Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

For real?

2456789

Comments

  • LidaneLidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

    Just once, I'd love for the people who offer detailed lists of features that "should" be in an MMO at launch to offer an actual project plan to get all those features in AT THE SAME TIME that you also design, plan, build, and get an entire game up and running.

    If you're so sure that all of these features can go in at launch, then prove it. Design a complete plan to develop a game with all of those features in at launch, with a finite budget and a clearly defined schedule. That's what real developers have to do, so why not?

     

  • PainlezzPainlezz Member UncommonPosts: 646

    Did i just read a response where someone said flying mounts are not "star wars" material?  El Oh El?

     

  • allegriaallegria Member CommonPosts: 682

    Originally posted by Lidane

    Just once, I'd love for the people who offer detailed lists of features that "should" be in an MMO at launch to offer an actual project plan to get all those features in AT THE SAME TIME that you also design, plan, build, and get an entire game up and running.

    If you're so sure that all of these features can go in at launch, then prove it. Design a complete plan to develop a game with all of those features in at launch, with a finite budget and a clearly defined schedule. That's what real developers have to do, so why not?

     

    RIFT did pretty well covering most of the common features of MMOs at release.

    Games are different and Bioware pull all their eggs in one basket at the expense of many other things people expect from an MMO.

    You can't do it all as you seemed to allude to but I think poeple expected more "std mmo features" than they got. At some point I am sure TOR will have all of that or most.

  • insanejoshinsanejosh Member Posts: 26

    Originally posted by Mellkor

     

    Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:

     


    1. Swimming - Who really Cares? If I wanted swimming I would go to the beach or jump in the pool.

    2. Third party addons - Keep on Crying - with no addons it actually makes you pay attention to the game instead of a box. I actually love there is no addons. It seperates the real gamers from the nubs

    3. Minigames like card games or slot gamers - If you are that bored go read a book.

    4. Dual spec - There is no need for this.

    5. Day/night cycles - Look out your window

    6. Non humanoid based playable races - Because everyone wants to play a droid?

    7. Planetary housing -  This isn't SWG

    8. Housing furnishing - This is not SWG

    9. Animal based pet classes - Go Play WOW

    10. Resources for crafting that do have quality - Not even going to comment

    11. Complex crafting system - The kiddies can't get most crafting systems now. It will never be difficult. People will just cry

    12. Guild leveling system - Go play WoW

    13. Animal mounts - Go Play WoW

    14. Flying mounts - Go Play WoW

    15. PvP Arenas - Go Play WoW

    16. Collision detection between characters - Yes because I want to run around every person I see on the fleet.

    17. Macros

    18. Barber / Image Designer - This is not SWG

    19. Appearance tabs - Holy batman an actually real Idea. But, will never happen

    20. Fishing - Nobody likes doing this in any other MMO. Why continue with such a useless skill. I would rather do the real thing.

    21. Guild "Tabard" - Go Play WoW

    22. Multiplayer mounts - Because the 'follow' command is so hard to use

    23. Gear Dyes - Eh, Wont happen

    24. Shared storage bank slots - Won't Happen

    25. In game voice chat - Why so I can listen to the 10 yr olds?

    26. LFG tool - Ruined WoW. NO TY

    27. Guild bank - OMGAD another ok idea

    28. Incentives for socialization - you quest faster if you group up. How is that not incentive?

    29. Character extended body customization - Um no

    30. 3 Factions RvR - I'm tired of commenting

    31. Wolrd PvP - How about actually fight on Ilum instead of just turning the point. Oh hey thats right you just want to finish your daily.

    32. RPG tools - This isnt SWG

    33. Underwater content - Everyone I know skipped the WoW area with this. So no

    34. 3d exploration - Not enough people use this. Why waste time and resources

    Really? Every one of these threads i read sound like people just want world of warcraft...


     


    The highlighted red text in my opionion either has


    1. No place in a starwars universe


    2. Sounds like it should be there just because wow has it.


     


    Fully Support the Implementation of the green text,


     

     

     

  • InFaVillaInFaVilla Member Posts: 592

    I think the consensus is: if you are going to clone something, then make sure to clone it properly and not just do a halfassed beta clone version. EA and Bioware had both the time and the money.

