Say whatever you want about AoC, the game might not be as good as the hype makes it out to be but one thing is for sure, its already better than DarkFall. You keep on trolling each other in the darkfall forums for another decade maybe by the time you're all 40 you'll realize you've been had.
Allim going to say is alot of people are going to be getting alot of i told you so here farily soon
I agree. Just try not to get too angry when I say "Told you so!".
Still dont understand how they can talk shit , when weve seen more of AoC than darkfall in the what 7 years its been in development.
Darkfall devs take your heads out of your asses and show us something, then your trash talking will mean something until then you guys are just a bunch of tools who are wasting money and dont have anything but a few screnshots to show.
The game are still in alpha, so don't expect to much.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
I mean exactly what I said. They do not have the amount of media that any other company would have before going into beta. Its not just about hype man, its about showcasing the game for the players. Its been done this way since the birth of gaming media. Consoles do it, Pc games do it, MMO's...ESPECIALLY do it. The issue is that, words mean nothing in this industry. Early on in gaming history...words could sell something. Now, we've all played plenty of flops and broken promises. Hence the reason for all the gaming media you see about games in development. They have had nothing to show. They haven't even attended gaming conventions to showcase their product on a business level....I have NO doubts they will fail to present one on a consumer level as well. All in due time. Tasos promised us a video about Conquest on last developer journal. That will hopefully show us a game that is almost fully done. If you dont like Darkfall approach to PR is your call. This have been known to all followers that they dont do advertisments campaigns before game is about to release. And since they dont put zillions on marketing they wont need 1 million subs to make some good bucks. And personally i think Darkfall get alot of freebee advertisment on the net. If game deliver the rumour will spread like a wildfire on the net. Add some advertisment before release and the game will be home. I cannot fathom why you think he is scared. His game will be release this year. WILL. On top of that they already have money slamming in from pre-orders. So, they aren't afraid financially...thats for sure. Oh, and there is that whole "level/class" thing THEY are running with. I'm sure the important parts of this are gonna get lost on you...but I'll try anyway. Level/class? Yeah, its the mainstream system. On average....most players that already play in such an MMO, prefer such an MMO. It doesn't matter that both DF and AoC are KIND of PvP oriented. One is very obviously mass appeal in its market strategy...the other very obviously niche. They are from two entirely different spectrums...in fact, the players who are even remotely interested in darkfall wouldn't have given AoC a second glance anyway. I know I certainly haven't. Aye your right, MMORPG games took a very bad turn with the release of the mainstream game WoW. Played if for a year and found myself in a endgame of forever raiding, grinding. Just boring and the kids of today dont have anything to compare it with. Ultima Online was something else. A player driven, dynamic world with consequences, a quality game. Darkfall will if they succeed to deliver all features with little bugs be another quality game as Ultima was. This of course scares the shit out of any competitioners. Its something else and whether Darkfall subs will stay low on a success release or be alot bigger then you think is still to be seen. 500K subs on a successful release with all features working smoothly will be the least number of subs they bring in. Alot larger then AoC is something i count on. So of course they is worried. Read this nice article about the dynamic World, its a nice one and you might pick up a piece or two if your interested. http://www.guildcafe.com/Vox/04073-Smith-Dynamic-Worlds.html As for the attack, it wasn't an attack. It was a point-blank statement of truth which was made in regard to THEIR players suggesting they should take some DF elements. He essentially said that there WAS no DF. Nor, in turn, was there any example of a game which could pull such a list of things off successfully. He didn't just sit down one day and write a blog to trash your vaporware. They brought it up, he said his piece about it. Considering his team is a seasoned and traveled development machine...I'm inclined to believe him when he thinks its a stretch that some small group can make all of that happen. Its neither here nor there....because THIS boils down to politics. Personally, I like to keep my politics and my gaming separate. Bottom line, I don't honestly CARE if he was trashing on somet other game. I am not interested in how "nice" or "well-behaved" these devs are. All I care is that they churn out a fun game. Since I'm not even interested IN their game...I'm even LESS inclined to care about the politics of some comment made a year ago. Darkfall is a game under development. How far they succeeded in bringing the game close to beta and release is anybodies guess. That Age of Conan developer that talked BS about Darkfall sure dont have the faintest clue what he is talking about. Nor do you. AoC developer BS-talked Darkfall developers from a standpoint of knowing nothing. As i said earlier, your just babbling about what you presume, what you think, what others done before and on and on. Nothing of what you say about Darkfall can be confirmed in any way. I even asked you for some info backing your assumption earlier and you came up with zip.=) You don't have to "lower" yourself to those class/level piles of trash. There are plenty of other Sandboxes in development right now....go figure, turns out ITS now the powerword of the week. Most of them, in fact, already have more information about their game up...and more visible examples of their ACTUAL work being done. Oh, and there is also the matter of them actually attending gaming conventions and applicable business gatherings to prove they are...i dunno...REAL. Earthrise? The game with safezones. Well its nothing for the hardcore PvP:ers. Thought you knew that.