Even in the beta, with all the asshats, cheaters and bugs - it's way better than my short experience in the DF trial. At least MO has palpable controls, and knows it's purely first-person, instead of making you switch between the viewpoints just to handle idle tasks. DF ism't a bad game for it's ideals, but it sure as hell is for it's interface and stupid controls.
I still can't get over the right-clicker being permanently bound to toggle the cursor. Must be the 5th time I've said it tofay alone, but it makes be want to scream inside. Unintuitive controls does not a "hardcore game" make, though you could argue that it does.
Not permanent bounded, wtf you talking about, my toggle is V
its retarded kids like you that give darkfall a bad name.
Read again and you'll see my beef revolving around the right mouse button being a permanent fixture that cannot be changed from the cursor toggle. Every time you attempt to change it in the options menu it makes the window disappear.
Even a 'retarded kid' could have realised that without inserting his foot in his mouth.
Goddamn Darktards...
Sorry bro, never heard of this before,
Either you are bugged and are the ONLY 1 that has this problem, or you are a retard .
Only 1 meaning, I never heard of it or seen a post on forums, on here or DFO forums.
So, if you do not know how to submit a ticket or "slow", it still results in the same way.
TRY AGAIN, next!
So you are saying you have something else bound to the right mouse button?
If so, then just tell me how to bind parry to it and I'll humbly retract my statement.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You call yourself a competitive gamer and then you whine about the fact that newer players will be able to compete with you. Do you truly not see the irony in that?
Ka-POW!
Here we are. Art imitating life. People less likely to succed and less likely to put forth effort towards accomplishments have demonstrated time and time again in society that they are entitled to what others have accomplished, but without similar effort, yet an expectation.
Where once DF may have been a competitive outlet where players earn their competitive edge through game-play resources, time and effort, leading to progressively more growth and edge, are now observing welfare gaming.
There are few people less likely to succeed at life, than those who spend 16 hours a day grinding a video game to pwn noobs.
That's not art imitating life. That's non-life(16 hours a day playing a game) playing virtual life("building up swimming skill").
No one said that one had to interact with a game for extended periods of time. Fail at deflection.
The attitude of my response above still stands as an accurate portrayal of welfare gaming at its finest that AV is implementing, the have nots expecting to have instant gratification of what the haves have earned through contributing and involving one-self based on the tools, resources, and time and effort of game-play.
first off, if satisfaction always has to == you winning then you have no idea how the realities of real competition play out. EVEN if there is ONE guy who is "clearly" #1 at the top of some measurement rating, he still loses sometimes, and if he's a good sport, he likes a good challenge.
secondly, you seem to be more impressed with "accomplishments" through accruing "skills" over long periods of life-wasting, putting all your time "investment" eggs into one basket (Darkfall being the basket in this example....you can't take those "skills" with you to any other game), than people who have actually acquired REAL skills in REAL competitive games, that can REALLY be transferred over to any real skill based game,
and who probably SPENT WAY MORE YEARS doing these REAL activities than you did wasting it on character "progression".
there can only be (i'll just pull a number out of my ass) lets say %15 of all players who can hope to be at "the top" in real skills, whereas when you judge people based on character progression, ANY person with no-life or no job can be at "the top". %100 OF THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE CAN DO THAT! its nothing to be be proud of, its nothing unusual.
YOU are likely the have not. what you don't have likely is real skill, and YOU WANT WELFARE HANDOUT WINS even tho you didn't put in the years of playing games based on REAL skills to have earned the right to win.
sorry, i'm gonna have to be vague, but hopefully it helps you to figure it out. i have my right mouse bound to sprint, and my middle/scroll button bound to toggle mouselooking. i thought i had no problem doing that part in game. what i DID have a problem remapping in-game was LEFT_SHIFT i believe. i manually edited one of the files (its in readable html or xml code) you can find under the normal windows directory that keeps settings for most windows programs, and looked at the text used for the buttons and commands i was interested in remapping. i mapped my PARRY to my LEFT_SHIFT that way. you should be able to remap anything that gives you problems within the in-game UI in this manner. i would think. good luck.
sorry, i'm gonna have to be vague, but hopefully it helps you to figure it out. i have my right mouse bound to sprint, and my middle/scroll button bound to toggle mouselooking. i thought i had no problem doing that part in game. what i DID have a problem remapping in-game was LEFT_SHIFT i believe. i manually edited one of the files (its in readable html or xml code) you can find under the normal windows directory that keeps settings for most windows programs, and looked at the text used for the buttons and commands i was interested in remapping. i mapped my PARRY to my LEFT_SHIFT that way. you should be able to remap anything that gives you problems within the in-game UI in this manner. i would think. good luck.
