After a few days of pessimistic posts in the AoC forums here, now suddenly a rush of optimism about the news claiming 1million subscribers to beta. Hype or are they really saying the truth?... And the negative posts have disappeared completely.
edit: I'd appreciate this thread not to be an arena for fanboys vs haters. It's just to follow AoC developement in a relaxed way, and to discuss its impact on WAR.
After a few days of pessimistic posts in the AoC forums here, now suddenly a rush of optimism about the news claiming 1million subscribers to beta. Hype or are they really saying the truth?... And the negative posts have disappeared completely.
The 1 million subscriber to beta claim is true they had a ticker up on their site counting for months and months. They negative posts have deffinetly not dissapeared completely, theres just a lot less of them because they really did fix most of the issues that people were complaining about in open beta, even though it was only 10 days. I think thats pretty impressive and speaks alot for FC on the whole. I was playing the beta on a 2 year old laptop, and was actually able to get playable fps on low settings.
and for anyone wondering
Laptop Specs:
7600go gpu
2gig ram
5400rpg HD
1.8ghz C2D Processor
Running Vista 32bit
Load times for zones took from 20-40seconds, for small instances took about 5-10 seconds.
FR- 20-35fps with occasional drop into the teens
Overall very playable IMO considering how smooth it was.
Oh, and if you want this to just be a discussion of AoC and it's impact, if any, on WAR, then you should have chosen a better title. Your title (and someone what your initial post,) made it sound like you were trying to troll AoC, or bash them and call it horrible, just because your a WAR fan and want to see the 'competition' fail.
Yes, that's true. But I can't change it now, wouldn't be fair to the people that answered already. I will think of something.
Have you been reading the AoC forum? I never thought things would look so bad for that game. I bet this has a lot to do about WAR release being posponed, they knew they were safe making this move.
It's looking very good for WAR, the more I look at it, the more I feel WAR will be a huge succes, I mean by the milions, maybe a few milions but that's a lot, maybe really hurting WOW if it is good enough. Sadly by good I mean appealing to the masses, this is the only fear I have.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.
Have you been reading the AoC forum? I never thought things would look so bad for that game. I bet this has a lot to do about WAR release being posponed, they knew they were safe making this move.
It's looking very good for WAR, the more I look at it, the more I feel WAR will be a huge succes, I mean by the milions, maybe a few milions but that's a lot, maybe really hurting WOW if it is good enough. Sadly by good I mean appealing to the masses, this is the only fear I have.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.
It does.
No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
Have you been reading the AoC forum? I never thought things would look so bad for that game. I bet this has a lot to do about WAR release being posponed, they knew they were safe making this move.
It's looking very good for WAR, the more I look at it, the more I feel WAR will be a huge succes, I mean by the milions, maybe a few milions but that's a lot, maybe really hurting WOW if it is good enough. Sadly by good I mean appealing to the masses, this is the only fear I have.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.
It does.
No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Have you been reading the AoC forum? I never thought things would look so bad for that game. I bet this has a lot to do about WAR release being posponed, they knew they were safe making this move.
It's looking very good for WAR, the more I look at it, the more I feel WAR will be a huge succes, I mean by the milions, maybe a few milions but that's a lot, maybe really hurting WOW if it is good enough. Sadly by good I mean appealing to the masses, this is the only fear I have.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.
It does.
No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Quality does influence sales.
Excuse me, bullshitting myself?? What the hell are you talking about? I am buying AOC and WAR based upon everything I have read or watched online that the devs have let us have. I am buying AOC based upon my experiance in AOC beta and my need for a game to play until WAR.
I have bought loads of other MMOs, and I didn't know if ANY of them were quality until I PLAYED them. They were all well made games, they all had millions spent on them, and they could all be called quality games from a production standpoint. That doesn't make the gameplay fun.
