You call yourself a competitive gamer and then you whine about the fact that newer players will be able to compete with you. Do you truly not see the irony in that?
Ka-POW!
Here we are. Art imitating life. People less likely to succed and less likely to put forth effort towards accomplishments have demonstrated time and time again in society that they are entitled to what others have accomplished, but without similar effort, yet an expectation.
Where once DF may have been a competitive outlet where players earn their competitive edge through game-play resources, time and effort, leading to progressively more growth and edge, are now observing welfare gaming.
There are few people less likely to succeed at life, than those who spend 16 hours a day grinding a video game to pwn noobs.
That's not art imitating life. That's non-life(16 hours a day playing a game) playing virtual life("building up swimming skill").
No one said that one had to interact with a game for extended periods of time. Fail at deflection.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
qft, was damn hard to macro all that shit, and that exploiting at release? man that reaally took some effort
how dare they ruin your superiority, don't they understand that you need it to win?
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
this is were you realise that you do exactly the same here
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
need more posts from these outsiders who don't know WTH they are talking about.
People dont have to play the game to know that you watn ezmode kills.
And some of us that do have already asked for his gear as he departs...
not quitting, just keeping my eyes out for a game I would enjoy more. I don't enjoy games where they change the game to allow the bad players beat the best simply because there was more than one of them.
You wont find an other one with full loot. Mortal online have no grind at all. Other upcoming mmorpg's with full loot wont have grind. The only game with full loot that have grind is Eve online, but the question is, do you like playing in space?
Like playing in space? Newsflash, dude; EVE is one of the most successful mmo's, growing organically over 7 years compared to most others, AoC, PotBS, LotRO, WAR, EQ, and the list goes on. Since EVE has trounced most other established stuidos in the market in terms of subscriptions and sustained growth over-time, I'd bet it would just be more successful if I didnt have to only play as a ship.
And to suggest the alarmist mention of this word grind, is so overused by those that want entitlements, its not amusing any more. Grind is nothing more than progression through use of game resources, time, effort, and utilization of coded tools towards earned character progression. Remove that, and much of the sense of accomplishment is certanly eroded.
MO is not only an organic free-form, full loot sandboxy title with a much richercontent than DF, its game-play assets are more complex, with deeper character and broader game-play development available than DF.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
qft, was damn hard to macro all that shit, and that exploiting at release? man that reaally took some effort
how dare they ruin your superiority, don't they understand that you need it to win?
You have to use a false premise that no game other than DF has exploiters, and DF has a higher incidence of it. Fail.
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
this is were you realise that you do exactly the same here
Same as what? Cry for more entitlements and hand-outs?
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
There are few people less likely to succeed at life, than those who spend 16 hours a day grinding a video game to pwn noobs.
That's not art imitating life. That's non-life(16 hours a day playing a game) playing virtual life("building up swimming skill").
No one said that one had to interact with a game for extended periods of time. Fail at deflection.
No deflection. If spending ridiculous amounts of time on a game isn't hardcore, then there's no such thing. Read the OP again. It's no secret that DFO required insane amounts of grinding. Grinding takes time. Unless you're assuming that the OP was cheating in which case the "I deserve to pwn everybody" argument fails by default.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
Can't say I've tried the new deal, but I still feel pretty safe in saying that instant gratification is likely not the word to describe it. Instant gratification is shooting into the air and getting XP for it.
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
Don't let your pants set your straw man on fire. Nobody is saying any such thing. They who play longest and have superior skills should have an advantage. But if, as a noob, you have 2 choices, which are, be bitches for the players that started at launch, or grind for months and months to STILL be their bitches, you're gonna pick the 3rd option: find another game.
Using the old sports analogy, if playing for the NFL didn't pay anything, how long would you stay playing with the Detroit Lions?
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
I think AV has nothing left to lose. If they don't act, DFO's King of the Hill will be playing alone.
From what I can see the patch didn't level the field that much at atm.
The HP change just means it is going to take a vet one more hit to kill you and two more for you to kill him.
The ore might be a bigger change but it will take some time to see the effect of this. But as it stands now unless you have really high crafting and a lot of time to mine rare ore you will actually be probably worse off with the patch.
