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EQ vs. WoW after 6 years on the market
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The 90% played a game to wind down, they do not need to seek challenge during the odd hours after a challening life, they already have achievement in real life.
The few who need a "real" MMO to fill the void of challenge and achievement, are those who cannot meet challenge in real life and failed to obtain the necessary achievement living as a real person.
I love self-proclaimed psychologists. This makes you look like an idiot. I have a great job as a contracted graphic design artist for Navy Intel in D.C., plenty of friends to go to clubs with, golfing, etc. Hardly an inability to achieve in RL, there for needing challenge in MMO's. Just as you said, some people need other types of games to feel accomplishment.
Sure, mindless hack n' slash is fun once in awhile, but personally, in an MMORPG setting, it doesn't fit for me. I don't know, maybe it's because I am an old school player that came up in PC gaming with UO/EQ...where you had harsh death penalties, the ability to lose gear if you weren't paying attention, etc. To me, sure it sucked sometimes, but it was also what made it fun. You had a fear of death, you had to know what you were doing and watch your back, you got to knowing your community because their weren't a thousand instances to segregate players...there for, got to know your server's community and knew who were the good players, who weren't, who were helpful and trustworthy, and who the dirtbags were.
Today's MMO's have almost no death penalty and no danger, other than a run back to where you were fighting and maybe a insignificant repair cost. Instances to deprive the MMO of an actual community, instant travel to make the world less open and insignificant... amongst other things. They are no longer MMO's, nor that niche genre. They are being phased out and moved in more of a direction of console play.
Not saying games like WoW shouldn't exist. Everyone is entitled to play what they want, and get a game like what they want. I just wish every company would stop making games LIKE it and flooding the market with the same dry, fast paced game play in MMO's. SOMEONE step up to the plate, grow a pair, and make a quality, challenging MMO again. EVE Online has some of those characteristics...guess that is why I am currently playing it. It drives me nuts when a lot of these newer players say that us old school people need to change with the times and deal with it. It's awfully selfish to tell those that want a challenging game they can't have it because the new age players (The majority) don't. There are plenty of MMO's (Almost all) to cater to your play style, why is it such a bad thing to ask for one to cater to ours? And I don't want to hear that it wouldn't produce, have a big enough player base, or make enough cash. If EVE can do it for 6 years and running, it is possible for another to do the same. Besides, I have seen tons of people come here and ask for such games.
This crap is still going on? wtf. X game is better than Y game because of Z we get it already.
"World of Warcraft is the perfect implementation of this genre." - Hilmar Petursson. CEO of CCP.
this
Playing: Rohan
Played (from best to worst): Shadowbane, Guild Wars, Shayia, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Runes of Magic, Rappelz, Archlord, Knight online, King of Kings, Kal online, Last chaos
Its funny how everyone attacks eachother on these forums over the most trivial thing, video games. Everyone has their own style, if the new age player wants new shiny ting tings fast then go play a game that lets you do that (WoW and Warhammer both allow for this) not bashing the game i had a blast playing WoW up until TBC with my friends then we all quit because the expansion and patches within it killed the game for us, notice how i said us not everyone. Im with the old school MMO players though, harsh death penalties, getting jumped in pvp and losing everything, traveling a giant world and exploring all the dungeons and trying to find new things is a blast for me. To each his/her own. Really funny to read these forums though and watch everyone bash each other over silly things.
this
Here's something funny... reread the original post. It's not the post that enraged people.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
That's because Blizz has something these other fools don't even understand. Pride.
NCsoft, SOE, the free to plays, they have none of it. They are corporate concerns making the corporate buck.
Company's like blizzard and bioware do well for one reason. They take pride in thier work. They don't just want the pretty art on the box and hype machinet o sell a few hundred thousand copy's so they can have thier pay day. What I see from these two company's and some others like them is art, by artists.
World of Warcraft and Everquest are two franchise names that will go down in entertainment history no matter what happens from here on out. These two entertainment titles between all expansions, sequals and subscriptions have made more money than any other single franchise in history besides star wars.
World of Warcraft has come along way in reversing the stereotype of the Everquest MMO player we saw on the news reports in the ninety's. Ozzy Ozborne rockin out the crazy train with his undead warlock in prime time comercials and Mr. T the night elf mohawk certainly played a role in this wide spread appeal.
