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Warhammer or Failhammer
Avathos
Member UncommonPosts: 155
Like many of you guys I embrased this game. I wanted WAR to be the next WoW killer. When I got accepted into BETA I was like IN YOU FACE LOSERS! However this post is NOT ABOUT BETA because, lets face it there is NDA and I swear to follow it.
This post like many others is to beat the same dead horse about the cut of classes and the reduction of cities. IMO the main reason for decision is either: financial pressure or fear of WoLK.
Why not just push the game back another 6 months and deliver a product like promised from day one?
Why the rush of releasing what many consider a incomplete game. You have to remember that for the past year and half Mythic has released ton publicity regarding classes and their importance of having racial integrity. Races and their territories, which they have swear to defend till the last man, woman or neuter (greenskins) Most important, from day one we always got that promised that this game will be in par with the Warhammer Lore and IMO it is not.
Lets ake just little example of the cuts:
The Empire Warrior Priest / Bright Wizard / Witch Hunter (3/4) VS
Chaos : Chosen / Zealot / Marauder / Magus (4/4)
The math does not add up 3 is not equal 4. You cant argue and tell me is 20 vs 20 because in fact what was promised was 24 vs 24 and every race will have their 4 archtypes. Many will say, suck it up! Just choose a tank available from the other races in your faction. So now instead of choise now we will be forced to choose SM or IB tanking for humans? This is not according to the warhammer lore. Never in the warhammer lore THE EMPIRE let mutants lead their cause and less to defend them. Just because accept other races doesnt mean they have to incorporate them into their ranks. In addition, factions that just have 3/4 classes may be affected by: 1- people not playing them because they may think they are gimped 2- or people may not play them because the variety will be greatly reduced (25% if we go by the numbers)
In addition to the above now we have significant reduced city content. Again since when the orcs care about helping the other forces of destruction to defeat The Empire or The Dwarf . Holy Cow the greenskin cant even fight under the same flag. If we go by WARHAMMER LORE, the game basically doesnt not make much sense anymore other than just some archtypes and backgrounds.. It is just another MMO with a litle bit more RvR. Racial integrity was promised from day one and I trully dont think this decision will make it posible.
To finish, like many of you I pre-ordered the game, but I tell you want I am willing wait another 6 months and play a game the content I was promised since 2006. Rather than plaing a game based on what I consider a rush semi completed product based on a financial decision. Warhammer have a lot good things and in many areas I feel that the game is ground breaking, but everyones knows that YOU SHOULD NEVER PROMISE WHAT YOU CANT DELIVER. I am positive that this rush will hurt the game in the long run. There always be that shadow around telling everyone: Where in the heck are the other cities? Humans without a tank? Where is the Choppa? You get the point
Disclaimer:
The above statement is my entire opinion based on the recent public news, it does not have BETA classified information.
Comments
The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.
To be honest, the deletion of some careers do certainly suck, but I rather play the game w/o those careers and wait and anticipate the classes in a patch or an expansion later on.
The deletion of some cities is not that big of a deal. each faction should only have 1 major city anyways. Look at WoW, Orgrimmar is the place to go on the horde side, and undercity and thunder bluff are practically empty. Might as well work on the incomplete cities, then have a city that no one wants to go to from the get-go due to its flaws.
"This post like many others is to beat the same dead horse...."
Basically what you've said has been said alot so I'll just elaborate on your clever title...Failhammer or Warfail: Age of Failure or Warhamfailer...I bet we'll see alot of these lame variations when we get sooner to release.
Mythic knew it was a hard decision but they also knew how long it'd take to get what they wanted with the cities/classes...and they simply thought the delay would be too long and they wanted a solid launch, so they decided to put the incomplete things on hold and work on adding them in later. Tons of devs promise things then don't deliver; Mythic has the balls to do it 3 months before release so you can cancel your pre-order if you don't like it.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Oh hey look,an original post.
daewonie,
First thanks for not flaming and just providing a hater answer. I simpathize with your opinion of wanting to play the game as soon psible and wait or later for finished classes. My post was more intended to promise of sticking to the warhammer lore.
