I think baff is a troll, or else a retard. Noone could use that weak an argument and believe it. "I dont do alliance PvP", "PvP has no purpose". Please tell that to all the alliances who have died solely due to PvP losses.
he is both of course...
don't feed him.
I could point out a dozen things which are simply false in his "arguments". and the way he does not even react to any disprovings tell me he knows very well that he is lying.
much of his last posting is so idiotic it is almost beyond bullshit.
he is basically a troll who is running out of bait.
"larger playerbases" --- just lol
"With free moving league tables that don't end up just getting dominated by the same old faces all the time." --- this sentence contains so much dung it couldn't even be sold in Jita. I mean, everyone who has ever played EVE knows this guy is a troll. only complete noobs and people who never tried EVE may think he is not just trolling.
And that's his goal.
he doesn'T want to change EVE or to make something better, he doesn't even want to complain. he simply wants to keep people away from the game.
and anyone who really believes him, wouldn't fit in EVE anyway.
so he acts like a protective force against an invasion of morons into EVE.
I approve of him
Eve has a relatively small playerbase. Two hundred thousand? I play PvP games with smaller playerbases of course, but mostly larger.
There are any number of improvements Eve could make to it's PvP, I've gone into a few examples of what Eve's direct competition does. Including, Level caps, Instancing, ability streaming and max level starting toons.These are all tricks of the trade that current gen MMO's employ that Eve could learn from and incorporate (should the dev's ever manage to stop licking their balls long enough to get back to their keyboards). This is just on the game balance side. Clearly there are also tricks to be learned on the game mechanic front also such as use of the enviroment and 3 dimensional positioning that would add a little much need complexity to the fights. We could also go to the technical aspects of networking and the now prevalence of broadband, 56k data size is no longer a design constraint, substantial complexity can be added.
All I keep hearing from the "fanboys" (if I'm a troll, that must make you a fanboy), is how Eve is a niche game, if you don't like it sod off. Like little dogs peeing on their lamp posts. It's not me that is being a protective force, it's not me that isn't suggesting how to improve Eve. Neither do I want to keep people away from the game, (although I obviously wish for certain elements of the games players to stay away from me). I'm not about exclusivity. I'm about inclusivity. Something for everyone. It's not me suiggesting there is no place for PvE players. This game is stagnant and the players in their little hierarchy wish for it to stay that way. Any suggestions that it should be different will garner their anger. Is some moron suggesting that the other newer players you seek to dominate all have a more even chance against you?
Boo hoo. How terrible.
As for all those alliances that have died solely for this purpose. What a load of overly dramatised claptrap. My god man, listen to yourself. I used to speak like that when I was 12. The whole universe revolving around whatever it was I happened to be focusing on at that moment in time.
Clan's die everyday. It's normal part of human relations. They died for Eve PvP? No. They just died. Some key players left, or they all fell out with eachother. No one actually died. Their "deaths" are meaningless. It's just a game they were playing because they were bored. Who knows, perhaps they died of frustraton. Perhaps they felt they couldn't achieve anything because another clan had them resouce locked.
Sorry folks, but you lack perspective. Eve's the best multiplayer space sim on the market but nothing like the best PvP.
Baff, you've (along with a few of us 'fanbois' here) descended from conversation into pure flaming and crying. Insulting the game, its devs and its players don't a good argument make. This applies to the other folk too, keep it civil despite the rage that makes you want to tear the carpet off the floor with your teeth. Go punch a bag for a while before you post. I'll go take my own advice now....
Back. Baff, I also find it condescending from you that you assume you know the motivations of all EVE players: "It's a game they play because they are bored." With that, you take from EVE players any other possible motivation for playing except what is, by your stated perspective, apparently excruciating boredom, on which a welcome delight would be to fill the IRS tax forms.
Look at it this way: In FPS or RTS 'match style' games, the objective is to perform better by your own skills, to figure out a new strategy to win the next 'round' on a relatively level playing field where all rules are known and all possible maneuvers too. This applies to Guild Wars and to WoW too, in general. Their PVP is such a 'formulated' sport, after a fashion, and that's one reason why it hasn't interested me. When I want to play a 'sporting' game, I'll go for the FPS's.
Real-world analogy for these games would be sports, individual and team-based. Sorta. After all, you'll spend quite the same time playing football to be good at it as you'd spend in learning to be a real pro in Counterstrike or any dozen other games.
EVE is a hobby. The objective is... Well, whatever you want it to be. For alliances, it is generally to build the biggest, richest, bestest alliance they can. There are only a few hard rules, known to all, and lots of rules people suppose are rules, but can, in fact, be something else entirely.
People put in tremendous effort because it's a hobby. The same thing applies to the guy who builds miniature battle re-enactments with little tin soldiers in his basement, or who has a major minirailroad project he spends every saturday building.
Or to the people who make costumes, go to renfaires or LARP, or spend their free time sitting around a table playing boardgames or rolling dice and imagining other worlds and stories. Or to the people who spend time tuning up their cars, building them into strange and powerful, or just beautiful machines.
They don't really compete with one another, except in big, big competitions where there are judges and, possibly, votes from the crowd, for measuring up against other peoples creativity and getting new ideas for your own thing.
Now, EVE has combat too, because as much as it is a sandbox, it's also a competitive sandbox with limited resources. Why? Because it is fun. Because there are people who like the challenge, who like to build their groups and be able to wrest control from others. Because if you didn't have competition, it wouldn't be a sandbox.
The important thing is that it's not a sport. If it were, you'd have some sort of 'reset' button for it that would clear and level the playing field between matches. Star Sonata, which is a fun space MMO btw, has that. Whenever someone wins, the universe resets.
Why do you consider this condescending? Are you a professional gamer?
Now I agree with you most wholeheartdly that people enjoy PvP in Eve. And that quite frankly if it floats your boat, go for it. Likewise I feel the same way about those who do not. I'm one of them.
And I concur that the objective for alliances tends to be advancement. I consider this to be the core element of Eve gameplay. It's an Rpg, the prime lure is to get more powerful, richer, influential etc.
This for me is fun too.
P.S., it's not until we discuss Eve's theme and networking genius that you will see the fanboy in me. I am one, but undernourished sandbox PvP isn't something I get impressed by.
