Give them HP I say . ... if its going to raise the population and make it easier for new people I am totally for it.
They have done things to 'help raise skills faster' like scrolls and books which turned out to be pretty much useless. I wouldn't be surprised at all if its just a different formula to raise HP and potions that raise one Stat for only a couple dozen seconds . ..
There is still going to be a grind and I assure you that you have not wasted any time with getting what you have already earned.
Just think of how cool this game will be when the pop rises!
I predict another boom soon for DF2010 and another one after more people have tried MO.
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Hmm, "comptetitive gamer" complaining about whiners and justifies his willingness to use hacks through false logic. Yay for the "hardcore."
Rules that get continually broken so the weaklings can compete with the best?
Weaklings? LMAO! You take this silly game far too serious.
I felt I just had to say something about how an iron butt takes time and dedication to develop-- but then I remembered that some people in Darkfall, many of them in many ways, got to be what is being inferred to be 'strong', here, not by sitting and concentrating on the game but by setting up macros and being afk.
Thus, to judge high stats as being invariably the product of dedication or even savvy is a mistake. Sometimes they are. But after a while, it's just SOP. And, so often, what seems like dedication is an ability to afford to spend the time quite divorced from any real effort in finding the time. That somewhat devalues the idea that people are being deprived of earned rewards, even if things were being made much easier and that is not proven.
Really, the most dangerous opponents for anyone (in Darkfall) were those people who had skill that wasn't reflected in numbers after day one, or week one, or the first month or six months; practice improved nearly everyone in the mechanical sense, but what of those who got all their skill increases while ATK and in PvP? (Yes, boys and girls, there were some. They were dangerous-- from the early, early days-- to people with more accumulated skill points gotten from mere macroing.) They, too, may have made quite an investment in time, but not just in time. They were not merely diligent.
It is a good idea (and I say this with no intention of going back to Darkfall myself) to make things easier (as in, a bit less ridiculously tedious-- only a bit) for these kinds of folks as well as the rest, should Darkfall be able to attract and retain any new ones at this late stage.
And, in conclusion, I do not believe after one page of reading that the OP knows what diminishing returns are, and to discuss this issue intelligently that seems necessary to me.
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
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if the increase on skill gain is so damn awesome why the game population is lower that 9 months ago ?
i really like to get a clear answer about this
Erm, why the game population is lower today then 9 months ago?
Maybe the novelity wear off, maybe the grind killed them, maybe the new players realized they would never compete. Who cares. The fact is we have an all time low on EU1 with only 1980 active clan players. 1980 players is the number we have with a huge grind.
AV will fix a tiny part of the grind. They let new players get a little more health and the grinders nerdrage. The pvpers can only pray AV can stop the decline of players. We have had DF for more than a year, and we know for a fact a huge grind is making the population decline. We have the numbers so no one can deny this fact.
poplulation will increase once a box version is put on the shelves. Allowing noobs to compete with vets aren't really going to bring back as many players as people are pretending, the whiners just want an easy game and will always claim that it is in the best interest of the population to do so. This isn't going to change the games population very much b/c you still have to put work into developing your character and whiners will always be trying to make things easier.
The whiners wont stop untill everything in the game is made easier, faster NOW NOW NOW to increase population or they will leave and take their entire clan of 100 people with them.
Maybe when you have an advanced character, you would like to be able to eat one or two more fireballs before dying and be able to fight a naked and a geared player at the same time and be able to beat that scrub who put 50x less effort into their character than you but now you will never know what that feels like b/c everytime you come into a 2v1 you will most likely lose b/c you don't have enough HP to live through both their damage.
now b/c of these whiney babies, fighting outnumbered is going to be much more difficult than it was before because every monkey that can pick up a controller is another guy that takes you 30 sec longer to kill, 30 sec you don't have b/c you are already fighting another geared player and that robed player with the rank 40 has so much HP and you can't deal with that scrub quickly anymore b/c he has so much more HP and your HP is reduced so you die.
It just makes Darkfall suck for those players who are actually good at the game and don't like to see the game dumbed down so the masses of lemmings don't get frustrated and quit b/c they suck.
Its so easy for these whiners to say that the good players just cheated and exploited and macroed their way to the top, its so much easier to blame the game for why they suck than to take a look at themselves.
the whiney babies will still blame HP for why they lost even after this change, they will blame magic intensifys, they will say STR is too benificial, they will just move on to the next thing everytime untill the game is ruined for those who enjoyed it for what it originally was.
Darkfall was supposed to be a hardcore niche game, not a game that was continually made easier b/c the whiney babies coudln't handle it. This is why that hardcore comptetive base will start looking for another game, one where they don't allow noobs and weaklings to beat the experts simply b/c its 2v1.
Box version isn't even on the shelves yet so your arguements about population are invalid. Why couldn't you whiney babies just find an easier game instead of ruining ours? Darkfall was supposed to have been too difficult for the masses of weak minded whiners.