=) And attending gaming conventions dont make your game any better. Its way better they actually put there workload and funds on making as a good game as possible instead. And that is exactly what theyre doing. Didnt you read Tasos explaining there way of prioritating? http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2813-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-21-Community-Q-A [QUOTE] Tasos Flambouras- Giant budgets and giant advertising campaigns demand giant paydays. We definitely don't need to be a World of Warcraft killer to be successful, but the same may not be true about some of the other games in development. When faced with the question of budget allocation we decided that it's more important for us to first make as good a game as possible and then to market it on its merit. The opposite doesn't work in the long run, and quality would be compromised by taking some of the development resources and throwing them into marketing so we're betting everything on our strength. We couldn't compete with some of the large titles when it comes to marketing since it all comes down to dollars and cents, but we can still make one hell of a game. [/QUOTE] As for why I personally "jump" on you...thats rather simple. If the ONLY fanbase this company had would balls up and actually start demanding they ACT like a gaming company with something to show...they MIGHT take a hint and start really greasing the gears a little. It would also take care of their little lying habit they've been prone to over the last several years. Worst case scenario...if they STILL acted like turds, then these other teams that are working on games which are cut from the same cloth as DF will definitely step up their game to secure the players that Darkfall refuses to actually TRY and keep. Its a win-win scenario...and creates a situation that can only be GOOD for the market. Darkfall developers have always had good enough communication with the fans. Some want more of course and some dont have patience to wait. Nothing strange with that. I could count 205 developer journals and info from them on the news section on Darkfall board. Videos about gameplay, battles and last one about cities&locations. And one about Conquest to come soon. You gotta understand that a small company like Aventurine which dont prioritate giant advertisment campaigns dont act like the large dragons of game developing as for example Blizzard. They just dont act like them. Aventurine have a different approach and i salute them for sticking to it. Are you serious? Because, for someone who is as supposedly supportive of this team as you say you are, you certainly don't show any interest in the companies history at all. Why in the deuce WOULDN'T you be curious, and thus have already investigated this yourself, about the qualifications of the team? I'll stop with the pointless "mini-attacks". They are not some "new" company. They have been together for some time...and have been making other products for some time now. Matter of fact, if memory serves, they were doing work for their country's military right before they began considering an MMO. I won't be bothered with linking info to you. Frankly, if you REALLY think this company is awesome you should have no qualms about doing this research yourself. Google the names of the companies involved....that should bring up all the basic info you would need. Hell, if you're lucky it might even bring up some yearly financial records too. I'll leave you with that. I can assure you, I'm not "making" anything up. The devs were very open about their company history, they might even still have the posts up that had them telling us what they have done in the past. I just can't believe that you were in disbelief when I said it. I really expected you "superfans" to at least know some very basics about the guys making your "holy grail". By the by, I can write a blog about some great game ideals too. I have, even. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to be the tourch bearer to the future of MMO gaming. You guys are REALLY going deep into left-field with some of the talk you spin. No need to lecture me about Aventurine SA and the history. On this thread i had some discussion about the company Aventurine SA. So im quite well informed and did my research on the company. http://df.warcry.com/news/view/68059 I quote Tasos Flambouras- [QUOTE] Aventurine currently employs 24 developers in-house and six professional contractors. The staff is international from Norway, Greece, Italy, the UK, the US, Denmark, and France. Its activities, other than Darkfall, are research into game and simulation technologies. We've also advised war-game simulation military projects in the past through other companies in our group, activities that have given us some valuable perspectives to be used in game development. The company also sponsors and supports sporting events, athletes, and competitive gaming tournaments. Aventurine is organized under the laws of Greece and the European Union as an S.A. Corporation. [/QUOTE] http://df.warcry.com/news/view/68059-Developer-Journal-1-About-Adventurine%22]Darkfall%20Journal%201%20ΓÇô%20About%20Aventurine Here you have another one on Darkfall developers where im quite active in. Didnt see your name there though.=) http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/170005
First, they did not "start" over in 2004. They went through a graphical upgrade because development was taking so long their old stuff looked like ass. So, right out the gate....I have to deal with some more lies around here to cover up for the fact that this dev team is junk.
Second, there is not going to be a beta this year. I don't care what some PR pusher from DF told you. They do not have the sort of media ready for teh community that any other game about to hit beta would have. Any assertion that they are simply "hiding" that kind of media is bull as well. They have nothing to hide....any material they are working on would have been copyrighted the moment it stopped being on paper only. No game company in their right mind refuses to showcase their product "just because".
Third, the AoC guy was perfectly in the right for his comments. If you bothered to read into CONTEXT...you would see it all came as a response to constant posts about making the game more like what darkfall promises. What he asserts is that, promises are pretty empty when they don't even have half a game to show for all the promises they have made. Reading between the lines also teaches us that he is suggesting that half of the stuff DF promised is pretty "out there" and that even a FULL dev team like they have on AoC probably couldn't pull all of that off with the polish needed to be successful. He is DEAD RIGHT.
Last, but not least, you people talking about "loyatly" are real dumb. For starters, anyone can talk a good talk...and I can assure you that not even half of them are anywhere near deserving of loyalty at all. Beyond that, this is not some kind of cult...mmkay? They are a company, and they make products for consumers. The whole premise behind consumer loyalty is that they offer repeat business at the exclusion of others to a company which has proven to provide them with a quality product. DF doesn't exist, and its team has not delivered you ANY product....or even respectable information about what products they MIGHT be offering you later. All that your "loyalty" does is spread their name in a massive PR hype which serves MOSTLY to help their business in their other projects. It does not get you a game, in fact....considering the sheer marketing potential of such "loyalty" I'd wager it could be very profitable to NEVER MAKE A GAME AT ALL. They save tons of dev costs...and get to be a worldwide hot topic term so that everything else they are making is easier to push.
I decided to break the "quote" thing we were doing to shorten the text on screen for a moment. I realized that if I did it this time we'd have a page-long post with only minimal text new each time, lol.
