I am still looking for a game good enough for me to play least 6-12 months. Warhammer is in my list but I don't like the race and class in this game. It is problem because if you dont like the race or class you created, how can you like the game.
Hopefully, Warhammer will make the race or least the character look better.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Wow...still beating the same dead horse Hop? The only thing I'm remotely concerned about is the lack of 2 tanks. But when your at a disadvantage you improvise, adapt, and overcome. Those 6 mega keeps they added will also make endgame a little more interesting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Originally posted by aedn Hate to break it to you but warhammer is not really an evolution or even an advancement in MMO games. Its just another partially finished game that is being released so as not to compete with the monster on the block. From a business standpoint there its good practice. From a consumer standpoint its bad for us. AoC did the exact same thing, they went after the short term money, had a window that they could fit into and not have compition for a half baked game. The content removal quite simply is EA's decision to not compete with the wow expansion, and try to suck up some sales. They really need another 4-6 months in development time, as the game needs alot of work at this point. Sadly it does not appear that WAR is going to get that badly needed time and monatary investment, which will create huge issues for the game 4-5 months after release. The pattern has been repeated for most MMO's since WoW, and honestly most mmos are following the access to everyone design, which requires alot of content to prolong the games life for many. There has yet to be one MMO release that really did what i would consider good, and probalby LOTRO was the best of the bunch,and look at the issues it has. Whats really amusing is we gamers fall for it everytime, we all rush to defend these types of actions, then after the game releases, and we spend our hard earned money, everyone starts complaining about everythihng that isnt complete. Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
I have one question for you did you listen to anything that Mark Jacob said in all his interviews after Mythic made the announcement about all the changes. Really from everything you just said you didn't read one thing he wrote. You really need to do some research or stop trolling on Warhammer topics. From his own words if Mythic feel the game is not polished to perfect they would push it back again. Mythic is shooting for a fun and great game not for some cheap quick cash get your info straight before you say something. Also are you even in the beta if not shut the hell up and wait til the game come out your wasting knowledge. Last thing please don't play the game I hate to see people like you play games criticize a game even before it is launched retarded people. game comes out your wasting knowledge. Last thing please don't play the game I hate to see people like you play games criticize a game before its even launched.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch Now Playing : Black Desert Online "America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
Originally posted by Avathos Like many of you guys I embrased this game. I wanted WAR to be the next WoW killer. When I got accepted into BETA I was like IN YOU FACE LOSERS! However this post is NOT ABOUT BETA because, lets face it there is NDA and I swear to follow it. This post like many others is to beat the same dead horse about the cut of classes and the reduction of cities. IMO the main reason for decision is either: financial pressure or fear of WoLK. Why not just push the game back another 6 months and deliver a product like promised from day one? Why the rush of releasing what many consider a incomplete game. You have to remember that for the past year and half Mythic has released ton publicity regarding classes and their importance of having racial integrity. Races and their territories, which they have swear to defend till the last man, woman or neuter (greenskins) Most important, from day one we always got that promised that this game will be in par with the Warhammer Lore and IMO it is not. Lets ake just little example of the cuts: The Empire Warrior Priest / Bright Wizard / Witch Hunter (3/4) VS Chaos : Chosen / Zealot / Marauder / Magus (4/4) The math does not add up 3 is not equal 4. You cant argue and tell me is 20 vs 20 because in fact what was promised was 24 vs 24 and every race will have their 4 archtypes. Many will say, suck it up! Just choose a tank available from the other races in your faction. So now instead of choise now we will be forced to choose SM or IB tanking for humans? This is not according to the warhammer lore. Never in the warhammer lore THE EMPIRE let mutants lead their cause and less to defend them. Just because accept other races doesnt mean they have to incorporate them into their ranks. In addition, factions that just have 3/4 classes may be affected by: 1- people not playing them because they may think they are gimped 2- or people may not play them because the variety will be greatly reduced (25% if we go by the numbers) In addition to the above now we have significant reduced city content. Again since when the orcs care about helping the other forces of destruction to defeat The Empire or The Dwarf . Holy Cow the greenskin cant even fight under the same flag. If we go by WARHAMMER LORE, the game basically doesnt not make much sense anymore other than just some archtypes and backgrounds.. It is just another MMO with a litle bit more RvR. Racial integrity was promised from day one and I trully dont think this decision will make it posible. To finish, like many of you I pre-ordered the game, but I tell you want I am willing wait another 6 months and play a game the content I was promised since 2006. Rather than plaing a game based on what I consider a rush semi completed product based on a financial decision. Warhammer have a lot good things and in many areas I feel that the game is ground breaking, but everyones knows that YOU SHOULD NEVER PROMISE WHAT YOU CANT DELIVER. I am positive that this rush will hurt the game in the long run. There always be that shadow around telling everyone: Where in the heck are the other cities? Humans without a tank? Where is the Choppa? You get the point
Disclaimer: The above statement is my entire opinion based on the recent public news, it does not have BETA classified information.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
They've already stated that they are putting polish on the exsisting content...I don't know what you are talking about.