Trying to bind the right mouse button to anything in the game makes the window disappear though... I will log in one more time to see if I can set the toggle to another key so that it clears the right mouse button, but I didn't find the option there when I checked. I can see editing your keymapping using an outside program, and while a sure-fire fix, it does nothing to rectify the actual issue with the game and is more of a work-around that needs to be loaded every time you choose to play Darkfall specifically. As long as it works though... I guess.
*trying it out agaIn*
(server is down, so I can't. will try later)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
sorry, i'm gonna have to be vague, but hopefully it helps you to figure it out. i have my right mouse bound to sprint, and my middle/scroll button bound to toggle mouselooking. i thought i had no problem doing that part in game. what i DID have a problem remapping in-game was LEFT_SHIFT i believe. i manually edited one of the files (its in readable html or xml code) you can find under the normal windows directory that keeps settings for most windows programs, and looked at the text used for the buttons and commands i was interested in remapping. i mapped my PARRY to my LEFT_SHIFT that way. you should be able to remap anything that gives you problems within the in-game UI in this manner. i would think. good luck.
Trying to bind the right mouse button to anything in the game makes the window disappear though... I will log in one more time to see if I can set the toggle to another key so that it clears the right mouse button, but I didn't find the option there when I checked. I can see editing your keymapping using an outside program, and while a sure-fire fix, it does nothing to rectify the actual issue with the game and is more of a work-around that needs to be loaded every time you choose to play Darkfall specifically. As long as it works though... I guess.
*trying it out agaIn*
i'm not talking about an outside program, i'm talking about editing Darkfall data files. i neglected to mention, when you go to the windows dir that keeps settings for most windows apps, that you want to drill down into the Darkfall directory, and then down a few more directories. the last directory you want to go into has a unique number id as the directory name, which is different for every character (you might have more than one if you made a char and deleted it). in there is at least 3 settings files that are readable html or xml. just open them in an editor and read through them, it should become obvious with a little poking. once you do that Darkfall will always remember that setting. no external things to load.
yeah of course you shouldn't HAVE to do that, but i guess not enough people filed a bug report about it for them to pay it any mind. 8)
I'm familiar with editing a simple .ini, but that sounds like a hassle ( I don't even have the means to view the files)... but at least you wouldn't have to do it twice. I'll consider it after checking again whether the right-mouse can be changed in-game, it's all that really bugs me in terms of keybindings. I like the left-shift as the traditional sprint anyway.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm familiar with editing a simple .ini, but that sounds like a hassle ( I don't even have the means to view the files)... but at least you wouldn't have to do it twice. I'll consider it after checking again whether the right-mouse can be changed in-game, it's all that really bugs me in terms of keybindings. I like the left-shift as the traditional sprint anyway.
I've been using the right mouse button for parry since my second hour of play which was back in October. It works just fine, unless of course there is some sort of new issue that I havn't seen yet.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I'm familiar with editing a simple .ini, but that sounds like a hassle ( I don't even have the means to view the files)... but at least you wouldn't have to do it twice. I'll consider it after checking again whether the right-mouse can be changed in-game, it's all that really bugs me in terms of keybindings. I like the left-shift as the traditional sprint anyway.
you can right click on the file, select "Open With" and choose notepad from the list.
by default, shift (in combination with numbere keys) used to be (probably still is) bound to changing your hotbar panels (between the 10 possible hotbars), so that can screw you up if you trying selecting a spell or skill while you are sprinting. if you get unexpected changes to your hotbar panel, make sure to rebind or clear the settings for those.