1000s will buy AOC and WAR because the hype tells them they are quality games and will be great. I happen to think WAR IS going to be fantastic, but that is my OPINION. You cannot call a product quality until it is released and the people who buy it SAY IT IS QUALITY (your word of mouth scenario). Any game can sell lots of copies and make money, but MMOs have a different standard to meet. They can't just sell thousands of copies, they also have to keep the subs coming in months and years later. In my opinion, a quality MMO MUST at least do that much.
age of conans high spec requirements are really what will limit its success . the game itself looks nice enough . i predict a lot of angry posts in the coming months because the average pc wont run it well . this does nt mean age of conan will be a faliure it just means that it proberbly will be success on the level of something like lord of the rings . its not the next massive mmo . the developers made the huge mistake of overestimating how powerful the average mid range pc is .
i hope it does well but i think its going to be a financial disaster for funcom .
Have you been reading the AoC forum? I never thought things would look so bad for that game. I bet this has a lot to do about WAR release being posponed, they knew they were safe making this move.
It's looking very good for WAR, the more I look at it, the more I feel WAR will be a huge succes, I mean by the milions, maybe a few milions but that's a lot, maybe really hurting WOW if it is good enough. Sadly by good I mean appealing to the masses, this is the only fear I have.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.
It does.
No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Quality does influence sales.
Excuse me, bullshitting myself?? What the hell are you talking about? I am buying AOC and WAR based upon everything I have read or watched online that the devs have let us have. I am buying AOC based upon my experiance in AOC beta and my need for a game to play until WAR.
I have bought loads of other MMOs, and I didn't know if ANY of them were quality until I PLAYED them. They were all well made games, they all had millions spent on them, and they could all be called quality games from a production standpoint. That doesn't make the gameplay fun.
1000s will buy AOC and WAR because the hype tells them they are quality games and will be great. I happen to think WAR IS going to be fantastic, but that is my OPINION. You cannot call a product quality until it is released and the people who buy it SAY IT IS QUALITY (your word of mouth scenario). Any game can sell lots of copies and make money, but MMOs have a different standard to meet. They can't just sell thousands of copies, they also have to keep the subs coming in months and years later. In my opinion, a quality MMO MUST at least do that much.
By bullshitting yourself, i mean the opinion of "WoW is only successful because of the hype, the game sucks! My favorite mmorpg _________ didn't sell as well just because of lack of hype!
Or "WAR sold more copies then AoC just because it had more hype! AoC is the better game" That's going to happen when war comes out.
Quality matters, saying otherwise is foolish. What sells games based on hype rather then quality? Previous successes, such as Halo 3 riding halo 1 and 2's success. Because it's already proven itself.
But for mmorpgs, this isn't necessarily the case, WoW succeeded, because it's the best mmorpg ever made. Now deny it all you want, or get bored on it. Or even like others more. It frankly doesn't matter. It is what it is. I've quit wow about 12 times over the years because i get bored out of my skull. But i come back. Why? because it's the best option.
The difference your failing to realize between pre release mmo and the quality arguement is that mmorpgs unlike other games have tons more media attention, players inside it, and toward the end beta leaks galore. Right now everyone knows AoC's only mediocre because of the impressions, and it's sales will show it.
When war goes into open beta, if it doesn't live up to todays standards, it will affect sales as well. The thing is, people just don't believe your "its beta, it'll be better at release" Because that's a lie.
Nah I wouldn't give any game the green light.. I wouldn't even give Blizz's new expansion the GL.. not because I dislike WoW, but its just any Dev can drop the ball on a new release.
WAR looks good on paper but hey, who can honestly say it will be a hit? Not the beta testers, thats for sure =P as most testers only play to demo the game, then chop it to bits when its not everything they hoped for.
I have ZERO faith in "beta leaks" and normally disregard them..
AoC? eh... it's "OK" in my book. (see my blog about it) Runs great on my specs and everything, its just not interesting enough for me. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that rave about it and play it until they are blue in the face. But then again, just like there are ungodly amounts of WoW haters, there too will be AoC haters.