Both the grind and difference between a vet player and new player in DF is ridiculous. Any attempts to shift the focus of DF from grinding to PvP is a great step. Good job Tasos and crew! You just made the game a little bit more appealing to many of us who unsubbed rather than perpetually grind out skills.
"We are significantly changing the progression of hitpoints in a diminishing returns fashion. This is done to improve a character’s viability in PvP situations and to make players of all levels more competitive." -Tasos
Once again the hardcore dedicated players get the shaft as their months spent training up their hit points can be made up for in "significantly" reduced time byt he whiners who weren't willing to put forth the effort.
Character progression was part of the compitition in DF and since they just keep making things easier for the whiners, this competitive gamer is going to start looking for another game, one that doesn't cater to whiners who incessently post about how the game needs to be made easier to attract customers.
I thought lessons would have been learned from the last game that was ruined by increasing character progression rate, SWG, but it seems AV is doomed to repeat the same mistake.
more end game content is going to not going keep me playing DF when they contiually give the less intelligent vocal whiners an easy ride so they can "catch up" with what some of us have spent months to achieve.
I'm finally getting near HP cap after over a year of play and now AV is allowing everyone to get there in a significantly reduced amount of time. Doesn't make me very happy, in fact it makes me not give a shit about the game anymore and makes me contemplate getting hacks to make up for all the work that will have been wasted developing my character.
Why would I, as a competitive gamer, continue to play a game that is continually made easier due to the developers catering to those who aren't willing to put forth the same amount of effort as everyone else?
some play DF because they like the idea of character development being part of the compitition, when that is gone, so will those players will start to be.
Calling people whiners and having a hissy fit over a video game= LOL how lame and infantile does it get ? Grow up there's more to life than your epeen.
if the increase on skill gain is so damn awesome why the game population is lower that 9 months ago ?
i really like to get a clear answer about this
Erm, why the game population is lower today then 9 months ago?
Maybe the novelity wear off, maybe the grind killed them, maybe the new players realized they would never compete. Who cares. The fact is we have an all time low on EU1 with only 1980 active clan players. 1980 players is the number we have with a huge grind.
AV will fix a tiny part of the grind. They let new players get a little more health and the grinders nerdrage. The pvpers can only pray AV can stop the decline of players. We have had DF for more than a year, and we know for a fact a huge grind is making the population decline. We have the numbers so no one can deny this fact.
poplulation will increase once a box version is put on the shelves. Allowing noobs to compete with vets aren't really going to bring back as many players as people are pretending, the whiners just want an easy game and will always claim that it is in the best interest of the population to do so. This isn't going to change the games population very much b/c you still have to put work into developing your character and whiners will always be trying to make things easier.
The whiners wont stop untill everything in the game is made easier, faster NOW NOW NOW to increase population or they will leave and take their entire clan of 100 people with them.
Maybe when you have an advanced character, you would like to be able to eat one or two more fireballs before dying and be able to fight a naked and a geared player at the same time and be able to beat that scrub who put 50x less effort into their character than you but now you will never know what that feels like b/c everytime you come into a 2v1 you will most likely lose b/c you don't have enough HP to live through both their damage.
now b/c of these whiney babies, fighting outnumbered is going to be much more difficult than it was before because every monkey that can pick up a controller is another guy that takes you 30 sec longer to kill, 30 sec you don't have b/c you are already fighting another geared player and that robed player with the rank 40 has so much HP and you can't deal with that scrub quickly anymore b/c he has so much more HP and your HP is reduced so you die.
It just makes Darkfall suck for those players who are actually good at the game and don't like to see the game dumbed down so the masses of lemmings don't get frustrated and quit b/c they suck.
Its so easy for these whiners to say that the good players just cheated and exploited and macroed their way to the top, its so much easier to blame the game for why they suck than to take a look at themselves.
the whiney babies will still blame HP for why they lost even after this change, they will blame magic intensifys, they will say STR is too benificial, they will just move on to the next thing everytime untill the game is ruined for those who enjoyed it for what it originally was.
Darkfall was supposed to be a hardcore niche game, not a game that was continually made easier b/c the whiney babies coudln't handle it. This is why that hardcore comptetive base will start looking for another game, one where they don't allow noobs and weaklings to beat the experts simply b/c its 2v1.
Box version isn't even on the shelves yet so your arguements about population are invalid. Why couldn't you whiney babies just find an easier game instead of ruining ours? Darkfall was supposed to have been too difficult for the masses of weak minded whiners.
I'm guessing they realized they cannot feed their families with subs of simply 'l33t h4rdc0r3 gamers' like yourself. Calling people whiney crybabys has to be the funniest thing I've read. I don't think they cried. I think they said 'we won't pay for your game unless you change it.' Money talks, cowboy.