I can go with your reasoning about Eve not being a sport, as I mentioned earlier this is a perfectly respectable justification of enjoying Eve's PvP in my opinion. It's when I here crys of it's a well balanced game primarily designed for PvP that I beg to differ. While for some people PvP is what makes Eve great. for myself it is the weakest link. The one part of the game that I can find significantly better from other sources.
I would of course consider the inclusion of sporting arena's an improvement to Eve's gameplay as it would cater to this crowd and provide more options for diverse play. I think this is a trick found in all other MMORPG's that Eve dev's have ignored. And I'll insult them again for this. I think they are lazy. More is more. The more they add, the better the game. Calling it a sandbox, doesn't mean you get to stop working.
I can't say I disagree with you on that too much. I sort of have a grudge against that 'Entertainment package' -thinking, since it tends to make both consumers and producers think of Online games in the same way as single-player games, with content that is produced and consumed.
It's an easy way of thinking, but it's also stagnated and boring IMO. I don't want to play an online game where everything I do is spoonfed to me by the devs, and the only choices I need to make are 'do I need a group to do this content or do I try it alone'. This is more then slightly Off-Topic though, but we've gone so far we can't even see the original topic anymore, so...
I want my games to have dynamic, player-created content. Content I can be a part of in creating, and content I can fight against, to strive to change it into what I want it to be. Few games allow this, EVE being in the forefront of those. There's a couple of others in development that will be even closer to my ideal.
The 'something for everybody'-concept has its merits, but what about me? The sort of gameplay you describe as 'ideal' is to me as 'stagnated and boring' as EVE is to you. Instancing was originally created as a way to save on system resources at the server/bandwidth end, but now it's touted as the way of making content. 'Raiding' that resembles a football match, yes, I can see the interest but not so much when there's games that do it better (FPS's and RTS's played vs. other players). These things aren't new, they were around when EVE was created, and have been conciously not installed into EVE.
PVE in EVE itself is, I admit, pretty basic. I'd like to have more of it, perhaps some PVE that would involve big player groups (such as supplying an NPC station in distress or providing an escort to an NPC freighter group), and a lot more (and more varied) individual missions, perhaps even a 'storyline' that could go on through the so-called 'storyline' missions. Mining is, apparently, getting an overhaul, or at least it's in the works, and that's good too. We just need to be very careful that what now works (PVP, The Market, Manufacturing etc.) isn't borked by anything we add.
And as for EVE's size and stagnation? It keeps on growing. It's currently the only game in the world where over 40 000 people have been online in a single game world at the same time. That's big. That's humongous. And EVE's already breached 200 000 subscribers, not much by the numbers of WOW, but fairly impressive for such a 'niche' game.
Does EVE need to grow? Yes. Does it do so without making huge modifications that would certainly alienate most of current playerbase? Yes. Do we want CCP to fix what isn't broken? No. This is why EVE is a niche game, and why we 'enthusiasts' like it to stay that way. Oh, and because we do love the game, and don't want to change it beyond recognition.
I can go with your reasoning about Eve not being a sport, as I mentioned earlier this is a perfectly respectable justification of enjoying Eve's PvP in my opinion. It's when I here crys of it's a well balanced game primarily designed for PvP that I beg to differ. While for some people PvP is what makes Eve great. for myself it is the weakest link. The one part of the game that I can find significantly better from other sources. I would of course consider the inclusion of sporting arena's an improvement to Eve's gameplay as it would cater to this crowd and provide more options for diverse play. I think this is a trick found in all other MMORPG's that Eve dev's have ignored. And I'll insult them again for this. I think they are lazy. More is more. The more they add, the better the game. Calling it a sandbox, doesn't mean you get to stop working.
I can perfectly agree with you on the sporting arenas issue: It would IMO not act as a detriment in the game, but as an improvement. I don't think having arenas would magically make all PVPers disappear from alliance space or all issues between corps/alliances be decided within those Arenas. I think an EVE 'pvp-arena ladder' is a good idea. Although, nothing really prevents you from organizing that in EVE right now, does it? I can see plenty of ways to do it without instancing or any mechanical changes to the game. Just go ahead and do it.
However, calling EVE devs lazy is... Well, it is insulting to anyone who sees how much stuff and effort they put into their game all the time. Just because the devs don't implement your vision of improvements into the game doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Check out the new Trinity improvements, or the big 'ambulation' addition that they are currently working on, you can't say that they've stopped working and are now lounging in the bahamas smoking big cigars and drinking pina coladas from coconuts.
And I disagree with you on the PVP balance issue. I find EVE's PVP almost too balanced, in a way. However, it is also so multifaceted that a single tactic often has several counters, and thus there are ways to decide what you want to do based on what you have to work with. There are, however, very stagnated ideas on 'what works' going on in the playerbase: Several people still think Warp Stabs are 'cheating' or even useful in PVP setups, while the recent nerfs and introduction of bubbles have made them all but obsolete. Similarly, many people feel that a close-range fleet is useless, but there are ways to use blasterships in the deeps that many haven't even begun to think about.
There's a new idea going around that would make sniper ships about as obsolete as Warp Stabs, but it requires a bit more discipline and training then is reasonable to assume a big 'blob' fleet could manage. We'll see how it goes down.
It's certainly more options then any other game I've ever played, and that, I think, is a good thing.
i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy
I don't mind PvP, the problem coes in when players engage in it in unfair ways such as was brought up the "gate camping". then again its always the few who ruin the fun of the many.
I don't mind PvP, the problem coes in when players engage in it in unfair ways such as was brought up the "gate camping". then again its always the few who ruin the fun of the many.
the sad truth is that according to this thread (yes i read all of it) everyone seems to agree that the whole eve experience relys on such things
"i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy"
100 - 200k per belt in 0.0 ? Most belts i've seen in 0.0 will get you atleast 250k for the shittiest belts and upwards to 1.5mil and in rare faction spawns even more. Plus there is loot and salvage to add to the money. As far as 15 people coming by and jumping you goes, did you not see local chat fill up with people ? If you did then why didn't you warp to a safe spot ? And if you didn't see local fill up then why were you not watching it ?
If your friend bought over 2bil isk then he needs to learn how to play the game. Hell I pay for my game time with in game money. I can make enough money from running some level 4 agent missions for a week to pay for 3 months play time.
How did you manage to necro this thread so badly ?
"I don't mind PvP, the problem coes in when players engage in it in unfair ways such as was brought up the "gate camping". then again its always the few who ruin the fun of the many."
