if anything SV devs have been more full of shit than any other devs in mmo history
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
if anything SV devs have been more full of shit than any other devs in mmo history
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
Yeah but DF had been in development for the better part of a decade.
MO hasn't been scrapped and restarted twice and I think they've only been in development for 3? 4 years?
And the Swedish government may have given them money. Funcom is subsidized, so it's not unheard of for a government to do that for a game company. I dunno what kind of business incentives the Swedes offer for the industry. I know that Canada has a lot of really nice incentives for game studios, that's why companies keep opening branches up there.
If the US doesn't step up then another multi-billion dollar industry may move development out of the country entirely.
if anything SV devs have been more full of shit than any other devs in mmo history
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
Yeah but DF had been in development for the better part of a decade.
MO hasn't been scrapped and restarted twice and I think they've only been in development for 3? 4 years?
And the Swedish government may have given them money. Funcom is subsidized, so it's not unheard of for a government to do that for a game company. I dunno what kind of business incentives the Swedes offer for the industry. I know that Canada has a lot of really nice incentives for game studios, that's why companies keep opening branches up there.
If the US doesn't step up then another multi-billion dollar industry may move development out of the country entirely.
There is no stepping up for the US goverment. They have already over extended thereselfs and we are to the point where there is nothing that can be done to fix the issue. The goverment is all but run by the large companys and non of them want to budge on anything to help the people. Prices of every continue to climb and the min wages barely move to makeup for the gap.
So we send things overseas and to other countries to be made and produced due to a lower cost in the end. The only problem is that its a circle system where by shipping everything out of the country we lose jobs and there for can not afford to buy the goods.
The land of the free where you can do anything. Thats the biggest load of bull that was ever put out. Maybe back in the day when the goverment was drafted up and there for some years after. But today its far from anything close to that dream.
I would rather move to Canada, China, Japan or any other such place. Yes they may be more surpressed with what can and can't be done but at the end of the day do you see any of there goverments failing to support there country? The US has the largest national red line out of all of them. If push came to shove and Japan or China cut off all exports to the US we would be screwed to the point where Russia would look like a better place to live.
As far as game development.. It's just not cost effective to remain within the US. With all of the silly stupid patents on just about everything you can barely develop a game without stepping on two or three different patents and having to aquire a license to legaly get your game out there without getting sued into the ground.
If you preordered you get beta access..... why the fuck would you buy the box copy if digital download is available?
Also, I am pretty sure, since I am a person who preordered this game and was instantly able to access the beta that was advertised, if you buy the box copy you are still eligible for the download.
Quit making excuses to make the game look bad, I see it all over the forums. You had buyers remorse, and that is specifically why companies have no refund policies, not because they didn't deliver the product.
By the way... this is about Mortal Online, not Darkfall. Having played both games I can tell you that Mortal already is better, and should be looked at anxiously. Darkfall doesn't even deserve a place in this thread.
This thread is the best example of an over-excited teenager, spending his mommies money and not cognacent, or concerned with the legalities and policies involved..!
Now.. that Slapshot1188 has grown up, he wants to WARN the rest of this community about his personal errors and subsequent inability to understand the term & conditions, of what he was purchasing..! Ironically, this thread (or crusade).. is laughable. This whole fiasco is illustrative of how incompetent Slapshot1188 really is. Honestly.. comming back after the fact, to start a crusade, based on your own ignorance, really isn't a good idea. Because all you are doing is letting the rest of this community know how entirely incompetent you are. If you didn't read, or didn't think about it before-hand, then don't complain later. That is what children do.. uno, they don't take responsibility for their actions. Your excessive QQ is the tell-tale capper, that you still don't take responsibility for your actions.
/end thread
End thread, huh? Who died and made you God of MMORPG.com forums? Seriously....the thread will end when it ends. Just because you think everything that needs to be said has been said...doesn't make it so.
Fact of the matter is, for me anyway....we probably all need to STOP paying for betas. The developers will keep doing it as long as we're willing to pay.
