Combat looks extremely dull. Press Tab, press number-key of choice, win, loot, repeat. You would've thought manual aiming is something high caliber MMO's would aim for but they just can't break from the bog-standard MMO combat many of us have grown bored of.
Not impressed in the slightest. Saying that... I have high hopes for the story and RPG experience.
That combat video was quite dull. The ranged classes mostly sit there exchanging shots, troopers used those shields, smugglers used the cover (which was really the only part I thought looked kinda neat was the smuggler fighting).
The Jedi combat is highly disappointing. Granted I expected it to be like KOTOR so it's not really any different than that, but I guess I just wish we had a more Jedi Academy style SW MMO, but again, I knew it wasn't going to be like that a long time ago.
The combat looks like your typical MMO, slow paced. Sure it may not have an auto attack, but there's other MMOs that don't and their combat still isn't that fast paced. AoC still probably has the best combat system/animations despite the game well...you know.
The combat isn't bad, it's just nothing new. Some of the things the developers were saying during that vid were totally contradictory to what I was seeing. Hell, I bet the combat won't even be as engaging as Champions.
I dunno, I haven't been following SWTOR that much, but I hope there's some kind of travel powers like in Champions for Jedi. So they can jump/flip/backflip/speed around, otherwise they're really going to be a boring class.
All I can say is I hope the story/quests, crafting, world, social atmosphere, etc are all top notch because the combat is nothing to write home about.
I still think it was a bad idea for Bioware to make an MMO, but, luckily all they have to do is make a massive pop sensation of a game and it'll sell regardless, which it very well could. I mean if MW2 can, why not SWTOR?
---------------------------- "Hero of Time! Face me!"
The combat looks almost exactly like it did in the first two games, but flashier and with better animations. Just play the KOTOR games and you will feel what the combat is like in that game, minus the flare (like force jumps and sticky grenades and flame-throwers). You will be auto-attacking, but things like cover and stuff will add a little more variety to the old combat system.
Meh, BioWare knows about multiplayer online gaming too. They've had a few multiplayer titles they were associated with.
They made NWN1 - which was enhanced greatly by the user content players created.
What other multiplayer games did they release?
In any case - their experience in that field is nothing like Blizzard had.
Also - just because Blizzard hit a home run, doesn't mean BioWare will.
NWN1 was online of course, though many games were created using the aurora engine (BioWare is also in the game credits for NWN2, hey I said associated with, I didn't say fully developed) Didn't BG2 also have multiplayer? I honestly don't remember, if it did I didn't play the multiplayer.
Looks fun, but how fun it is to play depends on the mechanic depth for me (not the same as complexity). I think this game will have that, but I am not sure.
What did Blizzard know of MMOs before it created WoW?
Nothing - but, they DID know about multiplayer online gaming.
And then I say "but they never made an RPG" and then you go "Obviously." 1 point for you.
Bioware has been more innovative than Blizzard though, imho, and they do have some talent helping them out that knows about multiplayer content. Also, an advantage over WoW is TOR is being designed from the ground up for PvP for what that is worth, so that should help balance a lot.
Anyhow, I think a good team and dev/company culture help a lot with making good games of any genre. I think Bioware has that. They know their limits and they seem to have the help and engine they need to overcome them. More help than Blizzard had with the RPG aspect of WoW.
So, I think there's good reason to be optimistic for now. We can make a better judgment about how Bioware is doing when we are a couple months from launch.
What did Blizzard know of MMOs before it created WoW?
Nothing - but, they DID know about multiplayer online gaming.
Neverwinter Nights Online Persistent Worlds say hi2u.
I think he's more focused on the fact Bioware hasn't had to worry about game balance a LOT like Blizzard has. There's a point to this, and I think it is something to be aware of. Far from insurmountable for Bioware though.
Does flying up in a jetpack and launching a rocket at the poor guy/girl below look fun to me? Er, yah.
Does force push look fantastically cool in this? Yes it does. It also has some kick*** effects. Though I think maybe some of the abilities are abit OTT but hey, maybe thats the style to make you look powerful. I guess it goes alongside the awesome explosions.
Ooo and I think the sound effects are brilliant. I'm very optimistic considering that in my opinion is better than quite a few released MMO's, and we're still a year from release. 2011 Will be a good year for Kotor/Bioware fans.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
If release is a good year away from now, what does it matter? combat will change so many times before then, the stuff you see now is just fill in stuff.