Gate camps can be avoided. Check your map for ships destroyed at the chokepoints into low sec and 0.0 space. Most smaller fast to align ships can run most gate camps, ships like industrials and battleships have a more difficult time.
"the sad truth is that according to this thread (yes i read all of it) everyone seems to agree that the whole eve experience relys on such things"
I wouldn't call it a sad truth at all but it is a truth, Eve relys on the pvp system in place to make everything else work. If CCP all of a sudden turned around and made a PvE friendly server with only consentual pvp and no gear loss Eve would be a dead game instead of slowly growing in numbers like it has over the years.
Eve would need a complete redesign from the ground up to include "raid' type environments. This is just silly when theres a million other mmos out there that already do this type of gameplay and do it better than CCP probably ever could. CCP has an amazing PvP based mmo and is successful, whether or not it caters to a particular type of player or attract the numbers doesn't mean a thing. Just because other mmos such as Wow (example cause its so easy to pick out) are wildly popular among the general gaming market it does not mean that you can plug WoWs design into another game world environment and it will work. It would be like saying baseball sucks so lets make the players allowed to tackle baserunners and kick field goals after scoring a run. Its just stupid.
Eve has a steep harsh learning curve but unlike other pvp games the players intelligence counts alot more than being levelled high enough and having the right gear.
I still cannot believe this thread got necro'd to the top
if you absolutely must know i googled eve nonpvp and got this thread.
shure i can understand safe spots, but what i dont understand is how an mmo can be made with so little variety, shure, its easier to make nice landscapes and such in a fantasy mmo, but thats no excuse for a space game, why is there so much of the same thing? even the lamest mmo has alot of variety in at least the npcs to fight, shure, there are only so many ways to make a spaceship, but that dosent mean that you cant come up with some sort of menacing npcs to fight, a month into the game and i was already going into 0.0 space, fighting the same looking ships.
not to compair one space game to another, but sword of the stars at least had a few unique space faring threats that mixed the game up a bit, heck even a dangerous nebula, or a space faring hive life form would do wonders to have interested me in this game, but after 3 months of the game, one of it spent in 0.0 space (oh and btw i did jump to a safe spot, twice, idk what they did to find me, maby i shoulda jumped to the station) i really dident see too much variety in the enviorment.
shure its a space game, and its supposed to be black, and empty, and full of dark hopelessness, but thats no reason not to throw a few energy based enemys, or a couple of organized threats that roam the dangerous space (not players).
i dunno why i even bothered to type this, im probably just going to get flamed anyways. there is no reason why the game cant have more non pvp content, but of course that is blasphemy.
EDIT: and why speak of raids when the game dosent have the basics down yet for pve?
also, there is no "other mmo" when it comes to space, if there were options, i promise you i would not waste your time
Eh, wrong game buddy. EVE is all about ganking and what not. Like it, or leave.
That's a gross oversimplification. Eve is about one thing - freedom. When you log in you can be whatever you want to be.
The game has an incrediable (unrivaled?) amount of depth and if you don't like ganking you don't have to do it , though you still need to be prepared for those that do.
Originally posted by adecoy95 if you absolutely must know i googled eve nonpvp and got this thread.
shure i can understand safe spots, but what i dont understand is how an mmo can be made with so little variety, shure, its easier to make nice landscapes and such in a fantasy mmo, but thats no excuse for a space game, why is there so much of the same thing? even the lamest mmo has alot of variety in at least the npcs to fight, shure, there are only so many ways to make a spaceship, but that dosent mean that you cant come up with some sort of menacing npcs to fight, a month into the game and i was already going into 0.0 space, fighting the same looking ships. not to compair one space game to another, but sword of the stars at least had a few unique space faring threats that mixed the game up a bit, heck even a dangerous nebula, or a space faring hive life form would do wonders to have interested me in this game, but after 3 months of the game, one of it spent in 0.0 space (oh and btw i did jump to a safe spot, twice, idk what they did to find me, maby i shoulda jumped to the station) i really dident see too much variety in the enviorment.
shure its a space game, and its supposed to be black, and empty, and full of dark hopelessness, but thats no reason not to throw a few energy based enemys, or a couple of organized threats that roam the dangerous space (not players). i dunno why i even bothered to type this, im probably just going to get flamed anyways. there is no reason why the game cant have more non pvp content, but of course that is blasphemy. EDIT: and why speak of raids when the game dosent have the basics down yet for pve? also, there is no "other mmo" when it comes to space, if there were options, i promise you i would not waste your time
I'm not gonna flame you and neither would most Eve players, instead I will take the time to answer and questions you might have and point out any mistakes you have made about the game.
Regarding the variety of npcs, there is actually quite a bit of variety in the npcs. Different areas of space have different types but the biggest variety would be in the hidden exploration sites. The variety is out there but you have to go find it. As far as menacing goes, did you even try taking on a triple 800k bounty npc battleship spawn in your frigate ? I would think that would be menacing enough for anyone not in a higher level ship.
Your safespot was probably probed out which is why you need to make several in a system you want to rat hunt. There are ways of surviving in 0.0 and believe me once you get good at it then it becomes very difficult in Eve to catch someone that does not want to be caught unless they make a bad mistake.
I spoke of raids simply because that is generally what people consider high end pve in most other mmos and Eve simply will not have the same quality of npc raiding. That isn't to say that raiding in Eve doesn't exist rather then it is just very different. Raiding comes more in the form of fleet warfare vs other corps and alliances or POS sieges and not spending hours in a dungeon following patterns to kill a boss..
All I can really say is that Eve is game that was designed from the ground up as a pvp game first and foremost, pve is far down on the list. This isn't directed at you specifically decoy but some people in previous posts in this thread complain about the cost of pvp in Eve but in reality pvp cost is not that bad. People just think that their gear in Eve is the same as other mmos such as WoW where you take months upon months to gear up. If you were able to lose all of it with one death it would destroy most people and leave the game, where as in Eve gear just isn't as valuable and hard to replace. You fly what you can afford to lose and replace easily. If all you can afford is a simple tech 1 frigate then that's all you fly and you can be an important member in a pvp group within the first week. Sure you will lose the ship but it's very easily replaced, most corps have replacement policies in place for people who lose their ships in pvp related to corp business. You just don't go out and farm up for amonth and buy the biggest most expensive ship and gear you can get your hands on, instead you build up a little bit of a wallet, then buy and fit several ships you can afford to lose. Start small and learn and train, then move onto bigger more expensive ships if you wish to. I have played since beta on and off and while I can afford large expensive ships if I chose to fly them I prefer to fly tech 2 frigates like bombers and the electronics frigates, much more fun and pretty cheap to lose.
