Originally posted by Hrayr2148 There seems to be a general consensus that certain games, by either design or shear luck have a more mature community.
No, there's no such consensus. The fact that so many haters and trolls repeat this nonsense w/o any proof doesn't add to its credibility.
The games I hear are FFXI and LOTRO.
ROFL. FFO is a mature game? I would... argue... but can't... stop laughing. :-)
there are a lot more elitist douche bags than other games...
...says the same person who claimed that "the community in FFXI was light years ahead of WoW's". So who's the elitist (yes, fail elitist, but still) douchebag here?
For example, I hated the introduction of DPS Meters.
Ahh, I see. You failed to deliver an appropriate amount of DPS. And now, instead of trying harder, you, like every other hater, come here and whine. So very mature. So very adequate.
P.S. And people still wonder why I call WoW haters sore losers. Well, because they are.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
From my personal experience, the community in FFXI was light years ahead of WoW's. I enjoyed WoW for many reasons, the community was never one of them. I completely understand that some people don't care for community, that's fine, some of us do.
And from my experience while playing a level 51 Monk/Warrior on the Titan server and being the leader and founder of the linkshell Titan Mercenary's Guild, I can tell you that the community on my server were filled with Japanese elitism, racist US players, ignorant players that shun others who didn't catch on to chain skills/magic burst and would rather spend countless hours nitpicking players instead of educating them.
It also was the harshest place to get anything done with the countless mob training players who kept you from tagging NMs, players that refused to group up with you if you failed their gear checks or character builds, leaving some players looking for groups for DAYS.....yes DAYS to finish content or quest to get lvl 50 class gear.
No you're just remembering what you want without including all the cons that came along with the game as well. Unified community my ass.....if you didn't join and organized linkshell you might as well cancel your account....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
People who play one mmo are not genetically different than people who play another mmo. There is nothing that stops a 13 year old loud mouth from playing a so called "mature" game. Nor does having a small (usually from failed success) population does not make a game mature. As well as being new to mmos in the last 5 years make you incapable of understanding etiquettes or gaming.
It seems that every time someone complains about the community in one game they almost always do so by exhibiting the same exact mannerisms that they are complaining about. Calling people douchebags, elitists, etc. After reading a few paragraphs it because easy to see how these people have problems if this is how they act.
I run around a lot of these games where people cry about how awful (or great in some cases) the community is at every single turn and how nothing can be accomplished without some child ruining your enjoyment and I just don't have these issues. There is good and bad everywhere. It is the internet afterall.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Lot of people are tired of WOW being thrown in our faces when it comes to developing games making it into WOW, we're tired of our game populations being compared to WOW's, we're tired of the absurd statements about WOW being the best game.. (same tired statements). Also the wild numbers for WOW being thrown around with no real fact to back it up unless Blizzard has released sub numbers of late, first it was 8 mil , then 11 mil now 13 mil being claimed in this OP ??
Most of the older veteran gamers that tried WOW and didnt like it and the people that just don't like what WOW is in term of what a game offers get tired of seeing MMO after MMO for the last 3-4 year trying to copy the success of WOW and watching them fail one after another, why can't the game industry get the message already? Eventually when people graduate to more challenging MMOs and games perhaps the mainstream MMO studios will give us virtual worlds again. Until then there will be people giving MMOs a wide berth.
And once again just because something is popular doesnt mean its good...
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
Lot of people are tired of WOW being thrown in our faces when it comes to developing games making it into WOW, we're tired of our game populations being compared to WOW's, we're tired of the absurd statements about WOW being the best game.. (same tired statements). Also the wild numbers for WOW being thrown around with no real fact to back it up unless Blizzard has released sub numbers of late, first it was 8 mil , then 11 mil now 13 mil being claimed in this OP ??
Most of the older veteran gamers that tried WOW and didnt like it and the people that just don't like what WOW is in term of what a game offers get tired of seeing MMO after MMO for the last 3-4 year trying to copy the success of WOW and watching them fail one after another, why can't the game industry get the message already? Eventually when people graduate to more challenging MMOs and games perhaps the mainstream MMO studios will give us virtual worlds again. Until then there will be people giving MMOs a wide berth.
And once again just because something is popular doesnt mean its good...
Typically popular things are just accessible for everyone. Exactly that is the reason why popular things are just moderate, but not best in anything.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Originally posted by iZakaroN Typically popular things are just accessible for everyone.