(i believe a large percentage of Darkfall vets have specific keys/key-combos bound to many of the slots on the hotbar panels that aren't visible, since you can do that......... i personally have a unique hotkey combination for all 100 lol, which is somewhat manageable with my Razer Naga mouse)
first off, if satisfaction always has to == you winning then you have no idea how the realities of real competition play out. EVEN if there is ONE guy who is "clearly" #1 at the top of some measurement rating, he still loses sometimes, and if he's a good sport, he likes a good challenge.
secondly, you seem to be more impressed with "accomplishments" through accruing "skills" over long periods of life-wasting, putting all your time "investment" eggs into one basket (Darkfall being the basket in this example....you can't take those "skills" with you to any other game), than people who have actually acquired REAL skills in REAL competitive games, that can REALLY be transferred over to any real skill based game,
and who probably SPENT WAY MORE YEARS doing these REAL activities than you did wasting it on character "progression".
there can only be (i'll just pull a number out of my ass) lets say %15 of all players who can hope to be at "the top" in real skills, whereas when you judge people based on character progression, ANY person with no-life or no job can be at "the top". %100 OF THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE CAN DO THAT! its nothing to be be proud of, its nothing unusual.
YOU are likely the have not. what you don't have likely is real skill, and YOU WANT WELFARE HANDOUT WINS even tho you didn't put in the years of playing games based on REAL skills to have earned the right to win.
I can't find anything in your post I do not agree with! Well said
first off, if satisfaction always has to == you winning then you have no idea how the realities of real competition play out. EVEN if there is ONE guy who is "clearly" #1 at the top of some measurement rating, he still loses sometimes, and if he's a good sport, he likes a good challenge.
secondly, you seem to be more impressed with "accomplishments" through accruing "skills" over long periods of life-wasting, putting all your time "investment" eggs into one basket (Darkfall being the basket in this example....you can't take those "skills" with you to any other game), than people who have actually acquired REAL skills in REAL competitive games, that can REALLY be transferred over to any real skill based game,
and who probably SPENT WAY MORE YEARS doing these REAL activities than you did wasting it on character "progression".
there can only be (i'll just pull a number out of my ass) lets say %15 of all players who can hope to be at "the top" in real skills, whereas when you judge people based on character progression, ANY person with no-life or no job can be at "the top". %100 OF THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE CAN DO THAT! its nothing to be be proud of, its nothing unusual.
YOU are likely the have not. what you don't have likely is real skill, and YOU WANT WELFARE HANDOUT WINS even tho you didn't put in the years of playing games based on REAL skills to have earned the right to win.
I can't find anything in your post I do not agree with! Well said
This Darkfall forum for the most part is just a bunch of dumb ass assumptions followed up with equally intelligent pats on the back from people who only hear what they want to hear. Fine work boys, keep it up
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
need more posts from these outsiders who don't know WTH they are talking about.
People dont have to play the game to know that you watn ezmode kills.
And some of us that do have already asked for his gear as he departs...
not quitting, just keeping my eyes out for a game I would enjoy more. I don't enjoy games where they change the game to allow the bad players beat the best simply because there was more than one of them.
You wont find an other one with full loot. Mortal online have no grind at all. Other upcoming mmorpg's with full loot wont have grind. The only game with full loot that have grind is Eve online, but the question is, do you like playing in space?
And to suggest the alarmist mention of this word grind, is so overused by those that want entitlements, its not amusing any more. Grind is nothing more than progression through use of game resources, time, effort, and utilization of coded tools towards earned character progression. Remove that, and much of the sense of accomplishment is certanly eroded.
Grind is simply doing mind numbing repitition to get from point A to point B. Fact of the matter is it's more of a bore in Darkfail then it is in other games. What about that do none of you understand yet? It's also boring in EvE and most other MMO's as well.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Grind is simply doing mind numbing repitition to get from point A to point B. Fact of the matter is it's more of a bore in Darkfail then it is in other games. What about that do none of you understand yet? It's also boring in EvE and most other MMO's as well.
As the point you make, and many others have, have dumbed-down the grind debate to a proposition for a third-person shooter where engaging oneself in game-play for character growth takes a back-seat to entitleing those of you that feel there is this unfair advantage at not having as much or being as proficient as someone else at something that you havent accomplished.