Feel free to ask any questions you might have, just remember these key things though. Eve is pvp and is not a game for everyone. It is a niche market game and it fills that niche extremely well providing something different to the mmo community rather than another level grind and farm clone.
I wouldn't be able to break down my play time into percentages but I will try and do it somewhat. Keep in mind I haven't been playing the game the last 4 months due to the fact that where I have been living has no internet But before that I did several things, I did some 0.0 corp fighting revolving around roaming gangs and small skirmish warfare. I flew tech 2 frigates like stealth bombers, interceptors electronics assault frigates. Id fly whichever one happened to be needed the most that night when I logged in. These ships tend to run around the 5 to 12 mil range approx before modules (I fly Minmatar ships which tend to be cheaper) . This is a relatively low cost for an advanced pvp ship when compared to battleships or heavy assault ships. Keep in mind tech 1 frigates and cruisers can be very useful and cost even less when insurance is factored in.
After a few months of the 0.0 pvp I wanted get more into the booster smuggling and exploration aspect of the game. I really couldn't break my time into percentages like I said since I just did whatever I felt like doing in the game but when I got into something I then spent all my time in game doing that activity. Sometimes I would log over to an alt on the same account and help a friend out with level 4 missions by salvaging and looting his wrecks and splitting the loot profits while I kept the money from the salvage.
i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy
both you and your friend must be pretty awful players. It is illegal in pretty much any alliance to kill the worthless 100k- rats in 0.0. If you knew how to "chain" then you would be swimming in ISK like us making millions an hour and with over 5,000m3 loot with a coupla rats down. Just one sansha rat is worth bout 1mil isk minimum once you get a chain going. That is so awful why are u wasting time killing the lil frigates no one kills those haha
No offense but you guys really need to go to EVE University or something and learn how to make ISK in 0.0 w/o bottom feeding on these lil rats that you not supposed to be even killing in the first place. I honestly hate it when people ruin chains they should be marked KOS for all alliances seriously.
So please do not discuss eve economy til you can at least learn how to "chain" seriously anyone past 3mil SP should know this
Originally posted by vajuras both you and your friend must be pretty awful players. It is illegal in pretty much any alliance to kill the worthless 100k- rats in 0.0.
Um... you must be in some pretty shit alliances then. Many/most do encourage chaining high end rats... but it's not 'illegal' in many in my personal experience. Most alliances have guidelines on how players are to deal with 'belt ownership' (IE: who has the right to BE in a belt) but it ends there. What a person does with the rats in the belt they are using is up to them. And, actually, there ARE reasons to clear belts... Officer spawns, Hauler Spawns and Faction Spawns. Which happen far far far less frequently if you chain.
That is so awful why are u wasting time killing the lil frigates no one kills those haha
Again: It depends what you are doing. Some folks chain and some folks clear every belt to try to trigger the faction/officer/hauler spawns.
So please do not discuss eve economy til you can at least learn how to "chain" seriously anyone past 3mil SP should know this
EVE's economy has very little to do with 'chaining' you can discuss the economy without knowing how to rat in 0.0. There are far better ways to make isk than ratting in 0.0.... Ratting in 0.0 is steady reliable income... but it's also the lowest level of income you can make in 0.0.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy
You think EvE's economy is centred around killing NPC's???
Its not, it is centred around the industrialists and those who buy the produced products [mainly the PvP crowd]. Industrialists mine asteroids and use the minerals to build modules and ships and ammo etc and they sell these items on the open market. Then some people come by to buy what they need [such as more ammo], and thus the cycle is made.
Asteroids - Industrialist miner - factories turn ore to items - ship destroyed in PvP or PvE - Replacement ship and modules brought off industrialist - More cash for industrialist who builds more stuff.
This is part of what makes the market work. Another aspect that helps is regional markets. Eve is very big and to travel from one end to the other takes a long time so what happens is that industialists form small trading hubs that are either close to a majour trade hub or is far away. And it is in these small hubs that you can buy many items you need [ to get others you need to travel but it really depends on local demand].
Another part of what makes the amrket good it killing NPC's Now what happens is you kill the NPC's [or actuall players] first you get a bounty then you loot them for items and then you salvage the wreck for Rig parts. All of this together makes for a fare ammount of cash and an influx of items for industialists to purchase [for example rare and common Rig parts]. The items you loot can be either refined into minerals to sell to industrialists or NPC's or in the case of the better loot [assuming you dont keep it for yourself] can be sold on the contracts market.
In the end the market is driven by Supply and demand.
Customers demand certain items in a local market.
Industrialists and NPC salvagers try to fill that demand in the local market for a price.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Originally posted by vajuras both you and your friend must be pretty awful players. It is illegal in pretty much any alliance to kill the worthless 100k- rats in 0.0.
Um... you must be in some pretty shit alliances then. Many/most do encourage chaining high end rats... but it's not 'illegal' in many in my personal experience. Most alliances have guidelines on how players are to deal with 'belt ownership' (IE: who has the right to BE in a belt) but it ends there. What a person does with the rats in the belt they are using is up to them. And, actually, there ARE reasons to clear belts... Officer spawns, Hauler Spawns and Faction Spawns. Which happen far far far less frequently if you chain.
That is so awful why are u wasting time killing the lil frigates no one kills those haha
Again: It depends what you are doing. Some folks chain and some folks clear every belt to try to trigger the faction/officer/hauler spawns.
So please do not discuss eve economy til you can at least learn how to "chain" seriously anyone past 3mil SP should know this
EVE's economy has very little to do with 'chaining' you can discuss the economy without knowing how to rat in 0.0. There are far better ways to make isk than ratting in 0.0.... Ratting in 0.0 is steady reliable income... but it's also the lowest level of income you can make in 0.0.
