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They aren't giving OPTIONS, they are making it so that the solo path is the most benefitial one, and there is no real need to join up with anyone else.
How are there options when there's a need for something? Slight oxymoron, no? Why do you have to be made to group for you to group if you enjoy grouping? Second how have you come to the conclusion that soloing is the most beneficial way to play? When grouped everything comes along faster from XP to the rate in which you burn through content, a major reason I don't want to be made to group in a game all about story and character RP. Either way grouping tends to always be the most beneficial playstyle. You simply level faster any way you look at it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Basically, we're getting George Lucas's: Guild Wars, which is not worth a monthly fee.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
In your personal parlance you may define such games however you wish, however to gaming as a whole "MMO" covers WoW and many other games -- the term is fairly broad in meaning.
Hence why it needs better classification. How can someone call a game an MMO when its designed to be done solo, without seeing any other players?
The original MMOs, EverQuest, which were massive in design, and social, can keep the MMO name, games like SWTOR need a new name.
You mean like how Starcraft and Age of Empires shouldn't be called strategy games because they aren't like Civilization? MMO is a perfectly good term. WoW has many areas that can't be done solo, and all areas allow grouping (even if that isn't necessarily optimal in solo-enabled areas). Pretty much all end-game content is group-based. Frankly, TOR seems to be the same in these vague respects (though it differs widely in others).
Of course, Starcraft is a Real-Time Strategy game, and games like Civilization got called Turn-Based Strategy. If you want to call WoW an MMOTESS (MMO That Enables Some Soloing) then be my guest, but I don't think the difference between that and MMOTRG (MMO That Requies Grouping) is enough for most people to care judging by the fact WoW has been around for over half a decade and no significant number of people have decided it needs to be distinguished from Everquest and Final Fantasy XI. Frankly, the distinction you are trying to make seems rather unclear and unspecific as best I can tell, like trying to make a big difference between Quake or Doom III and Unreal Tournament -- it's something that would require a panel of judges to determine what category MMOs go into and there'd be a lot of disputes and disagreements over it. That, or you just don't like using the "Old School MMO" term that is occasionally tossed around.
Basically, we're getting George Lucas's: Guild Wars, which is not worth a monthly fee.
I'll give you the benefit of doubt, that you're not talking about there being no background "build up" into whats going on in the lore? If so a simple trip to their website will pretty much blow that theory out of the water.
I won't argue that's its not instanced and zoned I would bet it is in large part. Personally that's not a big problem to me, for others it is.
As far as a monthly fee goes, the first 30 days will come with the box I'm sure, if it's sub based. I won't feel to ripped if I don't play past that point. Even then if its true that each class has close to the length of KOTOR in regard to story content. I'll gladly pay 15$ a month at least until I've played through each once. The way gaming is today that's quite a bit of game for your dollar compared to the ever growing RMT crap in single player games. Plus I will also be able to PVP to some extent I don't really see how that's bad. It's just me I guess, I'm a tastless bastage forgive me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Personally, I think this is a cynical and greedy move by Bioware that is taking the online game dynamic in an unpleasant direction - whereas you once just
boughta game and that was that, now you have to
buythe game and then
rentit indefinitely for some online features that are not apparently necessary to play the game anwyay. In other words, they seem to be planning to make us pay for something that was once free. Nice. I am very interested to see how the fanbois are going to spin this.
Spot on! That seems to sum it up exactly.
I am sorry but it is becoming increasingly clear that Bioware uses MMO terminology in a way that is different from MMO players.
Their are many on here who are putting up links quoting the devs saying "this is a mmorpg,well ok,ill quote a dev.
"the ENTIRE game is solable" now this is what a dev has said from his very own month. He didn't say some of the game or only up to the end game,he used the word "entire" that means the whole game,everything. He then when on to say that you can group with friends,they have not said if the mobs will be harder in a group or if ill get more xp or better loot, nothing.
Now you can say "well group content is harder"yeah that's what we are used to but has BioWare changed this in their mission to bring change to the mmorpg format.
Open world ..ok.
Funcom said their world was open but we all found out that it was not the case. Bioware need to explain what they call "open world" because i have a feeling it's not what many of us would call open world.