There were 2 people that suggested their should be a delay. I think I will wait until the NDA, because I sure as hell am not basing my opinion on two people who came here probably to whine. You seem very sure that the majority of the Beta community will be asking for a delay. Basing this on 2 or 3 people is not the smartest move.
Murky? Hardly. And how has the entire game been 'turned on it's head'? We still have endgame and we still have 20 unique careers. That's more than a good chunk or recent games can say.
The fact is there is no need for a delay. All of the features are in game except the Auction House. We even have mega fortresses to act as our stand-in cities until they are phased into the game. Now how many times are you going to continue to beat a horse that's been beat, thrown in a ditch, stabbed, eyes gouged out, placed in the center of a highway, run over, set on fire, burnt to a crisp, placed in it's grave, dug back up, and blown up with a rocket launcher?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Decisions have to be made. They have three choices:
A. Cut the content and put it in post launch
B. Delay the game
C. Keep the content in, even though it's not "great"
They chose A. Now, I don't know how "great" the classes were, but I do know the cities wouldn't have made it in probably in in less than 6 months. A 6 month delay would have caused a much larger out roar, or at least I think so. I know I would be a lot more aggravated at a 6 month delay rather than the content cut. I'd rather be playing the game while they are working on the content.
As Mythic said, I can almost guarantee 80% or more of the WAR players don't even know about the content cut. A lot of people don't even follow the development, believe it or not. People go "Oh hey, this looks like the next big MMO" and they go and preorder it. Mythic isn't really losing many people from the content cut, in my opinion.
Now a delay, everybody that preorder would know about it. In my opinion, a lot of folks would be like "Hey, this game isn't coming out for a long time still, I wonder if I can transfer my store credit to another game, and buy it closer to release." I have done that before, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I've read the threat. Anyone can say they're in beta. It's the internet, you must be gullible or desperate to believe everything someone says. I know what I've seen, in real life, about the game, and my opinion obviously differs from others about the beta because I think it's doing great.
You seem to think once NDA is lifted, it's going to be all negativity. Sure, there will be people saying it needs delayed, but there will also be people saying beta is going great. Wait until you experience the game yourself before judging it, not going off what someone who is supposedly in beta thinks.
And many others? From what I've seen about supposed beta players on multiple forums, is there is quite a few more people that are enjoying it rather than saying it needs delayed. The whole game hasn't been turned based on the content cuts, that's just foolish. It's changed things, yes, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
I think a 6 month delay would hurt than rather than not. How is 4 classes going to change the long term of the game? We could be playing the game them 6 months while they get the classes out, instead of sitting here waiting. 4 classes aren't going to change the end part of the game.
The cities, yes. But you also have to consider us being spread out with 6 cities. Personally, I'd rather have us all at city for launch to bring the community closer together at launch, and then spread us other as the months go on with the last 4 cities.
Wait until the NDA is lifted, because I know it's not going to be all doom and gloom, there's going to be a lot of "It's so awesome!" posts too, because the beta players I've seen and talked to seem pretty content. Some aren't, but a lot of them are.
See this is the split in mentality with the MMORPG community
You rather pay them to play a game assuming they put in the content in down the line while I rather wait for them to put in the content then pay to play the game.
After what we witnessed with Dark and Light, Vanguard, AoC, etc I am suprised people are still willing to jump in head first with blind faith.
Where did you come up with the 80% figure? If such a high number of people do not know about the content cuts then this reflects on the poor ability of Mythic and the fansites to relay this information (And the lack of an official message board). I doubt that number is accurate and you were just taking a wild guess.
Ironic that you say anyone could claim they are in the beta so why should I believe you when you say you have seen it? it is in the internet after all right? I choose to believe you and those that have posted in the thread. If I was to dismiss what some have said in this thread then I will choose to dismiss what you have said. Funny how that works?
Once the NDA lifted there will be enormous feedback about delaying the game. Since when does advocating the delay of a game in any way signify negativity?
Please provide evidence that a delay (other than your opinion) would hurt the game? I can provide evidence that the delays in the past have not hurt the game and anticipation for this game has grown since the last delay.
If the classes cut out were not important they wouldn't bother introducing them in the game at some point. They would devote their time and energies elsewhere.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it ) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Decisions have to be made. They have three choices:
A. Cut the content and put it in post launch
B. Delay the game
C. Keep the content in, even though it's not "great"
They chose A. Now, I don't know how "great" the classes were, but I do know the cities wouldn't have made it in probably in in less than 6 months. A 6 month delay would have caused a much larger out roar, or at least I think so. I know I would be a lot more aggravated at a 6 month delay rather than the content cut. I'd rather be playing the game while they are working on the content.