Did you even bother to read the post I was replying to before you responded too me? He acted like ratting had something to do with the economy in which it doesn't (it is apart of it of course but there are many other factors)
And thank you for assuming all I do is just 'rat' for ISK. I rat, explore (exploration profession), Trade, and manufacture (industry)
My personal opinion its ridiculous to even try to advise what is best way to make ISK in 0.0. It varies depending on the corp, Alliance, region, skill set of the individual, and sometimes pure luck. You don't know me or my skillset; please don't try to make yourself sound like a Zen. I say do what you enjoy in 0.0 don't do boring stuff you don't enjoy. Ratters make a very, very nice income. Myself, I get bored doing the samething over and over but if that's someone's thing then seriously just perhaps thats the best way for *them* to make ISK. I seriously think your last statement is incorrect but not worth for me to discuss further
EVE is not the game for you. Time to move on. Try Jumpgate or the coming Jumpgate Evolution. Or Anarchy Online. Or <Shudder> SWG. But forget EVE. I am afraid you do not 'get it' with that game.
NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!!!! NO SWG! BAD! BAD! DONT DO THAT! BAD!!!
I moved on. Jumpgate evolution looks good, but it isn't out yet. EVE without PvP would have about ten times the subscriber base that it does, but they seem to like being small. EVE has potential, but they are stuck in an old-fashioned paradigm. I remember when Everquest had the harsh death penalty. They had their lunch eaten by WoW. Someone is going to eat EVEs lunch and leave it in the dust.
Eve without PvP wouldn't be a game at all but a grinding simulator like WoW.
You need to get out more. WoW is old fashioned, Eve is evolution......
Look, they are adding in even more pvp with the faction warfare thing right now, so we all know just what direction they are sticking too, and what their vision is, so just sit around and wait for the next space game like everyone else instead of trying to impose your wills on this one
Comments
he is both of course...don't feed him.
I could point out a dozen things which are simply false in his "arguments". and the way he does not even react to any disprovings tell me he knows very well that he is lying.
much of his last posting is so idiotic it is almost beyond bullshit.
he is basically a troll who is running out of bait.
"larger playerbases" --- just lol
"With free moving league tables that don't end up just getting dominated by the same old faces all the time." --- this sentence contains so much dung it couldn't even be sold in Jita. I mean, everyone who has ever played EVE knows this guy is a troll. only complete noobs and people who never tried EVE may think he is not just trolling.
And that's his goal.
he doesn'T want to change EVE or to make something better, he doesn't even want to complain. he simply wants to keep people away from the game.
and anyone who really believes him, wouldn't fit in EVE anyway.
so he acts like a protective force against an invasion of morons into EVE.
I approve of him
Eve has a relatively small playerbase. Two hundred thousand? I play PvP games with smaller playerbases of course, but mostly larger.
There are any number of improvements Eve could make to it's PvP, I've gone into a few examples of what Eve's direct competition does. Including, Level caps, Instancing, ability streaming and max level starting toons.These are all tricks of the trade that current gen MMO's employ that Eve could learn from and incorporate (should the dev's ever manage to stop licking their balls long enough to get back to their keyboards). This is just on the game balance side. Clearly there are also tricks to be learned on the game mechanic front also such as use of the enviroment and 3 dimensional positioning that would add a little much need complexity to the fights. We could also go to the technical aspects of networking and the now prevalence of broadband, 56k data size is no longer a design constraint, substantial complexity can be added.
All I keep hearing from the "fanboys" (if I'm a troll, that must make you a fanboy), is how Eve is a niche game, if you don't like it sod off. Like little dogs peeing on their lamp posts. It's not me that is being a protective force, it's not me that isn't suggesting how to improve Eve. Neither do I want to keep people away from the game, (although I obviously wish for certain elements of the games players to stay away from me). I'm not about exclusivity. I'm about inclusivity. Something for everyone. It's not me suiggesting there is no place for PvE players. This game is stagnant and the players in their little hierarchy wish for it to stay that way. Any suggestions that it should be different will garner their anger. Is some moron suggesting that the other newer players you seek to dominate all have a more even chance against you?
Boo hoo. How terrible.
As for all those alliances that have died solely for this purpose. What a load of overly dramatised claptrap. My god man, listen to yourself. I used to speak like that when I was 12. The whole universe revolving around whatever it was I happened to be focusing on at that moment in time.
Clan's die everyday. It's normal part of human relations. They died for Eve PvP? No. They just died. Some key players left, or they all fell out with eachother. No one actually died. Their "deaths" are meaningless. It's just a game they were playing because they were bored. Who knows, perhaps they died of frustraton. Perhaps they felt they couldn't achieve anything because another clan had them resouce locked.
Sorry folks, but you lack perspective. Eve's the best multiplayer space sim on the market but nothing like the best PvP.
Baff, you've (along with a few of us 'fanbois' here) descended from conversation into pure flaming and crying. Insulting the game, its devs and its players don't a good argument make. This applies to the other folk too, keep it civil despite the rage that makes you want to tear the carpet off the floor with your teeth. Go punch a bag for a while before you post. I'll go take my own advice now....
Back. Baff, I also find it condescending from you that you assume you know the motivations of all EVE players: "It's a game they play because they are bored." With that, you take from EVE players any other possible motivation for playing except what is, by your stated perspective, apparently excruciating boredom, on which a welcome delight would be to fill the IRS tax forms.
Look at it this way: In FPS or RTS 'match style' games, the objective is to perform better by your own skills, to figure out a new strategy to win the next 'round' on a relatively level playing field where all rules are known and all possible maneuvers too. This applies to Guild Wars and to WoW too, in general. Their PVP is such a 'formulated' sport, after a fashion, and that's one reason why it hasn't interested me. When I want to play a 'sporting' game, I'll go for the FPS's.
Real-world analogy for these games would be sports, individual and team-based. Sorta. After all, you'll spend quite the same time playing football to be good at it as you'd spend in learning to be a real pro in Counterstrike or any dozen other games.
EVE is a hobby. The objective is... Well, whatever you want it to be. For alliances, it is generally to build the biggest, richest, bestest alliance they can. There are only a few hard rules, known to all, and lots of rules people suppose are rules, but can, in fact, be something else entirely.
People put in tremendous effort because it's a hobby. The same thing applies to the guy who builds miniature battle re-enactments with little tin soldiers in his basement, or who has a major minirailroad project he spends every saturday building.
Or to the people who make costumes, go to renfaires or LARP, or spend their free time sitting around a table playing boardgames or rolling dice and imagining other worlds and stories. Or to the people who spend time tuning up their cars, building them into strange and powerful, or just beautiful machines.
They don't really compete with one another, except in big, big competitions where there are judges and, possibly, votes from the crowd, for measuring up against other peoples creativity and getting new ideas for your own thing.