I guess I'm just one guy on the fence about it. and also one that really dislikes when a game fails. cause thats a WHOLE lot of wasted time an effort for both the wishful player and the dev =P
Let me ask you all a question and both AOC and WAR fanbois must answer
Is any of the above MMORPG's out and in the store yet? (and Pre-orders dont count)
The answer is NO
So stoping trying to compare because we dont know yet which one is better and it will stay like that until BOTH are released
It makes me sad to see people here trying to backup something they know nothing about yet,its like trying to compare two incomplete pictures or one complete one with one half done picture,its stupid and gets you nowhere
Now you know why we have such strange religions because people believe everything they see
official poster surprises me. it seems he is so interested in all these news about upcoming mmos, how their betas suck etc.... and forgets how much WoW sucked (technical wise, everything else is a matter of taste) when it was in beta. so really... since i think that AoC will be postponed or something like that... we will see a quality game someday
as for WAR... show me atleast one video where gameplay would be interesting. actually show me ANY interesting video about WAR. saw like 15 vids on youtube - they all look like piece of shit.
I wasn't in WOW beta, and... yes I don't remember the problems, not saying they didn't exist, I was more interested in EQ2 at that time.
If AoC happens to be a quality game, so be it, I won't deny reality.
Reading that WAR looks like shit feels vaguly familiar to hearing 'but there were WMDs!'
I can't help but think that these people must of only played WoW or something because looks can be decieving. A game that LOOKS great is far different from a game that plays great. MMOs are particularly tricky to design gameplay for. Hope your eyes don't decieve you and you enjoy whatever you play, but to judge WAR on videos of beta footage is about as smart as continuing to believe there were ever WMDs.
IMO WaR graphics looks good and stylish, the problem is the animations. The way toons move just look bad, its far to mechanical and simplistic. Even an old game like DaoC had better animations. But I hope its just placeholder animations we see.
I think they might be. Here is a recent review (by a player, not the games industry) CLICKY
He was very enthusiastic about the game in that review. If you discount some of that enthusiasm as fanboism (I don't t, but some might <shrug>) it still leaves me feeling that the games is going to be excellent in gameplay, and pretty enough graphically to satisfy.
age of conans high spec requirements are really what will limit its success . the game itself looks nice enough . i predict a lot of angry posts in the coming months because the average pc wont run it well . this does nt mean age of conan will be a faliure it just means that it proberbly will be success on the level of something like lord of the rings . its not the next massive mmo . the developers made the huge mistake of overestimating how powerful the average mid range pc is . i hope it does well but i think its going to be a financial disaster for funcom .
No, not really. Pc gaming is largely a community of gamers who can,and do keep their Pc's pretty much with the times. Pc gaming has always been about pushing the envelope, with Pc gamers following suit with the hardware to run it. The average age of a Pc gamer is 35 years old. AOC hardware requirements is no obstacle for the majority of Pc gamers whom the game is catered towards.
I think the average gamer's PC is has significantly lower specs than what some people would like to believe. The situation is somewhat similar to when WoW and EQ2 released. EQ2 was the inheritor of the success of the first EverQuest, yet people didn't play it as the system requirements for the game were simply too steep. WoW on the other hand had cleverly gotten the most out of their simplistic but strong and visually pleasing look and animations, and made a game everyone was able to play. Of course that's not the sole reason for that game's success, but when you have a game that requires very powerful systems, you are significantly reducing the amount of people that can play it.
But part of AoC's appeal is assuredly the amazingly high graphics, which is also an attraction for those with really powerful PCs and are really drawn towards that kind of stuff.
Comments
After a few days of pessimistic posts in the AoC forums here, now suddenly a rush of optimism about the news claiming 1million subscribers to beta. Hype or are they really saying the truth?... And the negative posts have disappeared completely.
edit: I'd appreciate this thread not to be an arena for fanboys vs haters. It's just to follow AoC developement in a relaxed way, and to discuss its impact on WAR.
and for anyone wondering
Laptop Specs:
7600go gpu
2gig ram
5400rpg HD
1.8ghz C2D Processor
Running Vista 32bit
Load times for zones took from 20-40seconds, for small instances took about 5-10 seconds.
FR- 20-35fps with occasional drop into the teens
Overall very playable IMO considering how smooth it was.
what your seeing on AOC board is a prime example as why mythic won't have official forums.
Yes, that's true. But I can't change it now, wouldn't be fair to the people that answered already. I will think of something.
edit: done.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.It does.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.It does.
No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.It does.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Quality does influence sales.