I also see your point regarding the cities, however, if I may let me turn he coin. By having all the cities, it gives the players the flexibility to attack different areas other then being force to attack the same darn place all the time. In WoW RvR is 2ndary but in WAR RvR and City sieges was the main focus of the game. Thats in addition, to my original point of the warhammer lore issue
Thanks for the reply
It is indeed a dead horse, and WoW got thrown into the mix, DOUBLE WHAMMY!
MMORPGs are never truly finished. That is the beauty with the games. However, everyone always gripes that they are never complete and therefore a piece of junk.... /slap
Bigger battles with more focus = better gameplay. We'll get all 6 in good time. This delay gives people new to RvR (such as myself) time to learn how it works and to perfect it. This is also a great draw. People will be waiting for the next 2 cities and stay in WAR instead of trying out WotLK. In the end Mythic keeps their money, puts forth amazing cities, and keeps their promise of great gameplay.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Great, we can all win from this situation.
You purchase the game approx 6 months after launch.. (or whenever this oh-so-important content gets added) whilst the rest of us play the game at launch.
Win-Win-Win
Win - I and others get to play what will probably be a great game at launch
Win - Mythic get their revenue earlier
Win - you get to wait as you wished.
Failhammer...how so very clever, we didnt hear that one before!
As for the matter at hands...
Hey look everybody look a dead horse, let beat it to death!....again.
"There no I in team but there a WE in weapon." -Thoragrin Oxenhide
So it fits the games back-story perfectly. The Empire has had to call on the Elves and Dwarves for help.
On the destruction side, the Dark elves manipulated the whole orc army so that the empire would have to call on the elves. So again it fits.
From the lore aspect I must ask. I am of the opinion if GW is ok with what mythic is doing who is anyone else to question it? Why then do people think because its not what they see the lore as its not ok? I am not tryin to flame you by any means. This question has puzzled me and you, Avathos seem more reasonable than most others so I ask you the question.
From the lore aspect I must ask. I am of the opinion if GW is ok with what mythic is doing who is anyone else to question it? Why then do people think because its not what they see the lore as its not ok? I am not tryin to flame you by any means. This question has puzzled me and you, Avathos seem more reasonable than most others so I ask you the question.
If they said they're cutting the cities and classes FOREVER then GW would probably be mad. But if they're saying they want to make each city as magnificent and wonderful as GW imagined them to be, and make each of the four classes more fun and interesting, I'd imagine that'd make a better impression if Mythic said they needed to cut four cities/classes from the launch.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
From the lore aspect I must ask. I am of the opinion if GW is ok with what mythic is doing who is anyone else to question it? Why then do people think because its not what they see the lore as its not ok? I am not tryin to flame you by any means. This question has puzzled me and you, Avathos seem more reasonable than most others so I ask you the question.
If they said they're cutting the cities and classes FOREVER then GW would probably be mad. But if they're saying they want to make each city as magnificent and wonderful as GW imagined them to be, and make each of the four classes more fun and interesting, I'd imagine that'd make a better impression if Mythic said they needed to cut four cities/classes from the launch.
Either way, I dont understand the "mythic is messing with the lore" stuff. Not just from the OP but from everyone useing that argument. I think we all admit GW would pull the plug (as they have before) if they didnt like the way things are going or if Mythic was completely trashing the lore. So if GW thinks they arent dicking with the lore to the point its not Warhammer anymore, why do others think thats the case?
war is just gna be a wow clone anyway : /
Same type of topic .....same crap conversation.......
At least EA/Mythic is being honest about what theier releasing. The other stuff will come out in patches.....
WHY AM I REPEATING MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
From the lore aspect I must ask. I am of the opinion if GW is ok with what mythic is doing who is anyone else to question it? Why then do people think because its not what they see the lore as its not ok? I am not tryin to flame you by any means. This question has puzzled me and you, Avathos seem more reasonable than most others so I ask you the question.
