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How will TESO fair among rival MMORPG's?

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  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think TESO has split it's fan base, it is Elder Scrolls but it is not  the freedom of the singleplayer games in respect to the player experience and skill building. This has turned off some of their fans. I think it will be successful but I don't think it will be blowing the doors off the joint.

     

    Interview with Dev Nick Konkle.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mHQNA45js

    1:29:40    What would you say to a guy like this Developer Nick?

     

     

    FREEDOM YOU ASK?

     

    PROOF OF NON-LINER GAMEPLAY!!!   OPEN WORLD RPG!!!!

     

     

    Post #124

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/comment-page-13

    How long would you say the main storyline be?

    Very hard question to answer in all fairness. It spans multiple levels, so it really depends on the player. If you could play them all together…? Five – Six hours? This is a WAG.

     

     

    That's RIGHT!!!  MAIN STORYLINE ONLY 5-6 HOURS LONG>>>> MEANING, you can FREE ROAM PLAY and EXPLORE ALL YOU WANT, WHERE YOU WANT and WHEN YOU WANT,  FREE to do the SIDE QUEST CHAINS in ANY ORDER.

  • deakondeakon Member Posts: 583
    Originally posted by fistorm
     

    heres what your looking for here.   The 50+ alliance zones and pre 50 alliance zones.

    I found the interactive map on their website, let me pair this up with what they said in Q&A,  I think this is the best answer to that at the moment

    http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/map/tamriel

    and

    Post # 84

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/comment-page-9

    Question 2: Will the 50+/++ content change my Alliance setting that I’ve chosen at the start of the game to another one and if it does, can I change back to my original alliance when I’m done with the 50 +/++ content?
    Question 3: Can I still group up with my friends when I’m doing 50+/++ content and they are not high in level enough.

    Answer 2: Only while you are in that alliance, but not for PvP campaigns. For those you will always be considered part of your original alliance.

    Answer 3: You can, but they cannot come to the other alliance areas, yet…

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mHQNA45js

    Then 2:03:30   Rushing to 50,  this is what Dev Nick says in interview.   "Not even 50% though just one avenute of the game by hitting 50"   I think this is the core of your worries, The worry that you'll rush to 50 and have no real amounts of hours.

    I think if you look at this, the fact that your not even close to 50% done with just one avenue of the game at 50,  that the amount of hours your looking at  would be defiantly a lot more then 100s.    I'll leave you with that. 

     

    I know what post 50+ alliance zones are, they are already announced and have been talked about many times, they are the leveling content of the other factions but scaled up for 50, they give you veteran ranks (as do pvp dungeons and adventure zones) which is what gives you access to better gear.

     

    The adventure zones are a completely different thing altogether and have yet to be talked about in any detail and nick refuses to go into any detail on them in that same video you posted until the badgered him to say "I will say this, as someone who has enjoyed hardcore raiding, I enjoyed what I played of our adventure zone", the latest official word on adventure zones is from the creative director himself, when he said:

     

    "What kind of instances can we expect in TESO. Will there be dungeons for larger groups, such as raids? Will there be open world encounters? -gamereactor.eu”

    “We are going to have public dungeons, that are more geared towards two players, and four man dungeons, which we internally call instances. Finally, at launch, we’ll have what we call adventure zones for larger groups of up to twelve, and we’ll be releasing more details on those zones a little bit later. The latter might be compared to what people usually call raids, but they are a little bit different than what people are used to. They are still a lot of fun to play with a number of other players. -Paul Sage”"

     

    You are confusing adventure zones with veteran zones they are not the same thing, one we know quite a bit about the other they haven't/won't gone/go into detail on yet. Even the recent q&a on tamrielfoundry (that you linked) had a rule that you couldn't even ask about them

  • DauntisDauntis Member UncommonPosts: 600

    "Interview with Dev Nick Konkle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mHQNA45js

    1:29:40    What would you say to a guy like this Developer Nick?

    FREEDOM YOU ASK?

    PROOF OF NON-LINER GAMEPLAY!!!   OPEN WORLD RPG!!!!