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.It does.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Quality does influence sales.
Excuse me, bullshitting myself?? What the hell are you talking about? I am buying AOC and WAR based upon everything I have read or watched online that the devs have let us have. I am buying AOC based upon my experiance in AOC beta and my need for a game to play until WAR.
I have bought loads of other MMOs, and I didn't know if ANY of them were quality until I PLAYED them. They were all well made games, they all had millions spent on them, and they could all be called quality games from a production standpoint. That doesn't make the gameplay fun.
1000s will buy AOC and WAR because the hype tells them they are quality games and will be great. I happen to think WAR IS going to be fantastic, but that is my OPINION. You cannot call a product quality until it is released and the people who buy it SAY IT IS QUALITY (your word of mouth scenario). Any game can sell lots of copies and make money, but MMOs have a different standard to meet. They can't just sell thousands of copies, they also have to keep the subs coming in months and years later. In my opinion, a quality MMO MUST at least do that much.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
age of conans high spec requirements are really what will limit its success . the game itself looks nice enough . i predict a lot of angry posts in the coming months because the average pc wont run it well . this does nt mean age of conan will be a faliure it just means that it proberbly will be success on the level of something like lord of the rings . its not the next massive mmo . the developers made the huge mistake of overestimating how powerful the average mid range pc is .
i hope it does well but i think its going to be a financial disaster for funcom .
Never confuse numbers sold with quality
Never pretend that numbers sold has nothing to with quality.It does.
Stop bullshitting yourself to make your game selections feel better.No, it really doesn't. In MMOs the only indication of quality is the game's ability to maintain stable subscriber numbers. Retail figures don't tend to show if an MMO is good or bad, it just shows how good the hype and/or publicity was. Its the number of people still playing after 3 months that tells you how good it is.
MMORPGs sell more on word of mouth, and actual experiences with the game far more than following a name and publicity.
Explain swg? matrix online? Two big mass media named franchises. Yet their sells weren't indicative of it.
Quality does influence sales.
Excuse me, bullshitting myself?? What the hell are you talking about? I am buying AOC and WAR based upon everything I have read or watched online that the devs have let us have. I am buying AOC based upon my experiance in AOC beta and my need for a game to play until WAR.
I have bought loads of other MMOs, and I didn't know if ANY of them were quality until I PLAYED them. They were all well made games, they all had millions spent on them, and they could all be called quality games from a production standpoint. That doesn't make the gameplay fun.
1000s will buy AOC and WAR because the hype tells them they are quality games and will be great. I happen to think WAR IS going to be fantastic, but that is my OPINION. You cannot call a product quality until it is released and the people who buy it SAY IT IS QUALITY (your word of mouth scenario). Any game can sell lots of copies and make money, but MMOs have a different standard to meet. They can't just sell thousands of copies, they also have to keep the subs coming in months and years later. In my opinion, a quality MMO MUST at least do that much.
By bullshitting yourself, i mean the opinion of "WoW is only successful because of the hype, the game sucks! My favorite mmorpg _________ didn't sell as well just because of lack of hype!Or "WAR sold more copies then AoC just because it had more hype! AoC is the better game" That's going to happen when war comes out.
Quality matters, saying otherwise is foolish. What sells games based on hype rather then quality? Previous successes, such as Halo 3 riding halo 1 and 2's success. Because it's already proven itself.
But for mmorpgs, this isn't necessarily the case, WoW succeeded, because it's the best mmorpg ever made. Now deny it all you want, or get bored on it. Or even like others more. It frankly doesn't matter. It is what it is. I've quit wow about 12 times over the years because i get bored out of my skull. But i come back. Why? because it's the best option.
The difference your failing to realize between pre release mmo and the quality arguement is that mmorpgs unlike other games have tons more media attention, players inside it, and toward the end beta leaks galore. Right now everyone knows AoC's only mediocre because of the impressions, and it's sales will show it.
When war goes into open beta, if it doesn't live up to todays standards, it will affect sales as well. The thing is, people just don't believe your "its beta, it'll be better at release" Because that's a lie.
This isn't directed entirely at YOU btw.