     

    Also, I think the correct word is probably not "innovation", but "variation". The MMORPG AAA genre has for a too long time lacked both variation and innovation. While innovation would be nice, significant variation is admirable as well; unfortunely, SWTOR lives up to neither.

  • 69Cuda69Cuda Member Posts: 251

    No intention of entering the debate of whats innovative etc but I do have a question.

     

    What is the fascination with the water content? Who gives a rats ass about swimming / fishing or underwater combat in a game designed around the precept of being set in ......outerspace?

     

     All I keep picturing is Han Solo in a spacesuit with rubber fish floating around about 50 meters off the hull of the Millenium Falcon while he is trying in vain to "cast" the line out. I mean yeah I guess that coulda been innovative.

    I mean it sounds like EvE players complaining about flying mounts.

     

    Makes 0 sense to me.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Deewe


    Originally posted by dubyahite
    You said "now about innovation" and then liste a bunch of things everyone else does. I don't think you guys know what you mean when you say innovation anymore.

    Exactly, how come they can pretend innovating if they don't even have at least the basics from others MMO?
     
    Example: not having day/night cycles isn't a good innovation.
    What would be great is to have and them and top them with: seasons and changing world.

    You are not getting the point, are you...?

  • DredphyreDredphyre Member Posts: 601

    Originally posted by Raora

    I would like to know which games that came out in the last 10 years or so had ALL (34) of these in game at launch. THEN we can compare apple to apples and not to oranges

    ^this.

     

    I was reading through his list and I soon realized that almost 90% of those features were added to MMOs after launch. It bespeaks a very serious lack of context even to create this list.

  • rymanryman Member Posts: 227

    Originally posted by Dredphyre

    Originally posted by Raora

    I would like to know which games that came out in the last 10 years or so had ALL (34) of these in game at launch. THEN we can compare apple to apples and not to oranges

    ^this.

     

    I was reading through his list and I soon realized that almost 90% of those features were added to MMOs after launch. It bespeaks a very serious lack of context even to create this list.

    Then why play this game when one already exist with those features? The developers need to step up their game and either give all features that already exist in MMOs today and then some, or just completely innovate on their own terms. Missing generic features for a generic clone is not innovation. Bioware had more money spent on this game than World Of Warcraft by far (not to mention experience gained), yet they fail to even compensate for the most basic features of your generic theme park WoW clone.

    The genre is like it should be:

    (A) You got money to pull off an exact clone of World Of Warcraft features, and then some.

    OR

    (B) You innovate so you can avoid scenario (A).

     

    Bioware chose A and failed to deliver. Now we're seeing the results.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member RarePosts: 3,655

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    You said "now about innovation" and then liste a bunch of things everyone else does. I don't think you guys know what you mean when you say innovation anymore.

    Exactly, how come they can pretend innovating if they don't even have at least the basics from others MMO?

     

    Example: not having day/night cycles isn't a good innovation.

    What would be great is to have and them and top them with: seasons and changing world.

    You said exactly but then went on to say things that don't focus on the point you are trying to make...

    They DID do innovating things, and they made design choices to not do things the way other games do them, that itself is innovation. 

    Day/Night cycle is not innovating, everyone does that, it was a design choice to not include it as it would be annoying to have to deal wtih different planets having differing day night cycles and yada yadah, it seems like something that no one even misses.  Most of the things you list off are things people won't miss and or are just flat out design choices. 

    It seems like a lot of people don't understand that you can't make game to have every aspect of every design feature so everyone is happy.

    Oh and the crafting is innovative, as it is unique and different.

    Arg. :-s

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek Member UncommonPosts: 1,258


    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Oh and the crafting is innovative, as it is unique and different.
    Arg. :-s

    The only thing that's innovative about crafting is that you don't do it.

    image
  • eugameugam Member UncommonPosts: 984

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    You said "now about innovation" and then liste a bunch of things everyone else does. I don't think you guys know what you mean when you say innovation anymore.