In the long run lets say you are able to craft some plate with some R50 or 60's if a vet is running around in infernal and R80's the ground still won't be very even. Let alone you will need to grind you melee mastery to 75+ and Ignore pain, defense, etc.
If everyone has even armor and weapons with the patch things would be more even but I think it is too early to tell.
From what I am hearing you get about one rare ore roughly every other node. Let say a node = 5 minutes that means it will take you roughly 10 minutes to get the material to craft one weapon (if you can make R50's+). Add in some ganking loss plus crafting time and travel and you still have a fair amount of time to get one weapon. Attaining gear will still be a time sink.
welfare gaming....dude, do you even read yourself sometimes?
i really have nothing else to say to your... comments.
Elitist gamers, unfortunately, have no real grip on reality.
They fail to recognize that a game is a business and it needs to provide incentive for a new player to not quit before the 1st month is up because elitist d-bags wipe the floor with them.
It seems like there is a fundamental difference of opinion here regarding the definition of the term 'competitive'. For many of us, a game can be considered more competitive if there are lots of players on semi-equal footing in terms of character ability. This leads to PvP encounters which are close and difficult to win. It makes individual skill be the deciding factor rather than artificial handicaps based on nothing other than time played.
Most of us are not arguing that there should be no character development required in this game. Please don't oversimplify the argument. Obviously character development is essential to all MMORPGs. What we are arguing is that it should not take nearly as long to reach the plateau in character ability. There are many other PvP games which have had meaningful character progression and have not required such a massive time investment. Characters reach the plateau in just a couple of months and then its all based on skill and experience after that point. Forces are relatively even and battles are closer as a result. It becomes difficult to win unless you are truly good at the game. This is what competitive gaming means to me... and it does not preclude sandbox elements such as empire building. If anything, it enhances them by allowing more people to participate.
I truly don't understand those of you who consider massive grinding to be competitive. There is absolutely no skill involved in grinding a character for months on end. Even less skill is involved in macroing or leaving a character unattended while swimming, etc. These things rely only on massive amounts of patience, not skill. They ensure that only those players who devote their time fully to a video game can succeed because they are the only ones who possibly have enough time to do so. You are no better than anyone else as a result of these things... you simply have an artificial advantage over others because you apparently have less real life responsibilities. This is simply not fair and it is the antithesis of competitive gaming in my opinion. It benefits no one because those who succeed at the game must sacrifice far too much in their real lives and those who don't have time can never experience the true focus of the game. I know there are many who agree with me... and it would seem AV is starting to as well.
It seems like there is a fundamental difference of opinion here regarding the definition of the term 'competitive'. For many of us, a game can be considered more competitive if there are lots of players on semi-equal footing in terms of character ability. This leads to PvP encounters which are close and difficult to win. It makes individual skill be the deciding factor rather than artificial handicaps based on nothing other than time played.
Most of us are not arguing that there should be no character development required in this game. Please don't oversimplify the argument. Obviously character development is essential to all MMORPGs. What we are arguing is that it should not take nearly as long to reach the plateau in character ability. There are many other PvP games which have had meaningful character progression and have not required such a massive time investment. Characters reach the plateau in just a couple of months and then its all based on skill and experience after that point. Forces are relatively even and battles are closer as a result. It becomes difficult to win unless you are truly good at the game. This is what competitive gaming means to me... and it does not preclude sandbox elements such as empire building. If anything, it enhances them by allowing more people to participate.
I truly don't understand those of you who consider massive grinding to be competitive. There is absolutely no skill involved in grinding a character for months on end. Even less skill is involved in macroing or leaving a character unattended while swimming, etc. These things rely only on massive amounts of patience, not skill. They ensure that only those players who devote their time fully to a video game can succeed because they are the only ones who possibly have enough time to do so. You are no better than anyone else as a result of these things... you simply have an artificial advantage over others because you apparently have less real life responsibilities. This is simply not fair and it is the antithesis of competitive gaming in my opinion. It benefits no one because those who succeed at the game must sacrifice far too much in their real lives and those who don't have time can never experience the true focus of the game. I know there are many who agree with me... and it would seem AV is starting to as well.
Just giving credit where it's due very well thought out and articulated post and quite reasonable if someone was asking me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
qft, was damn hard to macro all that shit, and that exploiting at release? man that reaally took some effort
how dare they ruin your superiority, don't they understand that you need it to win?