So WoW is accessible now? Alright. How about a link to the armory profile of your character that has Gladiator title?
Or maybe you mean "accessible" as in "everyone and his dog can get to 80 given enough time." Well, that's hardly convincing then. For instance, average 6 years old kid already knows that 2+2=4. Does that mean that mathematical analysis is also "accessible" just because it's still math?
Exactly that is the reason why popular things are just moderate, but not best in anything.
Like Louvre, right?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
High burnout. Playing LOTR instead but not as much as WoW to avoid similar burnout, and am enjoying it more. I'm sure Blizz will survive and really miss me. (sarcasm mode deactivated)
Waiting for someone with a link to a graph showing the amount of suckage in wow compared to other mmo's.
For a person with the name 'Grandpagamer', why are you one of the most immature, obnoxious people on here? Is that an attempt at irony, or are you just going senile? And are you one of those oh-so-mature LOTRO players your talking about? Irony again, I suppose.
No link to a suckage graph? Its most likely lost in the link collection of sub totals and kudos from the experts on what is good and what isnt. Oh well, if you find it please post as we are all waiting.
Originally posted by ozy1 I go and watch TV for an hour or two and there another 3 or 4 pages of how bad WoW sucks.
So watching TV and reading troll posts is everything you do? Awesome. Just awesome. Well, I suspected that the life of WoW hater is a miserable existence. But reality surpasses all expectations.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
If you go by the numbers and the appeal then World Of Warcraft is number 1 hands down... People look at it out of their eyes.. some see WoW some see EvE.... but doesent change the fact hard numbers tell us WoW is better. The number will always win it is the only solid thing to base this off and WoW wins....
Also... to all of you that want "in depth" games... Your not going to find it in a MMO everything has been done 1000 times by someone EvE is a Spaceship game... which is orignal but someone has done it before im sure.... Darkfall... Active Interface.... Rakion... Offline games such as 2world Oblvion Morrowind... NOTHING is realy all that orignal you can only tweek it to give it a slightly diffrent feel.... pick the MMO that is best for you and it doesent have to be WoW.... but WoW has just as much depth as any of these other games...
MMOs are based around community basicly if you want to find a Offline game... that you like... and find its MMO counterpart... lol.... there for you get your favorite offline and you get to make friends and play with them...
WoW has more players than any other MMO and has retained that feat for over 5 years.. some will spin this as a possitive some as a negative.. its all subjective.
Its xmas eve.. go get drunk... and no not in-game.
After the first few minutes it starts to get repetitive, and it wasn't really thank much fun the first time. To be honest, it's like eating a piece of bread than coughing it up again and eating it, it's not much the first time and even less the nineth. When it comes to games, numbers can't really tell you much, they lack the reason for them, that's why we critics, duh.
Its the biggest MMORPG ever made, most popular, highest earning, and by far the most dominant. It'll be a long time before an MMORPG overpowers WoW, and with the new graphical update with Cataclysm, add a few more years onto that. The Lore of WoW also makes the limit of expansions quite high indeed. Why would Blizzard stop making a game that makes them billions? Only when WoW becomes very unpopular will that "crime" be dealt. So basically, I'm wondering why that with everyone thread posted, someone comes along and insults WoW. With 13 million active members, all paying £10 per month, it can't be that bad a game, can it? So why dis it as frequent as people do? Thanks!
The short answer is that WoW is easy and it's a themepark game. Most of the nerds who played MMORGPS before WoW (including myself) played games that were much more like alternate worlds, and not games. For a lot us, those were the golden days of MMOs. After WoW came out and became the most successful thing ever in the MMO industry, development teams started to focus on games like WoW, trying to get themselves a piece of the pie. With that a lot of developers stopped making sandbox MMOs like we were used to, and for us themepark games don't offer anything near the experience of what we experienced in sandbox games. It's not WoW's fault that it was so successful and that the rest of the industry tries to follow its lead, but it marks the turning point from sandbox to themepark that so many of us resent.
Originally posted by darkb457 After the first few minutes it starts to get repetitive
Just like every other PC game in history? ;-) Because they're just programs, limited by their code and inherently repetitive.
Originally posted by tcosaddict It's not WoW's fault that it was so successful and that the rest of the industry tries to follow its lead, but it marks the turning point from sandbox to themepark that so many of us resent.
And also grass used to be greener in good ol' days. ;-)
I despise terms like "themepark" and "sandbox", because they bear no actual meaning when applied to MMOs.