To begin, there are other titles in the works besides Earthrise which are gunning for the same concept of a Sandbox game. I may go dig up some of the names for you later to give you something to look at...though you may have already seen some of them since its obvious we like the same types of games. Its early, and I just woke up and am about to get ready for work....so the only one I can think of amidst the head grog is Well. The are others...most are talked about daily in the SWG vet forum actually. Which...is why I think you may have at least been exposed to a few of them already.
Since you do know that Adventurine is involved in other projects...I guess my point was made about that. People keep trying to argue with me that Adventurine have only EVER been doing darkfall....and thats just not true. In fact....almost NO MMO team started with an MMO. Its just to hard to get into this market...and the costs (even for small teams with no advertising) are high. If you aren't taking a publisher...you NEED to have other projects to jumpstart the business. Besides...as you and I both know they are very open about it anyway. They have never stated that DF was the only thing they have ever done.
As for your advertising comment...you do realize that there are a plethora of free mediums they can use to showcase game media in an effort to actually validate player concerns right? They don't have to pay a dime really, not if they didn't want to. The lack of media about their game has nothing to do with cutting ad costs. Most good gaming conventions also do not carry a fee for the devs....because these conventions NEED game creators to be there in order to draw ticket sales. If you don't think they are ducking out when it comes to showing off the game...I don't know what I can say. Being a small team has nothing to do with it....it would take one coffee jockey 3 minutes with fraps on a house server to get a solid gameplay video. Anything to show all of the game elements working together and functioning.
As for the "fear" comment...I stand by what I said. some 15 million players are playing the level/class thing and 3-4 million of them have been doing so since the dawn of MMO's. The rest are WoW pop-culture junkies...so I'm not going to include them. Its still not certain they will stick to the genre once it stops being pop-culture again lol. The players whom liked Ultima Online are still playing it...or moved on to other games that were similar. Very few moved on to Class/level grinds. Players in MMO's are generally closed minded and stick to what they know. FFA PVP keeps the vast majority away because noob griefing is WAYY to common. No major company trying to play up to the "easy cheesy and ganker free" crowd is afraid of losing them to DF.
Ultima might be scared. SWG might be scared. EVE might be scared. AoC is scared of WAR and Blizzards new project. Even if DF is a major success its still not gonna be stealing players from the WoW model of gaming. You'll find most of your playerbase to be old SWG, Ultima, and EVE fans that liked fantasy a lot more than space. Not old EQ fans that decided classes and levels sucked.
I can garrentee beta this year if it doesnt happen im not going to follow it either just play something else
On the Darkfall website a new Press Release just appeared! They are hiring 20 more developers and are in talks with a Publisher. As for the reason for this unexpected move they stated: downtoearth wouldn't play Darkfall if we don't have a Beta this year.
LOL!
Reading any post he makes is hard on the eyes. He has zero grammer skills, can't spell, runs sentences on & on and doesn't capitalize any words. If he's older than 12, I feel sorry for him. LOL!
Anyway, I've seen dozens of his posts and he's ALWAYS "garrenteeing" (correctly spelled = guaranteeing) something. In most cases he's smug and gives you a wink, like he actually "knows" inside information.
I will "garrentee" (correctly spelled = guarantee) something. We will be re-reading this post this exact time next year, and he and others like him, will still be posting their so called wisdom for us all to cherish. Meanwhile, there will still be no Darkfall.
It is because Darkfall will put AoC out of buisness if it releases within a year of eachother. People won't be established enough in AoC to care, and leave. That is what AoC is worried about so they make jokes out of fear for their jobs. I don't blame them, I would be scared of Darkfall too if I had to compete against it.
No one has to compete against Darkfall... because there is no Darkfall, and there will be no Darkfall. That's the beauty of it.
Seven years in alpha. That's got to be some kind of record for dev ineptitude.
Say whatever you want about AoC, the game might not be as good as the hype makes it out to be but one thing is for sure, its already better than DarkFall. You keep on trolling each other in the darkfall forums for another decade maybe by the time you're all 40 you'll realize you've been had.
Allim going to say is alot of people are going to be getting alot of i told you so here farily soon
LOL!
Thank you for proving my point.
You can clearly see what I was stating above. The grammer, the smugness, the "you will see cause I know the real facts" attitude.
Nothing blows up quicker than a DF thread it seems.
Of course they take cheap shots at each other, this is the era of World Wide Wrestling, where everyone has to talk smack, its part of the code now. Silly really, but I suppose its been going on forever now.
At this point, no one can talk until a game is actually released (and neither company has done so yet). AOC appears to be closer than DF of course (much closer actually) however its not released yet, so there's nothing to really discuss until they do.
I don't care, I'll play them both when available, and stick with the one thats more fun.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I decided to break the "quote" thing we were doing to shorten the text on screen for a moment. I realized that if I did it this time we'd have a page-long post with only minimal text new each time, lol.
To begin, there are other titles in the works besides Earthrise which are gunning for the same concept of a Sandbox game. I may go dig up some of the names for you later to give you something to look at...though you may have already seen some of them since its obvious we like the same types of games. Its early, and I just woke up and am about to get ready for work....so the only one I can think of amidst the head grog is Well. The are others...most are talked about daily in the SWG vet forum actually. Which...is why I think you may have at least been exposed to a few of them already.
Since you do know that Adventurine is involved in other projects...I guess my point was made about that. People keep trying to argue with me that Adventurine have only EVER been doing darkfall....and thats just not true. In fact....almost NO MMO team started with an MMO. Its just to hard to get into this market...and the costs (even for small teams with no advertising) are high. If you aren't taking a publisher...you NEED to have other projects to jumpstart the business. Besides...as you and I both know they are very open about it anyway. They have never stated that DF was the only thing they have ever done.