Glad even the 'hardcore' df vets now see it is a stat-based game, and not skill based. You confirmed this with your above post.
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health. Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
game going to die now, character progression is subconciously entertaining. Just remember it was you crybabies who wanted this. Remember it was you who killed DF. I'm not going to play a game where they allow the weaklings to compete with the best, that is WoW.
Good job whiney babies, you've succesfully turned DF into easymode, hope you like all the fickle children you will have gained while losing proven long term players.
the whiners wont stop either, they will just move onto the next thing, maybe make enchanting easier or weapon and armor mastery easier untill every thing is dumbed down.
All the morons who think this is a good thing, just take a look at SWG. You aren't smart.
Dude serilousely weaklings? You are talking about Weaklings on MMo forum
/point
/laugh
My god I have never seen so much misplaced Nerd rage in all my born days
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
So I guess the upcoming PVE servers are really going to piss you off then?
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
So I guess the upcoming PVE servers are really going to piss you off then?
I don't care about them but I do care about whiners crybabies and wowidiots ruining another game. Must be hard getting used to the fact that some games just aren't for everyone but Darkfall WAS for me.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Wait, so "some" vets feel that because they were here first they deserve to be able to stomp people without a challenge? I'm a vet myself and crave more equality in pvp, the more people who stand a chance in beating other people the more we'll see pvp on both servers. I seriously can't believe some people refuse to accept the fact DF is not the player-skill game it was meant to be.... OP you likely cheated in many ways to get your character where it is, you did so because you wanted that huge advantage in pvp and now that they are taking a bit of your "edge" away you feel threatened. Fuck me guys grow up, grow some balls and embrace the idea of better and fair pvp.
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
I would be pissed also if I was stupid enough to invest hundreds of grind hours into a game and smart people can now invest less time. Dog nabbit who knew the developers would get complaints like this, dont most people like the longest grind in history? whats wrong with everybody? darn Dev should listen to me and my 6 hard coooooor friends after all we are always right, right?
I liked the slow progression also, I liked the idea of having to really dedicate myself to a game for a year or 2, to reach the top tier of gameplay.
That aside, if it wasn't for the months of endless afk swimming, and crouch auto-walking into walls that the player base exploited for the first months, there wouldn't be people with the stats that they have in soo little time, compaired to those who came in after those exploits were removed.
I played Darkfall from EU launch, until last week, when I decided I needed a break from the tedium of grinding. In that entire year most of my stats are in the 60-80 range, while those who played alongside me and exploited everytime they went afk or to bed for the night, have the important stats at 100. Then AV decided to take away that game mechanic, basicly rewarding everyone who bogged the server down while afk stat gaining. The new players coming in will take double, if not triple the amount of active playtime, then the 100's-1000's that afk exploited.
I find it hard to believe many Darkfall players are too ignorant to put 2 and 2 together, and figure out why the change is needed. Bottom line, you are most likey a player who did these things, and doesn't want to lose thier ill gained advantage that would take a newer player 2 years to accomplish, in what you took 6 months - 1 year.
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
So I guess the upcoming PVE servers are really going to piss you off then?
I don't care about them but I do care about whiners crybabies and wowidiots ruining another game. Must be hard getting used to the fact that some games just aren't for everyone but Darkfall WAS for me.
I agree. We are the minority so these whiney babies come in and bash us for actually caring that they are ruining our game, turning Darkfall into WoW because that is what is more profitable. It happened to UO and other games, you would think they would learn but no. They have to ruin the only hardcore pvp mmorpg in existence b/c they suck at games.
These idiots who pretend to know us don't know what it is like to be good at a game and see it dumbed down for the masses of whiney babies. There are plenty of us who enjoy Darkfall the way it is and we aren't all 12 y/o living in our mom's basement who PK newbies all day at the starter areas with 450 HP and max everything like you tell yourself.
Stupid whiners will be the death of everything good. You know who you are, find a different game b/c Darkfall is obviously not for you if you constantly complain about how it needs to be changed.
Wait, so "some" vets feel that because they were here first they deserve to be able to stomp people without a challenge? I'm a vet myself and crave more equality in pvp, the more people who stand a chance in beating other people the more we'll see pvp on both servers. I seriously can't believe some people refuse to accept the fact DF is not the player-skill game it was meant to be.... OP you likely cheated in many ways to get your character where it is, you did so because you wanted that huge advantage in pvp and now that they are taking a bit of your "edge" away you feel threatened. Fuck me guys grow up, grow some balls and embrace the idea of better and fair pvp.
Just when I thought DFO was doomed to be full of cowardly vets who don't want the game to grow and prosper this post comes along and proves me wrong.
Glad to see some folks can take a more mature view of this situation and realize that it is neither the salvation or end of DFO as a hardcore PVP game.