As Mythic said, I can almost guarantee 80% or more of the WAR players don't even know about the content cut. A lot of people don't even follow the development, believe it or not. People go "Oh hey, this looks like the next big MMO" and they go and preorder it. Mythic isn't really losing many people from the content cut, in my opinion.
Now a delay, everybody that preorder would know about it. In my opinion, a lot of folks would be like "Hey, this game isn't coming out for a long time still, I wonder if I can transfer my store credit to another game, and buy it closer to release." I have done that before, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I've read the threat. Anyone can say they're in beta. It's the internet, you must be gullible or desperate to believe everything someone says. I know what I've seen, in real life, about the game, and my opinion obviously differs from others about the beta because I think it's doing great.
You seem to think once NDA is lifted, it's going to be all negativity. Sure, there will be people saying it needs delayed, but there will also be people saying beta is going great. Wait until you experience the game yourself before judging it, not going off what someone who is supposedly in beta thinks.
And many others? From what I've seen about supposed beta players on multiple forums, is there is quite a few more people that are enjoying it rather than saying it needs delayed. The whole game hasn't been turned based on the content cuts, that's just foolish. It's changed things, yes, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
I think a 6 month delay would hurt than rather than not. How is 4 classes going to change the long term of the game? We could be playing the game them 6 months while they get the classes out, instead of sitting here waiting. 4 classes aren't going to change the end part of the game.
The cities, yes. But you also have to consider us being spread out with 6 cities. Personally, I'd rather have us all at city for launch to bring the community closer together at launch, and then spread us other as the months go on with the last 4 cities.
Wait until the NDA is lifted, because I know it's not going to be all doom and gloom, there's going to be a lot of "It's so awesome!" posts too, because the beta players I've seen and talked to seem pretty content. Some aren't, but a lot of them are.
See this is the split in mentality with the MMORPG community
You rather pay them to play a game assuming they put in the content in down the line while I rather wait for them to put in the content then pay to play the game.
After what we witnessed with Dark and Light, Vanguard, AoC, etc I am suprised people are still willing to jump in head first with blind faith.
Where did you come up with the 80% figure? If such a high number of people do not know about the content cuts then this reflects on the poor ability of Mythic and the fansites to relay this information (And the lack of an official message board). I doubt that number is accurate and you were just taking a wild guess.
Ironic that you say anyone could claim they are in the beta so why should I believe you when you say you have seen it? it is in the internet after all right? I choose to believe you and those that have posted in the thread. If I was to dismiss what some have said in this thread then I will choose to dismiss what you have said. Funny how that works?
Once the NDA lifted there will be enormous feedback about delaying the game. Since when does advocating the delay of a game in any way signify negativity?
Please provide evidence that a delay (other than your opinion) would hurt the game? I can provide evidence that the delays in the past have not hurt the game and anticipation for this game has grown since the last delay.
If the classes cut out were not important they wouldn't bother introducing them in the game at some point. They would devote their time and energies elsewhere.
Mythic has earned our trust through what they've accomplished with DAOC. They've always been open with the community. Stop throwing a company that has earned our trust in the past with all those others.
The 80% comes from the people that have never set foot in a forum. Do you think only the forums community will buy the game? no. I know a lot of people have heard about WAR through people talking about it in Trade channel on their servers in WoW. There is a lot of buzz going on about this game and a lot of people know about it through word of mouth. I'd say the forums community is even less than 20% of what they'll end up with.
There won't be a delay. Period. They've already stated that they have everything in game except the Auction House which they are working on and should have in soon.
I believe he stated in another thread that there would be a lot of people who would just cancel their Pre-order to try another game instead. I think another delay would significantly hurt the base of their community. I, personally, would not wait if they delayed it. I would head back to WoW and continue grinding my way to the level cap. They don't want this game to turn into another LotRO, which had a fantasticly smooth launch, but nothing really happened after that...it didn't steal all that many players from WoW. This game has the potential to take a good chunk of Bliizard's PvP community...and you're going to have to strike while the iron is hot. In six months it will be too cool.
They obviously see the importance of the classes, but they aren't game-breaking. With the lack of the 2 tanks people are just going to find knew ways to work with what they have. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Wenn nichts mehr geht Werd' ich ein engel sein - Für dich allein Und dir in jeder dunklen nacht erschein' Und dann fliegen wir weit weg von hier Wir werden uns nie mehr verlier'n
Firstly I think Mythic did the right thing with both the cities and the four classes. Since it was a design given in the first place to only have one city siegable at a time (for good RvR - pretty obvious once you start to think about it) and rotate cities, the next decision to start out with two but with expanded number of instances, more quests and larger conflicted RvR city zones was a good one.
With the classes I honestly cannot care less. There are now 20 classes in the game (10 melee and 10 ranged) and with less melee-DPS and melee-tanks they can flesh out the current tanks and melee DPS classes more. If anything a good move but I do not think it is very important for the game.