All in all I think comparing the two is not that hard. World of Warcraft is what you get when you take something good and manage it properly.
Everquest 2 is what you get when you take something good and run it into the ground.
Also hellgate london. Tabula rassa. SWG My god the list goes on forever.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
The 90% played a game to wind down, they do not need to seek challenge during the odd hours after a challening life, they already have achievement in real life.
The few who need a "real" MMO to fill the void of challenge and achievement, are those who cannot meet challenge in real life and failed to obtain the necessary achievement living as a real person.
I love self-proclaimed psychologists. This makes you look like an idiot. I have a great job as a contracted graphic design artist for Navy Intel in D.C., plenty of friends to go to clubs with, golfing, etc. Hardly an inability to achieve in RL, there for needing challenge in MMO's. Just as you said, some people need other types of games to feel accomplishment.
Sure, mindless hack n' slash is fun once in awhile, but personally, in an MMORPG setting, it doesn't fit for me. I don't know, maybe it's because I am an old school player that came up in PC gaming with UO/EQ...where you had harsh death penalties, the ability to lose gear if you weren't paying attention, etc. To me, sure it sucked sometimes, but it was also what made it fun. You had a fear of death, you had to know what you were doing and watch your back, you got to knowing your community because their weren't a thousand instances to segregate players...there for, got to know your server's community and knew who were the good players, who weren't, who were helpful and trustworthy, and who the dirtbags were.
Today's MMO's have almost no death penalty and no danger, other than a run back to where you were fighting and maybe a insignificant repair cost. Instances to deprive the MMO of an actual community, instant travel to make the world less open and insignificant... amongst other things. They are no longer MMO's, nor that niche genre. They are being phased out and moved in more of a direction of console play.
Not saying games like WoW shouldn't exist. Everyone is entitled to play what they want, and get a game like what they want. I just wish every company would stop making games LIKE it and flooding the market with the same dry, fast paced game play in MMO's. SOMEONE step up to the plate, grow a pair, and make a quality, challenging MMO again. EVE Online has some of those characteristics...guess that is why I am currently playing it. It drives me nuts when a lot of these newer players say that us old school people need to change with the times and deal with it. It's awfully selfish to tell those that want a challenging game they can't have it because the new age players (The majority) don't. There are plenty of MMO's (Almost all) to cater to your play style, why is it such a bad thing to ask for one to cater to ours? And I don't want to hear that it wouldn't produce, have a big enough player base, or make enough cash. If EVE can do it for 6 years and running, it is possible for another to do the same. Besides, I have seen tons of people come here and ask for such games.
Exactly. I think to the easy-mode crowd, we could even make a comparison of Putt-Putt to real golf, where WOW is Putt-Putt and games like EQ are real golf.
Sure, Putt-Putt is easier, but I never heard of anyone over age 12 bragging over winning a game of Putt-Putt (Oh, maybe Lisabub would). Golf, on the other hand (although not my game) has meaningful challenges and wins.
I too am hoping we get back to some hard-core MMO's. They may not need the extreme time-syncs of the EQ days, but certainly should be more challenging that the current crop of MMO's.
Oooh, is it 'Make idiotic comparisons to make one feel better abotu the game we prefer' day again? Can I play?
WoW is like the Roadrunner and EQ is the Coyote. The Roadrunner is just merrily zipping along and the Coyote is using 'harcore' tactics and inventions in order to catch it. In the end the Roadrunner is slightly amused by the Coyote and goes on doing what it likes to do while the Coyote falls flat on his face and all his 'hard work' ends up being so much fluff.
The 90% played a game to wind down, they do not need to seek challenge during the odd hours after a challening life, they already have achievement in real life.
The few who need a "real" MMO to fill the void of challenge and achievement, are those who cannot meet challenge in real life and failed to obtain the necessary achievement living as a real person.
I love self-proclaimed psychologists. This makes you look like an idiot. I have a great job as a contracted graphic design artist for Navy Intel in D.C., plenty of friends to go to clubs with, golfing, etc. Hardly an inability to achieve in RL, there for needing challenge in MMO's. Just as you said, some people need other types of games to feel accomplishment.