You have to use a false premise that no game other than DF has exploiters, and DF has a higher incidence of it. Fail.
Not talking about now, im talking about in which way many got their skills in the past, and i think it's not wrong to say that at the beginning df population used makroing and exploits way heavier than in most other mmos, heck half a year back you could walk into one of the main clan alliance towns and you would see tons of people makro, which game had this? I think it's pretty save to say that most vets got their good stats from such stuff and not from working hard themselves. I knew several players who played since the release normaly and i saw their stats they weren't half as godly. Also clinging to stat superiority is major fail, if you are good you don't care about such stuff.
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
this is were you realise that you do exactly the same here
Same as what? Cry for more entitlements and hand-outs?
Nah, you complain about game changes not suiting your style just as your blamed group complains about game elments not suiting their style, not much difference, just standing on the other side of the fence imo.
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
It seems like there is a fundamental difference of opinion here regarding the definition of the term 'competitive'. For many of us, a game can be considered more competitive if there are lots of players on semi-equal footing in terms of character ability. This leads to PvP encounters which are close and difficult to win. It makes individual skill be the deciding factor rather than artificial handicaps based on nothing other than time played.
Most of us are not arguing that there should be no character development required in this game. Please don't oversimplify the argument. Obviously character development is essential to all MMORPGs. What we are arguing is that it should not take nearly as long to reach the plateau in character ability. There are many other PvP games which have had meaningful character progression and have not required such a massive time investment. Characters reach the plateau in just a couple of months and then its all based on skill and experience after that point. Forces are relatively even and battles are closer as a result. It becomes difficult to win unless you are truly good at the game. This is what competitive gaming means to me... and it does not preclude sandbox elements such as empire building. If anything, it enhances them by allowing more people to participate.
I truly don't understand those of you who consider massive grinding to be competitive. There is absolutely no skill involved in grinding a character for months on end. Even less skill is involved in macroing or leaving a character unattended while swimming, etc. These things rely only on massive amounts of patience, not skill. They ensure that only those players who devote their time fully to a video game can succeed because they are the only ones who possibly have enough time to do so. You are no better than anyone else as a result of these things... you simply have an artificial advantage over others because you apparently have less real life responsibilities. This is simply not fair and it is the antithesis of competitive gaming in my opinion. It benefits no one because those who succeed at the game must sacrifice far too much in their real lives and those who don't have time can never experience the true focus of the game. I know there are many who agree with me... and it would seem AV is starting to as well.
Essentially you are describing what two games did with different approaches, both considered successes.
Guildwars provided you with the option and ability to have zero grind and jump into equal character power in PvP settings. No matter how long you played you were equal to your opponents.
EVE provided a few months wait to be highly competative and viable. A 6 month old toon could compete toe-to-toe with a 6 year old toon and have a shot at winning. At 2 months the toon is PvP viable enough to not be an ignorable target.
It seems like there is a fundamental difference of opinion here regarding the definition of the term 'competitive'. For many of us, a game can be considered more competitive if there are lots of players on semi-equal footing in terms of character ability. This leads to PvP encounters which are close and difficult to win. It makes individual skill be the deciding factor rather than artificial handicaps based on nothing other than time played.
Most of us are not arguing that there should be no character development required in this game. Please don't oversimplify the argument. Obviously character development is essential to all MMORPGs. What we are arguing is that it should not take nearly as long to reach the plateau in character ability. There are many other PvP games which have had meaningful character progression and have not required such a massive time investment. Characters reach the plateau in just a couple of months and then its all based on skill and experience after that point. Forces are relatively even and battles are closer as a result. It becomes difficult to win unless you are truly good at the game. This is what competitive gaming means to me... and it does not preclude sandbox elements such as empire building. If anything, it enhances them by allowing more people to participate.
I truly don't understand those of you who consider massive grinding to be competitive. There is absolutely no skill involved in grinding a character for months on end. Even less skill is involved in macroing or leaving a character unattended while swimming, etc. These things rely only on massive amounts of patience, not skill. They ensure that only those players who devote their time fully to a video game can succeed because they are the only ones who possibly have enough time to do so. You are no better than anyone else as a result of these things... you simply have an artificial advantage over others because you apparently have less real life responsibilities. This is simply not fair and it is the antithesis of competitive gaming in my opinion. It benefits no one because those who succeed at the game must sacrifice far too much in their real lives and those who don't have time can never experience the true focus of the game. I know there are many who agree with me... and it would seem AV is starting to as well.