So the lesson here is:
We gamers (I really just speak for myself here, but bear me out), could probably use to learn a little patience. We all get excited when a new game is on the horizon and we want to help in beta, or some of us, just want in beta to have a preview of what's to come. I know for myself....I'm just not going to be paying to "beta test" any more. I've done it twice now. Both times were nightmares, and probably because my motivation was to have a sneak peak into something that I already felt SURE I was going to love, so why not pay for it ahead of time and get to help out some in the process?
I think time has taught us (or at least me) that beta testing should be for working on bugs. Either they pay us to do that, or we do it for free because we want to help. Under no circumstances is CHARGING for beta a good sign. At the VERY least...it is a misnomer and what you're paying for is actually a game that is unfinished and the developers are, essentially, BORROWING your money. I am not a BANK, and I no longer intend to be in the business of loans, regardless of whether they are 50 or 100 dollars. Of course, this is just my take on it, and my own lesson learned.
/end thread... YES!
I decided that this thread is over... simply because responses like yours, which do not deal with the question at hand. Right or wrong, the OP was trying to warn us of his inability to read/understand/comprehend... a known StarVault policy.
His reason's for wanting his money back don't matter... Now, if you want to start a thread discussing the VALIDITY of how bad he thinks Mortal Online is, I'll respond there and clean out the trolls, but this thread is done, as I've already stated... The OP crusade is simply moronic..!
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
If you preordered you get beta access..... why the fuck would you buy the box copy if digital download is available? People pre-ordered the boxes either because they couldn't wait a week for the digital copies to go up on the store or they really wanted that box. Which is weird because the box is like 30 dollars more (because shipping is included....and it's shipping from sweden, go figure). I can understand getting the loot bag cause of all the stuff in there...but that's only if you were REALLY into the game and didn't care what happened. Dunno....just seems like saving 30 dollars and not having to worry about the mail system losing it in it's epic journey across the ocean wins. Maybe that's just me
Also, I am pretty sure, since I am a person who preordered this game and was instantly able to access the beta that was advertised, if you buy the box copy you are still eligible for the download.
Quit making excuses to make the game look bad, I see it all over the forums. You had buyers remorse, and that is specifically why companies have no refund policies, not because they didn't deliver the product.
By the way... this is about Mortal Online, not Darkfall. Having played both games I can tell you that Mortal already is better, and should be looked at anxiously. Darkfall doesn't even deserve a place in this thread.
I decided that this thread is over... simply because responses like yours, which do not deal with the question at hand. Right or wrong, the OP was trying to warn us of his inability to read/understand/comprehend... a known StarVault policy. His reason's for wanting his money back don't matter... Now, if you want to start a thread discussing the VALIDITY of how bad he thinks Mortal Online is, I'll respond there and clean out the trolls, but this thread is done, as I've already stated... The OP crusade is simply moronic..!
So you're actually free to leave the thread then. People are upset because they expected a product in September, were not given an update until almost November, didn't get the product in December and now we are into January and there's yet no sign of a shipment.
Sorry, but some people do expect that when they spend money, they get a product that was promised. If you are the type that doesn't mind bad customer service, no returns of emails, no questions answered when asked directly, and you've *already paid* well... that's your ignorance that allows you bliss. For the rest of us, we see StarVault using our money as an open ended loan, and the odds are once they get the first month's fees, then we will probably see a shipment.
There is actually good cause to be upset about not getting any updates, and not getting any replies to emails when you're asking about where your product is. I think most people realize you can get the client digitally -- and most probably will do that anyway. We bought a physical product -- the loot bag, or LE with more goodies, and expect that delivered in a timely manner. The game doesn't need to be released for the physical product. And when you charge full price for a *preorder* there is some expectation there.
Again, if you think the thread is over -- leave. The rest of us are still wondering why SV converted our money and made us investors instead of customers.
