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Confirmed in just released PC Gamer Magazine!
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Oh we realize it, but as you can see on this site as well as many others, we arent going down without a fight. The problem is, we cant get what we want either because of the "new" crowd comming in and demanding changes or devs wanting to hop on the bandwagon.
Back on topic, I am now betting swtor to be a guildwars type game with FTP elements as in paying for area unlocks etc. It will be something like what they did in DA origins and some like what eq2 did in its 1st few years. Just looking at what info we have and what devs have said, this prediction makes logical sense.
To me, thats an even scarier place for the genre to be then the WoW era.
The OP doesn't provide a link and you don't verify his claim, so I fully expect you to jump on the bandwagon. It's only natural. Here's what I found from my scrounging:
"Combat and dialogue in TOR plays more
like the Knights of The Old Republic games
than I had expected. It’s not exactly the
same, of course, and things will change
when we get our first companion characters
(since you can’t pause to give them specifi c
orders like in KOTOR), but so far the action is
fast-paced and feels distinctively like Star
Wars. Most of all, The Old Republic
feels like an attempt to build a
bridge between the gameplay of
BioWare’s traditional singleplayer
RPGs and the new world
of MMORPGs, with the ultimate
goal of settling into a spot that enjoys
the strengths of both types."
Sounds a little different than what the OP posted, right? Either he's a troll or he was being sarcastic. Probably the latter. Claims like his have been made since this game was announced.
Oh, and I have a link! www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Jan10_StarWars.pdf
You DO realize you linked to the January issue and the Op is talking about the February issue which just came out.. right? Careful when you start calling other folks trolls...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Sounds like Guild Wars more and more. Except Guild Wars devs were not LAZY and actually designed their engine instead of just using a pre made Heroes Journey code. Guild Wars 2 looks pretty amazing so far. I bet GW2 will be more "MMO" then TOR
This is the best news SOE could want, as the SWG community will not be happy loosing so many sandbox elements they have with SWG.
Hopefully SOE will take advantage and keep steering SWG to it's sandbox roots.
Bottom line is both of us have to stretch a quote from a dev to fit into what we think is the most likely truth. I just picked the one I found more logically sound.
So. Basically its single player RPG that you pay 15$ monthly to play ?
Way to go for MMOs
I guess genre is dead.
I am a Bioware fan, I love all their rpgs but the more I read the more I get the sense this game was designed to solo right from the start with the option for co-op play. It isn't horrible but I am not sure this is what the mmo crowd wanted from Bioware. Bioware needs to understand that the rpg crowd is so much different than the mmo crowd. You need to cater to the mmo crowd in a different way. If this game turns out to be something like Guild Wars but with less instancing then I will not be disappointed but I'll never quite understand why the devs are so stubborn in not giving players open seemless worlds to play in. If developers that made Mortal Online and Darkfall can give players open worlds I see no reason why the big companies can't.
it's difficult to simulate open worlds. ever mmo has failed so far. EVE is the closest anyone has gotten, but both pve and pvp are fail in that game.but if anyone is to attempt something similar, they need to learn from CCP.
big open worlds are hard to regulate. it's difficult to decide which game rules to implement. without any rules, game will fail in terms of its gameplay; this is why developers are more focused on making a good, fun GAME as opposed to simulation.
MO and DF are two of the worst games to ever come from someone's imagination. creating an open world AND a good game is next to impossible.i doubt these two will exist as p2p in later 2010.
swtor will probably be a great game. one i will not play because i cant stand its childish graphics.... and for some reason it reeks of WoW to me, and does not feel like star wars at all. that being said, there is nothing MMO about it. it will be a PVE rpg game with the option of co-op. thats about it.
Because so far, open worlds have proven to be be less popular (and less profitable) than the more recent model of soloable content within a "game" structure.
MO and DF Devs were willing to cater to a niche market and have budgets to match. When a major house is going to put in $100M plus to make a game you'd better believe they're going to go for the largest subscriber base and that market doesn't favor virtual open world gameplay.
It appears we really are dinosaurs after all.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Bottom line is both of us have to stretch a quote from a dev to fit into what we think is the most likely truth. I just picked the one I found more logically sound.
Again i have not stretch anything at all.i have repeated word for word what a dev has said about his own game,not a mod from these forums or a hater orr a fanboy,it's a SWTOR dev saying this not me.
You can't have it both ways,he said it or he didn't,in this case he did say these word real clear "the entire game is solable" you can think in your head..nah he couldn't of meant that but the fact is he said it and until you can link me a quote from another dev saying that the game is NOT entirely solable, i guess i have to take the dev word,right?
They said they have raiding,erm they didn't say numbers or anything else,it could be 1-1000 for all you know or me. One thing i can be sure of is that a DEV has said this game is entirely solable,that is fact and can be backed up with links.