After two months of playing Darkfall, I was easily at a competitive level with respect to PVP. I never played for eight hour + gaming binges either. Just 1-3 hours a day even taking a day or two off in any given week.
I would have quit the game if I had been pretty much done developing my character at that point. There are a plethora of other FPS games I play that grant me the luxury of being on a more even playing field early on. MMORPGs(to me) are so much more.
Now I'm currently on a break from Darkfall so I can't really comment on the new patch, but something tells me if you wanted to plateau in this game in just a couple of months you really weren't enjoying the PVE. I enjoyed skilling up on the various mobs in this game. I liked the AI.
But yes, in a couple of months it was quite easy to become competitive in PVP before the patch. Assuming you enjoyed the process that is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
After two months of playing Darkfall, I was easily at a competitive level with respect to PVP. I never played for eight hour + gaming binges either. Just 1-3 hours a day even taking a day or two off in any given week.
I would have quit the game if I had been pretty much done developing my character at that point. There are a plethora of other FPS games I play that grant me the luxury of being on a more even playing field early on. MMORPGs(to me) are so much more.
Now I'm currently on a break from Darkfall so I can't really comment on the new patch, but something tells me if you wanted to plateau in this game in just a couple of months you really weren't enjoying the PVE. I enjoyed skilling up on the various mobs in this game. I liked the AI.
But yes, in a couple of months it was quite easy to become competitive in PVP before the patch. Assuming you enjoyed the process that is.
I really enjoyed the PVE in the game at first. It was so much more reactive and engaging than what I was used to. I started to get bored after playing hard for about 3 months though. All of the mob spawns are the same and very little thought was put into the dungeons. I just felt like I was repeating the same actions over and over and over again and it started to annoy me. And when I realized I still had months to go before I could be really useful in PvP, I stopped playing.
I still don't know how people manage to get competitive with vets after 2 months of playing casually. I played an average of 4-5 hours a night for about 3 months and I was still far behind older players in stats. I had decently high melee weapon skills and archery as well as some magic trained up, but I was still nowhere near the veteran characters with multiple AOE nukes and maxxed out masteries.
I really enjoyed the PVE in the game at first. It was so much more reactive and engaging than what I was used to. I started to get bored after playing hard for about 3 months though. All of the mob spawns are the same and very little thought was put into the dungeons. I just felt like I was repeating the same actions over and over and over again and it started to annoy me. And when I realized I still had months to go before I could be really useful in PvP, I stopped playing.
I still don't know how people manage to get competitive with vets after 2 months of playing casually. I played an average of 4-5 hours a night for about 3 months and I was still far behind older players in stats. I had decently high melee weapon skills and archery as well as some magic trained up, but I was still nowhere near the veteran characters with multiple AOE nukes and maxxed out masteries.
but again, consider other the PvE in other games. are you suggesting that although you liked the PvE in this game over time you became more bored with it then you would have in the same amount of time for another MMO? see my point?
I am not suggesting that the PvE is as good or as intresting as it can be I am saying that COMPARED TO OTHER MMO's the PvE both in the short run and in the long run. You dissagree so I must ask, which MMO did you feel had a PvE system that was more fun (and hopefully your answer will not be more fun = easier to progress)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I really enjoyed the PVE in the game at first. It was so much more reactive and engaging than what I was used to. I started to get bored after playing hard for about 3 months though. All of the mob spawns are the same and very little thought was put into the dungeons. I just felt like I was repeating the same actions over and over and over again and it started to annoy me. And when I realized I still had months to go before I could be really useful in PvP, I stopped playing.
I still don't know how people manage to get competitive with vets after 2 months of playing casually. I played an average of 4-5 hours a night for about 3 months and I was still far behind older players in stats. I had decently high melee weapon skills and archery as well as some magic trained up, but I was still nowhere near the veteran characters with multiple AOE nukes and maxxed out masteries.
but again, consider other the PvE in other games. are you suggesting that although you liked the PvE in this game over time you became more bored with it then you would have in the same amount of time for another MMO? see my point?