If they said they're cutting the cities and classes FOREVER then GW would probably be mad. But if they're saying they want to make each city as magnificent and wonderful as GW imagined them to be, and make each of the four classes more fun and interesting, I'd imagine that'd make a better impression if Mythic said they needed to cut four cities/classes from the launch.
Regarding the comment about sticking to the Warhammer Lore. I don't care. Nope, call me a heretic, but I really don't care about the lore. (in fact, I once asked why we couldn't have dwarves with no beards and got burned at the stake by the lore-nazis)
I'm here to play a good game. Not play in a virtual world simulation, not to role-play, and I am perfectly happy with a game that "mostly" follows the lore, as long as lore never impacts decisions that would improve gameplay.
Sure, there are a lot of fans of Warhammer and its lore looking forward to playing this game. There are far more people out there like me who don't care, and Mythic knows our sub fees spend just as well as the fans. So they try to appeal to both sides, without getting too hung up on one thing or another.
The game doesn't ever need the 4 classes that were dropped, at least from a lore perspective. IMO of course) Now, if they offered cool functionality and gameplay style that is missing, thats a true tragedy and hopefully will be rectified in the future.
I've decided the recent announcement doesn't mean the end of WAR as we know it....unless of course the bleeding continues going forward. (still wondering how much crafting we'll really see at launch)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It sounds like the same thing Funcom did to get AoC out "on time;" and ever since, there has been nearly nothing but bitching about releasing an incomplete product on these forums.
aren't you informed!
Whose a cute troll! WHOSE a cute troll!
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
There is no such thing as RvR in WoW...period...ever...there is no POINT to fighting the otherside other than personal gain for gear. It doesn't gain your Faction (thats right FACTION since REALM is not FACTION ) anything for killing other players (you should know this your in beta with us right?) There is no point to raiding the other city other than personal satisifcation. There is no Realm Pride, there is no Workig together as a 'realm' its merely PvE with some pvp elements for gear thats it. You can't even take over someone else's city or territory which is the main purpose of RvR.
Am I the only one that noticed this?! Infact I'll basically call WoW a Guild Wars(i dont mean guild wars as in the mmo thats already out) game based on PvE because no one really helps anyone unless your in a guild, that sort of attitude doesn't fly in a RvR game.
While I agree it sucks we're missing 2 tanks and 2 melee dps characters it is NOT however lore breaking. There's no where in lore that says every army has to have knights of the blazing sun or an orc choppa to be within lore. It merely says they're part of the pool of regiments you can use. By not allowing players access to play one of the missing classes in an MMO it does not eradicate them from the lore. THey still exist, you still see them you just can't choose to play one just like you can't choose to play a Dwarven Slayer, but you do see one in the game.
If You think of the game as 1vs1 in battles then yes I suppose you feel you need a tank in every group to win, its a group game if your afraid of their tank have your group concentrate on the tank first then wipe out everyone else. Since the Empire is allianced with 2 other races (gasps) if a person feels their group needs a tank class they can merely look for one elsewhere, that is the whole point to being allianced (gasp!).
In a game thats all about war and fighting as a group you have to work with what you have access too, thats the nature honestly of any war game (and i dont mean warhammer I mean war games in general). Instead of groups only being based on the 'ultimate' build people might actually have to use their brains and improvise how they fight on the field depending on their group make up. Personally I find that a thrilling challenge (though I will miss the Choppa).
As for the missing cities...we're still getting End Game I think thats all that matters honestly. If they said no cities or No sieging I could see all the crying. By having 2 cities to concentrate on it does give us time to figure out the whole Sieging process so when MORE cities opens up we'll be ready and it'll be a fresh item to attack instead of burning outselves out on all six within the first year.
btw I think calling daewonie's post a hater answer was completely rude he was completely polite in his post to you. A hater answer would be telling you off.
It's not though. Funcom cut out entire features AND didn't tell their playerbase until they bought the game. Mythic is delaying -some- content (we still have all the features though), but has told their community months in advance. They've even suggested that if people were truly not happy, they could make their own delay until all the content is in.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
lol fail-hammer thats good. but till the game is done and comes out we will not know. i hold high hopes for mark the gang to pull it off. but as i said only time will tell.