In the end, fewer vets will quit over this change vs the newer players who join (or rejoin) but it won't change the game's balance much either way.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wait, so "some" vets feel that because they were here first they deserve to be able to stomp people without a challenge? I'm a vet myself and crave more equality in pvp, the more people who stand a chance in beating other people the more we'll see pvp on both servers. I seriously can't believe some people refuse to accept the fact DF is not the player-skill game it was meant to be.... OP you likely cheated in many ways to get your character where it is, you did so because you wanted that huge advantage in pvp and now that they are taking a bit of your "edge" away you feel threatened. Fuck me guys grow up, grow some balls and embrace the idea of better and fair pvp.
Just when I thought DFO was doomed to be full of cowardly vets who don't want the game to grow and prosper this post comes along and proves me wrong.
Glad to see some folks can take a more mature view of this situation and realize that it is neither the salvation or end of DFO as a hardcore PVP game.
In the end, fewer vets will quit over this change vs the newer players who join (or rejoin) but it won't change the game's balance much either way.
IMO.
Most "Vets" wants more balanced PvP, you can read the replies on ForumFall regarding this HP curve, overall, very positive.
We won't see much game balancing until Prestige Classes are added I think. Mainly to help players focus on a special sets of tasks and gain the benefits from Day 1, rather than having to grind everything to be good. Though we won't see Prestige Classes until Q4 so.....I'm most likely not going to re-sub until Nov/Dec.
its funny, I see all these people like madness and realbigdeal and countless others who don't even play the game, claiming they know what vets want and know what is good for Darkfall.
The people actually playing Darkfall are playing Darkfall and don't have the extra time that those people who don't like Darkfall have to come on the forums and claim that X needs changing for them to play and claim how the game needs to be changed drastically into some game they would like. Tt makes me sick and makes my whole clan sick to see these whiners pretending to represent the comminity as a whole, trying to dumb down a game they don't even play don't understand and claiming that is what everyone wants. Having a box on the shelves will increase the population, making the game any easier will just drive away a lot of people who enjoy the game as it is.
dumbing down the game so two crappy players can easily beat one good player is not something good players are going to want to stick around for once a more highly competitive game comes out.
you may think you know it all but some people have seen this type of thing happen before, UO and SWG are prime examples.
Can't we just have one hard, pvp centric mmo without the whiney babies ruining it? The game doesn't even have a box on the shelves and we have all these doomsayers like we've always had saying its going to die. population will increase when a box version is on the shelves, your argument is invalid
its funny, I see all these people like madness and realbigdeal and countless others who don't even play the game, claiming they know what vets want and know what is good for Darkfall.
The people actually playing Darkfall are playing Darkfall and don't have the extra time that those people who don't like Darkfall have to come on the forums and claim that X needs changing for them to play and claim how the game needs to be changed drastically into some game they would like. Tt makes me sick and makes my whole clan sick to see these whiners pretending to represent the comminity as a whole, trying to dumb down a game they don't even play don't understand and claiming that is what everyone wants. Having a box on the shelves will increase the population, making the game any easier will just drive away a lot of people who enjoy the game as it is.
dumbing down the game so two crappy players can easily beat one good player is not something good players are going to want to stick around for once a more highly competitive game comes out.
you may think you know it all but some people have seen this type of thing happen before, UO and SWG are prime examples.
Can't we just have one hard, pvp centric mmo without the whiney babies ruining it? The game doesn't even have a box on the shelves and we have all these doomsayers like we've always had saying its going to die. population will increase when a box version is on the shelves, your argument is invalid
Have you heard any plans of them releasing a box in the U.S.? I haven't. It's been a year and I highly doubt it's going to happen. It's hard enough selling a box for a new game with tons of hype for it- imagine selling a box for a year old game with at least 3 years of bad publicity and negative hype.
But really you should explain why changing the rate at which someone gets decent HP to the point where they might be able to actually attack you is dumbing down the game. It seems to me that making the game more about skill and less about afk swimming is the opposite of dumbing it down.
its funny, I see all these people like madness and realbigdeal and countless others who don't even play the game, claiming they know what vets want and know what is good for Darkfall.
The people actually playing Darkfall are playing Darkfall and don't have the extra time that those people who don't like Darkfall have to come on the forums and claim that X needs changing for them to play and claim how the game needs to be changed drastically into some game they would like. Tt makes me sick and makes my whole clan sick to see these whiners pretending to represent the comminity as a whole, trying to dumb down a game they don't even play don't understand and claiming that is what everyone wants. Having a box on the shelves will increase the population, making the game any easier will just drive away a lot of people who enjoy the game as it is.
dumbing down the game so two crappy players can easily beat one good player is not something good players are going to want to stick around for once a more highly competitive game comes out.
you may think you know it all but some people have seen this type of thing happen before, UO and SWG are prime examples.