Just say it. Place a vote for one race and stick figures that have accomplished stats right from the begining, of which dont influence someone elses game-play in any way. Tada...you have Darkfall.
This patch will bring more people back to the game than it will drive off. The ones that it drives off are people like you, so no one cares. Goodbye.
they will gain the instant gratification retards and will lose some of thier most dedicated customers. Clearly you are a genious.
lol.......... it will likely start bringing back some of the PvP'rs considering the PvP'rs left when the game revolved around ganking newbs that presented no challenge. I know I did and many long time PvP clans did. PvP is about competition not camping players that have no chance at fighting back.
At launch things were great (Balance wise) because everyone was on the same footing. Advantage was minimal, which made the whole thing fun. Later the toon "level" gave such an advantage that it became fairly boring.
But this is just from a DFO vet
In any case, yes this is a step towards bringing new players to the game and old players back. It seems it's inadvertently also weeding out the less desirables which is just another big plus lol.
So you like games that just give instant max level or a week to max level? So basically someone who spends an hour a day should be able to keep up with someone who spends 10 hours a day by your logic?
I agree with the OP completely. This is the problem that I see with most games. They turn around after a while and destroy the effort that was put into the game by their original players to try to cater to new people starting out. By the failed logic of many of these gaming companies and the "I want to start a game and be able to compete with everyone instantly" mentality of this new age of gamer I have also had a hard time keeping interest in games. Its a slap in the face to everyone who "earned their stripes" so to speak by working their way to the top. If you put in the effort to level and farm the epic gear you deserve to be on top. 2 random nublets who have been playing a game for a week should not be able to take down any 1 person who has been playing the game for a year.
I personally hate grinding but at the same time I am competitive and want to be the best. I make the time to put in more effort than the average person so I can be a higher level and better geared than them. Others might put in more than I do but thats where I need to be more skilled than them to win. I hate P2W games and I hate instant gratification games. I'm a masochist. I get enjoyment out of torturing myself grinding even though I hate it so I can take on 5 people if I want to. I dont believe in killing newbs but I love killing 20 noobs at the same time. I also love killing newb killers and watch them rage wanting to know why I attack them just for killing people half their level. I do this in every game I have ever played until they make it an instant gratification game then I just quit. I will never accept the instant gratification model that gives everything to someone so they can compete with those that have been playing for a year immediately when they start.
@OP Sadly your best chance of finding a game which doesnt ram a baseball bat up your ass and violate you a year after you start to cater to the instant gratification crowd is to look for a low budget cheaply ran game. You will get poor customer service but at the same time they will not change the game a year down the road because they are too cheap to pay for upgrades and changes. You will also end up with a low population because of the poorly ran game but those are the only games that tend not to screw their original players and that is only because they are too damn cheap to screw you.
This patch will bring more people back to the game than it will drive off. The ones that it drives off are people like you, so no one cares. Goodbye.
they will gain the instant gratification retards and will lose some of thier most dedicated customers. Clearly you are a genious.
lol.......... it will likely start bringing back some of the PvP'rs considering the PvP'rs left when the game revolved around ganking newbs that presented no challenge. I know I did and many long time PvP clans did. PvP is about competition not camping players that have no chance at fighting back.
At launch things were great (Balance wise) because everyone was on the same footing. Advantage was minimal, which made the whole thing fun. Later the toon "level" gave such an advantage that it became fairly boring.
But this is just from a DFO vet
In any case, yes this is a step towards bringing new players to the game and old players back. It seems it's inadvertently also weeding out the less desirables which is just another big plus lol.
So you like games that just give instant max level or a week to max level? So basically someone who spends an hour a day should be able to keep up with someone who spends 10 hours a day by your logic?
I agree with the OP completely. This is the problem that I see with most games. They turn around after a while and destroy the effort that was put into the game by their original players to try to cater to new people starting out. By the failed logic of many of these gaming companies and the "I want to start a game and be able to compete with everyone instantly" mentality of this new age of gamer I have also had a hard time keeping interest in games. Its a slap in the face to everyone who "earned their stripes" so to speak by working their way to the top. If you put in the effort to level and farm the epic gear you deserve to be on top. 2 random nublets who have been playing a game for a week should not be able to take down any 1 person who has been playing the game for a year.