Now, EVE has combat too, because as much as it is a sandbox, it's also a competitive sandbox with limited resources. Why? Because it is fun. Because there are people who like the challenge, who like to build their groups and be able to wrest control from others. Because if you didn't have competition, it wouldn't be a sandbox.
The important thing is that it's not a sport. If it were, you'd have some sort of 'reset' button for it that would clear and level the playing field between matches. Star Sonata, which is a fun space MMO btw, has that. Whenever someone wins, the universe resets.
We all play games because we are bored.
They are entertainmant packages.
Why do you consider this condescending? Are you a professional gamer?
Now I agree with you most wholeheartdly that people enjoy PvP in Eve. And that quite frankly if it floats your boat, go for it. Likewise I feel the same way about those who do not. I'm one of them.
And I concur that the objective for alliances tends to be advancement. I consider this to be the core element of Eve gameplay. It's an Rpg, the prime lure is to get more powerful, richer, influential etc.
This for me is fun too.
P.S., it's not until we discuss Eve's theme and networking genius that you will see the fanboy in me. I am one, but undernourished sandbox PvP isn't something I get impressed by.
I can go with your reasoning about Eve not being a sport, as I mentioned earlier this is a perfectly respectable justification of enjoying Eve's PvP in my opinion. It's when I here crys of it's a well balanced game primarily designed for PvP that I beg to differ. While for some people PvP is what makes Eve great. for myself it is the weakest link. The one part of the game that I can find significantly better from other sources.
I would of course consider the inclusion of sporting arena's an improvement to Eve's gameplay as it would cater to this crowd and provide more options for diverse play. I think this is a trick found in all other MMORPG's that Eve dev's have ignored. And I'll insult them again for this. I think they are lazy. More is more. The more they add, the better the game. Calling it a sandbox, doesn't mean you get to stop working.
I can't say I disagree with you on that too much. I sort of have a grudge against that 'Entertainment package' -thinking, since it tends to make both consumers and producers think of Online games in the same way as single-player games, with content that is produced and consumed.
It's an easy way of thinking, but it's also stagnated and boring IMO. I don't want to play an online game where everything I do is spoonfed to me by the devs, and the only choices I need to make are 'do I need a group to do this content or do I try it alone'. This is more then slightly Off-Topic though, but we've gone so far we can't even see the original topic anymore, so...
I want my games to have dynamic, player-created content. Content I can be a part of in creating, and content I can fight against, to strive to change it into what I want it to be. Few games allow this, EVE being in the forefront of those. There's a couple of others in development that will be even closer to my ideal.
The 'something for everybody'-concept has its merits, but what about me? The sort of gameplay you describe as 'ideal' is to me as 'stagnated and boring' as EVE is to you. Instancing was originally created as a way to save on system resources at the server/bandwidth end, but now it's touted as the way of making content. 'Raiding' that resembles a football match, yes, I can see the interest but not so much when there's games that do it better (FPS's and RTS's played vs. other players). These things aren't new, they were around when EVE was created, and have been conciously not installed into EVE.
PVE in EVE itself is, I admit, pretty basic. I'd like to have more of it, perhaps some PVE that would involve big player groups (such as supplying an NPC station in distress or providing an escort to an NPC freighter group), and a lot more (and more varied) individual missions, perhaps even a 'storyline' that could go on through the so-called 'storyline' missions. Mining is, apparently, getting an overhaul, or at least it's in the works, and that's good too. We just need to be very careful that what now works (PVP, The Market, Manufacturing etc.) isn't borked by anything we add.
And as for EVE's size and stagnation? It keeps on growing. It's currently the only game in the world where over 40 000 people have been online in a single game world at the same time. That's big. That's humongous. And EVE's already breached 200 000 subscribers, not much by the numbers of WOW, but fairly impressive for such a 'niche' game.
Does EVE need to grow? Yes. Does it do so without making huge modifications that would certainly alienate most of current playerbase? Yes. Do we want CCP to fix what isn't broken? No. This is why EVE is a niche game, and why we 'enthusiasts' like it to stay that way. Oh, and because we do love the game, and don't want to change it beyond recognition.
I can perfectly agree with you on the sporting arenas issue: It would IMO not act as a detriment in the game, but as an improvement. I don't think having arenas would magically make all PVPers disappear from alliance space or all issues between corps/alliances be decided within those Arenas. I think an EVE 'pvp-arena ladder' is a good idea. Although, nothing really prevents you from organizing that in EVE right now, does it? I can see plenty of ways to do it without instancing or any mechanical changes to the game. Just go ahead and do it.
However, calling EVE devs lazy is... Well, it is insulting to anyone who sees how much stuff and effort they put into their game all the time. Just because the devs don't implement your vision of improvements into the game doesn't mean they aren't doing anything. Check out the new Trinity improvements, or the big 'ambulation' addition that they are currently working on, you can't say that they've stopped working and are now lounging in the bahamas smoking big cigars and drinking pina coladas from coconuts.
And I disagree with you on the PVP balance issue. I find EVE's PVP almost too balanced, in a way. However, it is also so multifaceted that a single tactic often has several counters, and thus there are ways to decide what you want to do based on what you have to work with. There are, however, very stagnated ideas on 'what works' going on in the playerbase: Several people still think Warp Stabs are 'cheating' or even useful in PVP setups, while the recent nerfs and introduction of bubbles have made them all but obsolete. Similarly, many people feel that a close-range fleet is useless, but there are ways to use blasterships in the deeps that many haven't even begun to think about.
There's a new idea going around that would make sniper ships about as obsolete as Warp Stabs, but it requires a bit more discipline and training then is reasonable to assume a big 'blob' fleet could manage. We'll see how it goes down.
It's certainly more options then any other game I've ever played, and that, I think, is a good thing.
i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy
D
I don't mind PvP, the problem coes in when players engage in it in unfair ways such as was brought up the "gate camping". then again its always the few who ruin the fun of the many.
the sad truth is that according to this thread (yes i read all of it) everyone seems to agree that the whole eve experience relys on such things
D
"i hear alot of people say things about eves economy, and i dont think alot of it is true, eve has a terrible economy, most rats in 0.0 space only give 100k in bounty, you would be lucky to get any more than 200k from any one asteroid field through that. then suddently when a group of 15 people come by you and kill you, well you better dam hope that you had killed 2 THOUSAND rats before they did that, or else you just lost out on continuing to play the same game for the next month or more.
my friend plays this game all the time, and he says that over the past year he has bought online nearly 2 billion isk, sorry folks, but when you have to buy online money to be competitive in a game, that is just not a very good economy"
100 - 200k per belt in 0.0 ? Most belts i've seen in 0.0 will get you atleast 250k for the shittiest belts and upwards to 1.5mil and in rare faction spawns even more. Plus there is loot and salvage to add to the money. As far as 15 people coming by and jumping you goes, did you not see local chat fill up with people ? If you did then why didn't you warp to a safe spot ? And if you didn't see local fill up then why were you not watching it ?