If release is a good year away from now, what does it matter? combat will change so many times before then, the stuff you see now is just fill in stuff.
It won't be alien to what you saw in the video though. Thats pretty much what you should expect to see, bar a few extra animations and such.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
It wouldn't be fair to say that combat in TOR is bad, especially after seeing that they have improved animations to some extent in the last video but the thing is that many of us still see a lot of room for improvement. This is why combat to me still doesn't look fun.
However, it is difficult to say wether combat in TOR will actually be fun or not until we play it. Too many times I have seen game trailers that looked great and then ended up dissapointed after playing. Also, many times the game didn't look that exciting but discovered it was indeed great once I tried it. It is how all little details will work together that will make TOR as a whole fun or not. Someone here said that AoC has probably the best combat animations of all MMOs, and I tend to agree, but even so the game over all is not that good. That is why I don't jump to conclusions after watching TOR videos.
Originally posted by Melroc What did Blizzard know of MMOs before it created WoW?
Nothing - but, they DID know about multiplayer online gaming.
Neverwinter Nights Online Persistent Worlds say hi2u. I think he's more focused on the fact Bioware hasn't had to worry about game balance a LOT like Blizzard has. There's a point to this, and I think it is something to be aware of. Far from insurmountable for Bioware though.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Thats impossible as no game has ever launched with just 1 problem. I would say the closes thing would be CO.. and that was primarily a PvE game that couldn't get balances properly. I know the main reason I didn't play the game was due to the way melee characters were treated, and I know plenty more people would agree with me on that one. On the surface it looks like how they balanced the melee classes, but as I played in closed Beta for quite a few months I know that it was their combat mechanic that was the real problem.
Regardless, I'm not trying you to buy my argument, I'm giving you example of actual balance issues that caused a game to lose subscribers.. I don't have to go any further then that as it proves my point that not everyone will deal with imperfect balance, and that goes in PvP and PvE.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Thats impossible as no game has ever launched with just 1 problem. I would say the closes thing would be CO.. and that was primarily a PvE game that couldn't get balances properly. I know the main reason I didn't play the game was due to the way melee characters were treated, and I know plenty more people would agree with me on that one. On the surface it looks like how they balanced the melee classes, but as I played in closed Beta for quite a few months I know that it was their combat mechanic that was the real problem.
Regardless, I'm not trying you to buy my argument, I'm giving you example of actual balance issues that caused a game to lose subscribers.. I don't have to go any further then that as it proves my point that not everyone will deal with imperfect balance, and that goes in PvP and PvE.
You're missing my point. I'm sure FFXI lost people due to balance issues, but it still did tremendously well because balance is not the heart and soul of any game and the people that quit over such things are relatively small in number. Also, balance is one of the more adjustable quantities in a game, which, imho, is one reason why people are willing to put up with imbalances. Warhammer and CO had many more severe problems beyond class balance and THOSE are the problems people most often talked about and remembered; the ones that had the biggest and hence most memorable impact.
If ToR launches with somewhat poor game balance between classes and everything else is good or great, then ti will do tremendously well.
4) This game is being created to appeal to a wide audience. That audience will consist of players under the age of 18. Fantasy violence falls under this category. Blood and Gore due to decapitations do not. Loss of limbs and 2 hit combat will not be finding its way into this game. You have every right to dislike it, but complaining about it won't change it. The only person who's fun you'll be taking away from is your own if you decide to play the game. What are the chances of that happening?
As I said - I make my judgments as a gamer - not as a marketing executive. As a gamer - I have no concern at all regarding maximizing profits. I only care about how fun the game will be.
If I play a Star Wars game, I want it to feel like Star Wars. Having to hit an enemy 1/2 a dozen times to drop them will NOT feel like Star Wars.
The movies had one-hit kills (just ask Qui-Gon), and limbs being cut off, AND at least one decapitation (Jango Fett). I do not believe any of the films had an adult or NC-17 rating. They are widely considered to be children's films, in fact.
As for whether my complaints will change anything - that's irrelevant. This is a thread on a gaming site forum. Be content to allow others to express opinions you do not share.