I am not suggesting that the PvE is as good or as intresting as it can be I am saying that COMPARED TO OTHER MMO's the PvE both in the short run and in the long run. You dissagree so I must ask, which MMO did you feel had a PvE system that was more fun (and hopefully your answer will not be more fun = easier to progress)
Well... in other games, I usually find that I am nearing max level by the 3 month point playing 4-5 hours per day. I have to say that I didn't enjoy most of the encounters in these games as much as I have in Darkfall because most other MMOs have the tired old school MMO combat style and were not as fun. What they did have was varying content, scripted events, well thought-out dungeons and quests, etc.. All of these things help the grind to seem like less of a grind.
In Darkfall, you have essentially nothing to mask the grind and it is (or was) much longer than in these other games. You just have to go back to the same mob spawns and grind grind grind. This is why I started to get so bored with it even though I enjoyed it thoroughly for the first 3 months I played.
And the main problem I had was that I joined the game specifically for the end-game PvP. I love PVP and I usually only tend to play games where I can PVP on a competitive level relatively quickly. I am not really interested in PVEing for a year to get there. I was expecting to have to grind PVE for a while... but not nearly as long as it ended up being.
Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
WAR you can get in from lvl 1 or 2 and actually do something...
Mentioned before was Shadowbane. It took little to no time to max your character. It had many other flaws, but that definately wasn't one of them.
I will say this. DFO has the mechanics to be a much better PvP MMO than either of these, or any that have come before it. The problem is, the grind and the difference in power between a noob and a vet. We are not talking about SKILL!!! We are talking about the artificial increases for time played!
If you are a vet, shouldn't you already have the skill to defeat someone new to the game without the extra stats and buffs to your char?
The only way progression works in a PvP game is for it to be very fast or either for there to be other artificial barriers such as level restrictions(example WAR). I am talking about artifical, such as stats and more abilities.
Because stats and abilities are already part of the game, the game CAN NOT BE truely skill based. Because there are other factors that determine the outcome than JUST YOUR SKILL.
JUST YOUR SKILL = WHAT REAL PvPer's WANT!!!
So the only way that DFO can truely come close to a real skill based game is to make it easy for everyone to max their stats and abilities.
Anytime you add other factors into the game besides player skill, you have already started moving away from what a true PvPer wants.
I asked you what MMO game has better PvE. your answer was WAR and shadow BECUASE its easier and faster to level up.
Sorry but that does not mean better to me.
I find DF PvE better becuase its more challenging and 'realistic' than other MMOs. Now, be extreemly careful in reading what I am saying, 'compared to other MMO's' is a very important part of what I am saying
Misunderstood...
I guess the question is, what are you doing in DF for the PvE?
Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Ya no wonder he is enjoying MO so much, my god the game would be horrible to play with the UI permanently set to default.
This is a text book example of someone who has spent next to no time playing a game, then to come on the forums to broadcast complete BS. How do people spend so much time on a forum dedicated solely to MMORPGs, and yet be incapable of figuring out that you can heavily modify the UI?
When the mood strikes for an afternoon whine, it's usually a good idea to have somewhat of an idea of what you're whining about
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I really enjoyed the PVE in the game at first. It was so much more reactive and engaging than what I was used to. I started to get bored after playing hard for about 3 months though. All of the mob spawns are the same and very little thought was put into the dungeons. I just felt like I was repeating the same actions over and over and over again and it started to annoy me. And when I realized I still had months to go before I could be really useful in PvP, I stopped playing.
I still don't know how people manage to get competitive with vets after 2 months of playing casually. I played an average of 4-5 hours a night for about 3 months and I was still far behind older players in stats. I had decently high melee weapon skills and archery as well as some magic trained up, but I was still nowhere near the veteran characters with multiple AOE nukes and maxxed out masteries.
but again, consider other the PvE in other games. are you suggesting that although you liked the PvE in this game over time you became more bored with it then you would have in the same amount of time for another MMO? see my point?
I am not suggesting that the PvE is as good or as intresting as it can be I am saying that COMPARED TO OTHER MMO's the PvE both in the short run and in the long run. You dissagree so I must ask, which MMO did you feel had a PvE system that was more fun (and hopefully your answer will not be more fun = easier to progress)
What other MMO do better is that you change mobs and locations more often so boredom doesn't kick in so fast. Additonally you have quests which make grinding bareable ( at least some people ) and you are not under constant threat of being stumped in the ground. I am not saying that Darkfall should adopt those ways, not at all, for me it would be waste of time. I rather thing about something sandboxy which would work as well as those theme park solutions.
