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Of all the games I was excited to try out at Eurogamer Expo, Star Wars: The Old Republic was definit

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  • pedrostrikpedrostrik Member UncommonPosts: 396

    After watching some new gameplay and pvp videos i feel the same as OP , only meh..
    even vindictus offers a better gameplay mechanics, i hope the story is really good but i think i will join only for first month cause dumb per-Neanderthal gameplay such as in wow , its not for me.

  • IsturiIsturi Member Posts: 1,509

    WOW I am impressed a person who professionally blogs wants to criticize TOR since he had to wait in a long line and only have Ten mins of game time?? LMAO He sounds like he should of been treated like the Emperor and had a private PC with all day access to TOR go figure.

    image

  • Biggus99Biggus99 Member Posts: 916

    Originally posted by blueturtle13

    Originally posted by MattDaddy10

    I hope this game turns out better than some of the MMOs that have launched in the past 2 years that I unfortunately spent money on such as Star Trek Online and DC Universe Online. RIFT is great though. I love Star Wars and BioWare games but I am a little leery of buying this and having it flop. Oh well, here we go!!!!!!! Everybody in the deep end!

     Even though they made my fav game of all time I am not a bioware fan anymore but the issue I have with this game is that they already had a sw mmo and they didnt get the money out of it they had hoped. So they pulled in Bioware to remake the sw franchise in the mmo space. If it fails to live up to their goals are they going to gut this game and run it into the ground and start yet another one? Maybe the interest in a sw mmo is not quite as great as the fan base thinks? regardless I hope it is not fail. If it is and they spent so much making it then other companies moving forward will be nervous about investing in a high profile game in the future I may WANT to play.

     

    Well, if I'm not mistaken, SWG at it's height of popularity had something like 400k subscribers, and that was for a game that was very buggy and grindy.  Not to mention, it was a sandbox game with a steep learning curve.  Those types of games, for better or worse, aren't as popular as the themepark models due to the majority of people preferring ease of gameplay.  BioWare has said that 500k subsriptions is what this game needs at any one time to be making money.  If SWG had 400K when it was in a pretty flawed state (pre-NGE, but at a time when the game had a lot of bugs), then it's pretty safe to assume the Star Wars fans do carry quite a bit of weight.  And it's pretty safe to say that BioWare should be able to get the extra 100K subscriptions beyond what SWG got at the very minimum.  We'll see, though.  There does seem to be much more backlash towards standard themepark MMOs these days, at least publicly, than there was 5 years ago.  People do want something new and innovative, so maybe SWTOR will see some backlash from that.  But you have to think the odds of success are in their favor, at least in the short term.  How they retain their subscribers through enddame content will be the key for longterm success.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404

    10 minutes of gameplay can hardly be enough because soemtimes a game does not show any depth at so little time. I will give this review the same weight ten mins does.

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  • NyphurNyphur Member Posts: 74

    Please don't copy-paste entire sections of my articles onto the forums, a link is sufficient.

    Insert signature that doesn't break the rules here

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340

    Originally posted by DLangley

    Just a reminder : NDA has not been lifted for SWTOR. You can say you are in beta, but absolutely nothing else.

    This is what is confusing. Selling boxes hyping the game and no one can really say anthing. Sorry this is just not right at all. Reminds me of several hyped to the hevens games that were rather dissappointing.

    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by ArChWind

    Originally posted by DLangley

    Just a reminder : NDA has not been lifted for SWTOR. You can say you are in beta, but absolutely nothing else.

    This is what is confusing. Selling boxes hyping the game and no one can really say anthing. Sorry this is just not right at all. Reminds me of several hyped to the hevens games that were rather dissappointing.

    NDA's serve their purpose, when stuff is ready for primetime it will be lifted.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • smob561smob561 Member UncommonPosts: 2

    since u say that then lets point out the facts....WoW is a clone of Ultima online....lets not forget EverQuest....jesus WoW fanboys are the worst...u guys think any MMO is a WoW clone....the only game ive come across that can be labeled a WoW clone is Runes of Magic.....