As for your advertising comment...you do realize that there are a plethora of free mediums they can use to showcase game media in an effort to actually validate player concerns right? They don't have to pay a dime really, not if they didn't want to. The lack of media about their game has nothing to do with cutting ad costs. Most good gaming conventions also do not carry a fee for the devs....because these conventions NEED game creators to be there in order to draw ticket sales. If you don't think they are ducking out when it comes to showing off the game...I don't know what I can say. Being a small team has nothing to do with it....it would take one coffee jockey 3 minutes with fraps on a house server to get a solid gameplay video. Anything to show all of the game elements working together and functioning.
As for the "fear" comment...I stand by what I said. some 15 million players are playing the level/class thing and 3-4 million of them have been doing so since the dawn of MMO's. The rest are WoW pop-culture junkies...so I'm not going to include them. Its still not certain they will stick to the genre once it stops being pop-culture again lol. The players whom liked Ultima Online are still playing it...or moved on to other games that were similar. Very few moved on to Class/level grinds. Players in MMO's are generally closed minded and stick to what they know. FFA PVP keeps the vast majority away because noob griefing is WAYY to common. No major company trying to play up to the "easy cheesy and ganker free" crowd is afraid of losing them to DF. Ultima might be scared. SWG might be scared. EVE might be scared. AoC is scared of WAR and Blizzards new project. Even if DF is a major success its still not gonna be stealing players from the WoW model of gaming. You'll find most of your playerbase to be old SWG, Ultima, and EVE fans that liked fantasy a lot more than space. Not old EQ fans that decided classes and levels sucked.
"Not old EQ fans that decided Classes and levels sucked" - Well I am from this crowd and I know a few others that are in the same boat.
Darkfall is going to pull gamers from all other games even WoW. It just how it works. New game comes out people rush to try it, either they like it and stay or dont and go back to there old MMO.
Saying anything else is just stupied, that is how the MMO world works. Most of the gamers rush out to try the New MMO of the Month.
I decided to break the "quote" thing we were doing to shorten the text on screen for a moment. I realized that if I did it this time we'd have a page-long post with only minimal text new each time, lol.
To begin, there are other titles in the works besides Earthrise which are gunning for the same concept of a Sandbox game. I may go dig up some of the names for you later to give you something to look at...though you may have already seen some of them since its obvious we like the same types of games. Its early, and I just woke up and am about to get ready for work....so the only one I can think of amidst the head grog is Well. The are others...most are talked about daily in the SWG vet forum actually. Which...is why I think you may have at least been exposed to a few of them already.
Since you do know that Adventurine is involved in other projects...I guess my point was made about that. People keep trying to argue with me that Adventurine have only EVER been doing darkfall....and thats just not true. In fact....almost NO MMO team started with an MMO. Its just to hard to get into this market...and the costs (even for small teams with no advertising) are high. If you aren't taking a publisher...you NEED to have other projects to jumpstart the business. Besides...as you and I both know they are very open about it anyway. They have never stated that DF was the only thing they have ever done.
As for your advertising comment...you do realize that there are a plethora of free mediums they can use to showcase game media in an effort to actually validate player concerns right? They don't have to pay a dime really, not if they didn't want to. The lack of media about their game has nothing to do with cutting ad costs. Most good gaming conventions also do not carry a fee for the devs....because these conventions NEED game creators to be there in order to draw ticket sales. If you don't think they are ducking out when it comes to showing off the game...I don't know what I can say. Being a small team has nothing to do with it....it would take one coffee jockey 3 minutes with fraps on a house server to get a solid gameplay video. Anything to show all of the game elements working together and functioning.
As for the "fear" comment...I stand by what I said. some 15 million players are playing the level/class thing and 3-4 million of them have been doing so since the dawn of MMO's. The rest are WoW pop-culture junkies...so I'm not going to include them. Its still not certain they will stick to the genre once it stops being pop-culture again lol. The players whom liked Ultima Online are still playing it...or moved on to other games that were similar. Very few moved on to Class/level grinds. Players in MMO's are generally closed minded and stick to what they know. FFA PVP keeps the vast majority away because noob griefing is WAYY to common. No major company trying to play up to the "easy cheesy and ganker free" crowd is afraid of losing them to DF. Ultima might be scared. SWG might be scared. EVE might be scared. AoC is scared of WAR and Blizzards new project. Even if DF is a major success its still not gonna be stealing players from the WoW model of gaming. You'll find most of your playerbase to be old SWG, Ultima, and EVE fans that liked fantasy a lot more than space. Not old EQ fans that decided classes and levels sucked.
Good post and i thank you for the debate.
Your probably right about the PR issue in some form. What there reason is for not being more open minded is a bit of a puzzle to be honest. Hopefully we get some clarifications about the state of the game in near future. Seems were about to get a new video about Conquest in near future.=) Lets hope that one show us some more of the features and why not some NPC:s too.=)
Seems there is alot of WoW players wanna join Darkfall btw. Was a newly made poll about where the followers of today is coming from.
View Poll Results: What game did you all come from?
Just imagine what will happen if Darkfall goes beta. A small dev team versus multi million mmos that all of their features tied together are not even half the features that Darkfall has, but they are not even half the features of Ultima Online (which unfortunately for them is not a vaporware). I want Darkfall to succeed and i would love to see the faces of the cloners that take 4-5 years in development (Betas and Gammas not included) and then come here to show off their unfinished games that feature visual chat rooms, instances and loading screens in the year 2008 of quad core CPUs and several gigabytes of RAM.