Ummm... Kinda left me speechless for a second.. Are you not aware of how many times Obi Wan Kenobi was hit with a lightsaber only to survive to fight again? I mean in EP II and III he takes what? At least 2 or 3 hits by Count Dooku. Heck, Darth Maul gets his saber cut in 2 by Obi Wan and contiues on. In EP II alone count Dooku slashes Obi Wan's leg, then arm before Obi Wan falls and then is rescued by Anakin. Also, in many many fights, Jedi and Sith go on for quite sometime in saber battles without a killing blow. Jedi hit "half a dozen times" AT LEAST with each other before a killing blow. I know your thinking, yes its not direct hits, but now we are talking symantics of it as apposed to combat.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Comments
Combat looks extremely dull. Press Tab, press number-key of choice, win, loot, repeat. You would've thought manual aiming is something high caliber MMO's would aim for but they just can't break from the bog-standard MMO combat many of us have grown bored of.
Not impressed in the slightest. Saying that... I have high hopes for the story and RPG experience.
Nothing - but, they DID know about multiplayer online gaming.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Meh, BioWare knows about multiplayer online gaming too. They've had a few multiplayer titles they were associated with.
They made NWN1 - which was enhanced greatly by the user content players created.
What other multiplayer games did they release?
In any case - their experience in that field is nothing like Blizzard had.
Also - just because Blizzard hit a home run, doesn't mean BioWare will.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That combat video was quite dull. The ranged classes mostly sit there exchanging shots, troopers used those shields, smugglers used the cover (which was really the only part I thought looked kinda neat was the smuggler fighting).
The Jedi combat is highly disappointing. Granted I expected it to be like KOTOR so it's not really any different than that, but I guess I just wish we had a more Jedi Academy style SW MMO, but again, I knew it wasn't going to be like that a long time ago.
The combat looks like your typical MMO, slow paced. Sure it may not have an auto attack, but there's other MMOs that don't and their combat still isn't that fast paced. AoC still probably has the best combat system/animations despite the game well...you know.
The combat isn't bad, it's just nothing new. Some of the things the developers were saying during that vid were totally contradictory to what I was seeing. Hell, I bet the combat won't even be as engaging as Champions.
I dunno, I haven't been following SWTOR that much, but I hope there's some kind of travel powers like in Champions for Jedi. So they can jump/flip/backflip/speed around, otherwise they're really going to be a boring class.
All I can say is I hope the story/quests, crafting, world, social atmosphere, etc are all top notch because the combat is nothing to write home about.
I still think it was a bad idea for Bioware to make an MMO, but, luckily all they have to do is make a massive pop sensation of a game and it'll sell regardless, which it very well could. I mean if MW2 can, why not SWTOR?
----------------------------
"Hero of Time! Face me!"
The combat looks almost exactly like it did in the first two games, but flashier and with better animations. Just play the KOTOR games and you will feel what the combat is like in that game, minus the flare (like force jumps and sticky grenades and flame-throwers). You will be auto-attacking, but things like cover and stuff will add a little more variety to the old combat system.
NWN1 was online of course, though many games were created using the aurora engine (BioWare is also in the game credits for NWN2, hey I said associated with, I didn't say fully developed) Didn't BG2 also have multiplayer? I honestly don't remember, if it did I didn't play the multiplayer.
Looks fun, but how fun it is to play depends on the mechanic depth for me (not the same as complexity). I think this game will have that, but I am not sure.
Btw, your post reminds me of Chris Matthews.
And then I say "but they never made an RPG" and then you go "Obviously." 1 point for you.
Bioware has been more innovative than Blizzard though, imho, and they do have some talent helping them out that knows about multiplayer content. Also, an advantage over WoW is TOR is being designed from the ground up for PvP for what that is worth, so that should help balance a lot.
Anyhow, I think a good team and dev/company culture help a lot with making good games of any genre. I think Bioware has that. They know their limits and they seem to have the help and engine they need to overcome them. More help than Blizzard had with the RPG aspect of WoW.
So, I think there's good reason to be optimistic for now. We can make a better judgment about how Bioware is doing when we are a couple months from launch.
Neverwinter Nights Online Persistent Worlds say hi2u.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
I think he's more focused on the fact Bioware hasn't had to worry about game balance a LOT like Blizzard has. There's a point to this, and I think it is something to be aware of. Far from insurmountable for Bioware though.
Well to answer the OP's original question.
Does flying up in a jetpack and launching a rocket at the poor guy/girl below look fun to me? Er, yah.
Does force push look fantastically cool in this? Yes it does. It also has some kick*** effects. Though I think maybe some of the abilities are abit OTT but hey, maybe thats the style to make you look powerful. I guess it goes alongside the awesome explosions.