I decided that this thread is over... simply because responses like yours, which do not deal with the question at hand. Right or wrong, the OP was trying to warn us of his inability to read/understand/comprehend... a known StarVault policy. His reason's for wanting his money back don't matter... Now, if you want to start a thread discussing the VALIDITY of how bad he thinks Mortal Online is, I'll respond there and clean out the trolls, but this thread is done, as I've already stated... The OP crusade is simply moronic..!
Sorry, but some people do expect that when they spend money, they get a product that was promised. If you are the type that doesn't mind bad customer service, no returns of emails, no questions answered when asked directly, and you've *already paid* well... that's your ignorance that allows you bliss. For the rest of us, we see StarVault using our money as an open ended loan, and the odds are once they get the first month's fees, then we will probably see a shipment.
Ahm...I may have missed something, but what was you guys were promised/expecting? Don't tell me all this is over a box. O.o
I mean....I think it's been mentioned, but uhhh, wasn't the game not even scheduled for release until Q4 anyway? What is like, like a month apart? Why would you want the box for a game that hasn't even been released yet? o.O
As for the December part....I thought they said they would be shipping them just after Christmas. You _do_ know that Sweden is kinda far away, right? >.> Last I checked we didn't have teleporters or Santa powers....or did SV develop those without letting the rest of us know? Cause that'd be awesome.
I bet standard delivery times from another country is like more than 3 weeks. I mean I would be willing to bet it's not as easy as just throwing it on a plane. It's gonna pass through a couple different countries each with different customs checks and stuff.
I mean I'm just saying you guys might wanna chill. Even sending a postcard or a letter in the US takes about a week and they don't even cross country borders. This is a lot bigger than a letter and is passing through maybe half a dozen borders. Won't you feel all silly if it arrives in another two or three weeks after all this sound and fury? :P
I'm not even going to read the 14 pages of this topic, I mean comon, on their purchase page they specifically said no refunds. You had to agree to that before you could even buy the product, if you didn't read what you were getting into its your own damn fault.
lol people aren't mad because they were upfront...if anything SV devs have been more full of shit than any other devs in mmo history the differences between MO and those games you mentioned are that those games were actually playable with a reasonable amount of content whereas MO has virtually zero content and there is almost nothing to do whatsoever
buying Mortal Online is like buying a bag of expensive weed only to open the bag and find out its oregano...just a total WTF IS THIS SHIT?
The underlined part up there ^^^^^^^.........is what makes me wonder if developers even know what a sandbox is, and for that matter, if we players are even clear on what a sandbox is......
In a sandbox, you have a "shovel and a bucket." Are you saying that MO doesn't even give you the "tools" for making "fun" and "content?" What kind of "content" should a sandbox actually have, and what exactly defines a sandbox MMO. I bet if we all answered that we'd end up with almost as many answers as we have people in this thread. So how can devs even be sure what to put IN our "sandbox?" Tim just wants a shovel and bucket, while Sharon over here wants a shovel, a bucket, and some Dixie cups. (I know, lame analogy, but I'm trying to go with the sandbox theme here.)
So...I'm seriously asking, because I don't actually KNOW what MO has. And I'm also curious about whether or not we players can come up with a SOLID definition of what a sandbox MMO actually should be.
EDIT: Upon re-reading this, is seems pretty well off-topic. But I guess what I'm really asking is....is there really a product THERE? Is it really a "sandbox MMO" in development, OR....is it the shell of a game that may or may not ever be released? And......being that people signed agreements stating there are no refunds.....would there even be an legal recourse for them just taking the money and closing up shop? Things to ponder.
What's amusing to me is all the people trying to justify illegal practices. If you do not have the product in hand, then the no refund policy goes out the window. Until the product is in hand, it is illegal to say 'You cannot have your money back' for -any- reason.
It doesn't matter if the OP is right or wrong about wanting their refund, the long and the short of it, is they get their money back if they don't have the product in hand and they decide they don't want to purchase it.
Period.
That is the end of story really. Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to troll what is an illegal business practice. I don't follow many MMO's these days, but I know for a fact that if I gave a company money for a product, and never received that product, I would get my money back. This kind of thing goes beyond 'sketchy' and into 'illegal' in my book, so, thanks OP, now I know about a bad business that will never get any of my money.