As to the comparisons with AoC and other games apart from WoW I must say that the level of analysis is staggering low and shallow. Let's start with Mythic - it is almost the only developer with a solid reputation apart from Blizzard in the MMO arena today so I think some faith is in order. The second point is that what every beta tester can say: There are so many zones, quests and things to do it is almost stupid (the key debate at the forums is whether you should be able to stay only in your race pairing all the way to rank 40 or not - and it is darn close at the moment that is possible with moderate RvR activity). And there is months of end-game content at launch that is being beta tested right now. I would say that is almost a first in the MMO history (that the first tier of end-game is openly tested). Combat mechanics are tweaked and looks good. So in my book the comparison with AoC does not make sense at all.
So what are my worries?
My primary worry is that WAR is designed for large scale RvR by a Company with alot of heart but limited resources. Large scale RvR means that time-to-kill is long and that individual combat is pretty far away from the FPS genre (as opposed to WoW which is much closer than WAR to FPS). Limited resources means that all that polish that can go into animations and sounds might not be there at launch.
Add those two data points together and you can get a limited EvE effect from the WoW player base 'This game is crap, my char moves funny and it took me 30sec to kill a Boar. Fock this.'
The textures that looks godly as high resolution onces (only seen in some released promo material) might counter this with Destruction's cool look.
As a player (currently only EvE and some WoW as a chat-room) I know I will play WAR based on the beta. It is good enough for me right now.
Edit:What will not be tested in the beta (AFAIK): High-resolution textures, the complete sound files, without debugger in the background (so server synch might be funny all the time). What looks weak in the beta at the moment: Crafting and itemization.
How do you know cutting out the cities wasn't just the right thing to do? I like it how people make assumptions on here then you say wait for the NDA to be lifted. But your open to make uneducated guesses on everything.
2.
Have you ever witnessed a game being "polished" in beta? Sounds to me that's exactly what they are doing. Did you know during WoW's last two months of "polish" they cut two dungeons and were still debating whether or not to even have a druid class. 10 classes total and they might have went with only 9 just two months before launch?!? The content cut was the last big event to happen then they are going to polish phase.
3.
No matter how great this game is. It won't take off for at least 6 months. During that 6 months more polishing happens, content that was left out is slowly put in and the "buzz" about how good or bad the game starts to circulate. Then you will see subs coming in from other games.
Yes, that is how MMO's are released. Content is always cut right before Open beta. It happened in EQ, EQ2, SWG, WoW and even WoW's TBC expansion. No MMO as taken off right at launch and no MMO was at "full" content either.
What matters in the first 6-12 months is if the game is
a: Playable
b: Fun
c: refreshing from other games
I think WAR can be all 3 with out 24 classes and 6 capitals.
It'll be fine, 1 side on each side will be missing a tank, tanks will move over to that side, it's not like it's even hard to change areas. just be teleported over via one of the npcs.
Anyone know why EQ1 still has the die hard fan base that it does? Because they are constantly adding content....Think of it as something to look forward to rather than something taken away...oh and wait until your voice changes before trying to use adult words that you misspell.
If you'd included an option to "Wait longer for the developers to deliver something they're happy with and proud of", I'd pick that. Now I just voted "wait longer" with a competely incorrect "opinion text" just to see the results.
Oh, and starting to make "clever" nicknames like "Failhammer" even before the game is out and purely on personal opinions is silly, in my personal and silly opinion. ;-)
1. Content is going to get cut at this stage. I have never heard of a single game that hasn't cut content at this stage. No, I'm not talking just about MMOs, EVERY game cuts content when its in the run up to the last few months. 4 classes weren't cutting the cheese so they bit the dust.
2. Only two end-game capitals... I'm sorry but what is there to complain about here? Once these things go live, there are going to be a TON of bugs, no matter how much beta testing goes on. This way they focus on fixing and adding to two cities for the first few months, learn from their mistakes and then start rolling out the other cities.
3. The class cut issue isn't really an issue for races as much as it might have been for other MMOs, why? Because Mythic have constantly stated that they will not be completely following the standard class boundaries. The support classes are considered to be able to dish out a fair amount of damage and take it too (eg. Warrior Priest) so while tanks are important, I don't think the lack of them will hurt Empire or Dark Elves, especially not at the lower levels (and seeing as we are being encouraged to race mingle at higher levels with the two capitals ect. then everything should hopefully balance out).
4. Delying another 6 months might sound reasonable considering the previous delays but EVERYONE has a budget and a time limit, especially games companies. At least they're being honest about the cuts.
5. Let's wait and see what happens post-launch. I think people giving up on a game before its even released is foolish. As for graphical compliants, please, the damn things in closed beta, nearly everything will be running low spec. Wait till after the launch and people running it on high before slatting of the graphics happens (oh and finally, no complaints about Wars art direction, Warhammer has been this way for 25 years and they are definitely keeping with it's feel).