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  • Biggus99Biggus99 Member Posts: 916

    Originally posted by Nyphur

    Please don't copy-paste entire sections of my articles onto the forums, a link is sufficient.

     

    Well, it could be worse.  He could have just read your very first sentence and then did a critique of your entire article based only on what he read in that one sentence.  Then again, that would be amateurish, right?

     

     

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158

    Originally posted by blueturtle13

    Originally posted by Biggus99


    Originally posted by blueturtle13


    Originally posted by MattDaddy10

    I hope this game turns out better than some of the MMOs that have launched in the past 2 years that I unfortunately spent money on such as Star Trek Online and DC Universe Online. RIFT is great though. I love Star Wars and BioWare games but I am a little leery of buying this and having it flop. Oh well, here we go!!!!!!! Everybody in the deep end!

     Even though they made my fav game of all time I am not a bioware fan anymore but the issue I have with this game is that they already had a sw mmo and they didnt get the money out of it they had hoped. So they pulled in Bioware to remake the sw franchise in the mmo space. If it fails to live up to their goals are they going to gut this game and run it into the ground and start yet another one? Maybe the interest in a sw mmo is not quite as great as the fan base thinks? regardless I hope it is not fail. If it is and they spent so much making it then other companies moving forward will be nervous about investing in a high profile game in the future I may WANT to play.

     

    Well, if I'm not mistaken, SWG at it's height of popularity had something like 400k subscribers, and that was for a game that was very buggy and grindy.  Not to mention, it was a sandbox game with a steep learning curve.  Those types of games, for better or worse, aren't as popular as the themepark models due to the majority of people preferring ease of gameplay.  BioWare has said that 500k subsriptions is what this game needs at any one time to be making money.  If SWG had 400K when it was in a pretty flawed state (pre-NGE, but at a time when the game had a lot of bugs), then it's pretty safe to assume the Star Wars fans do carry quite a bit of weight.  And it's pretty safe to say that BioWare should be able to get the extra 100K subscriptions beyond what SWG got at the very minimum.  We'll see, though.  There does seem to be much more backlash towards standard themepark MMOs these days, at least publicly, than there was 5 years ago.  People do want something new and innovative, so maybe SWTOR will see some backlash from that.  But you have to think the odds of success are in their favor, at least in the short term.  How they retain their subscribers through enddame content will be the key for longterm success.

     I recall that as well but the mmo landscape from 2003 and 2011-2012 are totally different. Point is SW fans are diehards and I respect that but The diehard fansdont all play mmo's either. Hell even video games for that matter. I think 500k is a reasonable number to expect for their subs. It will allow them to remain in a profitable business model and provide funding for future DLC, I mean, expansions. I think SW should have stayed a sandbox type game and Bioware is not the developer for that kind of game. Perhaps Bethesda for that? Anyways I wish Bio had just done a Mass Effect MMO. I think it would do much better than SW.  SW IP's have a great out of the package burst in sales and thats it.

    According to VGChartz (Yes, not exactly a great source) TOR currently has around 450-500k Pre-Orders in America alone.

    I'd also bet that BioWare will know how to keep hold of a lot of players. An IP alone will never have any holding power, its all in the developers hands. 

    Also...KOTOR >>>> ME. 

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  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431
    So someone who likes twitch based combat didn't like a themepark games combat. Is that a surprise? And someone who looks to be a click accept kill type didn't like story based cutsceans with VO. Are we surprised again? It is very simple. If you want to experience the game, you should already be signed up for beta. Just about everyone will get a chance before launch that is signed up. Or wait till launch for reviews. No reason for everyone to be foaming at the mouth for or against. Take everything as a grain of salt if you didn't test yourself. Other than the fact that this will be a themepark game following the usual model with their own ideas and features added or changed.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    I originally wasn't going to post in this thread but i've got nothing else better to do.