This isn't about a taco not tasting good, it's about a service/product never rendered. Trying to keep hold of the money is stealing. Stealing is illegal.
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4.
Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't.
Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you.
Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4. Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't. Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you. Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
Correct^^..
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions.
If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4. Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't. Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you. Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
Correct^^..
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions.
If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
If there is no product delivered, the "NO REFUND" policy does not apply.
Please understand that logic. If you buy a product, and expect it in a reasonable amount of time, and never get it -- you are entitled to a refund under the law -- both Swedish and US laws.
I don't know much about this game, and I would never pay for a beta, but this thread is just stupid. What difference does it make if you don't have the game box yet? If the game isn't released yet, you aren't going to be able to do anything but look at it anyway.
I don't know much about this game, and I would never pay for a beta, but this thread is just stupid. What difference does it make if you don't have the game box yet? If the game isn't released yet, you aren't going to be able to do anything but look at it anyway.
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
I don't know much about this game, and I would never pay for a beta, but this thread is just stupid. What difference does it make if you don't have the game box yet? If the game isn't released yet, you aren't going to be able to do anything but look at it anyway.
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
Actually the scam is what they have done with the "no refunds" policy which many of us have stated is flat ILLEGAL!!! Do you understand what the word means? If not try dictionary.com.
What they stated in a newsletter has no legal bearing on the matter at hand. They are REQUIRED UNDER LAW TO CONTACT EACH AND EVERY PURCHASER OF THEIR PRODUCT AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE DELAY AND OFFER EITHER A REFUND OR ALLOW THE PURCHASER THE OPTION OF WAITING FOR A NEW STATED DELIVERY DATE. There is that friggin clear enough??
Keep giving them a pass and you are showing your ignorance of the law and life experience itself. My dream would be to see them get dragged into court and slapped with injunctions, fines, and prison time from here to hell and gone which would bankrupt the company and send a message to the other fraud merchants out there.
Of course as long as some people are wiling to be jello spine milky toasts that will drink the Kool-Aid like good little sycophants, companies will keep doing this crap. Maybe, just maybe some of you will grow up someday and revolt against this practice. Not holding my breath for that day though....too many of you are just too dumbed down to ever rebel.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
I don't know much about this game, and I would never pay for a beta, but this thread is just stupid. What difference does it make if you don't have the game box yet? If the game isn't released yet, you aren't going to be able to do anything but look at it anyway.
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
Actually the scam is what they have done with the "no refunds" policy which many of us have stated is flat ILLEGAL!!! Do you understand what the word means? If not try dictionary.com.
What they stated in a newsletter has no legal bearing on the matter at hand. They are REQUIRED UNDER LAW TO CONTACT EACH AND EVERY PURCHASER OF THEIR PRODUCT AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE DELAY AND OFFER EITHER A REFUND OR ALLOW THE PURCHASER THE OPTION OF WAITING FOR A NEW STATED DELIVERY DATE. There is that friggin clear enough??
Keep giving them a pass and you are showing your ignorance of the law and life experience itself. My dream would be to see them get dragged into court and slapped with injunctions, fines, and prison time from here to hell and gone which would bankrupt the company and send a message to the other fraud merchants out there.
Of course as long as some people are wiling to be jello spine milky toasts that will drink the Kool-Aid like good little sycophants, companies will keep doing this crap. Maybe, just maybe some of you will grow up someday and revolt against this practice. Not holding my breath for that day though....too many of you are just too dumbed down to ever rebel.
I didn't buy the beta, so this has nothing to do with me. I'm just interested in the game. And just because you type something about "the law" on the internet doesn't mean it's true, especially when you consider this company is based somewhere in Europe.
True, a credit card company with tons of financial muscle could potentially bully SV into some kind of refund situation, but that's a capitalistic law (read:bullshit), not a legal one.