If your friend bought over 2bil isk then he needs to learn how to play the game. Hell I pay for my game time with in game money. I can make enough money from running some level 4 agent missions for a week to pay for 3 months play time.
How did you manage to necro this thread so badly ?
"I don't mind PvP, the problem coes in when players engage in it in unfair ways such as was brought up the "gate camping". then again its always the few who ruin the fun of the many."
Gate camps can be avoided. Check your map for ships destroyed at the chokepoints into low sec and 0.0 space. Most smaller fast to align ships can run most gate camps, ships like industrials and battleships have a more difficult time.
"the sad truth is that according to this thread (yes i read all of it) everyone seems to agree that the whole eve experience relys on such things"
I wouldn't call it a sad truth at all but it is a truth, Eve relys on the pvp system in place to make everything else work. If CCP all of a sudden turned around and made a PvE friendly server with only consentual pvp and no gear loss Eve would be a dead game instead of slowly growing in numbers like it has over the years.
Eve would need a complete redesign from the ground up to include "raid' type environments. This is just silly when theres a million other mmos out there that already do this type of gameplay and do it better than CCP probably ever could. CCP has an amazing PvP based mmo and is successful, whether or not it caters to a particular type of player or attract the numbers doesn't mean a thing. Just because other mmos such as Wow (example cause its so easy to pick out) are wildly popular among the general gaming market it does not mean that you can plug WoWs design into another game world environment and it will work. It would be like saying baseball sucks so lets make the players allowed to tackle baserunners and kick field goals after scoring a run. Its just stupid.
Eve has a steep harsh learning curve but unlike other pvp games the players intelligence counts alot more than being levelled high enough and having the right gear.
I still cannot believe this thread got necro'd to the top
if you absolutely must know i googled eve nonpvp and got this thread.
shure i can understand safe spots, but what i dont understand is how an mmo can be made with so little variety, shure, its easier to make nice landscapes and such in a fantasy mmo, but thats no excuse for a space game, why is there so much of the same thing? even the lamest mmo has alot of variety in at least the npcs to fight, shure, there are only so many ways to make a spaceship, but that dosent mean that you cant come up with some sort of menacing npcs to fight, a month into the game and i was already going into 0.0 space, fighting the same looking ships.
not to compair one space game to another, but sword of the stars at least had a few unique space faring threats that mixed the game up a bit, heck even a dangerous nebula, or a space faring hive life form would do wonders to have interested me in this game, but after 3 months of the game, one of it spent in 0.0 space (oh and btw i did jump to a safe spot, twice, idk what they did to find me, maby i shoulda jumped to the station) i really dident see too much variety in the enviorment.
shure its a space game, and its supposed to be black, and empty, and full of dark hopelessness, but thats no reason not to throw a few energy based enemys, or a couple of organized threats that roam the dangerous space (not players).
i dunno why i even bothered to type this, im probably just going to get flamed anyways. there is no reason why the game cant have more non pvp content, but of course that is blasphemy.
EDIT: and why speak of raids when the game dosent have the basics down yet for pve?
also, there is no "other mmo" when it comes to space, if there were options, i promise you i would not waste your time
D
Eh, wrong game buddy. EVE is all about ganking and what not. Like it, or leave.
sounds like fun
+1?
D
The game has an incrediable (unrivaled?) amount of depth and if you don't like ganking you don't have to do it , though you still need to be prepared for those that do.
I'm not gonna flame you and neither would most Eve players, instead I will take the time to answer and questions you might have and point out any mistakes you have made about the game.
Regarding the variety of npcs, there is actually quite a bit of variety in the npcs. Different areas of space have different types but the biggest variety would be in the hidden exploration sites. The variety is out there but you have to go find it. As far as menacing goes, did you even try taking on a triple 800k bounty npc battleship spawn in your frigate ? I would think that would be menacing enough for anyone not in a higher level ship.
Your safespot was probably probed out which is why you need to make several in a system you want to rat hunt. There are ways of surviving in 0.0 and believe me once you get good at it then it becomes very difficult in Eve to catch someone that does not want to be caught unless they make a bad mistake.
I spoke of raids simply because that is generally what people consider high end pve in most other mmos and Eve simply will not have the same quality of npc raiding. That isn't to say that raiding in Eve doesn't exist rather then it is just very different. Raiding comes more in the form of fleet warfare vs other corps and alliances or POS sieges and not spending hours in a dungeon following patterns to kill a boss..
All I can really say is that Eve is game that was designed from the ground up as a pvp game first and foremost, pve is far down on the list. This isn't directed at you specifically decoy but some people in previous posts in this thread complain about the cost of pvp in Eve but in reality pvp cost is not that bad. People just think that their gear in Eve is the same as other mmos such as WoW where you take months upon months to gear up. If you were able to lose all of it with one death it would destroy most people and leave the game, where as in Eve gear just isn't as valuable and hard to replace. You fly what you can afford to lose and replace easily. If all you can afford is a simple tech 1 frigate then that's all you fly and you can be an important member in a pvp group within the first week. Sure you will lose the ship but it's very easily replaced, most corps have replacement policies in place for people who lose their ships in pvp related to corp business. You just don't go out and farm up for amonth and buy the biggest most expensive ship and gear you can get your hands on, instead you build up a little bit of a wallet, then buy and fit several ships you can afford to lose. Start small and learn and train, then move onto bigger more expensive ships if you wish to. I have played since beta on and off and while I can afford large expensive ships if I chose to fly them I prefer to fly tech 2 frigates like bombers and the electronics frigates, much more fun and pretty cheap to lose.