And then, pot plant designers, boob algorithm specialists and many other professions made up to consume and justify the standard 20 million dollar mmo budget, will give their place to real developers worthy of their salaries-time and that's just the problem they have against any kind of Darkfall.
I LOVE YOUR REPLY!!!
It showcases exactly what some of us have been mentioning. This - for the lack of a better word - Fanboy-environment that some created here on the forums and the Darkfall community forums. Its the adorable "we're a small, but elite group of devs and their fanboys against the mean and mighty corporate sell-outs, we'll show 'em!!" attitude. I really wonder what the Darkfall devs have given you so far to make sure they have your undying love and loyality. Can anyone answer me this please?
Vagelisp is looking at the bigger picture, something a lot of people don't seem to have a grasp on. People who have played games extensivly over the last 25yrs are able to do so more effectivley. Darkfall has that special ingredient. Whereas WAR AoC Wow add nothing Meridian69/UO/AC add a lot more seamless integrated fetures and gameplay.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I am not a Darkfall fan but I still wanted to say that what that dev said was very unprofessional. Regardless of what people think about Darkfall that kind of trash talking should be left to consumers.
Both sides should wait until their games are released and let the players make the final choice.
Athelan rox, he is my idol and everything he said was true. Darkfall...lolz
And I though Hee-man and Rambo was cool when I was a kid.
______________________________ The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess. And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic' and send them to the Special Olympus.
I haven't really followed the development of Darkfall and I know very little about the game. I think that what AoC Dev's were doing by trash-talking was to build an image for themselves, their company, and their game/fans. They wanted to illustrate a 'badass' side, get their followers stoked up about their game, get some adrenaline flowing, etc.,...
I don't think what they said was 'professional'. I don't think it was 'nice'. I don't think it was really meant to be either.
AoC will make a mark on the MMORPG landscape.
While it's true that Darkfall Dev's are promising the world and showing little in return (as of yet), AoC Dev's should be a bit more reserved. Their day in judgement is coming all too soon... May launch? If all of the uber next-gen 'real-time' combat ends up being a complicated and horrific mess... the AoC Dev's will be strung up faster than any SOE Dev every dreamed (nightmared) about.
I'm not necessarily defending Darkfall, but AoC has promised an awful lot of 'next-gen' and 'new' features for their game. Those dev's really have to deliver, or else that 'ruthless mob' that they have generated as a fan base will turn on them. (they will probably harm animals in the process, too)
You know...the DF crew could end this sort of speculation if they wanted to. They are the one choosing to develop the game the way that they are, so the DF fans and supporters shouldn't be upset when the rest of the gaming community reacts with skepticism. As a person looking on from the sidelines, I'm amazed that they don't expect it. Still, everytime someone says something negative about DF, the supporters act shocked. /boggle...
You pose a good point. When there are negative comments alot of the supporters do defend darkfall. A big question is, why are there negative comments on darkfall?
The AoC dev is ridiculous, he knows just as much as anyone else of what darkfall will offer and what it won't. For all we know it takes 7 years to put all the features in a game that they say they will.
I still think its funny that people-- naysayers and supporters -- both take extreme stands on something so ridiculous like they know for a fact this game is going to be a certain way. Talking about games in development and even games in beta turns out to be one thing. Supposition.
Even when you play a beta a game on launch can be completely different. Even if you watch videos, playing the game can be completely different. Any one who takes an extreme stand on a game -- AoC -- DF -- WAR, any extreme stand on the game before the actual release is foolish.
Hey, I'm not saying don't talk about the game, but lets keep it rational. As for the AoC dev, that guy is just a jerk. he's basically saying. "Well sure we *could* offer those features, but we didn't and anyone with that many features is an idiot that's wasting there time, because it can't be done!"
What a load. That dev seriously sounds jealous. Because people are asking for what his game isn't going to deliver, he's going to bash the game the poster references. It's even more childish then most of the posts on this forum.
Lets all throw professionalism out the window. Who needs dignity when you have an extra 20 subscribers right?
I really don't see where any of them were "bashing" the game.
In the first Dev post, I saw an opinion and him admitting that the video was not directly from the DF crew. He acknowledged that he wasn't really sure that the DF crew were promising more than they could deliver.
The second Dev post was a question.
The third Dev post was also opinion, and a pretty solid one at that. He was simply saying to beware of anyone who promises you the moon, because you'll most likely not get what was promised. I don't see that as bad advice.
So where is the unprofessional DF bashing? I'm just not seeing it. If anything, I'm seeing Devs actually interacting with their community. It's something that the DF Devs should consider doing on a regular basis. Just my 2 cents...
Originally posted by maskedweasel Hey, I'm not saying don't talk about the game, but lets keep it rational. As for the AoC dev, that guy is just a jerk. he's basically saying. "Well sure we *could* offer those features, but we didn't and anyone with that many features is an idiot that's wasting there time, because it can't be done!"
But it can't be done, masedweasel. At least not with today's technology. Things will change 7 years down the road, and what they promise in 2008 might be doable in 2010 or 2015.
That dev made those comments in March 2007, and DF is no closer to closed beta today than it was when he made those comments.
Who's the jerk? The guy who's developing a legit AAA game that WILL release in 2008, or the vapourware dev who keeps making promises about some Holy Grail game that probably never sees the light of day?
SWG "could have" put in all the features they were promising 6 months prior to release, but it would have delayed them 12-24 months. WoW was in the same boat. They promised a lot, but key features had to be axed prior to release (and were added later) --- or they would not have met their near-simultaneous release with EQ2.
Devs who have actually release games know about the realities of "promises" vs "going gold."