Comments
I find your lack of faith, disturbing...
I'm for one is really looking forward to this game
I am still looking for a game good enough for me to play least 6-12 months. Warhammer is in my list but I don't like the race and class in this game. It is problem because if you dont like the race or class you created, how can you like the game.
Hopefully, Warhammer will make the race or least the character look better.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Wow...still beating the same dead horse Hop? The only thing I'm remotely concerned about is the lack of 2 tanks. But when your at a disadvantage you improvise, adapt, and overcome. Those 6 mega keeps they added will also make endgame a little more interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I have one question for you did you listen to anything that Mark Jacob said in all his interviews after Mythic made the announcement about all the changes. Really from everything you just said you didn't read one thing he wrote. You really need to do some research or stop trolling on Warhammer topics. From his own words if Mythic feel the game is not polished to perfect they would push it back again. Mythic is shooting for a fun and great game not for some cheap quick cash get your info straight before you say something. Also are you even in the beta if not shut the hell up and wait til the game come out your wasting knowledge. Last thing please don't play the game I hate to see people like you play games criticize a game even before it is launched retarded people. game comes out your wasting knowledge. Last thing please don't play the game I hate to see people like you play games criticize a game before its even launched.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
can I have your stuff?
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
They've already stated that they are putting polish on the exsisting content...I don't know what you are talking about.
There were 2 people that suggested their should be a delay. I think I will wait until the NDA, because I sure as hell am not basing my opinion on two people who came here probably to whine. You seem very sure that the majority of the Beta community will be asking for a delay. Basing this on 2 or 3 people is not the smartest move.
Murky? Hardly. And how has the entire game been 'turned on it's head'? We still have endgame and we still have 20 unique careers. That's more than a good chunk or recent games can say.
The fact is there is no need for a delay. All of the features are in game except the Auction House. We even have mega fortresses to act as our stand-in cities until they are phased into the game. Now how many times are you going to continue to beat a horse that's been beat, thrown in a ditch, stabbed, eyes gouged out, placed in the center of a highway, run over, set on fire, burnt to a crisp, placed in it's grave, dug back up, and blown up with a rocket launcher?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Decisions have to be made. They have three choices:
A. Cut the content and put it in post launch
B. Delay the game
C. Keep the content in, even though it's not "great"
They chose A. Now, I don't know how "great" the classes were, but I do know the cities wouldn't have made it in probably in in less than 6 months. A 6 month delay would have caused a much larger out roar, or at least I think so. I know I would be a lot more aggravated at a 6 month delay rather than the content cut. I'd rather be playing the game while they are working on the content.
As Mythic said, I can almost guarantee 80% or more of the WAR players don't even know about the content cut. A lot of people don't even follow the development, believe it or not. People go "Oh hey, this looks like the next big MMO" and they go and preorder it. Mythic isn't really losing many people from the content cut, in my opinion.
Now a delay, everybody that preorder would know about it. In my opinion, a lot of folks would be like "Hey, this game isn't coming out for a long time still, I wonder if I can transfer my store credit to another game, and buy it closer to release." I have done that before, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I've read the threat. Anyone can say they're in beta. It's the internet, you must be gullible or desperate to believe everything someone says. I know what I've seen, in real life, about the game, and my opinion obviously differs from others about the beta because I think it's doing great.
You seem to think once NDA is lifted, it's going to be all negativity. Sure, there will be people saying it needs delayed, but there will also be people saying beta is going great. Wait until you experience the game yourself before judging it, not going off what someone who is supposedly in beta thinks.
And many others? From what I've seen about supposed beta players on multiple forums, is there is quite a few more people that are enjoying it rather than saying it needs delayed. The whole game hasn't been turned based on the content cuts, that's just foolish. It's changed things, yes, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
I think a 6 month delay would hurt than rather than not. How is 4 classes going to change the long term of the game? We could be playing the game them 6 months while they get the classes out, instead of sitting here waiting. 4 classes aren't going to change the end part of the game.
The cities, yes. But you also have to consider us being spread out with 6 cities. Personally, I'd rather have us all at city for launch to bring the community closer together at launch, and then spread us other as the months go on with the last 4 cities.
Wait until the NDA is lifted, because I know it's not going to be all doom and gloom, there's going to be a lot of "It's so awesome!" posts too, because the beta players I've seen and talked to seem pretty content. Some aren't, but a lot of them are.
See this is the split in mentality with the MMORPG community
You rather pay them to play a game assuming they put in the content in down the line while I rather wait for them to put in the content then pay to play the game.
After what we witnessed with Dark and Light, Vanguard, AoC, etc I am suprised people are still willing to jump in head first with blind faith.