Sure, mindless hack n' slash is fun once in awhile, but personally, in an MMORPG setting, it doesn't fit for me. I don't know, maybe it's because I am an old school player that came up in PC gaming with UO/EQ...where you had harsh death penalties, the ability to lose gear if you weren't paying attention, etc. To me, sure it sucked sometimes, but it was also what made it fun. You had a fear of death, you had to know what you were doing and watch your back, you got to knowing your community because their weren't a thousand instances to segregate players...there for, got to know your server's community and knew who were the good players, who weren't, who were helpful and trustworthy, and who the dirtbags were.
Today's MMO's have almost no death penalty and no danger, other than a run back to where you were fighting and maybe a insignificant repair cost. Instances to deprive the MMO of an actual community, instant travel to make the world less open and insignificant... amongst other things. They are no longer MMO's, nor that niche genre. They are being phased out and moved in more of a direction of console play.
Not saying games like WoW shouldn't exist. Everyone is entitled to play what they want, and get a game like what they want. I just wish every company would stop making games LIKE it and flooding the market with the same dry, fast paced game play in MMO's. SOMEONE step up to the plate, grow a pair, and make a quality, challenging MMO again. EVE Online has some of those characteristics...guess that is why I am currently playing it. It drives me nuts when a lot of these newer players say that us old school people need to change with the times and deal with it. It's awfully selfish to tell those that want a challenging game they can't have it because the new age players (The majority) don't. There are plenty of MMO's (Almost all) to cater to your play style, why is it such a bad thing to ask for one to cater to ours? And I don't want to hear that it wouldn't produce, have a big enough player base, or make enough cash. If EVE can do it for 6 years and running, it is possible for another to do the same. Besides, I have seen tons of people come here and ask for such games.
Exactly. I think to the easy-mode crowd, we could even make a comparison of Putt-Putt to real golf, where WOW is Putt-Putt and games like EQ are real golf.
Sure, Putt-Putt is easier, but I never heard of anyone over age 12 bragging over winning a game of Putt-Putt (Oh, maybe Lisabub would). Golf, on the other hand (although not my game) has meaningful challenges and wins.
I too am hoping we get back to some hard-core MMO's. They may not need the extreme time-syncs of the EQ days, but certainly should be more challenging that the current crop of MMO's.
I guess where we disagree is that I just don't find needless timesinks as an increased difficulty in a game.
A harsh death penalty is just a bigger time sink. More time spent earning gold to pay repair bills, regain lost xp, etc. It doesn't make the the specifics of the fight any more difficult. Requiring people to to endure 50 hours of mindlessly killing a mob just to get an access key for a zone isn't difficult. Sitting in a dungeon and killing placeholders on a predictable timer for countless hours isn't hard.
EQ employs the same basic mechanics as modern mmos, but it lacks many of the newer features and systems.
Honestly what I think made EQ hard and that most people harken back to is that EQ was new. No one had really any idea how the game worked. There was no manual to explain even the most basic things about the game. Spells like harmony and mezmorize went several months without the playerbase having any idea how they worked. The user interface was awful and made playing the game similar to playing a musical score from chikovsky. All combined with a mentality that players need to be punished for trying to do anything (note I did not say fail, but try) with massive time sinks. Adding risk doesn't make the game more challenging. That is like saying it is harder to play poker when betting $10,000 than when betting $10 a hand. Poker itself is no harder, but the risk is higher. Some like the thrill of more risk and others see no need for it. Both are still enjoying playing the same game.
Also the complaint that wow is so easy and eq required skill just stems from the limited resource system that eq used. When a mob only spawns 4 times a month and a guild filled with east coast players logs on before everyone else to kill it, that doesn't mean the rest of the server lacks skill. Once adjustments were made to the limited spawn system, it is funny how quickly everyone in eq turned into raiders. It really is almost identical to wow in that respect. Some guilds are progressed further along than others, but once all guilds were given decent access to content, they achieved.
Once the newness of mmos wore off, EQ is just like any other game on the market, but with less advanced systems, mechanics, scriptiing, ui, etc.
What I think the crux of many people anger/disappointment at the genre (and wow) is highlighted above in orange. People want something different, including myself. Sure there have been plenty of games that followed the EQ model, but there have been other that tried different approaches and have gone mostly unnoticed. The problem is the quality as almost all of those games have been awful. Dark and Light, Vanguard, Darkfall, Conan, Tabula Rasa, Horizons, Gods & Heroes, etc.