Ok, look, the boxes are coming in another month because they have more time to work on it now because of a sponsorship with Nvidia. This is a good thing. More working on the game. You can still PLAY the game, which is why I assume you bought it in the first place, and you will get a box once it releases. If the game DOESN'T release, you can most definately sue them if you think it's worth your time.
They're trying to get things sorted out, give them a break.
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4. Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't. Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you. Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"?
My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah it's weird, but aren't you blaming SV for your own failure to read and understand the difference? It's not like they hid it or something, it was right there on the front page.
I just read that newsletter from July and it very clearly, at least to me, states this. Ship in September, release sometime in Q4...as far as the newsletter said anyway.
SV's bad for saying they would ship in September, but they also said that any updates needed would be shipped out as well.
I guess the bottom line here is that either way you would have had a box that didn't mean anything.
Which is exactly what buying the boxed version of any mmo is - more headache and a useless DVD after the install. There is never anything useful in the booklets either.
Well, they might have a no refund policy but consumer laws are pretty strict in Sweden, which is where they are operating from, right? I'm pretty certain that any Swedish company that fails delivery by more than like, a week, will have to offer a refund. Maybe someone ought to contact Konsumentverket(dept. of consumer rights) about this.
Like Darkfall.. this is what you get when you're dealing with amateurs.
Happily its not the polished s**t you get when dealing with any of the crap "professional" companies...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Comments
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
Yeah but DF had been in development for the better part of a decade.
MO hasn't been scrapped and restarted twice and I think they've only been in development for 3? 4 years?
And the Swedish government may have given them money. Funcom is subsidized, so it's not unheard of for a government to do that for a game company. I dunno what kind of business incentives the Swedes offer for the industry. I know that Canada has a lot of really nice incentives for game studios, that's why companies keep opening branches up there.
If the US doesn't step up then another multi-billion dollar industry may move development out of the country entirely.
Far from it.
There is one guy who drives fanboy hopes sky high, and many actual designers, engineers, artists, who are "down to earth" and realistic, even when it means crushing fanboys dreams.
The only thing questionable about SV is their business plan. I mean - SV earned 1 mln $ on preorders. When Aventurine wanted to delay DF launch for 6 months - they needed 25 mln $ loan.
Yeah but DF had been in development for the better part of a decade.
MO hasn't been scrapped and restarted twice and I think they've only been in development for 3? 4 years?
And the Swedish government may have given them money. Funcom is subsidized, so it's not unheard of for a government to do that for a game company. I dunno what kind of business incentives the Swedes offer for the industry. I know that Canada has a lot of really nice incentives for game studios, that's why companies keep opening branches up there.
If the US doesn't step up then another multi-billion dollar industry may move development out of the country entirely.
There is no stepping up for the US goverment. They have already over extended thereselfs and we are to the point where there is nothing that can be done to fix the issue. The goverment is all but run by the large companys and non of them want to budge on anything to help the people. Prices of every continue to climb and the min wages barely move to makeup for the gap.
So we send things overseas and to other countries to be made and produced due to a lower cost in the end. The only problem is that its a circle system where by shipping everything out of the country we lose jobs and there for can not afford to buy the goods.
The land of the free where you can do anything. Thats the biggest load of bull that was ever put out. Maybe back in the day when the goverment was drafted up and there for some years after. But today its far from anything close to that dream.
I would rather move to Canada, China, Japan or any other such place. Yes they may be more surpressed with what can and can't be done but at the end of the day do you see any of there goverments failing to support there country? The US has the largest national red line out of all of them. If push came to shove and Japan or China cut off all exports to the US we would be screwed to the point where Russia would look like a better place to live.
As far as game development.. It's just not cost effective to remain within the US. With all of the silly stupid patents on just about everything you can barely develop a game without stepping on two or three different patents and having to aquire a license to legaly get your game out there without getting sued into the ground.
If you preordered you get beta access..... why the fuck would you buy the box copy if digital download is available?
Also, I am pretty sure, since I am a person who preordered this game and was instantly able to access the beta that was advertised, if you buy the box copy you are still eligible for the download.