    First off i want to state that the atricle is based on an impression (thats the creators words not mine) so he is entitled to it.

    I will also point out this isn't a common opinion amongst the majority.

    Also the creator states that they got 10 mins of playtime. 

    If i know questing like i do. This is probably how it ran down

    Min 1: basic start up, looking at the pre-made characters and loading into the game.

    Min 2 and 3: Talking to the quest npc

    Min 4 and 5: running to the required mob

    Min 6 and 7: Killing the mob.

    Min 8: Running back to the quest NPC

    Min 9 and 10: turning in the quest.

    So if my basic run down is right. He got to play one quest in a starter zone. If we know MMOs the starting quest usually starts off slow with limited abilities.

    Now Bioware has also stated that some attacks would be able to be placed on the ground and fired off without needing a target.

    I will just say it's his opinion on immersiveness but i disagree with it based on what i got to play. Disclaimer No i'm not in beta :) wish i was though.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

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  • NyphurNyphur Member Posts: 74

    Originally posted by artemisentr4

    So someone who likes twitch based combat didn't like a themepark games combat. Is that a surprise? And someone who looks to be a click accept kill type didn't like story based cutsceans with VO. Are we surprised again? It is very simple. If you want to experience the game, you should already be signed up for beta. Just about everyone will get a chance before launch that is signed up. Or wait till launch for reviews. No reason for everyone to be foaming at the mouth for or against. Take everything as a grain of salt if you didn't test yourself. Other than the fact that this will be a themepark game following the usual model with their own ideas and features added or changed.

    Agreed. Opinions seem to vary wildly on SWTOR, and the only way to know for sure if you'll like the game is to get into the beta and see for yourself.

    Insert signature that doesn't break the rules here

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower Member Posts: 1,245

    Originally posted by vesavius

    From Brendan Drain @ Massively;

     

    Of all the games I was excited to try out at Eurogamer Expo, Star Wars: The Old Republic was definitely the most disappointing. This was supposed to be a big week for fans of the upcoming title, with a firm release date announced during the expo's BioWare talk and a hands-on demo for attendees. But I found myself struggling to unearth both new information on the game and the motivation to lodge a pre-order. The queues to demo SWTOR were understandably long, and with only a handful of PCs at the demo table, players were limited to around 10 minutes of gameplay.



    Testers were presented with a set of new pre-made characters, one of each class at the start of the tutorial story arc. When I figured out how to get into character creation, a nervous employee quickly canceled the process and informed me that I had to use one of the pre-made characters. Considering that the game is due for launch in just three months, I found the fact that character creation isn't ready to show to the public was more than a little worrying.



    More of the same



    While some players did get a chance to join an arranged PvP warzone match, most were given access only to the tutorial area. The fully voiced storyline at the start was a nice touch that brought some initial immersion, but I felt as though my responses to the chat didn't really make a difference. Surely I was going to be given the same quest to proceed with the tutorial regardless of dialogue choices. The occasional voiced chat with quest NPCs was great, but the feeling of being immersed in a story within the Star Wars universe always seemed to fade once the conversation ended and I went off to kill 10 space-rats.



    I found myself invariably falling back into the same old MMO pattern of checking quest objectives and killing lists of monsters, which provided a comfortable familiarity at the cost of immersive gameplay. The difference in immersion between the story portions and the traditional MMO gameplay was so large that the game felt like a Star Wars-themed World of Warcraft punctuated all too rarely rarely with BioWare's typically high-quality storyline. It's possible that the tutorial area doesn't really do justice to the story and fully voiced dialogue at the core of SWTOR. If that's the case, though, then BioWare missed a massive opportunity at Eurogamer Expo to showcase the parts of the game that would impress people most.