Feel free to ask any questions you might have, just remember these key things though. Eve is pvp and is not a game for everyone. It is a niche market game and it fills that niche extremely well providing something different to the mmo community rather than another level grind and farm clone.
in all honesty, if you had to divide the total time you spend playing eve, what would you list in percents as to what you spend your time doing?
also i am interested in hearing more about these inexpensive tech 2 ships
D
I wouldn't be able to break down my play time into percentages but I will try and do it somewhat. Keep in mind I haven't been playing the game the last 4 months due to the fact that where I have been living has no internet
But before that I did several things, I did some 0.0 corp fighting revolving around roaming gangs and small skirmish warfare. I flew tech 2 frigates like stealth bombers, interceptors electronics assault frigates. Id fly whichever one happened to be needed the most that night when I logged in. These ships tend to run around the 5 to 12 mil range approx before modules (I fly Minmatar ships which tend to be cheaper) . This is a relatively low cost for an advanced pvp ship when compared to battleships or heavy assault ships. Keep in mind tech 1 frigates and cruisers can be very useful and cost even less when insurance is factored in.
After a few months of the 0.0 pvp I wanted get more into the booster smuggling and exploration aspect of the game. I really couldn't break my time into percentages like I said since I just did whatever I felt like doing in the game but when I got into something I then spent all my time in game doing that activity. Sometimes I would log over to an alt on the same account and help a friend out with level 4 missions by salvaging and looting his wrecks and splitting the loot profits while I kept the money from the salvage.
both you and your friend must be pretty awful players. It is illegal in pretty much any alliance to kill the worthless 100k- rats in 0.0. If you knew how to "chain" then you would be swimming in ISK like us making millions an hour and with over 5,000m3 loot with a coupla rats down. Just one sansha rat is worth bout 1mil isk minimum once you get a chain going. That is so awful why are u wasting time killing the lil frigates no one kills those haha
No offense but you guys really need to go to EVE University or something and learn how to make ISK in 0.0 w/o bottom feeding on these lil rats that you not supposed to be even killing in the first place. I honestly hate it when people ruin chains they should be marked KOS for all alliances seriously.
So please do not discuss eve economy til you can at least learn how to "chain" seriously anyone past 3mil SP should know this
Um... you must be in some pretty shit alliances then. Many/most do encourage chaining high end rats... but it's not 'illegal' in many in my personal experience. Most alliances have guidelines on how players are to deal with 'belt ownership' (IE: who has the right to BE in a belt) but it ends there. What a person does with the rats in the belt they are using is up to them.
And, actually, there ARE reasons to clear belts... Officer spawns, Hauler Spawns and Faction Spawns. Which happen far far far less frequently if you chain.
Again: It depends what you are doing. Some folks chain and some folks clear every belt to try to trigger the faction/officer/hauler spawns.
EVE's economy has very little to do with 'chaining' you can discuss the economy without knowing how to rat in 0.0. There are far better ways to make isk than ratting in 0.0.... Ratting in 0.0 is steady reliable income... but it's also the lowest level of income you can make in 0.0."A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Its not, it is centred around the industrialists and those who buy the produced products [mainly the PvP crowd]. Industrialists mine asteroids and use the minerals to build modules and ships and ammo etc and they sell these items on the open market. Then some people come by to buy what they need [such as more ammo], and thus the cycle is made.
Asteroids - Industrialist miner - factories turn ore to items - ship destroyed in PvP or PvE - Replacement ship and modules brought off industrialist - More cash for industrialist who builds more stuff.
This is part of what makes the market work. Another aspect that helps is regional markets. Eve is very big and to travel from one end to the other takes a long time so what happens is that industialists form small trading hubs that are either close to a majour trade hub or is far away. And it is in these small hubs that you can buy many items you need [ to get others you need to travel but it really depends on local demand].
Another part of what makes the amrket good it killing NPC's Now what happens is you kill the NPC's [or actuall players] first you get a bounty then you loot them for items and then you salvage the wreck for Rig parts. All of this together makes for a fare ammount of cash and an influx of items for industialists to purchase [for example rare and common Rig parts]. The items you loot can be either refined into minerals to sell to industrialists or NPC's or in the case of the better loot [assuming you dont keep it for yourself] can be sold on the contracts market.
In the end the market is driven by Supply and demand.
Customers demand certain items in a local market.
Industrialists and NPC salvagers try to fill that demand in the local market for a price.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Um... you must be in some pretty shit alliances then. Many/most do encourage chaining high end rats... but it's not 'illegal' in many in my personal experience. Most alliances have guidelines on how players are to deal with 'belt ownership' (IE: who has the right to BE in a belt) but it ends there. What a person does with the rats in the belt they are using is up to them.
And, actually, there ARE reasons to clear belts... Officer spawns, Hauler Spawns and Faction Spawns. Which happen far far far less frequently if you chain.
Again: It depends what you are doing. Some folks chain and some folks clear every belt to try to trigger the faction/officer/hauler spawns.
EVE's economy has very little to do with 'chaining' you can discuss the economy without knowing how to rat in 0.0. There are far better ways to make isk than ratting in 0.0.... Ratting in 0.0 is steady reliable income... but it's also the lowest level of income you can make in 0.0.Did you even bother to read the post I was replying to before you responded too me? He acted like ratting had something to do with the economy in which it doesn't (it is apart of it of course but there are many other factors)
And thank you for assuming all I do is just 'rat' for ISK. I rat, explore (exploration profession), Trade, and manufacture (industry)
My personal opinion its ridiculous to even try to advise what is best way to make ISK in 0.0. It varies depending on the corp, Alliance, region, skill set of the individual, and sometimes pure luck. You don't know me or my skillset; please don't try to make yourself sound like a Zen. I say do what you enjoy in 0.0 don't do boring stuff you don't enjoy. Ratters make a very, very nice income. Myself, I get bored doing the samething over and over but if that's someone's thing then seriously just perhaps thats the best way for *them* to make ISK. I seriously think your last statement is incorrect but not worth for me to discuss further
NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!!!! NO SWG! BAD! BAD! DONT DO THAT! BAD!!!
J. B.
Eve without PvP wouldn't be a game at all but a grinding simulator like WoW.
You need to get out more. WoW is old fashioned, Eve is evolution......
Virtual world sandboxes rock!
Oh my, EvE without pvp, i cant imagine that. Eve is based on war , thats point in game . Strong survive, weak die. Its like in RL.
Look, they are adding in even more pvp with the faction warfare thing right now, so we all know just what direction they are sticking too, and what their vision is, so just sit around and wait for the next space game like everyone else instead of trying to impose your wills on this one