I think much of the resentment is that many games just don't measure up anymore. People are tired of waiting for years for the potential of a game to materialize.
So true, but it will fall on deaf, stubborn and mostly ignorant ears. Time does not equal depth or difficulty no matter how you slice it, UNLESS you just call ones supply of patience, a measure of difficulty. Bugs, tech problems, bad UIs and tools, a total lack of instruction, explanation or tutorials does not make the actual mechanics of the game deeper.
Wow is responsible for other games failing.
wow is responsible for the rescesion.
People in Rawanda are starving because of Wow.
Wow ate my dog.
Wow killed my fish.
Wow gave me herpes.
Wow is the reason my favorite game died.
Wow is the reason I hate life.
Wow is the reason I fail at everything.
Wow killed my mother.
Wow clubed 10 baby seals in patch 1.8
Wow raped my kitten.
Wow burned my house down with my wife inside it.
After WoW raped her.
I swear to fking god, this website needs a domain name change from mmorpg.com to wehatewow.com
the domain name www.wowhaters.com is open and available, I swear to god i'm gonna godaddy that sh1t for four years and redirect it to this site.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
It is if you want to play it like that.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
EQ is a great game. The community sucks my balls. SOE also sucks my balls. The community sucks on one of my balls while SOE sucks on the other one of my balls.
Essentially, EQ players are by and large aspie bungholes that think they are better than everyone else. SOE is also a collection of bungholes that think they are gods because SONY is in thier company name.
So Everquest 2 failed. Get over it.
(Edit: After reading this back to myself I just had to add "Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm (and forum warnings) in the morning!)
Ahh yes, I keep forgetting how great the WOW community is. The sucking balls thing brings it all back to me. Bungholes is good also ,you forgot to mention someones mom and Chuck Norris but one cant expect you to remember everything.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
EQ is a great game. The community sucks my balls. SOE also sucks my balls. The community sucks on one of my balls while SOE sucks on the other one of my balls.
Essentially, EQ players are by and large aspie bungholes that think they are better than everyone else. SOE is also a collection of bungholes that think they are gods because SONY is in thier company name.
So Everquest 2 failed. Get over it.
(Edit: After reading this back to myself I just had to add "Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm (and forum warnings) in the morning!)
Ahh yes, I keep forgetting how great the WOW community is. The sucking balls thing brings it all back to me. Bungholes is good also ,you forgot to mention someones mom and Chuck Norris but one cant expect you to remember everything.
Yes, because we have a sense of humor. We are pretty cool guy that dosent affraid of anything. Not even spelling mistakes. We arn't worried about looking like rocket scientists while we play (even though some of us are indeed rocket scientists). We are playing to have fun.
Everquest 2 is srss bsnss. Srss bsnss is for 9 to 5. By 7pm I want to be pwning noobs in a non fail bg group. I dont want to worry about having my grammer checked while i'm chillin in wintergrasp talking bout how the boogey man checks under his bed for chuck norris.
You know... fun? That thing you do when you let loose? When you vid with your guild on livestream naked with a lamp shade on your head doing the hustle to the tune of labamba?
Ya, that's the difference between the wow community and the EQ2 community. the EQ2 community shows up in a suit and expounds upon the virtues of proper use of the english language, all the while fidgeting uncomfortably due to the stick jammed in thier asses.
The wow community comes to the party in a toga, with a fith of vodka and "suck my balls" on thier forehead in dry erase marker.
Maybie its because we have real jobs and need a palce to blow off steam more than we need a place to prove ourselves.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
I don't think you are doing your math right.
Assuming things should be the same after an absolute span of time when the starting state was different is probably a bad idea.
WoW had far more customers after a year than EQ. But who knows what the rate of decline will be. WoW grew explosively it may crash explosively. It may decline at the same rate as EQ1 and therefore take much longer to see effects. We don't really know, but we do know that WoW had a much larger customer base to work off of than EQ1 did within its first 2 years.
The absolute numbers of decline would have to be huge for Blizzard to feel the same pressure SOE did at +6 years with much smaller numbers.