Quit making excuses to make the game look bad, I see it all over the forums. You had buyers remorse, and that is specifically why companies have no refund policies, not because they didn't deliver the product.
By the way... this is about Mortal Online, not Darkfall. Having played both games I can tell you that Mortal already is better, and should be looked at anxiously. Darkfall doesn't even deserve a place in this thread.
/end thread... YES!
I decided that this thread is over... simply because responses like yours, which do not deal with the question at hand. Right or wrong, the OP was trying to warn us of his inability to read/understand/comprehend... a known StarVault policy.
His reason's for wanting his money back don't matter... Now, if you want to start a thread discussing the VALIDITY of how bad he thinks Mortal Online is, I'll respond there and clean out the trolls, but this thread is done, as I've already stated... The OP crusade is simply moronic..!
___________________________
- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
So you're actually free to leave the thread then. People are upset because they expected a product in September, were not given an update until almost November, didn't get the product in December and now we are into January and there's yet no sign of a shipment.
Sorry, but some people do expect that when they spend money, they get a product that was promised. If you are the type that doesn't mind bad customer service, no returns of emails, no questions answered when asked directly, and you've *already paid* well... that's your ignorance that allows you bliss. For the rest of us, we see StarVault using our money as an open ended loan, and the odds are once they get the first month's fees, then we will probably see a shipment.
There is actually good cause to be upset about not getting any updates, and not getting any replies to emails when you're asking about where your product is. I think most people realize you can get the client digitally -- and most probably will do that anyway. We bought a physical product -- the loot bag, or LE with more goodies, and expect that delivered in a timely manner. The game doesn't need to be released for the physical product. And when you charge full price for a *preorder* there is some expectation there.
Again, if you think the thread is over -- leave. The rest of us are still wondering why SV converted our money and made us investors instead of customers.
Sorry, but some people do expect that when they spend money, they get a product that was promised. If you are the type that doesn't mind bad customer service, no returns of emails, no questions answered when asked directly, and you've *already paid* well... that's your ignorance that allows you bliss. For the rest of us, we see StarVault using our money as an open ended loan, and the odds are once they get the first month's fees, then we will probably see a shipment.
Ahm...I may have missed something, but what was you guys were promised/expecting? Don't tell me all this is over a box. O.o
I mean....I think it's been mentioned, but uhhh, wasn't the game not even scheduled for release until Q4 anyway? What is like, like a month apart? Why would you want the box for a game that hasn't even been released yet? o.O
As for the December part....I thought they said they would be shipping them just after Christmas. You _do_ know that Sweden is kinda far away, right? >.> Last I checked we didn't have teleporters or Santa powers....or did SV develop those without letting the rest of us know? Cause that'd be awesome.
I bet standard delivery times from another country is like more than 3 weeks. I mean I would be willing to bet it's not as easy as just throwing it on a plane. It's gonna pass through a couple different countries each with different customs checks and stuff.
I mean I'm just saying you guys might wanna chill. Even sending a postcard or a letter in the US takes about a week and they don't even cross country borders. This is a lot bigger than a letter and is passing through maybe half a dozen borders. Won't you feel all silly if it arrives in another two or three weeks after all this sound and fury? :P
I'm not even going to read the 14 pages of this topic, I mean comon, on their purchase page they specifically said no refunds. You had to agree to that before you could even buy the product, if you didn't read what you were getting into its your own damn fault.
The underlined part up there ^^^^^^^.........is what makes me wonder if developers even know what a sandbox is, and for that matter, if we players are even clear on what a sandbox is......
In a sandbox, you have a "shovel and a bucket." Are you saying that MO doesn't even give you the "tools" for making "fun" and "content?" What kind of "content" should a sandbox actually have, and what exactly defines a sandbox MMO. I bet if we all answered that we'd end up with almost as many answers as we have people in this thread. So how can devs even be sure what to put IN our "sandbox?" Tim just wants a shovel and bucket, while Sharon over here wants a shovel, a bucket, and some Dixie cups. (I know, lame analogy, but I'm trying to go with the sandbox theme here.)