     Post #124

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/01/qa-with-paul-sage/comment-page-13

    How long would you say the main storyline be?

    Very hard question to answer in all fairness. It spans multiple levels, so it really depends on the player. If you could play them all together…? Five – Six hours? This is a WAG.

     That's RIGHT!!!  MAIN STORYLINE ONLY 5-6 HOURS LONG>>>> MEANING, you can FREE ROAM PLAY and EXPLORE ALL YOU WANT, WHERE YOU WANT and WHEN YOU WANT,  FREE to do the SIDE QUEST CHAINS in ANY ORDER."

    I wasn't talking about the openness of the world, I was referring more to their being classes and restrictions that players of the single player games are not used to. You won't be permanently killing village residents you don't like, etc. like the single player. And why are you yelling at me? LOL

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  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868

    Adventure Zones is a HUGE secret, that's correct.  I think its so great that they don't want to ruin our experience because there is something huge going on there.   I can live with that until closer to launch,  I'm guessing its going to be the biggest unveiling to the fans they'll have.    The real last thing that makes everyone make up their mind on the game.   its almost given away in the poker face of Nick no this video.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80mHQNA45js

    1:35:15

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I wasn't talking about the openness of the world, I was referring more to their being classes and restrictions that players of the single player games are not used to. You won't be permanently killing village residents you don't like, etc. like the single player. And why are you yelling at me? LOL

    LOL, actually I never yell, its just the way I type with emphesis on key words.   But the class system has be repeatedly covered by the devs.   It works like this.....     You can pick a class,  but if you level Restoration high lvl,   your class will be insignificant to your skills you level.   So what you level like in SKYRIM for example,  You level up Bow to max level,  your perks for Bow are what define you, not your class.  I would compare your class about as significant as EQ2's race skills which isn't very powerful. 

     

    You can switch the roles, of say restoration healer, to say two hander melee if you wanted in mid fight.   That's what I got from all the devs words, videos and Q&A so far to date.

     

    While classes are new, and were not in previous once I think it wont be very important, at least not as important as Guild Skills like in SKYRIM,  It was covered a lot and seems to be the most important skills you can choose or at least as good as your bow/restoration skills.

     No killing Villagers you EVIL EVIL, person.  Then again even in Sjkyrim, you couldn't kill Children... that would make you worse then evil, that would make you a MONSTER! LOL.

     

    Its close enough for an MMO game.  I think all the ES fans will join in when they see everything about the game at a later date, which is why threads like this are really crazy to start this early before release.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    I think it is going to fail pretty hard long term. It will be another 3 month mmo and your done just like Guild Wars 2. I don't think their will be any good mmo in 2014 that will appeal to the masses. If anything, we will continue to see people play more inde f2p mmos rather than more mainstream ones.
    30
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311

    which game will do better? meaning which game will have more players? that's easy, it will be ESO.

    which game will be better is up to the individual after both games are released.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by ThomasN7
    I think it is going to fail pretty hard long term. It will be another 3 month mmo and your done just like Guild Wars 2. I don't think their will be any good mmo in 2014 that will appeal to the masses. If anything, we will continue to see people play more inde f2p mmos rather than more mainstream ones.

    There will never be another "superior" mmorpg like WoW imho. They will all start out strong then fade into niche games. GW2 is the perfect example, it lost all the basic "new" players and now is flourishing and doing well with GWs fans.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,311


    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by ThomasN7 I think it is going to fail pretty hard long term. It will be another 3 month mmo and your done just like Guild Wars 2. I don't think their will be any good mmo in 2014 that will appeal to the masses. If anything, we will continue to see people play more inde f2p mmos rather than more mainstream ones.
    There will never be another "superior" mmorpg like WoW imho. They will all start out strong then fade into niche games. GW2 is the perfect example, it lost all the basic "new" players and now is flourishing and doing well with GWs fans.

    much like SWTOR is as well. it will take a far superior mmo to keep mass amounts of people playing for years again. other than that every mmo from here on out will fall victim to the same longevity bug IMO

  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Member Posts: 1,090
    Originally posted by squalleonaha