    Well said :)

     

    Half of the list is innovative actually. Because at a certain point retro is innovative :)

     

    As long as they keep 3rd party stuff and log off Bio is on the light side of force.

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    Originally posted by EvilGeek

     




    Originally posted by Laughing-man



    Oh and the crafting is innovative, as it is unique and different.

    Arg. :-s






    The only thing that's innovative about crafting is that you don't do it.

     

    No need to be unfair, the crafting system is indeed one of the highlights of an otherwise mediocre MMO. The personal storyline is the main highlight.

  • BarakIIIBarakIII Member Posts: 800

    Originally posted by tank017

    I find it humorous that Ohlson said that."We knew there would be people out there that would want ToR to fail"......or maybe they wanted it to do well so badly,but the game ultimately let them down in the end?....I dunno,just a thought..

    All you have to do is go back and look at the threads in these forums to know that what he said was true. People have wanted this game to fail for a multitude of reasons anywhere from it's not a sandbox to they believe it somehow competes with their favorite MMO or upcoming MMO. Heck, there are a lot of people who want it to fail simply because it's an EA game and they hate all things EA.

  • Matticus75Matticus75 Member UncommonPosts: 396

    Nothing on the Op list is innovative, its all been done before

     

    Innovative is somthing new, I dont see what the problem is such as beining able to fly your ship from the planet surface to space with no instancing. So stating that it will cause such stress on the servers, we dont have the tech to do it  or  that it cant be done, blah blah blah, is a load of garbage

     

    Common look at this game, Galactic Command online (its on MMORPG) granted the game is low budget, it does it....

     

    Their are many other examples, games like battlezone and Battlezone 2 were a RTS/FPS game that was combining genres. What the problem with adding more that into a MMO?

    What do we get, a new and improved wow clone! Granted I do play it, and its fun, and im subbing....Buts its not "Great"

     

    What I think it really is, is that companies can do this kind of "really blow your socks off" innovation, but its all about cost vs profit. why do anything new when you dont have to? its not like the game companies are trying to out innovate each other

     

    Just like music and movies, Same old things just varaiations of R&B, Rock, ect

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek Member UncommonPosts: 1,258


    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Originally posted by EvilGeek
     


    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Oh and the crafting is innovative, as it is unique and different.
    Arg. :-s


    The only thing that's innovative about crafting is that you don't do it.
     


    No need to be unfair, the crafting system is indeed one of the highlights of an otherwise mediocre MMO. The personal storyline is the main highlight.

    I don't think I am being unfair, another thing I don't like about the system is Bioware seems to have ignored the importance of downtime activities, if you're bored of combat there is nothing else to do unless you want to stand somewhere sending your companions off and wait, while you do nothing. It's a pure RNG system, you can replace the missions with a roll of a dice and have the same effect, innovative? no unique yes.

    Cantinas have nothing in them to encourage social activities either, you can't even sit on the chairs.

    image
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,094

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:

     


    1. Swimming

    2. Third party addons

    3. Minigames like card games or slot gamers

    4. Dual spec

    5. Day/night cycles

    6. Non humanoid based playable races

    7. Planetary housing

    8. Housing furnishing

    9. Animal based pet classes

    10. Resources for crafting that do have quality

    11. Complex crafting system

    12. Guild leveling system

    13. Animal mounts

    14. Flying mounts

    15. PvP Arenas

    16. Collision detection between characters

    17. Macros

    18. Barber / Image Designer

    19. Appearance tabs

    20. Fishing

    21. Guild "Tabard"

    22. Multiplayer mounts

    23. Gear Dyes

    24. Shared storage bank slots

    25. In game voice chat

    26. LFG tool

    27. Guild bank

    28. Incentives for socialization

    29. Character extended body customization

    30. 3 Factions RvR

    31. Wolrd PvP

    32. RPG tools

    33. Underwater content

    34. 3d exploration

     


    1. Meh ... okay, would be nice, but not a dealbreaker.

    2. Thank god not.

    3. You really dont need a MMO to play minigames ...

    4. Thats a "feature" to you ???????? Thats how you may, or may not, design a rulesystem. Nothing you can add to an existing rulesystem. SWTOR will never have it, because thats not how the rulesystem works. Personally, I also dont like that idea much - it doesnt make much sense in the first place.