I personally hate grinding but at the same time I am competitive and want to be the best. I make the time to put in more effort than the average person so I can be a higher level and better geared than them. Others might put in more than I do but thats where I need to be more skilled than them to win. I hate P2W games and I hate instant gratification games. I'm a masochist. I get enjoyment out of torturing myself grinding even though I hate it so I can take on 5 people if I want to. I dont believe in killing newbs but I love killing 20 noobs at the same time. I also love killing newb killers and watch them rage wanting to know why I attack them just for killing people half their level. I do this in every game I have ever played until they make it an instant gratification game then I just quit. I will never accept the instant gratification model that gives everything to someone so they can compete with those that have been playing for a year immediately when they start.
@OP Sadly your best chance of finding a game which doesnt ram a baseball bat up your ass and violate you a year after you start to cater to the instant gratification crowd is to look for a low budget cheaply ran game. You will get poor customer service but at the same time they will not change the game a year down the road because they are too cheap to pay for upgrades and changes. You will also end up with a low population because of the poorly ran game but those are the only games that tend not to screw their original players and that is only because they are too damn cheap to screw you.
I will assume you meant to quote and ask this of someone else because thats not what I said at all. Now if you wish to address something I actually said I will take you a bit more seriously and give you and actual reply
AV screwed up that simple, they betrayed the effort their loyal playerbase has put into this game by making this carebear patch. Time for us to step up and show them they can't do that. I'll give them one more month if this carebearing doesn't stop I'll move on.
Back in the good old days you have been rewarded for beeing a loyal customer and nowadays you get a bunch of spoiled carebears keep on whinning and developers are giving up by dumbing down the game --> losing the loyal playerbase for the instant gratification crowd. I'm not willing to support this kind of thinking Darkfall was produced as a hardcore game and this patch drove it away. Talked to many friends about this patch and no one is happy most are considering calling it a game.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
AV screwed up that simple, they betrayed the effort their loyal playerbase has put into this game by making this carebear patch. Time for us to step up and show them they can't do that. I'll give them one more month if this carebearing doesn't stop I'll move on.
Back in the good old days you have been rewarded for beeing a loyal customer and nowadays you get a bunch of spoiled carebears keep on whinning and developers are giving up by dumbing down the game --> losing the loyal playerbase for the instant gratification crowd. I'm not willing to support this kind of thinking Darkfall was produced as a hardcore game and this patch drove it away. Talked to many friends about this patch and no one is happy most are considering calling it a game.
A player who started DF since day one could not even compete. Those who macroed are the one who could compete. So what loyal fan are you talking about? I dont think cheaters are loyal.
In the meantime, I'm actually going to play now that the game is a bit more balanced.
Fantastic!
I look forward to the inevitable incoming bitching and chewing, as the game will probably never be what you want it to be.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Nicely put.
I think there is a third though that wants a combination of the two. Some progression but not to much.
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Nicely put.
I think there is a third though that wants a combination of the two. Some progression but not to much.
might be although I really havent seen strong evidence of that. With that said, if the developers slowly increased the cap it might be away to keep those who like both happy. They will not feel that they 'must' get the complete max in order to play pvp which then causes everyone else to do the same which then causes a near real requirement. Instead for 4 months cap is 25, then patch comes out for 50 etc.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Thats not exactly true. UO managed to accomodate both groups in a fantasy setting. They did this by limiting dmg inc and other mechanics in PvP. That put caps in place that ONLY effected PvP. This kept the game from new player and vet relatively mild in terms of PvP. The PvE caps were much, much higher. Meaning if you had +250% dmg, if you struck a player It could only go as high as lets say +50% and in PvE it would go up to +250%.
This kept the progression and allowed more to get into PvP without having to hit max skills.
Though hitting cap didn't take very long either and there was balance due to limited amount of skill point pool for your char. Granted there were still OP'd templates but the hard caps on the PvP kept them from being to OP'd.
So both groups can co-exist, the problem is with DFO's design it's taken the part each group hates the most and combined them lol.