Open world= no boarders,go anywhere the eye can see with know restrictions, if i can't climb that mountain then i should be able to fly over it or walk round it's base,no instances, i mean none at all, if i walk far enough i should end up on the same spot i started on.
We already know that the above will not be true of swtor so calling it an "open world" is lying and insulting are brain matter.
There will be raiding, ermm ok ,is it me and my posh pet called a compantion or is it the type of raids that we are used to,know one knows.
All the fan boys know in this forum is as much as anyone else,but don't worry the time is coming when we wont have wait for BioWare to tell the truth or show us,the Beta Leaks will do that job....Thank God.
BioWare seem to think they are dealing with their single RPG fan base,they have know idea how the mmorpg fan base works,we won't be convinced until we see the proof.
I will be honest,i have no problem with the solo part because ill be two boxing anyway but don't lie about it,just come out and tell the truth. The open world bit is my concern,it's a real game breaker.
Do i have to load to get into buildings? are their loading screens? can i walk across the planet without zoning?
These things need to be answered but if BioWare don't want to then i know the leaker's will.
Its quickly becoming apparent the majority of people here can not read.
I can read this: "...the entire game is soloable...'.
for the love of Wookies can we STFU about this, still way to early to even bitch this much
I am so good, I backstabbed your face!
Sorry, this is a free forum,if you don't like it then don't read the freaking thread,it's that easy.
The door is that way>
The devs also said there would be raids. While it's possible the dev who said the entire game was soloable meant the level process is solo to max like WoW, I don't think it's possible to use the term raid and have it mean a single player. The "entire game is soloable" is probably out of context.
It bears repeating while people hurting their head trying to classify if the game is open world or instanced,I just care if it is good fun game to play.Mass effect is good game,Dragon Age is a good game,Jade Empire is good game,Kotor is a good game,If by your definition it is not good mmo ok whatever,It will be good game where many people can play good game together that is all that matters.I will be having fun.
Unfortunately, this is nothing but a single player game with a monthly charge. That is the direction most new games coming out that claim to be mmorpg's. Instead of 5 - 6 years to make, it takes 2 - 3 years for these new claimed mmorpg games. The reason developers are doing it, time, less investment, people pay for it and its quick revenue now with a monthly charge. Any person with common sense can see the trend.
Ask yourself this, if I can turn off my internet connection and still play the whole game without missing anything that was intended really, is it an mmorpg. No
Now what is a mmorpg? That can be answered like this. Can you play Eve Online, SWG Pre CU, Everquest etc offline and have a good gaming experience, No
I am pretty confident this game could be played entirely off line and gamers would have a blast. I believe its going to be an awesome game but it certainly does not need to be online or even have a monthly charge.
Its nothing but a revenue grab, which has nothing to do with a gamer enjoying or not enjoying the game.
The devs also said there would be raids. While it's possible the dev who said the entire game was soloable meant the level process is solo to max like WoW, I don't think it's possible to use the term raid and have it mean a single player. The "entire game is soloable" is probably out of context.
But this is what i mean, the fan boys want us to read the quotes from the devs and shut up but as soon as we quote a dev ,it's twisted by fan boys to mean something else.
You can say "he probably or he meant or it's possible" when what he said was "the ENTIRE game is solable" he said nothing about level process or WOW,that's you assuming because you can't imagine anything else but i am quoting a dev just like you fan boys like to do.
He then went on to say you can group with friends if you want as well. He said nothing about group content being any different than solo content,he didn't say mobs are harder he didn't say loots better,all he said is that you can group up with friends if you prefer to group.
He also said they have raids,well he didn't put any number to them raids,i could go out and raid a bank by myself. For all you know ,BioWare idea of raiding is nothing like what you are used to or WOW or you expect,it could be me and my posh pet called a companion for all you know.
As of now until they say anything different,i will have to go by a DEV word,you know someone who is actually making the game, that the "entire" game is solable.
Are you saying the dev is lying about his own game?
It's not as if he has come back and said "oh i didn't mean literally" nope he has let the comment stick.
Do i believe you a fan boy or do i actually believe what a dev has said out of his own month,you can't have it both ways.
Whats your brief bub, I am the seer and I have been gaming before your father was born. I have been wrong...we live we learn, adapt and grow stronger and smarter. You are too quick to judge...