Don't forget as well that Darkfall is advertised as hardcore PvP game, but you need to spend around 3 months or more on focused PvE. Most people just can't bare to kill 9999th troll while being with no chances in pvp. That's the main reason except lack of variety in the game content which makes so many peopel to quit DF after first month.
Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Read again and you'll see my beef revolving around the right mouse button being a permanent fixture that cannot be changed from the cursor toggle. Every time you attempt to change it in the options menu it makes the window disappear.
Even a 'retarded kid' could have realised that without inserting his foot in his mouth.
Goddamn Darktards...
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I heard MO is having problems of their own? Like lag, server maintence without notice, just a ton of bugs? I don't know, just saw that on their forums.
Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Read again and you'll see my beef revolving around the right mouse button being a permanent fixture that cannot be changed from the cursor toggle. Every time you attempt to change it in the options menu it makes the window disappear.
Even a 'retarded kid' could have realised that without inserting his foot in his mouth.
Goddamn Darktards...
Sorry bro, never heard of this before,
Either you are bugged and are the ONLY 1 that has this problem, or you are a retard .
Only 1 meaning, I never heard of it or seen a post on forums, on here or DFO forums.
So, if you do not know how to submit a ticket or "slow", it still results in the same way.
I've been playing for 1.2 years and AV has screwed me out of my time investment 4 times now. Some of us original Darkfall players have spent so much time developing our chars, only to have AV make a patch that makes it 10x easier or handing out advantages that took several months to attain.
AV has caved to the whiners and this means they will continue to cave.
Its like being in a yearlong weightlifting competition and training for 12 months and then they change the rules and start giving the new competitors steroids and attactching weights to those who actually put forth the effort.
someday you people may wish you could 2v1 for all the time you have invested into your character but you wil never be able to because everyone has 450 hp and you can't possibly go through all that HP before two guys go through yours.
soloing in Darkfall is dead, character progression as part of the competition is also dead and they are allowing the noobs and whiners to compete with the best and that is the reason that I don't play WoW.
Time for this competitive gamer to start looking for another game.
Thanks for the great times AV, its a shame you didn't learn the lesson that SWG had to learn about what happens when you cater to that vocal minority of whiners and bads.
So you invested time to have a clear advantage over newer players and now AV is cutting the time invested requirement and your upset that you will actually have a challenge fighting equally skilled up characters?
Are you a pvper? Last time I checked pvpers wanted an actual challenge when they played. What happened to Skill> Time invested?
What a lame QQ post, you make all of us pvpers look bad.
"WHaaaa... All these guys are as good as me, I dont wanna play anymore whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!"
Really?!?
Agreed 100%. OP is a bright example of what was wrong with DF for a long time. DF still needs a lot of fixing, but at least AV is moving in the right direction.
yea, DF needs more players who quit after a week like you did. Pissing off their base wont hurt them.
Yes, exactly. Need more players. Need to remove those things that made me and so many others quit the game. Because their current player base is too small, they cannot survive on the few players who macroed their way into god mode from the start.
Comments
No one said that one had to interact with a game for extended periods of time. Fail at deflection.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
Best one could do that doesnt agree and expects no one to be able to game more than them or more efficiently than them, as is implied there, is to also petition developers to not allow anyone to play their product for more than an hour a day. But again, and excellent portrayal of the entitlement group wanting to force others to play on their terms.
My bet is that AV will lose more than they will gain as this isnt something that was to be expected from AV based on their design intent for a competitve sandboxy freeform environment, as mentioned, but now that it might occur, can relegate this title to a rudimentary third/first-person shooter simulator.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Like playing in space? Newsflash, dude; EVE is one of the most successful mmo's, growing organically over 7 years compared to most others, AoC, PotBS, LotRO, WAR, EQ, and the list goes on. Since EVE has trounced most other established stuidos in the market in terms of subscriptions and sustained growth over-time, I'd bet it would just be more successful if I didnt have to only play as a ship.