I don't have to prove anything,i have a devs quote which proves what i am saying, yours is speculation.
Don't worry though because as soon as that beta starts we will know everything we need to know about this game,the leaker's will be leaking all over the interwebs. Make no mistake bioware will not be treated any different than the other mmorpg dev teams.
If they are hiding anything then i would rather hear it from them than a leaker,you know it's that trust thing.
$15 a month to play a single-player game? No thanks...
I think as long as they can keep adding good story arcs and content to the game then it probably would be worth my $15 a month. Otherwise I am not so sure.
It just comes down to at the end of the day people just don't like open worlds. If they did then the two games you mentioned and the myrid of others would be flooded with players.
Seemless worlds themselfs bring alot of issues along with them. The biggest being how do you make a seemless world that feels alive and populated.
If you play Mortal Online and Darkfall you will notice there are large portions of the world where there just isn't much of anything there. The worlds themself do not feel alive or teeming with activity other then what players make. Then you have the whole issue of making the client seemless and then the backend has to be designed for a seemless world, ect.
Seemless worlds are a thing of the past and well they just didn't work once the MMO Genre went mainstream. Most MMO players like an experienced tailered to themselfs and thats just something you can not accoumplish with a seemless world. Atleast not with the technology we have at this time.
I like how people are taking the dev's quote that you can solo the game if you want to mean that its just a single player game. Heck I can solo WoW from 1-70 without ever grouping.. Does that make WoW a single player game? Heck I can log into Darkfall and do nothing but craft and kill mobs all by myself without ever grouping.. Does that make Darkfall a single player game? Heck I can log into CO, CoX, AoC, ect and solo from level 1 to the cap if I so choose to do so.
Just because you have an OPTION to do something one way doesn't mean that is the ONLY way to do that. I hate how people are taking something as simple as the option to solo to mean its the only way to do it. Just because the game doesn't force grouping does not make it any less of a MMO as what we currently have on the market.
Has anyone seen my "Jump To Conclusions" mat? Jeez, guys, don't just assume everything. I'm just going to wait until I see how it plays out.
The devs also said there would be raids. While it's possible the dev who said the entire game was soloable meant the level process is solo to max like WoW, I don't think it's possible to use the term raid and have it mean a single player. The "entire game is soloable" is probably out of context.
That might possibly be the case but, as we are becoming aware, Bioware uses MMORPG terms in ways that most MMORPGers would not understand. Here's hoping that there will be extremely large and varied dungeons that take ten or 25 people half an hour to four hours to complete - but since they also say 'SWTOR is a massive multiplayer game' and then say 'the entire game is soloable', who can be sure?
In your personal parlance you may define such games however you wish, however to gaming as a whole "MMO" covers WoW and many other games -- the term is fairly broad in meaning.
Hence why it needs better classification. How can someone call a game an MMO when its designed to be done solo, without seeing any other players?
The original MMOs, EverQuest, which were massive in design, and social, can keep the MMO name, games like SWTOR need a new name.
The option to Solo does not mean it's the only way people will play. I'll solo quite a bit while leveling because my biggest interest in OL games is PVP. There will be plenty of time for grouping when I get to that point. This actually looks like a game designed to be enjoyed on the journey to max, rather than at MAX. I for one am glad they are offering options for the soloer or the grouper. Those who want a private experience can have one, those who like insta groups will have them and those who play with a guild at all times will be able to do that as well. As long as the game is fun its win, win IMO.
They aren't giving OPTIONS, they are making it so that the solo path is the most benefitial one, and there is no real need to join up with anyone else.
So mr knowitall; you have played the game?
My perseption of the information available is that they are trying to change some traditional mmo classes to give all classes what we know as "pets" and they do it so you dont have to spam "LF TANK/HEALER" and healers must learn to behave in groups or they will be kicked like rest of the classes: And how do you think this is negative thing?
Don't be too sure. Designers that design games around a revenue model rather than what their customers find playable and enjoyable soon find that their subscribers, either one by one or in a torrent drop away until the game is in trouble. Remember the fate of the last SW MMO.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
LOL its funny because i think this very model for an mmo"R-P-G" is completelly the wrong way the industry should go. Just play a single player game if you dont want to socialize. MMORPG's are specifically made so that there are social events in the game and teamwork where you HAVE to socialize with others for rewards, the games encourage it and thats a good thing. (for example being in a guild and working out a raid).
Hmm .. MMORPGs are NOT made for social events. They are made so that people can kill things together. There is a huge difference.
If i just want to socialize, i will go to a chat room. No need to play a MMORPG.
I posted this yesterday in another thread, but it certainly applies here.