Hork, you are always wrong! At what point does the seer become the charlatan? I suppose eventually you'll be proven right one day but no need to keep proclaiming every new game that comes along as a WOW killer, it devalues your opinion considerably.
This game won't kill WOW, because its becoming increasingly clear that the design is considerably different from a traditional MMO and whenever I read about it I keep thinking, "just like Guild Wars, but with deeper story lines"
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it didn't follow the GW's pricing model of buying the base modules and not charging a monthly fee.
But it has to be said, just because the game isn't a virtual world (which I prefer) doesn't mean it won't be wildly appealing to a significant portion of the gaming market and be fun for those folks. We all have different tastes.
I won't totally discard the game yet, it probably would be fun to play through the campaigns for each class at least once, just not quite sure there would be any long term appeal. Of course, they probably will make expansion packs that give new campaigns to each class and that's probably their long term marketing strategy.
One thing is certain, they are creating something a bit different than what's currently out there and only time will tell whether they are true visionaries or just another also ran.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think too may people had the wool pulled over their eyes when they saw the words STAR WARS + BIOWARE + MMO. For those not blinded by the announcement we saw TOR for what it was going to be and slowly others are now starting to see that as well. Why does anyone want to PAY for Star Wars Diablo when they can just wait and play Diablo 3 for FREE?
So its a Diablo clone instead of a WOW clone?
WOW is just a first person diablo clone and poeple pay for that *shrug*
Hmm. That's funny. I rarely solo'd in WoW. But then again, I had a very very good guild. And first person? Hmm....are there that many people that play WoW in first person perspective? I suppose you CAN....
WoW ISN'T a "solo game," it's a solo-friendly game. There is, by the way, a difference. You don't HAVE to solo in WoW at ALL anymore. After about level 13, you can run with groups day and in and day out now, from what I understand, and that's even if you're so socially inept you can't seem to find a good guild for yourself, or even if you don't WANT a "guild." So....your comment is just another WoW-hater comment with little basis in fact.
But back to the topic at hand....
I think a lot of us (or at least myself) were hoping this was going to really sort of be SWG re-done, done right, and not screwed over by SoE. This description of the game, however, makes it appear to be more of a multi-player coop / solo-friendly type game. I'm not sure that it's an "MMO" now, at least not in the traditional sense of the word that we've come to know. Maybe a little more like Neverwinter Nights or Diablo 2, like one poster said. Those games are multi-player coop games, not really MMOs. (Or like GW, but with a deeper story line, like Kyleran said. It IS sounding that way.....)
So ugh....
While I was really hopeful for this game....now I'm feeling I probably need to be a little more guarded about getting too psyched too soon.
Ah well. I'm sure there will be other games if this one doesn't suit me. And there will undoubtedly still be many people that will LOVE this idea. I'm not going to write it off yet. We still don't really know that much, I don't think. I suppose time will tell....as with all games that are not released yet.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I am not saying it's a bad idea but at least tell the freaking truth and don't take mmorpg gamers for idiots,we have seen to many dev teams use the same tactics,we are not idiots.
BioWare's fanbase will love it and perhaps we are missing the point which is ,BioWare are happy with their core supporters which are in the millions to by this game,they know that a couple of million subs a month will be very nice,so they don't have to please the real mmorpg gaming crowd who are mmorpg fans not star war fans or bioware fans.
From what i have read at the site about the different classes and their abilities/skills for buffing group members...it sounds like a mmorpg.....with a quest line and flash-points for each class. Yes it is solo friendly....but i dont know yet if everything can be solo'ed out...i will have to wait till beta to know for sure
as a fan of starwars in general i hope this game does well, considering good old lucus certainly tries his hardest to destroy all of my childhood memories. im sure they chose p2p because starwars has a cult following(and will most likely pay more for crap most people don't want) after an anitial month of success and 2 months of dwindling subs the talks of a shift too f2p with cash shops will start.
what really erks me is how people seem too think bioware is this amazingly great and infallible rpg maker. people through out names like kotor,jade dynasty,mass effect, and dragon age disraguarding the fact that these are all the same game. now i understand the saying"if it ain't broke don't fix it" but come one in 7 years of gaming they can't alter the mold even a little bit. i mean its no wonder you hav companies following in line cough. cough. bethesda. i bought kotor and loved it, i bought jade dynasty and liked it, i bought masseffect kinda liked it didn't finish it(to many other games to play) my brother bought dragon age, i played it and now hate bioware for the same reason i hate rockstar.