In the past year or two, Perpetual (Gods and Heroes - cancelled) and Flying Lab Software (Pirates of the Burning Sea - delayed 3 years) learned that lesson, too. So did Sigil (Vanguard), too late of course.
The first quote was an obvious parody of the Devs idea of how Darkfall is marketing their game.
The second quote is a cheap shot at the DF investors. By saying "some rich shieks son from the middle east" he's making light of their devolopment time and investor situation. It completely downplays DF's spending and initiative to produce results.
The last quote the Dev exaggerates what the DF devs are trying to do. They try and make it sound like they aren't delivering, or could not/will not deliver when the AoC dev is obviously out of turn. He has no idea what the DF devs are capable of, and shouldn't hint at any future failures when at this point there isn't anything to base them off of.
Right now theres not much to base anything off of, yet he still feels the need to knock another game subtly.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Hey, I'm not saying don't talk about the game, but lets keep it rational. As for the AoC dev, that guy is just a jerk. he's basically saying. "Well sure we *could* offer those features, but we didn't and anyone with that many features is an idiot that's wasting there time, because it can't be done!"
But it can't be done, masedweasel. At least not with today's technology. Things will change 7 years down the road, and what they promise in 2008 might be doable in 2010 or 2015.
That dev made those comments in March 2007, and DF is no closer to closed beta today than it was when he made those comments.
Who's the jerk? The guy who's developing a legit AAA game that WILL release in 2008, or the vapourware dev who keeps making promises about some Holy Grail game that probably never sees the light of day?
SWG "could have" put in all the features they were promising 6 months prior to release, but it would have delayed them 12-24 months. WoW was in the same boat. They promised a lot, but key features had to be axed prior to release (and were added later) --- or they would not have met their near-simultaneous release with EQ2.
Devs who have actually release games know about the realities of "promises" vs "going gold."
In the past year or two, Perpetual (Gods and Heroes - cancelled) and Flying Lab Software (Pirates of the Burning Sea - delayed 3 years) learned that lesson, too. So did Sigil (Vanguard), too late of course.
Some day Darkfall devs will learn it too.
Again, like I say in the prior post, lets be completely rational. DF didn't release poorly. It didn't skimp on any of the features that it promised. All it has done was delay they game (which is what you said the other devs should have done to ensure they have all the features they promised). I'm not saying they will have all the features
I'm just saying, I don't know if they will. Its like saying, You won't eat steak tonight. I don't know what you'll eat. All I know is, I'm not going to take a stand on something I'm not sure about. I'm also not going to take shots at a game that I ------ For 1) would be competing with and 2) Have no more information on them then anyone else does.
Maybe Darkfall will be cancelled, maybe it will launch with minimal features. Maybe it will launch with every feature and then some. Maybe all the horses in Darkfall will be pink. I don't know.
I also don't know how well AoC will do in the long run. Maybe it will launch and the servers will crash. Who knows really?! It's all a big guessing game until it actually happens.
How can you say the DF devs have delayed anything? What the hell have they delayed? Release? Open Beta? General/Closed Beta? Alpha? Development? What? What exactly have the DF devs delayed? I think that's the real question.
Well funcom has alot more staff and resources so obvousyl u would expect their game to come out faster even if it did start later. Come on people, lets use some common sense.
Comments
Allim going to say is alot of people are going to be getting alot of i told you so here farily soon
I agree. Just try not to get too angry when I say "Told you so!".
The game are still in alpha, so don't expect to much.
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The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
Excellent post. Very well stated.
I decided to break the "quote" thing we were doing to shorten the text on screen for a moment. I realized that if I did it this time we'd have a page-long post with only minimal text new each time, lol.
To begin, there are other titles in the works besides Earthrise which are gunning for the same concept of a Sandbox game. I may go dig up some of the names for you later to give you something to look at...though you may have already seen some of them since its obvious we like the same types of games. Its early, and I just woke up and am about to get ready for work....so the only one I can think of amidst the head grog is Well. The are others...most are talked about daily in the SWG vet forum actually. Which...is why I think you may have at least been exposed to a few of them already.
Since you do know that Adventurine is involved in other projects...I guess my point was made about that. People keep trying to argue with me that Adventurine have only EVER been doing darkfall....and thats just not true. In fact....almost NO MMO team started with an MMO. Its just to hard to get into this market...and the costs (even for small teams with no advertising) are high. If you aren't taking a publisher...you NEED to have other projects to jumpstart the business. Besides...as you and I both know they are very open about it anyway. They have never stated that DF was the only thing they have ever done.
As for your advertising comment...you do realize that there are a plethora of free mediums they can use to showcase game media in an effort to actually validate player concerns right? They don't have to pay a dime really, not if they didn't want to. The lack of media about their game has nothing to do with cutting ad costs. Most good gaming conventions also do not carry a fee for the devs....because these conventions NEED game creators to be there in order to draw ticket sales. If you don't think they are ducking out when it comes to showing off the game...I don't know what I can say. Being a small team has nothing to do with it....it would take one coffee jockey 3 minutes with fraps on a house server to get a solid gameplay video. Anything to show all of the game elements working together and functioning.
As for the "fear" comment...I stand by what I said. some 15 million players are playing the level/class thing and 3-4 million of them have been doing so since the dawn of MMO's. The rest are WoW pop-culture junkies...so I'm not going to include them. Its still not certain they will stick to the genre once it stops being pop-culture again lol. The players whom liked Ultima Online are still playing it...or moved on to other games that were similar. Very few moved on to Class/level grinds. Players in MMO's are generally closed minded and stick to what they know. FFA PVP keeps the vast majority away because noob griefing is WAYY to common. No major company trying to play up to the "easy cheesy and ganker free" crowd is afraid of losing them to DF.