Can't we just have one hard, pvp centric mmo without the whiney babies ruining it? The game doesn't even have a box on the shelves and we have all these doomsayers like we've always had saying its going to die. population will increase when a box version is on the shelves, your argument is invalid
Have you heard any plans of them releasing a box in the U.S.? I haven't. It's been a year and I highly doubt it's going to happen. It's hard enough selling a box for a new game with tons of hype for it- imagine selling a box for a year old game with at least 3 years of bad publicity and negative hype.
But really you should explain why changing the rate at which someone gets decent HP to the point where they might be able to actually attack you is dumbing down the game. It seems to me that making the game more about skill and less about afk swimming is the opposite of dumbing it down.
I can answer that. It's because he (and people with his attitude) don't want skill based PvP. They want to gank, pure and simple. They rely upon the 'system' to make them uber because they lack the skill necessary to excel in any other way. Now that the playing field might actually become a bit more even earlier on, he's shitting a brick.
Trashburnin', for someone who likes to call people whiny crybabies, you sure are whining and moaning and crying like an 8 year old girl with a skinned knee. In fact, you're the only whiny baby in this entire thread. Grow the fuck up, please.
its funny, I see all these people like madness and realbigdeal and countless others who don't even play the game, claiming they know what vets want and know what is good for Darkfall.
The people actually playing Darkfall are playing Darkfall and don't have the extra time that those people who don't like Darkfall have to come on the forums and claim that X needs changing for them to play and claim how the game needs to be changed drastically into some game they would like. Tt makes me sick and makes my whole clan sick to see these whiners pretending to represent the comminity as a whole, trying to dumb down a game they don't even play don't understand and claiming that is what everyone wants. Having a box on the shelves will increase the population, making the game any easier will just drive away a lot of people who enjoy the game as it is.
dumbing down the game so two crappy players can easily beat one good player is not something good players are going to want to stick around for once a more highly competitive game comes out.
you may think you know it all but some people have seen this type of thing happen before, UO and SWG are prime examples.
Can't we just have one hard, pvp centric mmo without the whiney babies ruining it? The game doesn't even have a box on the shelves and we have all these doomsayers like we've always had saying its going to die. population will increase when a box version is on the shelves, your argument is invalid
Perhaps before you start bullshitting here and there, you should know that I still play DarkFall every now and then and have a running subscription (which ends next month by the way). So while I'm definitively not as active as I used to be (I might log on once or twice a week), I'm still very active on the forum, which is where all the current discussions are being made regarding future content.
By the way, I've seen some 1vs5 battles where the solo player won. They were all "above average" so at that point HP doesn't matter that much (Once you hit 300, you're good to go). This HP modification won't mean much, other than the fact that players will be able to reach the 300 HP faster than they would've in the past. That's all there is to it. Players will still be able to win 1vs5 matches so it doesn't matter.
Perhaps you should stop whining a little, which is ironic since you claim other players are the ones whining.....pretty funny if you ask me
I find this funny since the majority of the "veteran" players macro'd their way through a large percentage of their skills before the Dev's put a stop to that. EVERY person I know that started the game in NA macro'd...everyone. The skill leveling in DF and the time involved is nothing short of retardely lengthly and heaven forbid they adjust it so people might actually want to try the game rather then for them to realize how long it would take to get anywhere and choose not to play at all. I mean DF doesnt have that much going for it like its outdated graphics(since it was in development over 8 years) and other issues and adding grind to it is not a good business strat
After pages of the same (dumbed down, ad hominem, straw man, slippery slope) arguments being presented as to how small changes to provide a smoother increase by use of diminishing returns will ruin the game and furthermore presage the Apocalypse--
I find myself still disagreeing with the original poster, but agreeing with the substance of the title of his post: The Whiners (and they are the ones complaining about the change) are winning, and the long-term evolution of the game past its protracted 'rough' stages is certain to be killed off, just as surely as the group as a whole cannot manage to have a mature and useful discussion that reaches all participants.
Unless of course, when and if they leave, the lights don't go out, after all.
This should be a lesson to all game companies in the reaction to expect if you keep trying to improve a game past the point that certain kinds of folks have joined it. They will recognise no such thing.
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
The skill leveling in DF and the time involved is nothing short of retardely lengthly and heaven forbid they adjust it so people might actually want to try the game rather then for them to realize how long it would take to get anywhere and choose not to play at all.
I support dimnishing vitality returns, but you must understand, that grind is relative.
AV has policy of not publishing information about game mechanics, and letting players discover it themselves, so some people read Tasos statement about "grind free game" as bad joke ...
Some people grinded Tailoring for 5 hours straight - and I've leveled it up from 73.0 to 100.0 in about 5 mins.
Some players assume that they need to kill goblins for days to get 75 in greatswords. At the same time vets switch from polearm to greataxe, and level it up 1.0 to 75.0 in about 4 hours.
There are many "tricks", fully legit, which allow for getting desired skill/stat up, or skip boring parts of the game. How to get 10 steedgrass per hour ? How to raise Intelligence by 1 point in 2 hours ? How to earn 15k gold per hour ?