too all of you old republic fanbois, dont lose hope, darkfall had way more haters sitting at home waiting too tear apart your post second after you post it. don't know if you noticed but darkfall found its niche and suvived the wave after wave of unwarrented critisism. now for all the haters have you ever stoped to think that all your grumbling is really doing is making this game the neverending point of discussion on mmorpg.com, i mean free publicity is good publicity....... even if you think its bad publicity.
p.s. my bad. im not going to go back and fix all my spelling and grammar mistakes though.
Man, can't you split that massive wall of text up please?
I am not trying to be rude but the eyes hurt trying to read it.
It's not about hate it's about telling the truth and not misleading people. You never know ,players might like what BioWare are offering but at least be honest and don't hide anything.
Are BioWare so far up their own ass that they don't think the leaks will come thick and fast once the testing starts,then we will hear it from testers instead of BioWare.
No matter what, BioWare will be exposed for lying or telling the truth in not to distant future.
I have no doubt this will be a good game. However, it doesn't sound like it is going to fit into what I desire in an MMORPG and thus I will not be purchasing it. I doubt they will care/notice.
Real MMORPG gamers need to realise that they are now a minority audience in their own genre, it got invaded by the FPS/RTS/Single-player RPG fans & they think we are the old dinosaurs that are all but extinct, our gaming ethos is dead, or on life-support with only the old crusty grandfather games even supporting that style of gameplay anymore.
The "new wave" is here & it's the Massively Single-Player game design in it's core, WoW and most games since, with a few exceptions, are all in the same vein, it's like "other people you don't know" are all immediately relegated to the masses of retards/griefers/assholes pile.
I don't know if SW:ToR will simply follow in WoW's footsteps & focus on catering to the Single-Player gamer that makes up the BULK of the current gaming audience, or whether it will try to be building a wide-open world that feels like a living breathing universe with every gamer mixing, socialising & influencing one another, or some kind of hybrid that attempts to offerboth gamestyles, but everything we have SEEN screams "single-player storyline driven game that you "can" play with your friends IF you want to" that doesn't mean that the massively multiplayer gamestyle isn't catered to, just that if they are doing that we haven't SEEN it......yet.
I'm keeping an open mind, like an earlier poster said there's nothing to say that massive gaming & solo storyline an't co-exist in the same title, it just hasn't been done before, until it's been attempted there's no way to judge if it works or not.
I do hope Bioware haven't put the massive gaming style on the back-burner or put it in as a pale shadow afterthought to the solo game they have thus far elaborated on, but there's a long way to go yet.
Well I can't see how any of us are qualified to make any type of judgement on the game yet. Most people here are basing there reactions off a single article in a magazine written buy some guy/girl that most of us have never met.
Now I am not saying the game is or isn't like Guild Wars or XX game. Cause at this point in time with the information we know WE have no idea what the game is like. People can speculate and guess all they want but until such a time that you see the game in action you really have no idea. To jump all over a game because it doesn't fit your bill of what the game should have been when you don't even know the facts about the game isn't doing anything for anyone.
This whole WoW Killer thing is just dumb. I would have figured by now that you all would have learned that the only game that can be a WoW Killer is WoW itself. Until Blizzard decides to shut the game down and stop working on it nothing is gonig to come along and push WoW out of the number one market spot. No matter how bad people complain its not what they want and no matter how hard developers try to best WoW it just is not going to happen. WoW had so many things going for it that such a thing happening ageain just isn't possible. Timing, Market Saturation, Existing playerbase, Massive Hype, Experience, Money, ect..
I won't comment on SWTOR other then that we know its not going to be like SWG. They have stated as much and the track record of SWG shows that at that time people where just not interested in the gameplay / gametype that SWG had. I imagine SWTOR is going to be a mix of WoW and Guild Wars because simply looking at the gameplay videos gives you this WoW feeling to how the game plays. I imagine the game is going to be instanced because well thats just the future of MMO's rather we like it or not that is where the genre is headed regardless if we fight it tooth and nail or not.