Ultima might be scared. SWG might be scared. EVE might be scared. AoC is scared of WAR and Blizzards new project. Even if DF is a major success its still not gonna be stealing players from the WoW model of gaming. You'll find most of your playerbase to be old SWG, Ultima, and EVE fans that liked fantasy a lot more than space. Not old EQ fans that decided classes and levels sucked.
On the Darkfall website a new Press Release just appeared! They are hiring 20 more developers and are in talks with a Publisher. As for the reason for this unexpected move they stated: downtoearth wouldn't play Darkfall if we don't have a Beta this year.
LOL!
Reading any post he makes is hard on the eyes. He has zero grammer skills, can't spell, runs sentences on & on and doesn't capitalize any words. If he's older than 12, I feel sorry for him. LOL!
Anyway, I've seen dozens of his posts and he's ALWAYS "garrenteeing" (correctly spelled = guaranteeing) something. In most cases he's smug and gives you a wink, like he actually "knows" inside information.
I will "garrentee" (correctly spelled = guarantee) something. We will be re-reading this post this exact time next year, and he and others like him, will still be posting their so called wisdom for us all to cherish. Meanwhile, there will still be no Darkfall.
LOL!
Seven years in alpha. That's got to be some kind of record for dev ineptitude.
Allim going to say is alot of people are going to be getting alot of i told you so here farily soon
LOL!
Thank you for proving my point.
You can clearly see what I was stating above. The grammer, the smugness, the "you will see cause I know the real facts" attitude.
This apparently young child is classic.
Nothing blows up quicker than a DF thread it seems.
Of course they take cheap shots at each other, this is the era of World Wide Wrestling, where everyone has to talk smack, its part of the code now. Silly really, but I suppose its been going on forever now.
At this point, no one can talk until a game is actually released (and neither company has done so yet). AOC appears to be closer than DF of course (much closer actually) however its not released yet, so there's nothing to really discuss until they do.
I don't care, I'll play them both when available, and stick with the one thats more fun.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Darkfall is going to pull gamers from all other games even WoW. It just how it works. New game comes out people rush to try it, either they like it and stay or dont and go back to there old MMO.
Saying anything else is just stupied, that is how the MMO world works. Most of the gamers rush out to try the New MMO of the Month.
Sooner or Later
Your probably right about the PR issue in some form. What there reason is for not being more open minded is a bit of a puzzle to be honest. Hopefully we get some clarifications about the state of the game in near future. Seems were about to get a new video about Conquest in near future.=) Lets hope that one show us some more of the features and why not some NPC:s too.=)
Seems there is alot of WoW players wanna join Darkfall btw. Was a newly made poll about where the followers of today is coming from.
I LOVE YOUR REPLY!!!
It showcases exactly what some of us have been mentioning. This - for the lack of a better word - Fanboy-environment that some created here on the forums and the Darkfall community forums. Its the adorable "we're a small, but elite group of devs and their fanboys against the mean and mighty corporate sell-outs, we'll show 'em!!" attitude. I really wonder what the Darkfall devs have given you so far to make sure they have your undying love and loyality. Can anyone answer me this please?
Vagelisp is looking at the bigger picture, something a lot of people don't seem to have a grasp on. People who have played games extensivly over the last 25yrs are able to do so more effectivley. Darkfall has that special ingredient. Whereas WAR AoC Wow add nothing Meridian69/UO/AC add a lot more seamless integrated fetures and gameplay.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I am not a Darkfall fan but I still wanted to say that what that dev said was very unprofessional. Regardless of what people think about Darkfall that kind of trash talking should be left to consumers.
Both sides should wait until their games are released and let the players make the final choice.
Athelan rox, he is my idol and everything he said was true.
Darkfall...lolz
And I though Hee-man and Rambo was cool when I was a kid.
______________________________
The Sceptics, yes they're special but we've need them to.. I guess.
And if they're put more effort MMORPG.com can create a 'Team Sceptic'
and send them to the Special Olympus.
I haven't really followed the development of Darkfall and I know very little about the game. I think that what AoC Dev's were doing by trash-talking was to build an image for themselves, their company, and their game/fans. They wanted to illustrate a 'badass' side, get their followers stoked up about their game, get some adrenaline flowing, etc.,...
I don't think what they said was 'professional'. I don't think it was 'nice'. I don't think it was really meant to be either.
AoC will make a mark on the MMORPG landscape.
While it's true that Darkfall Dev's are promising the world and showing little in return (as of yet), AoC Dev's should be a bit more reserved. Their day in judgement is coming all too soon... May launch? If all of the uber next-gen 'real-time' combat ends up being a complicated and horrific mess... the AoC Dev's will be strung up faster than any SOE Dev every dreamed (nightmared) about.
I'm not necessarily defending Darkfall, but AoC has promised an awful lot of 'next-gen' and 'new' features for their game. Those dev's really have to deliver, or else that 'ruthless mob' that they have generated as a fan base will turn on them. (they will probably harm animals in the process, too)
You know...the DF crew could end this sort of speculation if they wanted to. They are the one choosing to develop the game the way that they are, so the DF fans and supporters shouldn't be upset when the rest of the gaming community reacts with skepticism. As a person looking on from the sidelines, I'm amazed that they don't expect it. Still, everytime someone says something negative about DF, the supporters act shocked. /boggle...
You pose a good point. When there are negative comments alot of the supporters do defend darkfall. A big question is, why are there negative comments on darkfall?