    Gameplay and controls



    The biggest gripe I had with the game was with swordplay and force powers, which have been shoehorned into a classic MMO spell system. To perform sword attacks, I had to click an enemy, get into melee range and press number keys repeatedly just as I would in World of Warcraft. I can understand developers wanting to keep controls familiar to ease the transitions of those willing to switch games, but even as a long-time MMO junkie and WoW player, I still found the controls clumsy. While I didn't necessarily expect BioWare to innovate on basic MMO gameplay, the controls didn't really feel right given the game setting.



    The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility. Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting. Guild Wars 2, for example, has a large array of aimed abilities and real twitch-based evasion mechanics. The fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't do something similar for lightsaber combat and force powers is almost baffling.



    Final thoughts



    Given how much money is being thrown at Star Wars: The Old Republic, I was genuinely surprised that BioWare had stuck with the WoW gameplay model down to the last detail, even when it didn't work very well or suit the setting. If all you're looking for is a new Star Wars-themed MMO with familiar gameplay, then SWTOR is sure to be a big hit with you. I personally left the demo at Eurogamer Expo distinctly underwhelmed and a little bit disappointed.



     

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/10/01/mmo-impressions-from-eurogamer-expo-2011-part-2/

     

     

     

     

    But from first announcement years ago Bioware made it clear it would be similar MMO to WoW and easy accesable themepark for casuals so why your so surpprise?

  • channel84channel84 Member UncommonPosts: 585

    After all the video and impression i get, the only thing slightly nudging me toward ToR is whether i would like to play kotor 3 and not because of the multiplayer aspect of it. But then again this is suppose to be a mmo with boring quest(compare to single player game) and tier gear raid grind. Thus for now i'll have to pass on this 1. Kudos to those that find enjoyment from this game.

    Btw on topic of this article posted by OP, i find it odd to only allow 10minute of gameplay at the expo as compare to gw2's 40minute. Can't help but think that they're trying to wow the tester with dialog and cinematic rather than impress them with the actual gameplay and mechanic. I mean come on, can't they provide more pc and game time if it'll boost their potential sales?

  • tyrannistyrannis Member Posts: 198

     


    This post is so full of holes I'm not sure were to start. First let me say I have not pre-ordered but I'm sure I will pick it up being a Star Wars fan and everything that I've read and seen is of a quality that suites my requirements.  Brendan's post is so full of Personal rants and BS.


     


    1. Game play testing setup


     


    Nice of you to make assumptions about it the character creation being ready or not. These demos are setup to show a specific portion of the game based on whatever they want to show at the time. That may or may not include charter creation, even if it is or isn't finished. What you're unhappy with is not getting to do what you wanted.


     


    2. More of the same


     


    Perhaps you should study up on the games you are going to write about more deeply. Bioware has made not claims to reinventing the MMO wheel for SWTOR. They openly follow the wow modle of taking what works and using it, making any improvments they can along the way. So if you thought you weren't going to be killing shit or finding shit for a quest then I'd like to know what you did expect as you never mentioned that. Also, many quests have separate endings based on chose. It's not ever quest because that would be ridicules.


     


    3. Game play and controls


     


    The controls didn't feel right based on the setting? Really, you mean the tried and true controls that we use for many games, probably perfected to some degree by wow 'borrowing on every game before it" didn't suit you huh? This is just space to fill your article. You say you didn't expect them to reinvent the system, or maybe you did and expected Jedi Mind Control instead of auto-attack, click to target and WASD.


     


     


    ******The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility.******


     


    What fantasy world do you live in? FFXIV? The "select-and-cast ability targeting system" as you call it has absolutely nothing to do with technical or financial reasons. If you think Bioware isn't using the latest and greatest server technology "which you clearly no nothing about" then you're nuts. They ar using this method of game play because it works and it's what people are comfortable with. GW2 uses the same method, the only difference and I'm very excited about it is the way spells and attacks change based on spec and weapon equipped. Very forward thinking and exciting. 


     


     


    It seems you will be enjoying GW2 or SWTOR. I personally will be enjoying them both.