    A great single player game go MMO. arent we have an example ahead of it?,SWTOR. itsnt hard to predicted the thing here

    at first , a great  sell of some millions box and about ....some millions sub (30days free). Dev will claim that the game is huge success just like......SWTOR. 

    after the first 1 free month. thing start to go down and ....well you know where to look at. i'll say ESO will have a small solid subs like SWTOR and FF14. the game will live on just like that.

    as for wildstar. i think the picture are darker since its doesnt even have a good fans base. after the hype, it'll just go F2P quick. the P2P model isnt dead. its just the market it target get smaller. people play more than 1 MMO or games now aday. they even have handheld, console, pc, tablet and many F2P game such as DOTA1,2  or LOL. little time to devote into 1 mmo lead to unwilling to pay $15 a month. however the fans boy will

    wut?

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Originally posted by ThomasN7 I think it is going to fail pretty hard long term. It will be another 3 month mmo and your done just like Guild Wars 2. I don't think their will be any good mmo in 2014 that will appeal to the masses. If anything, we will continue to see people play more inde f2p mmos rather than more mainstream ones.
    There will never be another "superior" mmorpg like WoW imho. They will all start out strong then fade into niche games. GW2 is the perfect example, it lost all the basic "new" players and now is flourishing and doing well with GWs fans.

     

    much like SWTOR is as well. it will take a far superior mmo to keep mass amounts of people playing for years again. other than that every mmo from here on out will fall victim to the same longevity bug IMO

     

    I personally like this entire situation. Instead of involving my time in one game I can bounce from one to another. I enjoy GW2, TSW, SWTOR, and WoW. I know I may be the minority, but I think a lot of people do this. Playing one game all the time to me gets old. /shrug

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • fistormfistorm Member UncommonPosts: 868
    You know I don't think anyone has found out just how many LOTRO gamers that ESO will grab up also.    LOTRO is a lot like the genre of ESO.    I'm curious to find this out because LOTRO is right up there at the top of MMORPG's right now.   If ESO grabs up some of the LOTRO player base, we could see some Even higher Record Numbers then we have speculated so far.
  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Member Posts: 1,090
    Originally posted by Amjoco
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Originally posted by ThomasN7 I think it is going to fail pretty hard long term. It will be another 3 month mmo and your done just like Guild Wars 2. I don't think their will be any good mmo in 2014 that will appeal to the masses. If anything, we will continue to see people play more inde f2p mmos rather than more mainstream ones.
    There will never be another "superior" mmorpg like WoW imho. They will all start out strong then fade into niche games. GW2 is the perfect example, it lost all the basic "new" players and now is flourishing and doing well with GWs fans.

     

    much like SWTOR is as well. it will take a far superior mmo to keep mass amounts of people playing for years again. other than that every mmo from here on out will fall victim to the same longevity bug IMO

     

    I personally like this entire situation. Instead of involving my time in one game I can bounce from one to another. I enjoy GW2, TSW, SWTOR, and WoW. I know I may be the minority, but I think a lot of people do this. Playing one game all the time to me gets old. /shrug

    I never used to do this, but I find myself doing it now.  I bounce between WoW, LOTRO, and Eve as the mood strikes me.  Once Wildstar comes out, I'll probably keep subs for that game and WoW.  

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Amjoco
     

    I personally like this entire situation. Instead of involving my time in one game I can bounce from one to another. I enjoy GW2, TSW, SWTOR, and WoW. I know I may be the minority, but I think a lot of people do this. Playing one game all the time to me gets old. /shrug

    I think your style of mmo bounce is fast becoming the majority of players. I also don't see it as a bad thing.

  • Heavy-armor-warriorHeavy-armor-warrior Member Posts: 222
    Originally posted by Rockniss
    It will be behind Warlords of Dreanor, but it will do better than Wildstar, Gw2, and Swtor. Wildstar is trying to cater to the wow crowd, the hit box thing is going to be to annoying though. ESO caters to the Gw2, Elder Scrolls, pvp, RvR, Doac, I hate wow, and I gotta play it because it's the biggest thing since Dayz crowd. Here's what I will be doing. ... ESO then Destiny then Warlords, then ESO goes f2p then I go from ESO to Destiny back and forth, then the final raid boss is available for WoD, I blow through the content, then back to f2p ESO and Destiny until EQNext or The Division launches. I will come up for air in about 3 to 4 years. Have fun everyone! !!! PS - bioshock infinite is free right now for psn subscribers the game is very strange and full of suprises. Enjoy!