Your standard progression being the end all measure of success lovers tend to not enjoy a more manual combat system, nor do they tend to enjoy FFA PvP with full loot.
Your standard PvP loving lunatics generally doesn't enjoy massive amounts of PvE grind required to advance in PvP. Nor do they want some unsurmountable advantage over others because that just kills the challenge.
AV has taken and made a game that turns off both RPG progression enthusists and PvP lovers alike creating a game that is basically killing itself. It would take some major changes at the core level at this point to appease both groups.
At this point in time their best bet is to simply try and appease one or the other and unless they are willing to do away with FFA PvP and full loot they are probably better off trying to appeal to PvP'rs.
Both groups can exist in the same game.... thats already been proven. DFO will either have to make core design changes to appeal to both groups or it will have to pick one or the other.
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Nicely put.
I think there is a third though that wants a combination of the two. Some progression but not to much.
might be although I really havent seen strong evidence of that. With that said, if the developers slowly increased the cap it might be away to keep those who like both happy. They will not feel that they 'must' get the complete max in order to play pvp which then causes everyone else to do the same which then causes a near real requirement. Instead for 4 months cap is 25, then patch comes out for 50 etc.
Problem there is that it's a short term fix. Every new player that joins the game for the PvP is now faced with almost everyone being at 100 skill cap. Which deters growth.
Comments
So you are saying you have something else bound to the right mouse button?
If so, then just tell me how to bind parry to it and I'll humbly retract my statement.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
first off, if satisfaction always has to == you winning then you have no idea how the realities of real competition play out. EVEN if there is ONE guy who is "clearly" #1 at the top of some measurement rating, he still loses sometimes, and if he's a good sport, he likes a good challenge.
secondly, you seem to be more impressed with "accomplishments" through accruing "skills" over long periods of life-wasting, putting all your time "investment" eggs into one basket (Darkfall being the basket in this example....you can't take those "skills" with you to any other game), than people who have actually acquired REAL skills in REAL competitive games, that can REALLY be transferred over to any real skill based game,
and who probably SPENT WAY MORE YEARS doing these REAL activities than you did wasting it on character "progression".
there can only be (i'll just pull a number out of my ass) lets say %15 of all players who can hope to be at "the top" in real skills, whereas when you judge people based on character progression, ANY person with no-life or no job can be at "the top". %100 OF THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE CAN DO THAT! its nothing to be be proud of, its nothing unusual.
YOU are likely the have not. what you don't have likely is real skill, and YOU WANT WELFARE HANDOUT WINS even tho you didn't put in the years of playing games based on REAL skills to have earned the right to win.
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@GTWander
sorry, i'm gonna have to be vague, but hopefully it helps you to figure it out. i have my right mouse bound to sprint, and my middle/scroll button bound to toggle mouselooking. i thought i had no problem doing that part in game. what i DID have a problem remapping in-game was LEFT_SHIFT i believe. i manually edited one of the files (its in readable html or xml code) you can find under the normal windows directory that keeps settings for most windows programs, and looked at the text used for the buttons and commands i was interested in remapping. i mapped my PARRY to my LEFT_SHIFT that way. you should be able to remap anything that gives you problems within the in-game UI in this manner. i would think. good luck.
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Trying to bind the right mouse button to anything in the game makes the window disappear though... I will log in one more time to see if I can set the toggle to another key so that it clears the right mouse button, but I didn't find the option there when I checked. I can see editing your keymapping using an outside program, and while a sure-fire fix, it does nothing to rectify the actual issue with the game and is more of a work-around that needs to be loaded every time you choose to play Darkfall specifically. As long as it works though... I guess.