Where did you come up with the 80% figure? If such a high number of people do not know about the content cuts then this reflects on the poor ability of Mythic and the fansites to relay this information (And the lack of an official message board). I doubt that number is accurate and you were just taking a wild guess.
Ironic that you say anyone could claim they are in the beta so why should I believe you when you say you have seen it? it is in the internet after all right? I choose to believe you and those that have posted in the thread. If I was to dismiss what some have said in this thread then I will choose to dismiss what you have said. Funny how that works?
Once the NDA lifted there will be enormous feedback about delaying the game. Since when does advocating the delay of a game in any way signify negativity?
Please provide evidence that a delay (other than your opinion) would hurt the game? I can provide evidence that the delays in the past have not hurt the game and anticipation for this game has grown since the last delay.
If the classes cut out were not important they wouldn't bother introducing them in the game at some point. They would devote their time and energies elsewhere.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Re-read this thread (if you can stomach it
) and you will find the answer you seek about polish if you can absorb the hints.
Also if content is being cut it means they are trying to catch up so the game could be polished at launch. If the game was already polished they wouldn't consider cutting content out becuase that would not make any sense.
Many feel EA has very little influence but I find that hard to believe. This is the same EA that decided to rush out Command and Conquer Generals, cut out portions of the game and re-package the cut out content in an expansion called Zero Hour. All the content found in Zero Hour was originally was supposed to be part of Generals, and was a core part of the game that was re-sold to the public out of EA's care for the consumer.
For the best long term possibility of the game (and an oppurtunity to stop this silly trend with rushed out MMORPG's) the game should be delayed. I hope when the NDA is lifted those itching to share information with us will convey the same feelings.
Let me start out by saying I believe EA had influence on the decision, but I also believe it was up to Mythic to make the decision. I don't know if there are just trolls here, or people who really think the current state of the game is awful, but I've seen game play of it because I have friends here locally that got into the CB. No, I haven't gotten into beta, but from what I've seen the core features are working, and there's already a lot of polish done. And they just got done saying from now until launch is high polish and bug squashing mode, except for a few small features. From what I've seen, the screen shots and videos don't really justify the game play.
Long term possibility of the game is looking great, in my opinion. They made content cuts, ya. What MMO doesn't? Did you know even WoW made content cuts? Look at how far that MMO has gotten. And they didn't even have a lot to do endgame, 3 raids IIRC, the 4rth one came quite a while after launch. Content cuts happen all the time in MMOs. It's not really "rushed" out, it would take another 6+ months to get in 4 cities of quality that they want, and 4 classes that they are not even sure what they're going to be at this point. A 6 month delay would really hurt them, a lot more than the content cut. There's still A LOT of content in the game.
There's still quite a bit of content polish to be done, but it's coming. 2 more months at least of polish and bug squashing, and Mythic is actually fixing and polishing it until some certain MMO companies =P
I find it hard to believe Mythic would make such a rash decision IMVHO. To be blunt it seem unorthodox of them considering they have delayed the game in the past to get it right and they have been very consistent about it up till now. It is clear that the strings are being pulled by none other than EA.
You clearly have a different view what polish means than what I and many others do. When you cut content out it means you need to devote that extra time to put on the polish for the rest of the game that is already in.
I am suprised you didn't take the time to read this thread because there were some posts that implicitly talked about how the game should be delayed by those inside the beta. As I mentioned before once the NDA is lifted your perspective may need to be re-evaluated because there will be feedback from the beta testers echoing the need for a delay.
Long term possibility of the game looks murky to me given that the entire course of the game has been turned on its head based on these content cuts. Some say it is for the better but once again wait for the NDA to be lifted....
I completely disagree that a six month delay would hurt them. Honestly how would a delay now hurt them when delays in the past have not hurt them? I have not seen any evidence of the anticipation of the game waning when a delay was announced in fact the opposite reaction is what I have observed.
Decisions have to be made. They have three choices:
A. Cut the content and put it in post launch
B. Delay the game
C. Keep the content in, even though it's not "great"
They chose A. Now, I don't know how "great" the classes were, but I do know the cities wouldn't have made it in probably in in less than 6 months. A 6 month delay would have caused a much larger out roar, or at least I think so. I know I would be a lot more aggravated at a 6 month delay rather than the content cut. I'd rather be playing the game while they are working on the content.
As Mythic said, I can almost guarantee 80% or more of the WAR players don't even know about the content cut. A lot of people don't even follow the development, believe it or not. People go "Oh hey, this looks like the next big MMO" and they go and preorder it. Mythic isn't really losing many people from the content cut, in my opinion.
Now a delay, everybody that preorder would know about it. In my opinion, a lot of folks would be like "Hey, this game isn't coming out for a long time still, I wonder if I can transfer my store credit to another game, and buy it closer to release." I have done that before, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I've read the threat. Anyone can say they're in beta. It's the internet, you must be gullible or desperate to believe everything someone says. I know what I've seen, in real life, about the game, and my opinion obviously differs from others about the beta because I think it's doing great.
