPG's case a moderately reputable
), independent journalist to review this game to see if it's anywhere near release. I hope Stradden gets a chance to look at this game before they start taking money.
* Leak sites count for naught
* MMORPG.IT was very restricted in what they saw and were allowed to do and their "write up" was totally novice
* random individuals visiting Greece and given tours of the studio do not count
* thenoob comic is totally biased since Tasos and Co. run her website and are friends
I WANT TO BELIEVE, they are making it very hard to so.
The results were awesome!! There was another game we never played, will never get to play, and it was amazing. The trolls won!!! It never came out!!! Sweet! Now let's go back to the awesome MMORPG's that are out right now and celebrate our victory!! Oh shit...
Everyone was upset when Wish folded. There were no trolls because those guys knew how to handle the public. They just ran out of time and money. On the other hand people will be lining up to piss on Darkfall's grave. Credit for that goes to Tasos.
I miss Wish. The day we all got laid off from that sucked... Same day you all dound out, by the way. That game was also in beta, with a few delays and having been there personally, I can assure eveeryone it wasn't a scam... Though as I recall tehre were a lot of people saying it was at the time. Trust me, there were trolls.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Wait a sec, you want MMORPG.COM to protect you from yourself?
And to think that you want to play a game where the developers allows self-policing, when people cannot even do it in real life?
I would like to play Darkfall, but I know enough not to even touch it before it is released. Pretty simple.
the mroe people that wait the better it will give them time tog et mroe servers up when needed instead of making a small indie company do a big launch
Sorry but people do have to learn from their mistakes sooner or later. One can not go through life thinking everyones gonna protect them. Sometimes we have to learn the Hardway. As much as i'd like MMORPG.COM to ask hardball question and take off the knit gloves. I do not view it as their job to try and protect everyone that logs in here to read a artical.
Did you read our last interview with Tasos? I would say we asked some hard questions.
I agree totally. The interview was great in the questions, look at how it quickly unhinged Tasos. I applauded the interview for not just asking the hard questions, but for exposing Tasos' lack of professionalism.
I also found it to be quite funny in fact when certain posters here cite that interview as the reason that Aventurine hasnt been more cooperative with MMORPG.COM. Comedy gold.
they did say mmorpg.com willg et to review it so chill please
Dont cry Vampurware!