And to suggest the alarmist mention of this word grind, is so overused by those that want entitlements, its not amusing any more. Grind is nothing more than progression through use of game resources, time, effort, and utilization of coded tools towards earned character progression. Remove that, and much of the sense of accomplishment is certanly eroded.
MO is not only an organic free-form, full loot sandboxy title with a much richercontent than DF, its game-play assets are more complex, with deeper character and broader game-play development available than DF.
welfare gaming....dude, do you even read yourself sometimes?
i really have nothing else to say to your... comments.
Reality sucks everytime when it rings true, doesnt it.
This guy is VERY much so exaggerating.
From what I can see the patch didn't level the field that much at atm.
The HP change just means it is going to take a vet one more hit to kill you and two more for you to kill him.
The ore might be a bigger change but it will take some time to see the effect of this. But as it stands now unless you have really high crafting and a lot of time to mine rare ore you will actually be probably worse off with the patch.
In the long run lets say you are able to craft some plate with some R50 or 60's if a vet is running around in infernal and R80's the ground still won't be very even. Let alone you will need to grind you melee mastery to 75+ and Ignore pain, defense, etc.
If everyone has even armor and weapons with the patch things would be more even but I think it is too early to tell.
From what I am hearing you get about one rare ore roughly every other node. Let say a node = 5 minutes that means it will take you roughly 10 minutes to get the material to craft one weapon (if you can make R50's+). Add in some ganking loss plus crafting time and travel and you still have a fair amount of time to get one weapon. Attaining gear will still be a time sink.
Elitist gamers, unfortunately, have no real grip on reality.
They fail to recognize that a game is a business and it needs to provide incentive for a new player to not quit before the 1st month is up because elitist d-bags wipe the floor with them.
It seems like there is a fundamental difference of opinion here regarding the definition of the term 'competitive'. For many of us, a game can be considered more competitive if there are lots of players on semi-equal footing in terms of character ability. This leads to PvP encounters which are close and difficult to win. It makes individual skill be the deciding factor rather than artificial handicaps based on nothing other than time played.
Most of us are not arguing that there should be no character development required in this game. Please don't oversimplify the argument. Obviously character development is essential to all MMORPGs. What we are arguing is that it should not take nearly as long to reach the plateau in character ability. There are many other PvP games which have had meaningful character progression and have not required such a massive time investment. Characters reach the plateau in just a couple of months and then its all based on skill and experience after that point. Forces are relatively even and battles are closer as a result. It becomes difficult to win unless you are truly good at the game. This is what competitive gaming means to me... and it does not preclude sandbox elements such as empire building. If anything, it enhances them by allowing more people to participate.
I truly don't understand those of you who consider massive grinding to be competitive. There is absolutely no skill involved in grinding a character for months on end. Even less skill is involved in macroing or leaving a character unattended while swimming, etc. These things rely only on massive amounts of patience, not skill. They ensure that only those players who devote their time fully to a video game can succeed because they are the only ones who possibly have enough time to do so. You are no better than anyone else as a result of these things... you simply have an artificial advantage over others because you apparently have less real life responsibilities. This is simply not fair and it is the antithesis of competitive gaming in my opinion. It benefits no one because those who succeed at the game must sacrifice far too much in their real lives and those who don't have time can never experience the true focus of the game. I know there are many who agree with me... and it would seem AV is starting to as well.
Just giving credit where it's due very well thought out and articulated post and quite reasonable if someone was asking me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Essentially you are describing what two games did with different approaches, both considered successes.
Guildwars provided you with the option and ability to have zero grind and jump into equal character power in PvP settings. No matter how long you played you were equal to your opponents.
EVE provided a few months wait to be highly competative and viable. A 6 month old toon could compete toe-to-toe with a 6 year old toon and have a shot at winning. At 2 months the toon is PvP viable enough to not be an ignorable target.
After two months of playing Darkfall, I was easily at a competitive level with respect to PVP. I never played for eight hour + gaming binges either. Just 1-3 hours a day even taking a day or two off in any given week.
I would have quit the game if I had been pretty much done developing my character at that point. There are a plethora of other FPS games I play that grant me the luxury of being on a more even playing field early on. MMORPGs(to me) are so much more.
Now I'm currently on a break from Darkfall so I can't really comment on the new patch, but something tells me if you wanted to plateau in this game in just a couple of months you really weren't enjoying the PVE. I enjoyed skilling up on the various mobs in this game. I liked the AI.