The main difference between WoW and EQ1 is probably not retention, but in attracting new people consistently. ALOT of people have quit WoW. EQ1 was terrible at attracting new people in fact, as an outsider looking in I can tell you it had a very bad reputation among non-players. Most old EQ players are very nostalgic and favorable about the game, in reality most people who knew of other people who played EQ thought they were nerds and complete losers and knew the game took up all their time, which is the main reason they thought they were losers. If they even knew of the game in the first place. I can tell you that i personally agree with this assessment. I played MUDs which required alot of time and had the same addicitive mechanics and I knew what EQ1 was doing. It was kind of amusing to me to see the few people who played in it real life kind of wanting to show off their accomplishment but also knowing most people would ridicule them. It is also amusing to see the hardcore people on this board and others never quite acknowledge this or say they have an awesome life. The fact is it doesn't matter whether you have an awesome life or not. You could collect tons and tons of rare sci-fi toys in mint condidtion and have a wonderful life, people would still make fun of you for spending all that money on toys and being a sci-fi geek. And that is and was EQ1. It is a stigma that is probably its biggest cause of decline in comparison to WoW. A stigma that was backed up with an enforced playstyle.
The defenders and lovers of EQ1 can say whatever they like about how awesome the game or community was it doesn't matter because this is about people perceptions and beliefs, not about "the truth". And the fact of the matter is one of the major selling points of WoW early on was that they would not be this way. When the WoW forum turned into a veritable war over 40 mand raids one of the major point of contention was that the game sold itself to not be that way. Many former-EQ players and people who purposely avoided EQ due to this stuff stated this many times. It is true that the WoW marketers tried to have it both ways, they in fact promised both. But the fact of the matter is a large number of people only played WoW because in this regard it promised to be the "cool EQ1" not the "uptight nerdy no-life EQ1".
And this is why they can get new players as well. People get tired of WoW, people trash it for not being deep enough. But it still has a reputation for being fun and cool and not all uptight. It does not have the huge, close to insurmountable barrier that EQ1 did to "normal" people. Again in the end that might all be BS. Most of us know WoW can get extremely grindy. But that is the same thing as the social no-life verdict that was passed onto EQ1 and still gets passed on to certain games and certain players today. Public ridicule is possibly the most socially destructive force in existence for humans. And whether the old EQ1 players realize it or not that is what they were up against. The game was doomed. Comparing the effects of the game mechanics on individual people will do little good. Because in the end WoW game mechanics were only changed to the extent that they could sell a certain idea to "normal" people such that it became socially accepted that WoW had a certain nature. It does not matter if the game has that nature or not. As long as the weight of social acceptance tilts that way. As long as blizzard does stuff that is plausibly in that direction that acceptance will stay in stasis. This is why they changed 40-man raiding. They did not want to. But the public opinion tide had turned and they knew it. The only reason 40 man raiding was changed was because they needed to keep up which side of the coin the public opinion was weighted on. They knew and know that it is VERY hard to change it. So once it is established you do NOT want to let it change as going back is really hard or impossible but at the same time as long as it is favorable towards you, you have a lot of leeway.
When 40 man raiding was becoming unpopular there were literally 10 threads an hour being created by different people. Blizzard cannot fight something like that. If they did they would have declined the same as EQ1. Not because raiding sucks (although it does) but because when that many people start saying similar things it WILL become public perception. Whether it is true or not it will become publicly accepted and if you say something different, no matter how well argued or supported by facts, you will be ridiculed. And what people were saying was pretty simple and pretty consistent: "I played WoW because I did not want to deal with all the old EQ1 shit" and "You lied. You promised i could play how i wanted and you let me until I got to max level. That is a bait and switch you a-holes". Blizzard did promise that and there was something like a bait and switch although I do not think Blizzard(Rob Pardo in this case specifically) understood that when they design the system. They thought raiding would be the natural progression for those that stuck around. That "normal" people would drift away. Clearly Rob had not studied gambling enough, but that is another story.
But in the end Blizzard is and was smart enough to understand that no matter what they had to preserve the image of the game they had successfully established. They would and will literally do anything to preserve it because that is the real secret to their success compared to EQ1. They successfully established the idea that WoW was EQ1 done to be fun, to not hassle you dumb ways only hardcore nerds liked. And when they put people into a playstyle that replicated one of the things that had given EQ1 its distastful stigma, there was a revolt. Again yes WoW is still grindy, it may even be true that in a sense WoW is no better than EQ1 for what "normal" people reviled it for. But for whatever reason the stuff that EQ1 did triggered this preception. I am not saying these perceptions were wise or extremely insightful. They certainly had an aspect of truth, EQ1 coined the term "catass". But that does not mean these perceptions are comprehensive, fair or show an honest picture of whole state of things. But they were and are there and have a profound effect.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
EQ is a great game. The community sucks my balls. SOE also sucks my balls. The community sucks on one of my balls while SOE sucks on the other one of my balls.