*trying it out agaIn*
(server is down, so I can't. will try later)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
i'm not talking about an outside program, i'm talking about editing Darkfall data files. i neglected to mention, when you go to the windows dir that keeps settings for most windows apps, that you want to drill down into the Darkfall directory, and then down a few more directories. the last directory you want to go into has a unique number id as the directory name, which is different for every character (you might have more than one if you made a char and deleted it). in there is at least 3 settings files that are readable html or xml. just open them in an editor and read through them, it should become obvious with a little poking. once you do that Darkfall will always remember that setting. no external things to load.
yeah of course you shouldn't HAVE to do that, but i guess not enough people filed a bug report about it for them to pay it any mind. 8)
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I'm familiar with editing a simple .ini, but that sounds like a hassle ( I don't even have the means to view the files)... but at least you wouldn't have to do it twice. I'll consider it after checking again whether the right-mouse can be changed in-game, it's all that really bugs me in terms of keybindings. I like the left-shift as the traditional sprint anyway.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I've been using the right mouse button for parry since my second hour of play which was back in October. It works just fine, unless of course there is some sort of new issue that I havn't seen yet.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
you can right click on the file, select "Open With" and choose notepad from the list.
by default, shift (in combination with numbere keys) used to be (probably still is) bound to changing your hotbar panels (between the 10 possible hotbars), so that can screw you up if you trying selecting a spell or skill while you are sprinting. if you get unexpected changes to your hotbar panel, make sure to rebind or clear the settings for those.
(i believe a large percentage of Darkfall vets have specific keys/key-combos bound to many of the slots on the hotbar panels that aren't visible, since you can do that......... i personally have a unique hotkey combination for all 100 lol, which is somewhat manageable with my Razer Naga mouse)
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I can't find anything in your post I do not agree with! Well said
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This Darkfall forum for the most part is just a bunch of dumb ass assumptions followed up with equally intelligent pats on the back from people who only hear what they want to hear. Fine work boys, keep it up
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Well said, wisest man in this thread.
currently playing: Darkfall, EVE, SC2
Grind is simply doing mind numbing repitition to get from point A to point B. Fact of the matter is it's more of a bore in Darkfail then it is in other games. What about that do none of you understand yet? It's also boring in EvE and most other MMO's as well.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
As the point you make, and many others have, have dumbed-down the grind debate to a proposition for a third-person shooter where engaging oneself in game-play for character growth takes a back-seat to entitleing those of you that feel there is this unfair advantage at not having as much or being as proficient as someone else at something that you havent accomplished.
Just say it. Place a vote for one race and stick figures that have accomplished stats right from the begining, of which dont influence someone elses game-play in any way. Tada...you have Darkfall.
Why don't you first change the GUI_Toggle bind to something else, THEN change the right click bound?
Common sense please! :P
So you like games that just give instant max level or a week to max level? So basically someone who spends an hour a day should be able to keep up with someone who spends 10 hours a day by your logic?
I agree with the OP completely. This is the problem that I see with most games. They turn around after a while and destroy the effort that was put into the game by their original players to try to cater to new people starting out. By the failed logic of many of these gaming companies and the "I want to start a game and be able to compete with everyone instantly" mentality of this new age of gamer I have also had a hard time keeping interest in games. Its a slap in the face to everyone who "earned their stripes" so to speak by working their way to the top. If you put in the effort to level and farm the epic gear you deserve to be on top. 2 random nublets who have been playing a game for a week should not be able to take down any 1 person who has been playing the game for a year.
I personally hate grinding but at the same time I am competitive and want to be the best. I make the time to put in more effort than the average person so I can be a higher level and better geared than them. Others might put in more than I do but thats where I need to be more skilled than them to win. I hate P2W games and I hate instant gratification games. I'm a masochist. I get enjoyment out of torturing myself grinding even though I hate it so I can take on 5 people if I want to. I dont believe in killing newbs but I love killing 20 noobs at the same time. I also love killing newb killers and watch them rage wanting to know why I attack them just for killing people half their level. I do this in every game I have ever played until they make it an instant gratification game then I just quit. I will never accept the instant gratification model that gives everything to someone so they can compete with those that have been playing for a year immediately when they start.
@OP Sadly your best chance of finding a game which doesnt ram a baseball bat up your ass and violate you a year after you start to cater to the instant gratification crowd is to look for a low budget cheaply ran game. You will get poor customer service but at the same time they will not change the game a year down the road because they are too cheap to pay for upgrades and changes. You will also end up with a low population because of the poorly ran game but those are the only games that tend not to screw their original players and that is only because they are too damn cheap to screw you.