    5. Meh. I really dont need that one.

    6. Meh. I would have been perfectly happy with only humans. I already got Twi'leks, too. Dont care much about the rest.

    7. Yeah. Or more precisely: housing at all. All we get is a predefined Starship.

    8. Without housing there cant be housing furniture ... not a big surprise. Also, thats rather a decorative feature.

    9. Everyone is a pet class in SWTOR, also animal pet classes arent very Star Wars-y.

    10. Yeah.

    11. Yeah.

    12. Meh. Why do guilds need a level ? I've only seen that one in asian games.

    13. Meh.

    14. We get STARSHIPS.

    15. Will probably be added later.

    16. Thank got not.

    17. Are they needed ?

    18. Guess that will be added later.

    19. Meh.

    20. Ugh.

    21. ??

    22. ???

    23. Meh.

    24. Meh.

    25. There are universal solutions to that and personally I prefer that.

    26. Hopefully added later.

    27. Yeah that would be nice

    28. ???

    29. Would be nice.

    30. Well ... not likely now.

    31. Yeah.

    32. ???

    33. Without swimming, that wont happen ...

    34. Now whats that supposed to be.
  • Matticus75Matticus75 Member UncommonPosts: 396

    Originally posted by EvilGeek

     




    Originally posted by Xasapis





    Originally posted by EvilGeek

     








    Originally posted by Laughing-man



    Oh and the crafting is innovative, as it is unique and different.

    Arg. :-s










    The only thing that's innovative about crafting is that you don't do it.

     






    No need to be unfair, the crafting system is indeed one of the highlights of an otherwise mediocre MMO. The personal storyline is the main highlight.



     

    I don't think I am being unfair, another thing I don't like about the system is Bioware seems to have ignored the importance of downtime activities, if you're bored of combat there is nothing else to do unless you want to stand somewhere sending your companions off and wait, while you do nothing. It's a pure RNG system, you can replace the missions with a roll of a dice and have the same effect, innovative? no unique yes.

    Cantinas have nothing in them to encourage social activities either, you can't even sit on the chairs.

    Again like in my pervious post, I dont see why you cant have a core Themepark, and seed game with tons of open world planets, just places where players can sandpark why not do both in one game, must be really hard to do!

  • eugameugam Member UncommonPosts: 984

    Collision detection would be a real feature. Its CPU and development heavy, thats why most DEVs dont use it anymore. But anyone who ever played a mmo with detection knows it rules. Even the light odf the swords have collison, why not life forms ?

     

    Barber and appearance tab sould be on the list on day one of development of any game.

     

    My companion is not sitting with me in the taxi or with me on the hoverbike/scooter. Not a big thing, but makes me think the devs are just employees and dont care really.

     

    Scooters use anti-gravity.  Luke's landspeeder keeps hovering, even with stopped engines. Still you ll hurt/kill yourself driving over a cliff. Doesnt have to fly, but glide. Little rocks are able to stop a scooter but you cant hurt yourself when driving full speed against a wall. But a Jedi is hurt when jumping down from a wall. My brain cant buy this...

     

    The whole game neglects details everywhere.  Doesnt have to be a sandbox, but should not feel like any other video game. Putting emphasis on VO and neglecting immersion. Really a bit loveless production it seems.

     

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    What you describe as immersion killers for you are not as severe as having to look as the robes of my sith sorceror armor go all the way through the 110% bike and touch the floor. The armor clipping in this game is simply absurd. Sigh, and I remember being annoyed by some of the female hair styles in Aion, while this is tons worse.

  • NaucanoNaucano Member UncommonPosts: 80

    Well, I saw this one comming. This is what you get with "hypes". The exagerations always backfires.