    ##Best SWTOR of 2011
    Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"

    ##Fail Thread Title of 2011
    Originally posted by daveospice
    "this game looks like crap?"

  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317

    It sure looks to me like the author didn't have a good experience on getting to demo the game, but really doesn't have anything that actually is a problem with the game, just his experience.  He should have titled it " I didn't get to demo SWTOR the way I wanted to, so now I'm disappointed"

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

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  • mrw0lfmrw0lf Member Posts: 2,269

    When partaking in a 15/20 min play test it's tricky to judge immerssion I watched the many of the those sitting down rushing through as much as they could to get to something new it was odd tbh. Which leads me to another point, I haven't played the game, I decided I would never beta or playtest a game I intended to play again, despite this I could pretty much inch for inch tell you the whole tutorial levels.

    For a game still under NDA I have never seen such a prolific leak, you can even start min/maxing your char if you want with all the info released.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158

    Originally posted by channel84

    After all the video and impression i get, the only thing slightly nudging me toward ToR is whether i would like to play kotor 3 and not because of the multiplayer aspect of it. But then again this is suppose to be a mmo with boring quest(compare to single player game) and tier gear raid grind. Thus for now i'll have to pass on this 1. Kudos to those that find enjoyment from this game.

    Btw on topic of this article posted by OP, i find it odd to only allow 10minute of gameplay at the expo as compare to gw2's 40minute. Can't help but think that they're trying to wow the tester with dialog and cinematic rather than impress them with the actual gameplay and mechanic. I mean come on, can't they provide more pc and game time if it'll boost their potential sales?

    Story quests are pretty similar to BW's SP quests. 

    Also they have allowed very different amount of times for people. Some got a whole weekend to play it, some had 45mins and some have had 10. I don't know what GW2 was like at the expo but I've heard TOR queue's are generally much larger than GW2's (Don't start something please) and they need to cut down on time to allow everyone a chance.

  • Biggus99Biggus99 Member Posts: 916

    Originally posted by channel84

    After all the video and impression i get, the only thing slightly nudging me toward ToR is whether i would like to play kotor 3 and not because of the multiplayer aspect of it. But then again this is suppose to be a mmo with boring quest(compare to single player game) and tier gear raid grind. Thus for now i'll have to pass on this 1. Kudos to those that find enjoyment from this game.

    Btw on topic of this article posted by OP, i find it odd to only allow 10minute of gameplay at the expo as compare to gw2's 40minute. Can't help but think that they're trying to wow the tester with dialog and cinematic rather than impress them with the actual gameplay and mechanic. I mean come on, can't they provide more pc and game time if it'll boost their potential sales?

     

    Or maybe the demand for the SWTOR demo is so much greater than other games that they need to limit the amount of time alloted so as many people as possible get a chance to test it out?

     

     

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Pretty much just a box sale for me. Burn through the "amazing" story quests, begin raiding, quit game.

    Dat clone.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,814

    Originally posted by smob561

    since u say that then lets point out the facts....WoW is a clone of Ultima online....lets not forget EverQuest....jesus WoW fanboys are the worst...u guys think any MMO is a WoW clone....the only game ive come across that can be labeled a WoW clone is Runes of Magic.....

    Those guys actually did a good job making RoM imo.

    What was it, 3-4 guys who love MMOs took the best part of their favorite MMO features and pack it into one game and BAM you got RoM.

    Yeah, yeah, Frogster F2P. But whatever, of all the F2P MMOs out there they have a large following.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Brendan Drain:

    The queues to demo SWTOR were understandably long, and with only a handful of PCs at the demo table, players were limited to around 10 minutes of gameplay


    When I figured out how to get into character creation, a nervous employee quickly canceled the process and informed me that I had to use one of the pre-made characters.


    So he got ten minutes to test a game for review and spent how many of those trying to figure out how to get into the character creation screen...


    Something doesn't smell quite right. Thank God I don't listen to swagsniffers from conventions :)


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