I will assume you meant to quote and ask this of someone else because thats not what I said at all. Now if you wish to address something I actually said I will take you a bit more seriously and give you and actual reply
AV screwed up that simple, they betrayed the effort their loyal playerbase has put into this game by making this carebear patch. Time for us to step up and show them they can't do that. I'll give them one more month if this carebearing doesn't stop I'll move on.
Back in the good old days you have been rewarded for beeing a loyal customer and nowadays you get a bunch of spoiled carebears keep on whinning and developers are giving up by dumbing down the game --> losing the loyal playerbase for the instant gratification crowd. I'm not willing to support this kind of thinking Darkfall was produced as a hardcore game and this patch drove it away. Talked to many friends about this patch and no one is happy most are considering calling it a game.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
A player who started DF since day one could not even compete. Those who macroed are the one who could compete. So what loyal fan are you talking about? I dont think cheaters are loyal.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Vets please cry more.
Your tears are delicious...
In the meantime, I'm actually going to play now that the game is a bit more balanced.
Fantastic!
I look forward to the inevitable incoming bitching and chewing, as the game will probably never be what you want it to be.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
What I see very clearly is two different types of gamers both of which should not be playing the same game together.
The first type enjoys the process of progress and sees it as a never ending. Once progress is no longer possible then the game is over and its time to turn off the computer. (I fall with this category)
The other type wants to get to 'end game' as soon as possible mostly becuase they want to involve themselves in pvp where they feel that have a reasobably fair footing with foes.
I think both gaming approaches are 100% valid. I dont think one or the other is more right. The problem is that to make a very good game for one group will make a bad game for the other and vice versa (with one expection I will suggest below).
Ideally for those who see character progress as a means to an end rather than the game itself they would be best served playing a game with no progress at all. A Fantasy MMO version of Counter Strike for example.
The only other way around this is for the developer to slowly expose the cap skills. So for example instead of starting the game with skill of 100 and having every obssessed person try to get that one year goal as soon as possible just slowly increase the limit by starting say around 25, then patch with 50, then patch with 75 etc. Smart players will see this celverness most I think would not and fall into it like a frog in slowly boiling water.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Nicely put.
I think there is a third though that wants a combination of the two. Some progression but not to much.
might be although I really havent seen strong evidence of that. With that said, if the developers slowly increased the cap it might be away to keep those who like both happy. They will not feel that they 'must' get the complete max in order to play pvp which then causes everyone else to do the same which then causes a near real requirement. Instead for 4 months cap is 25, then patch comes out for 50 etc.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thats not exactly true. UO managed to accomodate both groups in a fantasy setting. They did this by limiting dmg inc and other mechanics in PvP. That put caps in place that ONLY effected PvP. This kept the game from new player and vet relatively mild in terms of PvP. The PvE caps were much, much higher. Meaning if you had +250% dmg, if you struck a player It could only go as high as lets say +50% and in PvE it would go up to +250%.
This kept the progression and allowed more to get into PvP without having to hit max skills.
Though hitting cap didn't take very long either and there was balance due to limited amount of skill point pool for your char. Granted there were still OP'd templates but the hard caps on the PvP kept them from being to OP'd.
So both groups can co-exist, the problem is with DFO's design it's taken the part each group hates the most and combined them lol.
Your standard progression being the end all measure of success lovers tend to not enjoy a more manual combat system, nor do they tend to enjoy FFA PvP with full loot.
Your standard PvP loving lunatics generally doesn't enjoy massive amounts of PvE grind required to advance in PvP. Nor do they want some unsurmountable advantage over others because that just kills the challenge.
AV has taken and made a game that turns off both RPG progression enthusists and PvP lovers alike creating a game that is basically killing itself. It would take some major changes at the core level at this point to appease both groups.
At this point in time their best bet is to simply try and appease one or the other and unless they are willing to do away with FFA PvP and full loot they are probably better off trying to appeal to PvP'rs.
Both groups can exist in the same game.... thats already been proven. DFO will either have to make core design changes to appeal to both groups or it will have to pick one or the other.
Problem there is that it's a short term fix. Every new player that joins the game for the PvP is now faced with almost everyone being at 100 skill cap. Which deters growth.