First, every game is essentially a piece of code and nothing else. What isn't in the code, isn't in the game. You have only so many classes to choose from, only so many abilities to learn. And every game engine, no matter how versatile, has its easily reachable limits. Therefore, "sandbox" isn't freedom. It's just RELATIVELY more freedom and ALWAYS at the expense of depth. Because more options means that every option is less polished.
But every MMO has non-linear gameplay. For instance, you're not forced to do anything particular in WoW. You can raid, PvP, quest, chat (or socialize in some other manner), explore, organize in-game events, etc. There are many options, but they are not infinite. Naturally, they're not infinite in ANY game.
The number of strategies/tactics that can lead to success is always limited too. Because abilities/skills/spells can't all be perfectly balanced. Some are always better than the rest. And PvE is always more restrictive than PvP because any AI is heavily handicapped.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
You should despise those terms, because they perfectly describe WoW no matter how hard you try to justify other MMOs being just as themeparky. Quest in area 1a-c done questing now you're high enough for area 2a-c, quest till you're high enough to do a raid only in 2b to get high enough to enter 3a-c on and on till endgame where you just raid the same dungeon to get items so you can enter higher raids that you need to do over and over for the next dung- oh wait an expansion, enter area 6a(no alternate routes) raid!..
Themepark
You're right about one thing though, the grass is greener - I can't help but wonder what MMOs would be like today if they followed the UO/AC style of MMO
Here is a challenge. Prove to me WoW is bad. Prove to me WoW the game is bad. Real evidence only. Don't for once use an oppinion because that expresses only your views.
Originally posted by Druz You should despise those terms, because they perfectly describe WoW no matter how hard you try to justify other MMOs being just as themeparky.
O'rly? So I'm wrong. Wikipedia is wrong. Everyone's wrong and only you're right even though you have no arguments. Awesome.
Quest in area 1a-c done questing now you're high enough for area 2a-c, quest till you're high enough to do a raid only in 2b to get high enough to enter 3a-c on and on till endgame
You should do some research before you post nonsense like this. WoW players never had to do quests to level up. In fact for some classes there were faster ways, like AoE grind (however boring it might be, it's a viable option). Now you can also level via PvP or cross-server instances. (Alright, PvP starts at LVL10 so for the first 2 hours you don't have this option.)
where you just raid the same dungeon to get items so you can enter higher raids that you need to do over and over
You don't have to raid at all in WoW. Many people prefer pure PvP, for instance. Like I said, you need to do some research or you'll embarrass yourself. In fact, you just did.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
You should despise those terms, because they perfectly describe WoW no matter how hard you try to justify other MMOs being just as themeparky.
O'rly? So I'm wrong. Wikipedia is wrong. Everyone's wrong and only you're right even though you have no arguments.
Haha are you seriously attempting to imply that it is not someones opinion posted on Wikipedia saying WoW isn't themeparky, but a fact?
Quest in area 1a-c done questing now you're high enough for area 2a-c, quest till you're high enough to do a raid only in 2b to get high enough to enter 3a-c on and on till endgame
You should do some research before you post nonsense like this. WoW players never had to do quests to level up. In fact for some classes there were faster ways, like AoE grind (however boring it might be, it's a viable option). Now you can also level via PvP or cross-server instances. (Alright, PvP starts at LVL10 so for the first 2 hours you don't have this option.)
You point out that you can't level up in PvP till 10 but you leave out AoE grinding until what? level 20? 30? If you keep making exceptions to level how exactly is it a viable option?
where you just raid the same dungeon to get items so you can enter higher raids that you need to do over and over
You don't have to raid at all in WoW. Many people prefer pure PvP, for instance. Like I said, you need to do some research or you just embarrass yourself. You just did.
You sure don't have to do mass instanced PvE for l33t items, you can do mass instanced PvP for l33t items. I can certainly see why you like WoW, you like shiny l33t items, WoW is one big shiny l33t item for you. So endgame is one big grab for the best items to do what once attained exactly? You don't understand that item hoarding isn't what I want in an MMO, the quests are boring the combat is boring I don't feel the pull of getting better and better items as you and others seem to get. Maybe it isn't the same journey when I am not looking forward to decking my character out in loot, but my eyes glaze over in predictable boredom, I think that is part of my problem with WoW... predictability
WoW this thread still going? WoW has more players than any other MMO and has retained that feat for over 5 years.. some will spin this as a possitive some as a negative.. its all subjective. Its xmas eve.. go get drunk... and no not in-game.