Essentially, EQ players are by and large aspie bungholes that think they are better than everyone else. SOE is also a collection of bungholes that think they are gods because SONY is in thier company name.
So Everquest 2 failed. Get over it.
(Edit: After reading this back to myself I just had to add "Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm (and forum warnings) in the morning!)
Ahh yes, I keep forgetting how great the WOW community is. The sucking balls thing brings it all back to me. Bungholes is good also ,you forgot to mention someones mom and Chuck Norris but one cant expect you to remember everything.
I've read people in this thread complaining about how bad the wow community is for things like Chuck Norris jokes and Emoting /train while in a conga line and dancing around. Even the toilet humor is mild.
It really makes me laugh how thin skinned the some players (mature, hardcore, adult, etc) have become and how quickly people have forgotten what a real bad community can do.
I have never had a chuck norris joke ruin a day of gaming for me. I cannot count how many game sessions I have had ruined by some asshole in a game who thinks griefing, training, ninja looting, exploiting or whatever is fun. There are some absolutely toxic communities out there.
Look at the community on this site for example. The mods have just had to go through several forums to post a new "no tolerance" policy in response to the amount of trolling and flaming going on. It is one giant glass house here with an angry mob of stone throwers.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
EQ is a great game. The community sucks my balls. SOE also sucks my balls. The community sucks on one of my balls while SOE sucks on the other one of my balls.
Essentially, EQ players are by and large aspie bungholes that think they are better than everyone else. SOE is also a collection of bungholes that think they are gods because SONY is in thier company name.
So Everquest 2 failed. Get over it.
(Edit: After reading this back to myself I just had to add "Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm (and forum warnings) in the morning!)
Ahh yes, I keep forgetting how great the WOW community is. The sucking balls thing brings it all back to me. Bungholes is good also ,you forgot to mention someones mom and Chuck Norris but one cant expect you to remember everything.
I've read people in this thread complaining about how bad the wow community is for things like Chuck Norris jokes and Emoting /train while in a conga line and dancing around. Even the toilet humor is mild.
It really makes me laugh how thin skinned the some players (mature, hardcore, adult, etc) have become and how quickly people have forgotten what a real bad community can do.
I have never had a chuck norris joke ruin a day of gaming for me. I cannot count how many game sessions I have had ruined by some asshole in a game who thinks griefing, training, ninja looting, exploiting or whatever is fun. There are some absolutely toxic communities out there.
Look at the community on this site for example. The mods have just had to go through several forums to post a new "no tolerance" policy in response to the amount of trolling and flaming going on. It is one giant glass house here with an angry mob of stone throwers.
If the worse chat you've seen is chuck norris jokes, you must not read chat very often. I saw the N word and other vulgarities on a regular basis. If training, ninja looting, etc was easier to accomplish, do you really think it wouldn't be happening in WoW? As far as exploiting, it happens, and often in every game.
Sticks and Stones...
People saying bad stuff is generally not as damaging as people actually doing stuff to you. You get too vulgar in a chat chanel, you get ignored and reported. Since WoW makes it harder to grief others than other games, less griefing occurs. The chat would have to get really bad for most people to really treat it as more than an irritant. On the other hand direct griefing will get someone fuming very fast.
No it isn't. You're thinking of EQ.
EQ is a great game. The community sucks my balls. SOE also sucks my balls. The community sucks on one of my balls while SOE sucks on the other one of my balls.
Essentially, EQ players are by and large aspie bungholes that think they are better than everyone else. SOE is also a collection of bungholes that think they are gods because SONY is in thier company name.
So Everquest 2 failed. Get over it.
(Edit: After reading this back to myself I just had to add "Ahhhh I love the smell of napalm (and forum warnings) in the morning!)
Ahh yes, I keep forgetting how great the WOW community is. The sucking balls thing brings it all back to me. Bungholes is good also ,you forgot to mention someones mom and Chuck Norris but one cant expect you to remember everything.