    Thats quite the prediction you got there pal. XD

  • I expect a mild success like SWTOR. A GW2 payment model would probably have helped them achieve more. I think it will be difficult to keep loyal subs when there are "free" alternatives of similar quality.
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by Axxar
    I expect a mild success like SWTOR. A GW2 payment model would probably have helped them achieve more. I think it will be difficult to keep loyal subs when there are "free" alternatives of similar quality.

    Mild?  TOR is the second most successful game with a subscription option.  ESO should be so lucky.

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    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
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  • GillleanGilllean Member Posts: 169

    Skyrim is great for me but with 186 must have Mods witch bring an extremly realistic look to game and lot of small realistic things. Better sound better NPC better character creation skill development and so on .

    Original Skyrim looks very unfinished to be honest . But with mods I full filed this gap.

     

    TESO well it's already known that it will not  be Skyrim with realism overhaul . Some things will be excluded because of MMO concept .  Still there are a lot of other great thing I heard from beta testers and this goods are more than bad. + to all TESO will bring to game competition witch I always lack in Skyrim oblivion except in Morrowind witch I think was best ever. 

    I think TESO MIGHT BE A DECENT RIVAL  I mention might be there are still a lot of thing to bring into game and to polish a lot  but I think game will totally be worth my money and time.

    Next BIG sand BOX is ArchAge with is very boring  fight is very static La2 style quite old . Also game is build around craft so you will spend a lot of time farming literary farming. Build house plant plants trees and so on .  Witch is very boring to be honest a lot of time you will be spending on crafting. Another thing is that AA is a team based game so most of the time you must be in a team.  But to be honest I always hated to depend on others. 

    What about TESO they picked Gw2 Combat  a bit dynamic a bit chaotic but witch require dodge intuition witch you acquire with time witch is a Skill factor and I like it.

    Also in TEs you will be a hero   with great qwest lines   but in Archage are same all crap.

    Yes I thing TESO will make a decent rival. Total domination  like WOW not sure  1 to 99 that this will happen. And this is because there are a lot of game this year so each will get it's slice from the cake .

  • paul9smithpaul9smith Member Posts: 13

    I  believe the only real opponent for ESO this year should only be "WildStar Online" as this game looks quite promising. But with ESO stong fanbase, it is quite hard for it to lose unless the game cannot reach expectation from fans. 

  • GillleanGilllean Member Posts: 169
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    • Zones are level-dependent and progression in ESO
    Most mmos have this concept even Gw2 with it specific lvl downgrading is level dependent .
    (I fixed it sir could you mention more example ? because I never played games that seemed to be  not worth time liek Age of Wuli ?  )
    This is not a reason to complain   TESO it's a MMO so it must follow some MMO rules standards. And because ESO will be a MMO of course they will have to drop some thing that are not viable in a MMO world.   From what I read game exploration starts at lvl 50 when you can go any where and explore anything witch sound nice to me.
     
    Zenimax could do it better if would be make it free from start.   But this way we have some kind of PVE content after 50 Wold exploration and many others but wily we take 50 they lead us by our epic quest line witch is voice acted by great actors .
  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    In terms of initial sales, it will probably fare better than non-franchise games.

    Longevity depends on the quality of the game, the release and the continued support though :)

    Originally posted by Gilllean
    All mmos have this concept even Gw2 with it specific lvl downgrading is level dependent .
     

    This is me nitpicking, because I do not think this is necessarily an "issue". But that statement there is untrue.

    Not all MMO's have the concept of level-based zones. Example: Age of Wulin

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by fistorm 

    PROOF OF NON-LINER GAMEPLAY!!!   OPEN WORLD RPG!!!!