Got drunk last night. And into the morning. Still not feeling too hot. Got a steak cooking though. Yippee.
Originally posted by Druz Haha are you seriously attempting to imply that it is not someones opinion posted on Wikipedia saying WoW isn't themeparky, but a fact?
You didn't even click on the link, did you? And still you argue. That's massive fail, my friend.
You point out that you can't level up in PvP till 10 but you leave out AoE grinding until what? level 20? 30? If you keep making exceptions to level how exactly is it a viable option?
AoE grind is a part of regular grind which is available at level 1. If you like it, it's a perfectly viable option for leveling. Since you don't know such basics, it's obvious that you've never even played WoW.
You sure don't have to do mass instanced PvE for l33t items, you can do mass instanced PvP for l33t items.
I stopped reading at this point. Clearly you have absolutely no idea about WoW in its current state. No wonder that every statement in your post is false. Every. Last. One.
So please, play the game first.
Until then.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
love the classes in WoW, and even the pvp is decent once youre geared and specced properly
what i hate about wow and why i quit:
- gear-dependency: you cant do endgame content without first grinding some basic gear; been there done that on one character; sure as hell am not doing it again on another
- leveling: takes too long even with all the perks they keep throwing in
- time: the above two take too long; i want to dive right into my character; after your first 80, if each subsequent character started at 60 i would play much more.
- PVE-centricity: pve is dumb because AI in mmo's is dumb. once you figure out the formula to an encounter, the content is stuck on repeat so you can grind it
- lack of persistence: pvp was an afterthought, obviously; i wish winning BG's meant something. WG is a disaster.
- end game uniformity: there is the right way and the wrong way to spec and gear/gem/enchant in both pvp and pve. in the end, everyone looks very similar and plays with the most efficient spec; it's down to a science now. basically, despite all the crazy shit you can add onto your equipment, characters are hardly customizable. in addition, looking the way devs want me to look has been an issue for players from the start. they needed to add armor dyes YEARS ago.
- 80% of the world is irrelevant: azeroth is barren; my best memories are from places like ashenvale, barrens, tanaris just to name a few; and no one goes there to interact any longer
- cataclysm: some of the info released made me quit for good; why? they're adding more levels and more skills. the fragile pvp balance that is almost right at the moment will be destroyed once again, and we will have to wait another 6-8months until it's all fixed. this experience is stressful if your favourite class is on the short end of the stick.
WoW may be the best on the market now. but people have developed an allergy toward these types of games. for example, whenever i think of grinding for more tokens and repeating the same crap or fighting some dumb raid boss with a pre-determined strategy and outcome, i become nauseous, literally. people are VERY jaded these days because of this grind factor and spoon-fed content. most mmo'ers are looking for something very different. and because Cata's formula is very similar (gear dependency, catastrophic pvp/pve imbalances and leveling will remain), i do not see WoW offering anything new. im sure it will sell just fine though.
for Cata, they needed to add more depth in other ways than more levels/gear/skills. they needed to bring back meaningful world pvp and persistency to old regions therefore giving people opportunities to interact in areas other than arenas/bg's/raids.
Reading this thread I found at least five solid reasons why so many people hate WoW: Senile dementia:
They dream about the greener grass of the past. It doesn't matter to them that their fantasies are totally disconnected with reality. Flocking instinct:
They've never played WoW but are happy to jump on any bandwagon. Infantility:
They think they're cool when they hate something great. Trolling:
They don't need any speacil reason to hate anything publickly, no matter what it is. Disability:
They failed at simple tasks in WoW, like delivering the amount of DPS required for raiding. What's your reason?
Great, objective analysis on a 38 page thread by a guy named "WoWfan1996."
Comments
ROFL. FFO is a mature game? I would... argue... but can't... stop laughing. :-)
...says the same person who claimed that "the community in FFXI was light years ahead of WoW's". So who's the elitist (yes, fail elitist, but still) douchebag here?
Ahh, I see. You failed to deliver an appropriate amount of DPS. And now, instead of trying harder, you, like every other hater, come here and whine. So very mature. So very adequate.