You seem to think once NDA is lifted, it's going to be all negativity. Sure, there will be people saying it needs delayed, but there will also be people saying beta is going great. Wait until you experience the game yourself before judging it, not going off what someone who is supposedly in beta thinks.
And many others? From what I've seen about supposed beta players on multiple forums, is there is quite a few more people that are enjoying it rather than saying it needs delayed. The whole game hasn't been turned based on the content cuts, that's just foolish. It's changed things, yes, but it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
I think a 6 month delay would hurt than rather than not. How is 4 classes going to change the long term of the game? We could be playing the game them 6 months while they get the classes out, instead of sitting here waiting. 4 classes aren't going to change the end part of the game.
The cities, yes. But you also have to consider us being spread out with 6 cities. Personally, I'd rather have us all at city for launch to bring the community closer together at launch, and then spread us other as the months go on with the last 4 cities.
Wait until the NDA is lifted, because I know it's not going to be all doom and gloom, there's going to be a lot of "It's so awesome!" posts too, because the beta players I've seen and talked to seem pretty content. Some aren't, but a lot of them are.
See this is the split in mentality with the MMORPG community
You rather pay them to play a game assuming they put in the content in down the line while I rather wait for them to put in the content then pay to play the game.
After what we witnessed with Dark and Light, Vanguard, AoC, etc I am suprised people are still willing to jump in head first with blind faith.
Where did you come up with the 80% figure? If such a high number of people do not know about the content cuts then this reflects on the poor ability of Mythic and the fansites to relay this information (And the lack of an official message board). I doubt that number is accurate and you were just taking a wild guess.
Ironic that you say anyone could claim they are in the beta so why should I believe you when you say you have seen it? it is in the internet after all right? I choose to believe you and those that have posted in the thread. If I was to dismiss what some have said in this thread then I will choose to dismiss what you have said. Funny how that works?
Once the NDA lifted there will be enormous feedback about delaying the game. Since when does advocating the delay of a game in any way signify negativity?
Please provide evidence that a delay (other than your opinion) would hurt the game? I can provide evidence that the delays in the past have not hurt the game and anticipation for this game has grown since the last delay.
If the classes cut out were not important they wouldn't bother introducing them in the game at some point. They would devote their time and energies elsewhere.
Mythic has earned our trust through what they've accomplished with DAOC. They've always been open with the community. Stop throwing a company that has earned our trust in the past with all those others.
The 80% comes from the people that have never set foot in a forum. Do you think only the forums community will buy the game? no. I know a lot of people have heard about WAR through people talking about it in Trade channel on their servers in WoW. There is a lot of buzz going on about this game and a lot of people know about it through word of mouth. I'd say the forums community is even less than 20% of what they'll end up with.
There won't be a delay. Period. They've already stated that they have everything in game except the Auction House which they are working on and should have in soon.
I believe he stated in another thread that there would be a lot of people who would just cancel their Pre-order to try another game instead. I think another delay would significantly hurt the base of their community. I, personally, would not wait if they delayed it. I would head back to WoW and continue grinding my way to the level cap. They don't want this game to turn into another LotRO, which had a fantasticly smooth launch, but nothing really happened after that...it didn't steal all that many players from WoW. This game has the potential to take a good chunk of Bliizard's PvP community...and you're going to have to strike while the iron is hot. In six months it will be too cool.
They obviously see the importance of the classes, but they aren't game-breaking. With the lack of the 2 tanks people are just going to find knew ways to work with what they have. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I personally cannot WAIT.
Wenn nichts mehr geht
Werd' ich ein engel sein - Für dich allein
Und dir in jeder dunklen nacht erschein'
Und dann fliegen wir weit weg von hier
Wir werden uns nie mehr verlier'n
A few short comments (yes I am in the beta).
Firstly I think Mythic did the right thing with both the cities and the four classes. Since it was a design given in the first place to only have one city siegable at a time (for good RvR - pretty obvious once you start to think about it) and rotate cities, the next decision to start out with two but with expanded number of instances, more quests and larger conflicted RvR city zones was a good one.
With the classes I honestly cannot care less. There are now 20 classes in the game (10 melee and 10 ranged) and with less melee-DPS and melee-tanks they can flesh out the current tanks and melee DPS classes more. If anything a good move but I do not think it is very important for the game.
As to the comparisons with AoC and other games apart from WoW I must say that the level of analysis is staggering low and shallow. Let's start with Mythic - it is almost the only developer with a solid reputation apart from Blizzard in the MMO arena today so I think some faith is in order. The second point is that what every beta tester can say: There are so many zones, quests and things to do it is almost stupid (the key debate at the forums is whether you should be able to stay only in your race pairing all the way to rank 40 or not - and it is darn close at the moment that is possible with moderate RvR activity). And there is months of end-game content at launch that is being beta tested right now. I would say that is almost a first in the MMO history (that the first tier of end-game is openly tested). Combat mechanics are tweaked and looks good. So in my book the comparison with AoC does not make sense at all.