I've read people in this thread complaining about how bad the wow community is for things like Chuck Norris jokes and Emoting /train while in a conga line and dancing around. Even the toilet humor is mild.
It really makes me laugh how thin skinned the some players (mature, hardcore, adult, etc) have become and how quickly people have forgotten what a real bad community can do.
I have never had a chuck norris joke ruin a day of gaming for me. I cannot count how many game sessions I have had ruined by some asshole in a game who thinks griefing, training, ninja looting, exploiting or whatever is fun. There are some absolutely toxic communities out there.
Look at the community on this site for example. The mods have just had to go through several forums to post a new "no tolerance" policy in response to the amount of trolling and flaming going on. It is one giant glass house here with an angry mob of stone throwers.
Its all what one enjoys. Paying a monthly fee to see and hear morons insulting not only each other but anyone and everyone else is not my idea of money well spent. Disable trade some will say. Why should people have to disable trade? Trade channel is a tool that should be able to be used by everyone not a meeting place for the low lifes who populate it .
Originally posted by Iadien
If the worse chat you've seen is chuck norris jokes, you must not read chat very often. I saw the N word and other vulgarities on a regular basis. If training, ninja looting, etc was easier to accomplish, do you really think it wouldn't be happening in WoW? As far as exploiting, it happens, and often in every game.
Are you really asking to judge a community on what COULD happen?
I've heard all manners of slurs and vulgarities in many mmos and I am not going to single one game out for that as if it stands above the rest.
However I have never had a single day of wow ruined as a result of the intentional actions by another player looking to cause harm to other players. There are many games I cannot make that statement about and that overshadows chuck norris jokes by leaps and bounds. Even some foul mouthed kids.
Judging from the stories people here post, they make it sound like you log into wow and people jump out from the bushes to verbally attack you, ruin you day and just generally cause grief. There is never a decent player who might lend a helping hand, everyone is 12 years old and you can't hear a single thing other than people being mean to each other.
I'm not saying there are not jackasses in wow, but there are jackasses in every game and I will take a few jackasses over a community as a whole that finds it acceptable to berate newbies for asking the wrong question or saying the wrong thing and telling them to GTFO of "their" mmo or go back to wow (even if they have no idea where they came from). It is astounding how many games have this sort of weeding out policy among the elder players towards newbies. It is even more amazing when those same players ask why more people don't play their game.
[edit: added quote for clarity]
Im not judging anything on what might happen. I played your game for a bit over two years. I know what the community is like. You are trying to convince people that they didnt see or hear something with their own eyes and ears. WOW has the worst community of any MMO ive ever played period. Berating noobs is something ive seen a lot of in WOW by the way.
There's a reason training and other easily exploitable problems have been removed from a lot (all?) MMOs. Of course the same issues would come up.
I'm sorry you feel the ENTIRE EQ community is unacceptable (laughable at best), but the community is the reason that EQ and games like it still exist today.
You realize you're saying 150-200k people will all tell you to go back to WoW? That is ridiculous, because only a FEW people do that stuff. The vocal minority, ever hear of that?
Im not judging anything on what might happen. I played your game for a bit over two years. I know what the community is like. You are trying to convince people that they didnt see or hear something with their own eyes and ears. WOW has the worst community of any MMO ive ever played period. Berating noobs is something ive seen a lot of in WOW by the way.
Sorry grandpa, I wasn't talking to you, but rather Iadien when he suggested that wow be judged for something that "would" happen, but isn't currently.
I admit what happens in wow, but we disagree with on it being the worst community. If anyone is trying to force their opinion it is you. At least I can support my opinion with acts that make foul language look like a trip in the park, but perhaps you just lack exposure to other mmos to have a solid base of reference.
There's a reason training and other easily exploitable problems have been removed from a lot (all?) MMOs. Of course the same issues would come up.
I'm sorry you feel the ENTIRE EQ community is unacceptable (laughable at best), but the community is the reason that EQ and games like it still exist today.
You realize you're saying 150-200k people will all tell you to go back to WoW? That is ridiculous, because only a FEW people do that stuff. The vocal minority, ever hear of that?
You are right and it wasn't my intention to say the entire community is like that. Saying "as a whole" was a very very poor choice of words on my part. Furthermore I did not mean to imply that it was limited to everquest.
What I should have said was that it seems to be a widely accepted practice by many people. Hell you can see it happening right here on this site.