    I was wondering how to answer this without breaking the NDA, and then I found this little article...

    Source: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/11/what-eso-must-do-to-succeed/

    • Exploration in ESO is not truly “open world”, you are not guaranteed that you can travel to anywhere you can see. The segmentation of Tamriel into zones serves a very important role for the technology of the megaserver, allowing a complex system of phasing and player allocation to give each individual the best personal experience in a massively multiplayer game space. The downside of this decision, however, is that you cannot travel in a straight line from Vvardenfell to Summerset Isle as many players are imagining. You cannot scale the highest mountains or roam for hours without encountering a barrier or load screen.
    'nuff said.
    • Zones are level-dependent and progression in ESO follows a predetermined exploration path. For example, Ebonheart Pact players will start on an island in Skyrim, before travelling to Morrowind, then south to Blackmarsh. Every EP character will follow the same geographic ordering of zones. You cannot choose to, for example, run directly to Winterhold instead of following the main alliance storyline. Monsters in later zones will be far too challenging for the player if they attempt to skip ahead.
    Pretty much the definition of linear gameplay. All your character of the same faction will do exactly the same zones in the same order, with no other possible choice. Very far from the other ES games. It's even more linear than WoW, where you still have the choice of different zones to play through. Here, same zones, no choice.

    As someone who has also played the game, that's a bit of a stretch. It's definitely not more shoehorned than WoW. At worst, it's the same. However there's quite a few differences the game has that make it less forced (imho) than WoW is.

    For starters, outside the tutorial zone, you get a lot more freedom over what you choose to do. Secondly, (similar to WoW), you can go to the zones of other factions and lvl there if you choose (not unlike how it was with WoW Vanilla). Unfortunately I cannot go into more detail w/o breaking NDA =/.

    Tbh, the game is going to be quite different than I think a lot of people are expecting / being led to believe. The best comparison I can make would be to say that the PvE (questing & dungeons) is very similar to GW2. The PvP (cyrodil) is very similar to DAoC.

    I originally had a lot of doubts about the game, and wasn't even going to try the beta until a friend talked me into it. And I'm definitely glad I gave the game a chance, because it is nowhere near as bad as most of the people on these forums want people to believe. With each passing beta I find myself wanting to play it more, and wanting to experiment w/ more and more things.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by paul9smith

    I  believe the only real opponent for ESO this year should only be "WildStar Online" as this game looks quite promising. But with ESO stong fanbase, it is quite hard for it to lose unless the game cannot reach expectation from fans. 

    I completely agree with the first part. Not so much the second.

    The way I see it is basically this:

    ESO will be the DAoC 2.0, WildStar will be the WoW 2.0.

    People are going to flood to WildStar because everyone's playing it, it's familiar, accessible, and requires very little thought / effort to get into and play.

    ESO is already has a HUGE negative hype-train against the game. This alone is scaring a lot of people away. However, I think a good amount of people will realize that it's actually a good game, and not nearly as bad as being advertised. That said, I think it will still have a somewhat niche crowd of fans.

    ESO isn't 100% like the single player games, and thus is turning off certain players. Regardless off how ridiculous that may sound. Furthermore ESO is a much more skill-based game, that's going to require a lot of build crafting & strategy to play well. Because of this, it's going to have the same problem GW2 had, where people didn't want to take the time to learn the skills, and completely wrote the game off as a result.

    The PvP in ESO is also centered around mass battles, which a lot of people complain about for various reasons. WildStar has bite-sized, qued battlegrounds, which are easy to get into, fairly lag-free, and less punishing if you lose.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,963
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by fistorm 

    PROOF OF NON-LINER GAMEPLAY!!!   OPEN WORLD RPG!!!!

    I was wondering how to answer this without breaking the NDA, and then I found this little article...