    There is no denying someone at Bioware is getting a bit stressed. The first subscriptions are in, but new sales are not at the same rate and seem rather been dropping. They will have to start "building" the game now. Which proves once more that it is not at launch MMO's are been accepted or not. Every other game has faced the same music and even after initial delivery, you will have to take care, as Sony learned with SWG.

    All these comparisons with other games and unargumented debates about whether it is better or not, smooth launch or not is quite redundant.

    Fact is, we are used to certain features, and the OP sums them all up. Whether you like those ideas, mechanics, features is an entirely personal view. You can all discuss it till doomsday for all you want, nobody will budge a step from his own likings. But regardless if you want to see them in SWTOR, they are what we are got used to. Some of the things he mentioned are been dealed with by BW,  and it is just a matter of wait and see. For the others, well ... it is their game.

    Other then that the OP's reaction on the saying "SWTOR is innovative"  is quite right. I don't know though if they are in denial, because they would have been in 2008, or even 2005 date when they purchased the engine.

    I think the sad thing here is that more and more copanies, and not only Bioware, are unable, unwilling to let loose of the exageration of advertising and marketing techniques.

    By innovation we know by know they are talking -mainly- about the way the game is story-driven. That has always been their incantation from day one. Anything else is some vague ideas, such as updated instance system, pet system, etc, etc. ... which does not cut any wood, but is nice if it works.

    I think mainly what this thread is saying, in general, that we rather have a company, CEO, developper stating something about their product in a more realistic honest way.

    Honest good products don't need a hype to be succesfull

    Rated M for Mature - May contain content inappropriate for children

  • RamsaltRamsalt Member Posts: 20

    Originally posted by Deewe

     

    • Swimming

    • Third party addons

    • Minigames like card games or slot gamers

    • Dual spec

    • Day/night cycles

    • Non humanoid based playable races

    • Planetary housing

    • Housing furnishing

    • Animal based pet classes

    • Resources for crafting that do have quality

    • Complex crafting system

    • Guild leveling system

    • Animal mounts

    • Flying mounts

    • PvP Arenas

    • Collision detection between characters

    • Macros

    • Barber / Image Designer

    • Appearance tabs

    • Fishing

    • Guild "Tabard"

    • Multiplayer mounts

    • Gear Dyes

    • Shared storage bank slots

    • In game voice chat

    • LFG tool

    • Guild bank

    • Incentives for socialization

    • Character extended body customization

    • 3 Factions RvR

    • Wolrd PvP

    • RPG tools

    • Underwater content

    • 3d exploration



     

     

    They are innovative! They left all this out for one, very innovative! They even added like, retro graphics and stuff. Very niiiice, were like back in the 90's again! And that tunnel shooter they have, just great , feels like im back at the arcade as a wee kid. The story is very innovative too,  i have totaly not seen anything like that before and i can click buttons. VERY NICE. Best part of it: voiceover and cutscenes. Aaawsome dont need to read anything anymore. Mission are innovative to because of  cutscenes and VO. It does not feel at all like im having to fetch 10 rattails and kill 10 pigs because of VO and Cutscene NOT AT ALL!

    SOoooooo innovative! IM Like going to sub like 4evah!!111111

    No as a matter of  fact, just no...

    [quote]"We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. [/quote]

    He's like

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Member Posts: 976

    [mod edit].

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,094

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    You said "now about innovation" and then liste a bunch of things everyone else does. I don't think you guys know what you mean when you say innovation anymore.

    QFT

     


    Originally posted by eugam

    Collision detection would be a real feature. Its CPU and development heavy, thats why most DEVs dont use it anymore.

    Collision detection isnt that expensive ... it just causes a lot of secondary problems, such as people AFK in a door and blocking the entrance for everyone else.

     


    Originally posted by eugam

    Barber and appearance tab sould be on the list on day one of development of any game.

    Barber is OK.

    Appearance tab is icky. I rather have beautiful designs in the first place. Or the ability to redesign armor into other appearances. Or the ability to "upgrade" armor you like.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls Member Posts: 2,951

    [mod edit]

Sign In or Register to comment.