So...I'm seriously asking, because I don't actually KNOW what MO has. And I'm also curious about whether or not we players can come up with a SOLID definition of what a sandbox MMO actually should be.
EDIT: Upon re-reading this, is seems pretty well off-topic. But I guess what I'm really asking is....is there really a product THERE? Is it really a "sandbox MMO" in development, OR....is it the shell of a game that may or may not ever be released? And......being that people signed agreements stating there are no refunds.....would there even be an legal recourse for them just taking the money and closing up shop? Things to ponder.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
What's amusing to me is all the people trying to justify illegal practices. If you do not have the product in hand, then the no refund policy goes out the window. Until the product is in hand, it is illegal to say 'You cannot have your money back' for -any- reason.
It doesn't matter if the OP is right or wrong about wanting their refund, the long and the short of it, is they get their money back if they don't have the product in hand and they decide they don't want to purchase it.
Period.
That is the end of story really. Anyone saying otherwise is just trying to troll what is an illegal business practice. I don't follow many MMO's these days, but I know for a fact that if I gave a company money for a product, and never received that product, I would get my money back. This kind of thing goes beyond 'sketchy' and into 'illegal' in my book, so, thanks OP, now I know about a bad business that will never get any of my money.
This isn't about a taco not tasting good, it's about a service/product never rendered. Trying to keep hold of the money is stealing. Stealing is illegal.
End of line.
The main problem here is people read September 1st as the release date and not the first day of Q4, the timefram when they expected to release the game. if everything went perfect then they could have released the game in september, but problems with the early beta caused that to be pushed back to later Q4.
Before Q4 was over they released a newsletter telling everyone why the boxes hadn't shipped and why they weren't shipping until later. The fact that they released the statement during Q4 means that it wasn't too late, September 1st was never the release date, just the first day of the quarter that the game was supposed to release in. If they had waited until after Q4 was over then the Op may have a point but they diddn't.
Now how do people expect them to ship the boxed version of the game whent he game isn't even out of testing, do you just want an empty box? For people who got the limited editions they have the same scenario, Even if all of the other contents of the box are ready you still have to wait for the game to be done before they can ship it to you.
Then there is a digital download available for everyone who bought the boxed versions, so if you end up getting the shipment after the exact release date you can still play the game. So what is the deal with getting the box again? You can still play the game the day it releases and you will get the box.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
Correct^^..
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions.
If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
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- Knowledge is power, ive been in school for 28 years!
Correct^^..
People ignorantly misread and acted on impulse, instead of being a tad bit frugal with mommies money. So (again) why is this thread still alive? The OP has already illustrated that he is incapable of admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for HIS actions.
If you buy something with a "NO REFUND" policy, then understand what that means. End of thread...
If there is no product delivered, the "NO REFUND" policy does not apply.
Please understand that logic. If you buy a product, and expect it in a reasonable amount of time, and never get it -- you are entitled to a refund under the law -- both Swedish and US laws.
Keep it civil guys. I urge you to stop attacking each other or this thread will be locked. Thanks!
I don't know much about this game, and I would never pay for a beta, but this thread is just stupid. What difference does it make if you don't have the game box yet? If the game isn't released yet, you aren't going to be able to do anything but look at it anyway.
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
My sig is just as logical as your posts are
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
Actually the scam is what they have done with the "no refunds" policy which many of us have stated is flat ILLEGAL!!! Do you understand what the word means? If not try dictionary.com.
What they stated in a newsletter has no legal bearing on the matter at hand. They are REQUIRED UNDER LAW TO CONTACT EACH AND EVERY PURCHASER OF THEIR PRODUCT AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE DELAY AND OFFER EITHER A REFUND OR ALLOW THE PURCHASER THE OPTION OF WAITING FOR A NEW STATED DELIVERY DATE. There is that friggin clear enough??