Ooo and I think the sound effects are brilliant. I'm very optimistic considering that in my opinion is better than quite a few released MMO's, and we're still a year from release. 2011 Will be a good year for Kotor/Bioware fans.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
If release is a good year away from now, what does it matter? combat will change so many times before then, the stuff you see now is just fill in stuff.
It won't be alien to what you saw in the video though. Thats pretty much what you should expect to see, bar a few extra animations and such.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
It wouldn't be fair to say that combat in TOR is bad, especially after seeing that they have improved animations to some extent in the last video but the thing is that many of us still see a lot of room for improvement. This is why combat to me still doesn't look fun.
However, it is difficult to say wether combat in TOR will actually be fun or not until we play it. Too many times I have seen game trailers that looked great and then ended up dissapointed after playing. Also, many times the game didn't look that exciting but discovered it was indeed great once I tried it. It is how all little details will work together that will make TOR as a whole fun or not. Someone here said that AoC has probably the best combat animations of all MMOs, and I tend to agree, but even so the game over all is not that good. That is why I don't jump to conclusions after watching TOR videos.
Nothing - but, they DID know about multiplayer online gaming.
Neverwinter Nights Online Persistent Worlds say hi2u.
I think he's more focused on the fact Bioware hasn't had to worry about game balance a LOT like Blizzard has. There's a point to this, and I think it is something to be aware of. Far from insurmountable for Bioware though.
To be fair WoW at launch had laughably bad class balance. My Retribution Paladin was a joke for nearly the first 3 years.
Then all of a sudden it became a demigod that could 2 shot everybody. Those were interesting times.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
It's too bad that while Blizzard could get away with it, Bioware doesn't have such luxury. If classes aren't balanced everyone goes back to we-know-which-game.
People do accept imperfect game balance. Honestly the hard core PvPers are far, far from the majority of the gaming population.
Also, Bioware has a small advantage in that the game is being designed with PvP balance in mind. WoW wasn't and its class balance is achieved in spite of PvE to PvP disparities that are quite large. That should help them make up the shortfall a bit.
Anyhow, there's reason for optimism. I plan on buying ToR at this time, though I'll revisit that decision a month or two before release when we know a lot more.
I don't think imperfect game balance flies anymore honestly. Two good examples would be WAR and CO. WAR became frightfully unbalances at around Tier 2 with ironbreakers doing immense amounts of AOE damage. On CO the melee characters became worthless in comparison to ranged combat... though that was mainly due to a faulty combat mechanic but it increased the difficulty to play melee characters 10 fold.
Name one game where the only real problem is/was combat balance and I'll buy your argument.
Thats impossible as no game has ever launched with just 1 problem. I would say the closes thing would be CO.. and that was primarily a PvE game that couldn't get balances properly. I know the main reason I didn't play the game was due to the way melee characters were treated, and I know plenty more people would agree with me on that one. On the surface it looks like how they balanced the melee classes, but as I played in closed Beta for quite a few months I know that it was their combat mechanic that was the real problem.
Regardless, I'm not trying you to buy my argument, I'm giving you example of actual balance issues that caused a game to lose subscribers.. I don't have to go any further then that as it proves my point that not everyone will deal with imperfect balance, and that goes in PvP and PvE.
You're missing my point. I'm sure FFXI lost people due to balance issues, but it still did tremendously well because balance is not the heart and soul of any game and the people that quit over such things are relatively small in number. Also, balance is one of the more adjustable quantities in a game, which, imho, is one reason why people are willing to put up with imbalances. Warhammer and CO had many more severe problems beyond class balance and THOSE are the problems people most often talked about and remembered; the ones that had the biggest and hence most memorable impact.
If ToR launches with somewhat poor game balance between classes and everything else is good or great, then ti will do tremendously well.
Ummm... Kinda left me speechless for a second.. Are you not aware of how many times Obi Wan Kenobi was hit with a lightsaber only to survive to fight again? I mean in EP II and III he takes what? At least 2 or 3 hits by Count Dooku. Heck, Darth Maul gets his saber cut in 2 by Obi Wan and contiues on. In EP II alone count Dooku slashes Obi Wan's leg, then arm before Obi Wan falls and then is rescued by Anakin. Also, in many many fights, Jedi and Sith go on for quite sometime in saber battles without a killing blow. Jedi hit "half a dozen times" AT LEAST with each other before a killing blow. I know your thinking, yes its not direct hits, but now we are talking symantics of it as apposed to combat.
I cant wait. Im just going to trek around the pvp zones as a jedi knight!
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