P.S. And people still wonder why I call WoW haters sore losers. Well, because they are.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
And from my experience while playing a level 51 Monk/Warrior on the Titan server and being the leader and founder of the linkshell Titan Mercenary's Guild, I can tell you that the community on my server were filled with Japanese elitism, racist US players, ignorant players that shun others who didn't catch on to chain skills/magic burst and would rather spend countless hours nitpicking players instead of educating them.
It also was the harshest place to get anything done with the countless mob training players who kept you from tagging NMs, players that refused to group up with you if you failed their gear checks or character builds, leaving some players looking for groups for DAYS.....yes DAYS to finish content or quest to get lvl 50 class gear.
No you're just remembering what you want without including all the cons that came along with the game as well. Unified community my ass.....if you didn't join and organized linkshell you might as well cancel your account....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
People who play one mmo are not genetically different than people who play another mmo. There is nothing that stops a 13 year old loud mouth from playing a so called "mature" game. Nor does having a small (usually from failed success) population does not make a game mature. As well as being new to mmos in the last 5 years make you incapable of understanding etiquettes or gaming.
It seems that every time someone complains about the community in one game they almost always do so by exhibiting the same exact mannerisms that they are complaining about. Calling people douchebags, elitists, etc. After reading a few paragraphs it because easy to see how these people have problems if this is how they act.
I run around a lot of these games where people cry about how awful (or great in some cases) the community is at every single turn and how nothing can be accomplished without some child ruining your enjoyment and I just don't have these issues. There is good and bad everywhere. It is the internet afterall.
Lot of people are tired of WOW being thrown in our faces when it comes to developing games making it into WOW, we're tired of our game populations being compared to WOW's, we're tired of the absurd statements about WOW being the best game.. (same tired statements). Also the wild numbers for WOW being thrown around with no real fact to back it up unless Blizzard has released sub numbers of late, first it was 8 mil , then 11 mil now 13 mil being claimed in this OP ??
Most of the older veteran gamers that tried WOW and didnt like it and the people that just don't like what WOW is in term of what a game offers get tired of seeing MMO after MMO for the last 3-4 year trying to copy the success of WOW and watching them fail one after another, why can't the game industry get the message already? Eventually when people graduate to more challenging MMOs and games perhaps the mainstream MMO studios will give us virtual worlds again. Until then there will be people giving MMOs a wide berth.
And once again just because something is popular doesnt mean its good...
Lot of people are tired of WOW being thrown in our faces when it comes to developing games making it into WOW, we're tired of our game populations being compared to WOW's, we're tired of the absurd statements about WOW being the best game.. (same tired statements). Also the wild numbers for WOW being thrown around with no real fact to back it up unless Blizzard has released sub numbers of late, first it was 8 mil , then 11 mil now 13 mil being claimed in this OP ??
Most of the older veteran gamers that tried WOW and didnt like it and the people that just don't like what WOW is in term of what a game offers get tired of seeing MMO after MMO for the last 3-4 year trying to copy the success of WOW and watching them fail one after another, why can't the game industry get the message already? Eventually when people graduate to more challenging MMOs and games perhaps the mainstream MMO studios will give us virtual worlds again. Until then there will be people giving MMOs a wide berth.
And once again just because something is popular doesnt mean its good...
Typically popular things are just accessible for everyone. Exactly that is the reason why popular things are just moderate, but not best in anything.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Or maybe you mean "accessible" as in "everyone and his dog can get to 80 given enough time." Well, that's hardly convincing then. For instance, average 6 years old kid already knows that 2+2=4. Does that mean that mathematical analysis is also "accessible" just because it's still math?
Like Louvre, right?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I go and watch TV for an hour or two and there another 3 or 4 pages of how bad WoW sucks.
Playing Darkfall EU1 Server
High burnout. Playing LOTR instead but not as much as WoW to avoid similar burnout, and am enjoying it more. I'm sure Blizz will survive and really miss me. (sarcasm mode deactivated)
For a person with the name 'Grandpagamer', why are you one of the most immature, obnoxious people on here? Is that an attempt at irony, or are you just going senile? And are you one of those oh-so-mature LOTRO players your talking about? Irony again, I suppose.
No link to a suckage graph? Its most likely lost in the link collection of sub totals and kudos from the experts on what is good and what isnt. Oh well, if you find it please post as we are all waiting.
Right after you post the graph showing the amount of immature kids ruining the game.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
I thought about doing something similar just for laughs, but this does a very good job. Well played.