Keep giving them a pass and you are showing your ignorance of the law and life experience itself. My dream would be to see them get dragged into court and slapped with injunctions, fines, and prison time from here to hell and gone which would bankrupt the company and send a message to the other fraud merchants out there.
Of course as long as some people are wiling to be jello spine milky toasts that will drink the Kool-Aid like good little sycophants, companies will keep doing this crap. Maybe, just maybe some of you will grow up someday and revolt against this practice. Not holding my breath for that day though....too many of you are just too dumbed down to ever rebel.
"If you were as smart as you think you are, you would realize that you are an idiot"
To make it worse they would be looking at a metal box with a blank dvd on it as the game client is still in testing. if they shipped the boxes in that state then you could claim scam, thats why they arent shipping it until the game is in a state to release.
In other words people like to complain about issues that aren't even issues.
Actually the scam is what they have done with the "no refunds" policy which many of us have stated is flat ILLEGAL!!! Do you understand what the word means? If not try dictionary.com.
What they stated in a newsletter has no legal bearing on the matter at hand. They are REQUIRED UNDER LAW TO CONTACT EACH AND EVERY PURCHASER OF THEIR PRODUCT AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE DELAY AND OFFER EITHER A REFUND OR ALLOW THE PURCHASER THE OPTION OF WAITING FOR A NEW STATED DELIVERY DATE. There is that friggin clear enough??
Keep giving them a pass and you are showing your ignorance of the law and life experience itself. My dream would be to see them get dragged into court and slapped with injunctions, fines, and prison time from here to hell and gone which would bankrupt the company and send a message to the other fraud merchants out there.
Of course as long as some people are wiling to be jello spine milky toasts that will drink the Kool-Aid like good little sycophants, companies will keep doing this crap. Maybe, just maybe some of you will grow up someday and revolt against this practice. Not holding my breath for that day though....too many of you are just too dumbed down to ever rebel.
I didn't buy the beta, so this has nothing to do with me. I'm just interested in the game. And just because you type something about "the law" on the internet doesn't mean it's true, especially when you consider this company is based somewhere in Europe.
True, a credit card company with tons of financial muscle could potentially bully SV into some kind of refund situation, but that's a capitalistic law (read:bullshit), not a legal one.
Ok, look, the boxes are coming in another month because they have more time to work on it now because of a sponsorship with Nvidia. This is a good thing. More working on the game. You can still PLAY the game, which is why I assume you bought it in the first place, and you will get a box once it releases. If the game DOESN'T release, you can most definately sue them if you think it's worth your time.
They're trying to get things sorted out, give them a break.
#1 I don't get the newsletter. Didn't know that was a requirement of cutomers
#2 Are there any other examples of a company shipping a game.. with a box.. DVD... all that jazz... and the game wasn't "gold"?
My experience has always been that if a company tells me they plan to ship in month XYZ.. that means the game is out in month XYZ. There may be other examples when companies have shipped games.. in boxes with DVDs and all and it was a beta, but I have never heard of that before.. has anyone else?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@above
Yeah it's weird, but aren't you blaming SV for your own failure to read and understand the difference? It's not like they hid it or something, it was right there on the front page.
I just read that newsletter from July and it very clearly, at least to me, states this. Ship in September, release sometime in Q4...as far as the newsletter said anyway.
SV's bad for saying they would ship in September, but they also said that any updates needed would be shipped out as well.
I guess the bottom line here is that either way you would have had a box that didn't mean anything.
Which is exactly what buying the boxed version of any mmo is - more headache and a useless DVD after the install. There is never anything useful in the booklets either.
Just imo.
Well, they might have a no refund policy but consumer laws are pretty strict in Sweden, which is where they are operating from, right? I'm pretty certain that any Swedish company that fails delivery by more than like, a week, will have to offer a refund. Maybe someone ought to contact Konsumentverket(dept. of consumer rights) about this.
Lost and depressed, where are the good MMOs at?
Happily its not the polished s**t you get when dealing with any of the crap "professional" companies...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
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LordOfDarkDesire
The game isn't done yet. Why do you want a cardboard box and disc?