So some vets ask: "Why are you complaining, DF is grind-free game, stop being so lazy, and learn how to play". And some new players see low stat gains from doing X, and assume that they should do X for more hours to compensate for low gains.
Comments
Give them HP I say . ... if its going to raise the population and make it easier for new people I am totally for it.
They have done things to 'help raise skills faster' like scrolls and books which turned out to be pretty much useless. I wouldn't be surprised at all if its just a different formula to raise HP and potions that raise one Stat for only a couple dozen seconds . ..
There is still going to be a grind and I assure you that you have not wasted any time with getting what you have already earned.
Just think of how cool this game will be when the pop rises!
I predict another boom soon for DF2010 and another one after more people have tried MO.
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I felt I just had to say something about how an iron butt takes time and dedication to develop-- but then I remembered that some people in Darkfall, many of them in many ways, got to be what is being inferred to be 'strong', here, not by sitting and concentrating on the game but by setting up macros and being afk.
Thus, to judge high stats as being invariably the product of dedication or even savvy is a mistake. Sometimes they are. But after a while, it's just SOP. And, so often, what seems like dedication is an ability to afford to spend the time quite divorced from any real effort in finding the time. That somewhat devalues the idea that people are being deprived of earned rewards, even if things were being made much easier and that is not proven.
Really, the most dangerous opponents for anyone (in Darkfall) were those people who had skill that wasn't reflected in numbers after day one, or week one, or the first month or six months; practice improved nearly everyone in the mechanical sense, but what of those who got all their skill increases while ATK and in PvP? (Yes, boys and girls, there were some. They were dangerous-- from the early, early days-- to people with more accumulated skill points gotten from mere macroing.) They, too, may have made quite an investment in time, but not just in time. They were not merely diligent.
It is a good idea (and I say this with no intention of going back to Darkfall myself) to make things easier (as in, a bit less ridiculously tedious-- only a bit) for these kinds of folks as well as the rest, should Darkfall be able to attract and retain any new ones at this late stage.
And, in conclusion, I do not believe after one page of reading that the OP knows what diminishing returns are, and to discuss this issue intelligently that seems necessary to me.
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
poplulation will increase once a box version is put on the shelves. Allowing noobs to compete with vets aren't really going to bring back as many players as people are pretending, the whiners just want an easy game and will always claim that it is in the best interest of the population to do so. This isn't going to change the games population very much b/c you still have to put work into developing your character and whiners will always be trying to make things easier.
The whiners wont stop untill everything in the game is made easier, faster NOW NOW NOW to increase population or they will leave and take their entire clan of 100 people with them.
Maybe when you have an advanced character, you would like to be able to eat one or two more fireballs before dying and be able to fight a naked and a geared player at the same time and be able to beat that scrub who put 50x less effort into their character than you but now you will never know what that feels like b/c everytime you come into a 2v1 you will most likely lose b/c you don't have enough HP to live through both their damage.
now b/c of these whiney babies, fighting outnumbered is going to be much more difficult than it was before because every monkey that can pick up a controller is another guy that takes you 30 sec longer to kill, 30 sec you don't have b/c you are already fighting another geared player and that robed player with the rank 40 has so much HP and you can't deal with that scrub quickly anymore b/c he has so much more HP and your HP is reduced so you die.
It just makes Darkfall suck for those players who are actually good at the game and don't like to see the game dumbed down so the masses of lemmings don't get frustrated and quit b/c they suck.
Its so easy for these whiners to say that the good players just cheated and exploited and macroed their way to the top, its so much easier to blame the game for why they suck than to take a look at themselves.
the whiney babies will still blame HP for why they lost even after this change, they will blame magic intensifys, they will say STR is too benificial, they will just move on to the next thing everytime untill the game is ruined for those who enjoyed it for what it originally was.
Darkfall was supposed to be a hardcore niche game, not a game that was continually made easier b/c the whiney babies coudln't handle it. This is why that hardcore comptetive base will start looking for another game, one where they don't allow noobs and weaklings to beat the experts simply b/c its 2v1.
Box version isn't even on the shelves yet so your arguements about population are invalid. Why couldn't you whiney babies just find an easier game instead of ruining ours? Darkfall was supposed to have been too difficult for the masses of weak minded whiners.
Both the grind and difference between a vet player and new player in DF is ridiculous. Any attempts to shift the focus of DF from grinding to PvP is a great step. Good job Tasos and crew! You just made the game a little bit more appealing to many of us who unsubbed rather than perpetually grind out skills.
Calling people whiners and having a hissy fit over a video game= LOL how lame and infantile does it get ? Grow up there's more to life than your epeen.