Agreed, very inventive. I like it.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
If you go by the numbers and the appeal then World Of Warcraft is number 1 hands down... People look at it out of their eyes.. some see WoW some see EvE.... but doesent change the fact hard numbers tell us WoW is better. The number will always win it is the only solid thing to base this off and WoW wins....
Also... to all of you that want "in depth" games... Your not going to find it in a MMO everything has been done 1000 times by someone EvE is a Spaceship game... which is orignal but someone has done it before im sure.... Darkfall... Active Interface.... Rakion... Offline games such as 2world Oblvion Morrowind... NOTHING is realy all that orignal you can only tweek it to give it a slightly diffrent feel.... pick the MMO that is best for you and it doesent have to be WoW.... but WoW has just as much depth as any of these other games...
MMOs are based around community basicly if you want to find a Offline game... that you like... and find its MMO counterpart... lol.... there for you get your favorite offline and you get to make friends and play with them...
Lvl 75 Black Mage/White Mage ffxi
Lvl 80 Druid WoW
Lvl 34 Ranger Aion
WoW this thread still going?
WoW has more players than any other MMO and has retained that feat for over 5 years.. some will spin this as a possitive some as a negative.. its all subjective.
Its xmas eve.. go get drunk... and no not in-game.
After the first few minutes it starts to get repetitive, and it wasn't really thank much fun the first time. To be honest, it's like eating a piece of bread than coughing it up again and eating it, it's not much the first time and even less the nineth. When it comes to games, numbers can't really tell you much, they lack the reason for them, that's why we critics, duh.
The short answer is that WoW is easy and it's a themepark game. Most of the nerds who played MMORGPS before WoW (including myself) played games that were much more like alternate worlds, and not games. For a lot us, those were the golden days of MMOs. After WoW came out and became the most successful thing ever in the MMO industry, development teams started to focus on games like WoW, trying to get themselves a piece of the pie. With that a lot of developers stopped making sandbox MMOs like we were used to, and for us themepark games don't offer anything near the experience of what we experienced in sandbox games. It's not WoW's fault that it was so successful and that the rest of the industry tries to follow its lead, but it marks the turning point from sandbox to themepark that so many of us resent.
And also grass used to be greener in good ol' days. ;-)
I despise terms like "themepark" and "sandbox", because they bear no actual meaning when applied to MMOs.
First, every game is essentially a piece of code and nothing else. What isn't in the code, isn't in the game. You have only so many classes to choose from, only so many abilities to learn. And every game engine, no matter how versatile, has its easily reachable limits. Therefore, "sandbox" isn't freedom. It's just RELATIVELY more freedom and ALWAYS at the expense of depth. Because more options means that every option is less polished.
Second, "sandbox" actually only implies non-linear gameplay. Proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_game
But every MMO has non-linear gameplay. For instance, you're not forced to do anything particular in WoW. You can raid, PvP, quest, chat (or socialize in some other manner), explore, organize in-game events, etc. There are many options, but they are not infinite. Naturally, they're not infinite in ANY game.
The number of strategies/tactics that can lead to success is always limited too. Because abilities/skills/spells can't all be perfectly balanced. Some are always better than the rest. And PvE is always more restrictive than PvP because any AI is heavily handicapped.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
You should despise those terms, because they perfectly describe WoW no matter how hard you try to justify other MMOs being just as themeparky. Quest in area 1a-c done questing now you're high enough for area 2a-c, quest till you're high enough to do a raid only in 2b to get high enough to enter 3a-c on and on till endgame where you just raid the same dungeon to get items so you can enter higher raids that you need to do over and over for the next dung- oh wait an expansion, enter area 6a(no alternate routes) raid!..
Themepark
You're right about one thing though, the grass is greener - I can't help but wonder what MMOs would be like today if they followed the UO/AC style of MMO
Here is a challenge. Prove to me WoW is bad. Prove to me WoW the game is bad. Real evidence only. Don't for once use an oppinion because that expresses only your views.
You should do some research before you post nonsense like this. WoW players never had to do quests to level up. In fact for some classes there were faster ways, like AoE grind (however boring it might be, it's a viable option). Now you can also level via PvP or cross-server instances. (Alright, PvP starts at LVL10 so for the first 2 hours you don't have this option.)
You don't have to raid at all in WoW. Many people prefer pure PvP, for instance. Like I said, you need to do some research or you'll embarrass yourself. In fact, you just did.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Haha are you seriously attempting to imply that it is not someones opinion posted on Wikipedia saying WoW isn't themeparky, but a fact?