So what are my worries?
My primary worry is that WAR is designed for large scale RvR by a Company with alot of heart but limited resources. Large scale RvR means that time-to-kill is long and that individual combat is pretty far away from the FPS genre (as opposed to WoW which is much closer than WAR to FPS). Limited resources means that all that polish that can go into animations and sounds might not be there at launch.
Add those two data points together and you can get a limited EvE effect from the WoW player base 'This game is crap, my char moves funny and it took me 30sec to kill a Boar. Fock this.'
The textures that looks godly as high resolution onces (only seen in some released promo material) might counter this with Destruction's cool look.
As a player (currently only EvE and some WoW as a chat-room) I know I will play WAR based on the beta. It is good enough for me right now.
Edit:What will not be tested in the beta (AFAIK): High-resolution textures, the complete sound files, without debugger in the background (so server synch might be funny all the time). What looks weak in the beta at the moment: Crafting and itemization.
Hoplites:
1.
How do you know cutting out the cities wasn't just the right thing to do? I like it how people make assumptions on here then you say wait for the NDA to be lifted. But your open to make uneducated guesses on everything.
2.
Have you ever witnessed a game being "polished" in beta? Sounds to me that's exactly what they are doing. Did you know during WoW's last two months of "polish" they cut two dungeons and were still debating whether or not to even have a druid class. 10 classes total and they might have went with only 9 just two months before launch?!? The content cut was the last big event to happen then they are going to polish phase.
3.
No matter how great this game is. It won't take off for at least 6 months. During that 6 months more polishing happens, content that was left out is slowly put in and the "buzz" about how good or bad the game starts to circulate. Then you will see subs coming in from other games.
Yes, that is how MMO's are released. Content is always cut right before Open beta. It happened in EQ, EQ2, SWG, WoW and even WoW's TBC expansion. No MMO as taken off right at launch and no MMO was at "full" content either.
What matters in the first 6-12 months is if the game is
a: Playable
b: Fun
c: refreshing from other games
I think WAR can be all 3 with out 24 classes and 6 capitals.
It'll be fine, 1 side on each side will be missing a tank, tanks will move over to that side, it's not like it's even hard to change areas. just be teleported over via one of the npcs.
Long as they dont cut the Dwarf Engineer class, Ill still be there on day one just to play a non standard (ie rogue warrior cleric mage) class.
I bet if OP wasnt in beta now he wouldnt want the game to be pushed back another 6 months
Anyone know why EQ1 still has the die hard fan base that it does? Because they are constantly adding content....Think of it as something to look forward to rather than something taken away...oh and wait until your voice changes before trying to use adult words that you misspell.
I understand that they didn't plan to implement all the races and classes into the online game at the very beginning.
I myself won't buy the game until all the races and classes are implementet into the online game that exists in the tabletop game.
If you'd included an option to "Wait longer for the developers to deliver something they're happy with and proud of", I'd pick that. Now I just voted "wait longer" with a competely incorrect "opinion text" just to see the results.
Oh, and starting to make "clever" nicknames like "Failhammer" even before the game is out and purely on personal opinions is silly, in my personal and silly opinion. ;-)
My two pence:
1. Content is going to get cut at this stage. I have never heard of a single game that hasn't cut content at this stage. No, I'm not talking just about MMOs, EVERY game cuts content when its in the run up to the last few months. 4 classes weren't cutting the cheese so they bit the dust.
2. Only two end-game capitals... I'm sorry but what is there to complain about here? Once these things go live, there are going to be a TON of bugs, no matter how much beta testing goes on. This way they focus on fixing and adding to two cities for the first few months, learn from their mistakes and then start rolling out the other cities.
3. The class cut issue isn't really an issue for races as much as it might have been for other MMOs, why? Because Mythic have constantly stated that they will not be completely following the standard class boundaries. The support classes are considered to be able to dish out a fair amount of damage and take it too (eg. Warrior Priest) so while tanks are important, I don't think the lack of them will hurt Empire or Dark Elves, especially not at the lower levels (and seeing as we are being encouraged to race mingle at higher levels with the two capitals ect. then everything should hopefully balance out).
4. Delying another 6 months might sound reasonable considering the previous delays but EVERYONE has a budget and a time limit, especially games companies. At least they're being honest about the cuts.
5. Let's wait and see what happens post-launch. I think people giving up on a game before its even released is foolish. As for graphical compliants, please, the damn things in closed beta, nearly everything will be running low spec. Wait till after the launch and people running it on high before slatting of the graphics happens (oh and finally, no complaints about Wars art direction, Warhammer has been this way for 25 years and they are definitely keeping with it's feel).