I'm guessing they realized they cannot feed their families with subs of simply 'l33t h4rdc0r3 gamers' like yourself. Calling people whiney crybabys has to be the funniest thing I've read. I don't think they cried. I think they said 'we won't pay for your game unless you change it.' Money talks, cowboy.
Glad even the 'hardcore' df vets now see it is a stat-based game, and not skill based. You confirmed this with your above post.
OP, you are so immature, grow up please and stop taking too seriously videogames, will be bad for your health.
Get a life and if you don't like the change leave the game. For 1 vets leave 10 newbs come in.
Go play something elese we don't WANT you whiners in our game you guys have no place here!
If AV is introducing this BS I gonna quit this game wasn't made for you whiny carebears. This is our game and we won't let win it. Time to show aventurine we won't accept dumb down chances if they introduce it, well mass exodusl. Game is fine as it is enjoy it or get the fuck outthere.
We simple can't accept carebears ruining this game too.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Dude serilousely weaklings? You are talking about Weaklings on MMo forum
/point
/laugh
My god I have never seen so much misplaced Nerd rage in all my born days
So I guess the upcoming PVE servers are really going to piss you off then?
I don't care about them but I do care about whiners crybabies and wowidiots ruining another game. Must be hard getting used to the fact that some games just aren't for everyone but Darkfall WAS for me.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Wait, so "some" vets feel that because they were here first they deserve to be able to stomp people without a challenge? I'm a vet myself and crave more equality in pvp, the more people who stand a chance in beating other people the more we'll see pvp on both servers. I seriously can't believe some people refuse to accept the fact DF is not the player-skill game it was meant to be.... OP you likely cheated in many ways to get your character where it is, you did so because you wanted that huge advantage in pvp and now that they are taking a bit of your "edge" away you feel threatened. Fuck me guys grow up, grow some balls and embrace the idea of better and fair pvp.
Full Sail University - Game Design
I would be pissed also if I was stupid enough to invest hundreds of grind hours into a game and smart people can now invest less time. Dog nabbit who knew the developers would get complaints like this, dont most people like the longest grind in history? whats wrong with everybody? darn Dev should listen to me and my 6 hard coooooor friends after all we are always right, right?
I liked the slow progression also, I liked the idea of having to really dedicate myself to a game for a year or 2, to reach the top tier of gameplay.
That aside, if it wasn't for the months of endless afk swimming, and crouch auto-walking into walls that the player base exploited for the first months, there wouldn't be people with the stats that they have in soo little time, compaired to those who came in after those exploits were removed.
I played Darkfall from EU launch, until last week, when I decided I needed a break from the tedium of grinding. In that entire year most of my stats are in the 60-80 range, while those who played alongside me and exploited everytime they went afk or to bed for the night, have the important stats at 100. Then AV decided to take away that game mechanic, basicly rewarding everyone who bogged the server down while afk stat gaining. The new players coming in will take double, if not triple the amount of active playtime, then the 100's-1000's that afk exploited.
I find it hard to believe many Darkfall players are too ignorant to put 2 and 2 together, and figure out why the change is needed. Bottom line, you are most likey a player who did these things, and doesn't want to lose thier ill gained advantage that would take a newer player 2 years to accomplish, in what you took 6 months - 1 year.
Exploiter Tears are the sweetest.
I agree. We are the minority so these whiney babies come in and bash us for actually caring that they are ruining our game, turning Darkfall into WoW because that is what is more profitable. It happened to UO and other games, you would think they would learn but no. They have to ruin the only hardcore pvp mmorpg in existence b/c they suck at games.
These idiots who pretend to know us don't know what it is like to be good at a game and see it dumbed down for the masses of whiney babies. There are plenty of us who enjoy Darkfall the way it is and we aren't all 12 y/o living in our mom's basement who PK newbies all day at the starter areas with 450 HP and max everything like you tell yourself.
Stupid whiners will be the death of everything good. You know who you are, find a different game b/c Darkfall is obviously not for you if you constantly complain about how it needs to be changed.
Just when I thought DFO was doomed to be full of cowardly vets who don't want the game to grow and prosper this post comes along and proves me wrong.
Glad to see some folks can take a more mature view of this situation and realize that it is neither the salvation or end of DFO as a hardcore PVP game.
In the end, fewer vets will quit over this change vs the newer players who join (or rejoin) but it won't change the game's balance much either way.
IMO.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most "Vets" wants more balanced PvP, you can read the replies on ForumFall regarding this HP curve, overall, very positive.
We won't see much game balancing until Prestige Classes are added I think. Mainly to help players focus on a special sets of tasks and gain the benefits from Day 1, rather than having to grind everything to be good. Though we won't see Prestige Classes until Q4 so.....I'm most likely not going to re-sub until Nov/Dec.
its funny, I see all these people like madness and realbigdeal and countless others who don't even play the game, claiming they know what vets want and know what is good for Darkfall.