You should do some research before you post nonsense like this. WoW players never had to do quests to level up. In fact for some classes there were faster ways, like AoE grind (however boring it might be, it's a viable option). Now you can also level via PvP or cross-server instances. (Alright, PvP starts at LVL10 so for the first 2 hours you don't have this option.)You point out that you can't level up in PvP till 10 but you leave out AoE grinding until what? level 20? 30? If you keep making exceptions to level how exactly is it a viable option?
You don't have to raid at all in WoW. Many people prefer pure PvP, for instance. Like I said, you need to do some research or you just embarrass yourself. You just did.You sure don't have to do mass instanced PvE for l33t items, you can do mass instanced PvP for l33t items. I can certainly see why you like WoW, you like shiny l33t items, WoW is one big shiny l33t item for you. So endgame is one big grab for the best items to do what once attained exactly? You don't understand that item hoarding isn't what I want in an MMO, the quests are boring the combat is boring I don't feel the pull of getting better and better items as you and others seem to get. Maybe it isn't the same journey when I am not looking forward to decking my character out in loot, but my eyes glaze over in predictable boredom, I think that is part of my problem with WoW... predictability
Got drunk last night. And into the morning. Still not feeling too hot. Got a steak cooking though. Yippee.
AoE grind is a part of regular grind which is available at level 1. If you like it, it's a perfectly viable option for leveling. Since you don't know such basics, it's obvious that you've never even played WoW. I stopped reading at this point. Clearly you have absolutely no idea about WoW in its current state. No wonder that every statement in your post is false. Every. Last. One.
So please, play the game first.
Until then.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
love the classes in WoW, and even the pvp is decent once youre geared and specced properly
what i hate about wow and why i quit:
- gear-dependency: you cant do endgame content without first grinding some basic gear; been there done that on one character; sure as hell am not doing it again on another
- leveling: takes too long even with all the perks they keep throwing in
- time: the above two take too long; i want to dive right into my character; after your first 80, if each subsequent character started at 60 i would play much more.
- PVE-centricity: pve is dumb because AI in mmo's is dumb. once you figure out the formula to an encounter, the content is stuck on repeat so you can grind it
- lack of persistence: pvp was an afterthought, obviously; i wish winning BG's meant something. WG is a disaster.
- end game uniformity: there is the right way and the wrong way to spec and gear/gem/enchant in both pvp and pve. in the end, everyone looks very similar and plays with the most efficient spec; it's down to a science now. basically, despite all the crazy shit you can add onto your equipment, characters are hardly customizable. in addition, looking the way devs want me to look has been an issue for players from the start. they needed to add armor dyes YEARS ago.
- 80% of the world is irrelevant: azeroth is barren; my best memories are from places like ashenvale, barrens, tanaris just to name a few; and no one goes there to interact any longer
- cataclysm: some of the info released made me quit for good; why? they're adding more levels and more skills. the fragile pvp balance that is almost right at the moment will be destroyed once again, and we will have to wait another 6-8months until it's all fixed. this experience is stressful if your favourite class is on the short end of the stick.
WoW may be the best on the market now. but people have developed an allergy toward these types of games. for example, whenever i think of grinding for more tokens and repeating the same crap or fighting some dumb raid boss with a pre-determined strategy and outcome, i become nauseous, literally. people are VERY jaded these days because of this grind factor and spoon-fed content. most mmo'ers are looking for something very different. and because Cata's formula is very similar (gear dependency, catastrophic pvp/pve imbalances and leveling will remain), i do not see WoW offering anything new. im sure it will sell just fine though.
for Cata, they needed to add more depth in other ways than more levels/gear/skills. they needed to bring back meaningful world pvp and persistency to old regions therefore giving people opportunities to interact in areas other than arenas/bg's/raids.
Reading this thread I found at least five solid reasons why so many people hate WoW:
Senile dementia:
The greener grass of the past. It doesn't matter to them that their fantasies are totally disconnected with reality.
Herd instinct:
They've never played WoW but are happy to jump on any bandwagon.
Infantility:
They think they're cool when they hate something great.
Trolling:
They don't need any special reason to hate something publicly, no matter what it is.
Disability:
They failed at simple tasks in WoW, like delivering the amount of DPS required for raiding.
What's your reason?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Great, objective analysis on a 38 page thread by a guy named "WoWfan1996."