The AoC dev is ridiculous, he knows just as much as anyone else of what darkfall will offer and what it won't. For all we know it takes 7 years to put all the features in a game that they say they will.
I still think its funny that people-- naysayers and supporters -- both take extreme stands on something so ridiculous like they know for a fact this game is going to be a certain way. Talking about games in development and even games in beta turns out to be one thing. Supposition.
Even when you play a beta a game on launch can be completely different. Even if you watch videos, playing the game can be completely different. Any one who takes an extreme stand on a game -- AoC -- DF -- WAR, any extreme stand on the game before the actual release is foolish.
Hey, I'm not saying don't talk about the game, but lets keep it rational. As for the AoC dev, that guy is just a jerk. he's basically saying. "Well sure we *could* offer those features, but we didn't and anyone with that many features is an idiot that's wasting there time, because it can't be done!"
What a load. That dev seriously sounds jealous. Because people are asking for what his game isn't going to deliver, he's going to bash the game the poster references. It's even more childish then most of the posts on this forum.
Lets all throw professionalism out the window. Who needs dignity when you have an extra 20 subscribers right?
I really don't see where any of them were "bashing" the game.
In the first Dev post, I saw an opinion and him admitting that the video was not directly from the DF crew. He acknowledged that he wasn't really sure that the DF crew were promising more than they could deliver.
The second Dev post was a question.
The third Dev post was also opinion, and a pretty solid one at that. He was simply saying to beware of anyone who promises you the moon, because you'll most likely not get what was promised. I don't see that as bad advice.
So where is the unprofessional DF bashing? I'm just not seeing it. If anything, I'm seeing Devs actually interacting with their community. It's something that the DF Devs should consider doing on a regular basis. Just my 2 cents...
But it can't be done, masedweasel. At least not with today's technology. Things will change 7 years down the road, and what they promise in 2008 might be doable in 2010 or 2015.
That dev made those comments in March 2007, and DF is no closer to closed beta today than it was when he made those comments.
Who's the jerk? The guy who's developing a legit AAA game that WILL release in 2008, or the vapourware dev who keeps making promises about some Holy Grail game that probably never sees the light of day?
SWG "could have" put in all the features they were promising 6 months prior to release, but it would have delayed them 12-24 months. WoW was in the same boat. They promised a lot, but key features had to be axed prior to release (and were added later) --- or they would not have met their near-simultaneous release with EQ2.
Devs who have actually release games know about the realities of "promises" vs "going gold."
In the past year or two, Perpetual (Gods and Heroes - cancelled) and Flying Lab Software (Pirates of the Burning Sea - delayed 3 years) learned that lesson, too. So did Sigil (Vanguard), too late of course.
Some day Darkfall devs will learn it too.
The first quote was an obvious parody of the Devs idea of how Darkfall is marketing their game.
The second quote is a cheap shot at the DF investors. By saying "some rich shieks son from the middle east" he's making light of their devolopment time and investor situation. It completely downplays DF's spending and initiative to produce results.
The last quote the Dev exaggerates what the DF devs are trying to do. They try and make it sound like they aren't delivering, or could not/will not deliver when the AoC dev is obviously out of turn. He has no idea what the DF devs are capable of, and shouldn't hint at any future failures when at this point there isn't anything to base them off of.
Right now theres not much to base anything off of, yet he still feels the need to knock another game subtly.
But it can't be done, masedweasel. At least not with today's technology. Things will change 7 years down the road, and what they promise in 2008 might be doable in 2010 or 2015.
That dev made those comments in March 2007, and DF is no closer to closed beta today than it was when he made those comments.
Who's the jerk? The guy who's developing a legit AAA game that WILL release in 2008, or the vapourware dev who keeps making promises about some Holy Grail game that probably never sees the light of day?
SWG "could have" put in all the features they were promising 6 months prior to release, but it would have delayed them 12-24 months. WoW was in the same boat. They promised a lot, but key features had to be axed prior to release (and were added later) --- or they would not have met their near-simultaneous release with EQ2.
Devs who have actually release games know about the realities of "promises" vs "going gold."
In the past year or two, Perpetual (Gods and Heroes - cancelled) and Flying Lab Software (Pirates of the Burning Sea - delayed 3 years) learned that lesson, too. So did Sigil (Vanguard), too late of course.
Some day Darkfall devs will learn it too.
Again, like I say in the prior post, lets be completely rational. DF didn't release poorly. It didn't skimp on any of the features that it promised. All it has done was delay they game (which is what you said the other devs should have done to ensure they have all the features they promised). I'm not saying they will have all the features
I'm just saying, I don't know if they will. Its like saying, You won't eat steak tonight. I don't know what you'll eat. All I know is, I'm not going to take a stand on something I'm not sure about. I'm also not going to take shots at a game that I ------ For 1) would be competing with and 2) Have no more information on them then anyone else does.
Maybe Darkfall will be cancelled, maybe it will launch with minimal features. Maybe it will launch with every feature and then some. Maybe all the horses in Darkfall will be pink. I don't know.
I also don't know how well AoC will do in the long run. Maybe it will launch and the servers will crash. Who knows really?! It's all a big guessing game until it actually happens.
How can you say the DF devs have delayed anything? What the hell have they delayed? Release? Open Beta? General/Closed Beta? Alpha? Development? What? What exactly have the DF devs delayed? I think that's the real question.
The AoC Developer said nothing wrong.
Get over it.
Focus on the HORRENDOUS stuff that others do, infact, say.
Well funcom has alot more staff and resources so obvousyl u would expect their game to come out faster even if it did start later. Come on people, lets use some common sense.