The people actually playing Darkfall are playing Darkfall and don't have the extra time that those people who don't like Darkfall have to come on the forums and claim that X needs changing for them to play and claim how the game needs to be changed drastically into some game they would like. Tt makes me sick and makes my whole clan sick to see these whiners pretending to represent the comminity as a whole, trying to dumb down a game they don't even play don't understand and claiming that is what everyone wants. Having a box on the shelves will increase the population, making the game any easier will just drive away a lot of people who enjoy the game as it is.
dumbing down the game so two crappy players can easily beat one good player is not something good players are going to want to stick around for once a more highly competitive game comes out.
you may think you know it all but some people have seen this type of thing happen before, UO and SWG are prime examples.
Can't we just have one hard, pvp centric mmo without the whiney babies ruining it? The game doesn't even have a box on the shelves and we have all these doomsayers like we've always had saying its going to die. population will increase when a box version is on the shelves, your argument is invalid
Have you heard any plans of them releasing a box in the U.S.? I haven't. It's been a year and I highly doubt it's going to happen. It's hard enough selling a box for a new game with tons of hype for it- imagine selling a box for a year old game with at least 3 years of bad publicity and negative hype.
But really you should explain why changing the rate at which someone gets decent HP to the point where they might be able to actually attack you is dumbing down the game. It seems to me that making the game more about skill and less about afk swimming is the opposite of dumbing it down.
I can answer that. It's because he (and people with his attitude) don't want skill based PvP. They want to gank, pure and simple. They rely upon the 'system' to make them uber because they lack the skill necessary to excel in any other way. Now that the playing field might actually become a bit more even earlier on, he's shitting a brick.
Trashburnin', for someone who likes to call people whiny crybabies, you sure are whining and moaning and crying like an 8 year old girl with a skinned knee. In fact, you're the only whiny baby in this entire thread. Grow the fuck up, please.
Perhaps before you start bullshitting here and there, you should know that I still play DarkFall every now and then and have a running subscription (which ends next month by the way). So while I'm definitively not as active as I used to be (I might log on once or twice a week), I'm still very active on the forum, which is where all the current discussions are being made regarding future content.
By the way, I've seen some 1vs5 battles where the solo player won. They were all "above average" so at that point HP doesn't matter that much (Once you hit 300, you're good to go). This HP modification won't mean much, other than the fact that players will be able to reach the 300 HP faster than they would've in the past. That's all there is to it. Players will still be able to win 1vs5 matches so it doesn't matter.
Perhaps you should stop whining a little, which is ironic since you claim other players are the ones whining.....pretty funny if you ask me
I find this funny since the majority of the "veteran" players macro'd their way through a large percentage of their skills before the Dev's put a stop to that. EVERY person I know that started the game in NA macro'd...everyone. The skill leveling in DF and the time involved is nothing short of retardely lengthly and heaven forbid they adjust it so people might actually want to try the game rather then for them to realize how long it would take to get anywhere and choose not to play at all. I mean DF doesnt have that much going for it like its outdated graphics(since it was in development over 8 years) and other issues and adding grind to it is not a good business strat
After pages of the same (dumbed down, ad hominem, straw man, slippery slope) arguments being presented as to how small changes to provide a smoother increase by use of diminishing returns will ruin the game and furthermore presage the Apocalypse--
I find myself still disagreeing with the original poster, but agreeing with the substance of the title of his post: The Whiners (and they are the ones complaining about the change) are winning, and the long-term evolution of the game past its protracted 'rough' stages is certain to be killed off, just as surely as the group as a whole cannot manage to have a mature and useful discussion that reaches all participants.
Unless of course, when and if they leave, the lights don't go out, after all.
This should be a lesson to all game companies in the reaction to expect if you keep trying to improve a game past the point that certain kinds of folks have joined it. They will recognise no such thing.
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
I find the point of this thread humerous.
The original stated goal was that gear and stats would be advantages, but not the deciding factor of PVP combat.
So, why is the OP crying when something is changed in order to bring that goal back into focus?
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
I support dimnishing vitality returns, but you must understand, that grind is relative.
AV has policy of not publishing information about game mechanics, and letting players discover it themselves, so some people read Tasos statement about "grind free game" as bad joke ...
Some people grinded Tailoring for 5 hours straight - and I've leveled it up from 73.0 to 100.0 in about 5 mins.
Some players assume that they need to kill goblins for days to get 75 in greatswords. At the same time vets switch from polearm to greataxe, and level it up 1.0 to 75.0 in about 4 hours.
There are many "tricks", fully legit, which allow for getting desired skill/stat up, or skip boring parts of the game. How to get 10 steedgrass per hour ? How to raise Intelligence by 1 point in 2 hours ? How to earn 15k gold per hour ?
So some vets ask: "Why are you complaining, DF is grind-free game, stop being so lazy, and learn how to play". And some new players see low stat gains from doing X, and assume that they should do X for more hours to compensate for low gains.