Nah I wouldn't give any game the green light.. I wouldn't even give Blizz's new expansion the GL.. not because I dislike WoW, but its just any Dev can drop the ball on a new release.
WAR looks good on paper but hey, who can honestly say it will be a hit? Not the beta testers, thats for sure =P as most testers only play to demo the game, then chop it to bits when its not everything they hoped for.
I have ZERO faith in "beta leaks" and normally disregard them..
AoC? eh... it's "OK" in my book. (see my blog about it) Runs great on my specs and everything, its just not interesting enough for me. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that rave about it and play it until they are blue in the face. But then again, just like there are ungodly amounts of WoW haters, there too will be AoC haters.
I guess I'm just one guy on the fence about it. and also one that really dislikes when a game fails. cause thats a WHOLE lot of wasted time an effort for both the wishful player and the dev =P
---
Xen of Onslaught
Finally we agree on something. Quality does matter. Where we disagree is that I do not believe retail sales figures are an indication of it.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
Let me ask you all a question and both AOC and WAR fanbois must answer
Is any of the above MMORPG's out and in the store yet? (and Pre-orders dont count)
The answer is NO
So stoping trying to compare because we dont know yet which one is better and it will stay like that until BOTH are released
It makes me sad to see people here trying to backup something they know nothing about yet,its like trying to compare two incomplete pictures or one complete one with one half done picture,its stupid and gets you nowhere
Now you know why we have such strange religions because people believe everything they see
official poster surprises me.
it seems he is so interested in all these news about upcoming mmos, how their betas suck etc....
and forgets how much WoW sucked (technical wise, everything else is a matter of taste) when it was in beta.
so really... since i think that AoC will be postponed or something like that... we will see a quality game someday
as for WAR... show me atleast one video where gameplay would be interesting.
actually show me ANY interesting video about WAR.
saw like 15 vids on youtube - they all look like piece of shit.
If AoC happens to be a quality game, so be it, I won't deny reality.
I agree about the WAR videos.
Oh god. Is this thread still alive.
Reading that WAR looks like shit feels vaguly familiar to hearing 'but there were WMDs!'
I can't help but think that these people must of only played WoW or something because looks can be decieving. A game that LOOKS great is far different from a game that plays great. MMOs are particularly tricky to design gameplay for. Hope your eyes don't decieve you and you enjoy whatever you play, but to judge WAR on videos of beta footage is about as smart as continuing to believe there were ever WMDs.
IMO WaR graphics looks good and stylish, the problem is the animations.
The way toons move just look bad, its far to mechanical and simplistic. Even an old game like DaoC had better animations.
But I hope its just placeholder animations we see.
"You are the hero our legends have foretold will save our tribe, therefore please go kill 10 pigs."
I think they might be. Here is a recent review (by a player, not the games industry) CLICKY
He was very enthusiastic about the game in that review. If you discount some of that enthusiasm as fanboism (I don't t, but some might <shrug>) it still leaves me feeling that the games is going to be excellent in gameplay, and pretty enough graphically to satisfy.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
for me, war wins aoc... worth the wait
From what I've heard, It's a huge green light for AOC .. for now that is. Well see about that later.
No, not really. Pc gaming is largely a community of gamers who can,and do keep their Pc's pretty much with the times. Pc gaming has always been about pushing the envelope, with Pc gamers following suit with the hardware to run it. The average age of a Pc gamer is 35 years old. AOC hardware requirements is no obstacle for the majority of Pc gamers whom the game is catered towards.
I think the average gamer's PC is has significantly lower specs than what some people would like to believe. The situation is somewhat similar to when WoW and EQ2 released. EQ2 was the inheritor of the success of the first EverQuest, yet people didn't play it as the system requirements for the game were simply too steep. WoW on the other hand had cleverly gotten the most out of their simplistic but strong and visually pleasing look and animations, and made a game everyone was able to play. Of course that's not the sole reason for that game's success, but when you have a game that requires very powerful systems, you are significantly reducing the amount of people that can play it.
But part of AoC's appeal is assuredly the amazingly high graphics, which is also an attraction for those with really powerful PCs and are really drawn towards that kind of stuff.
Must have both.