But yes, in a couple of months it was quite easy to become competitive in PVP before the patch. Assuming you enjoyed the process that is.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I really enjoyed the PVE in the game at first. It was so much more reactive and engaging than what I was used to. I started to get bored after playing hard for about 3 months though. All of the mob spawns are the same and very little thought was put into the dungeons. I just felt like I was repeating the same actions over and over and over again and it started to annoy me. And when I realized I still had months to go before I could be really useful in PvP, I stopped playing.
I still don't know how people manage to get competitive with vets after 2 months of playing casually. I played an average of 4-5 hours a night for about 3 months and I was still far behind older players in stats. I had decently high melee weapon skills and archery as well as some magic trained up, but I was still nowhere near the veteran characters with multiple AOE nukes and maxxed out masteries.
but again, consider other the PvE in other games. are you suggesting that although you liked the PvE in this game over time you became more bored with it then you would have in the same amount of time for another MMO? see my point?
I am not suggesting that the PvE is as good or as intresting as it can be I am saying that COMPARED TO OTHER MMO's the PvE both in the short run and in the long run. You dissagree so I must ask, which MMO did you feel had a PvE system that was more fun (and hopefully your answer will not be more fun = easier to progress)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Well... in other games, I usually find that I am nearing max level by the 3 month point playing 4-5 hours per day. I have to say that I didn't enjoy most of the encounters in these games as much as I have in Darkfall because most other MMOs have the tired old school MMO combat style and were not as fun. What they did have was varying content, scripted events, well thought-out dungeons and quests, etc.. All of these things help the grind to seem like less of a grind.
In Darkfall, you have essentially nothing to mask the grind and it is (or was) much longer than in these other games. You just have to go back to the same mob spawns and grind grind grind. This is why I started to get so bored with it even though I enjoyed it thoroughly for the first 3 months I played.
And the main problem I had was that I joined the game specifically for the end-game PvP. I love PVP and I usually only tend to play games where I can PVP on a competitive level relatively quickly. I am not really interested in PVEing for a year to get there. I was expecting to have to grind PVE for a while... but not nearly as long as it ended up being.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Misunderstood...
I guess the question is, what are you doing in DF for the PvE?
It was suppose to be a PvP game?
***Edited***
Well better question, why is this a PvE game? :P
Ya no wonder he is enjoying MO so much, my god the game would be horrible to play with the UI permanently set to default.
This is a text book example of someone who has spent next to no time playing a game, then to come on the forums to broadcast complete BS. How do people spend so much time on a forum dedicated solely to MMORPGs, and yet be incapable of figuring out that you can heavily modify the UI?
When the mood strikes for an afternoon whine, it's usually a good idea to have somewhat of an idea of what you're whining about
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
What other MMO do better is that you change mobs and locations more often so boredom doesn't kick in so fast. Additonally you have quests which make grinding bareable ( at least some people ) and you are not under constant threat of being stumped in the ground. I am not saying that Darkfall should adopt those ways, not at all, for me it would be waste of time. I rather thing about something sandboxy which would work as well as those theme park solutions.
Don't forget as well that Darkfall is advertised as hardcore PvP game, but you need to spend around 3 months or more on focused PvE. Most people just can't bare to kill 9999th troll while being with no chances in pvp. That's the main reason except lack of variety in the game content which makes so many peopel to quit DF after first month.
Read again and you'll see my beef revolving around the right mouse button being a permanent fixture that cannot be changed from the cursor toggle. Every time you attempt to change it in the options menu it makes the window disappear.
Even a 'retarded kid' could have realised that without inserting his foot in his mouth.
Goddamn Darktards...
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I heard MO is having problems of their own? Like lag, server maintence without notice, just a ton of bugs? I don't know, just saw that on their forums.
Sorry bro, never heard of this before,
Either you are bugged and are the ONLY 1 that has this problem, or you are a retard
.
Only 1 meaning, I never heard of it or seen a post on forums, on here or DFO forums.
So, if you do not know how to submit a ticket or "slow", it still results in the same way.
TRY AGAIN, next!
Yes, exactly. Need more players. Need to remove those things that made me and so many others quit the game. Because their current player base is too small, they cannot survive on the few players who macroed their way into god mode from the start.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.