    Source: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/11/what-eso-must-do-to-succeed/

    • Exploration in ESO is not truly “open world”, you are not guaranteed that you can travel to anywhere you can see. The segmentation of Tamriel into zones serves a very important role for the technology of the megaserver, allowing a complex system of phasing and player allocation to give each individual the best personal experience in a massively multiplayer game space. The downside of this decision, however, is that you cannot travel in a straight line from Vvardenfell to Summerset Isle as many players are imagining. You cannot scale the highest mountains or roam for hours without encountering a barrier or load screen.
    'nuff said.
    • Zones are level-dependent and progression in ESO follows a predetermined exploration path. For example, Ebonheart Pact players will start on an island in Skyrim, before travelling to Morrowind, then south to Blackmarsh. Every EP character will follow the same geographic ordering of zones. You cannot choose to, for example, run directly to Winterhold instead of following the main alliance storyline. Monsters in later zones will be far too challenging for the player if they attempt to skip ahead.
    Pretty much the definition of linear gameplay. All your character of the same faction will do exactly the same zones in the same order, with no other possible choice. Very far from the other ES games. It's even more linear than WoW, where you still have the choice of different zones to play through. Here, same zones, no choice.

    As someone who has also played the game, that's a bit of a stretch. It's definitely not more shoehorned than WoW. At worst, it's the same. However there's quite a few differences the game has that make it less forced (imho) than WoW is.

    For starters, outside the tutorial zone, you get a lot more freedom over what you choose to do. Secondly, (similar to WoW), you can go to the zones of other factions and lvl there if you choose (not unlike how it was with WoW Vanilla). Unfortunately I cannot go into more detail w/o breaking NDA =/.

    Tbh, the game is going to be quite different than I think a lot of people are expecting / being led to believe. The best comparison I can make would be to say that the PvE (questing & dungeons) is very similar to GW2. The PvP (cyrodil) is very similar to DAoC.

    I originally had a lot of doubts about the game, and wasn't even going to try the beta until a friend talked me into it. And I'm definitely glad I gave the game a chance, because it is nowhere near as bad as most of the people on these forums want people to believe. With each passing beta I find myself wanting to play it more, and wanting to experiment w/ more and more things.

    Yeah, but fistorm thinks it is open like skyrim and it is not. I'm glad that JLP found that as I've been trying to say this to him over and over.

    I woldn't say iot's more linear than WoW but some people are convinced they are getting skyrim online when it has been said over and over that it is not like taht and the game "is" a themepark.

    And then theya re going to come here and bitch and complain that they were lied to when all they had to do was pay attention.

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  • KaronethKaroneth Member UncommonPosts: 12

    Many good observations and opinions in this thread.

    Skyrim sold at least 20 million copies according to official Bethsoft quotes.  I'm not sure how many players Warcraft had prior to its becoming an MMO.  You could say that ESO will be a lot more like Skyrim in gameplay, than WoW was like Warcraft, so the fact that ESO is not exactly like Skyrim is somewhat moot there, in my opinion.

    Many of those Skyrim players may not have updated to the latest console, or perhaps cannot afford the sub fee, so I do not expect ESO to sell 20 million copies by July.  I can't imagine it would sell under 2 million, however.  As an earlier post mentioned, ESO with its planned continual content upgrades may have a better chance of grabbing the dedicated, older crowd who plan on staying in the game for many years to come, while WildStar may attract more of those who are only there until the next big thing launches.  I believe that the most important benchmark for an MMO is not as much initial sales, but player retention over the years.  The TES universe is almost 20 years old now and those who started with Arena are now in their mid 30's to 40's.

    I run a guild for ESO and our average age is in their 30's and most of us plan to play ESO for 5-10 years according to an unscientific poll I had up for the members.  If I ran the same poll for a typical guild for WildStar, I get the feeling the numbers would trend younger and less dedicated.  I have no desire to see WildStar or any other game fail, I just see them as targeting different markets.

    Personally, the graphics and genre of Wildstar are a turnoff, as well as the lack of already existing IP.  I'm sure though the raiding in it will attract many.  The IP, graphics, and development team for ESO are plusses in my book and it will be great to see the NDA lifted soon with only two months or so left to launch.  I'd have to wager that in my best guess, 2 years from now, ESO will have more subs than WildStar.

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    Guildmaster, Brotherhood of Redemption
    http://www.borguild.com/
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