"You are a part of that frightening demographic that stands to destroy the entire genre for people like me. I was fascinated years ago with the prospect of what an mmo could actually be, and I've had the pleasure of falling in love with a few of them. Socializing is one of the unique features that sets this genre apart from others. Multiplayer games are perfectly suited for people who have little time to commit to a game and still desire some human interaction. Many of them are now offering character progression too. When I'm pressed for time, I always have a few on my machine just for that reason.
The mmo market is kinda reminding me of the current craze of reality TV that has infested Television programming. For a time I thought it was because that's what people wanted. Was I ever wrong. Turns out over the last three years, the amount of scripted programming on TV has been cut in half. This is from an interview with HBO's co-president Richard Plepler. "Broadcasters struggling with broken business models have embraced cheaper reality fare while they grapple with TV's new economic order".
HBO is doing the opposite and they currently have more pilots on order than they did 10 years ago.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if people keep paying for crap, crap is all we're going to get. We can set the bar higher. No need to settle."
Just because you, your friends, and many others are enjoying something today, that does not automatically disqualify the possibility that you might prefer something else. Take your heads out of the sand.
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You people trying to convince yourself otherwise after the only thing these devs have talked about is the single-playerness of this game are delusional.
What have you heard about this game?
"OHH we've focused 99% of the development on making this game 100% voice-overed, like any MMO player will not turn that sh*t off anyway, but hey, it's easier to talk into a mic than to make high-quality effective MMO systems!"
"OHH Ideally you should play the story to the end and then go play all the other classes stories" (basically saying the single-player story is the focus, not end-game.)
NO QUALITY PVP FOOTAGE / Videos or articles.
No Quality endgame PvE / Loot System videos or articles.
NO Crafting / Player-Based Economy Videos or articles.
To quote a poet:
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a F(#KING SINGLE-PLAYER DUCK!
I agree this game is nothing more than an online RPG. theres nothing really wrong with that either. I still will give it a try as long as it beats ffxiv release date.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Wait you said Champions online was the wow killer. So I am guessing you ditched your beloved CO and hoped on the TOR bandwagon.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Haha! Classic!
I find it funny that so many here will jump to all kinds of specualted conclusions from what a single person from a gaming magazine had to say. If you really want to find out the truths and untruths about SWTOR all you need to do is stop being lazy and do a little research on the official forums. There you will find all dev interviews about what will and won't be in the game up to them saying they won't talk about this or that until the development is further along.
Who knows - maybe Bioware manages to merge story and social gameplay into a better, somewhat new epxerience than anyone else b4?
What counts is fun!
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It just comes down to at the end of the day people just don't like open worlds. If they did then the two games you mentioned and the myrid of others would be flooded with players.
Seemless worlds themselfs bring alot of issues along with them. The biggest being how do you make a seemless world that feels alive and populated.
If you play Mortal Online and Darkfall you will notice there are large portions of the world where there just isn't much of anything there. The worlds themself do not feel alive or teeming with activity other then what players make. Then you have the whole issue of making the client seemless and then the backend has to be designed for a seemless world, ect.
Seemless worlds are a thing of the past and well they just didn't work once the MMO Genre went mainstream. Most MMO players like an experienced tailered to themselfs and thats just something you can not accoumplish with a seemless world. Atleast not with the technology we have at this time.
I like how people are taking the dev's quote that you can solo the game if you want to mean that its just a single player game. Heck I can solo WoW from 1-70 without ever grouping.. Does that make WoW a single player game? Heck I can log into Darkfall and do nothing but craft and kill mobs all by myself without ever grouping.. Does that make Darkfall a single player game? Heck I can log into CO, CoX, AoC, ect and solo from level 1 to the cap if I so choose to do so.
Just because you have an OPTION to do something one way doesn't mean that is the ONLY way to do that. I hate how people are taking something as simple as the option to solo to mean its the only way to do it. Just because the game doesn't force grouping does not make it any less of a MMO as what we currently have on the market.
They did not say you can solo the game did they? no he said "the ENTIRE game is sloable" he did not say you can solo to top level,did he.
What you are saying is not what the dev said,if you are going to quote at least quote word for word. If he would of said it like you have put it then, NP it's your typical mmorpg format,hell i been playing from 99,i know how it works.
He did not mention the word option, he made a point of using the word "entire" go look at what that word means,i am sure it will mean something like "the whole lot" meaning entire.
I rob a bank ,the police turn up and ask the girl behind the counter how much did he take she says " well sir he took the entire sack/draw" i would have no problem concluding that the robber took everything in that draw,the entire lot of cash.
You are following me,right? it's not hard to grasp is it.
Are you saying the dev is lying and does not know his own game?
So next time you quote a dev are we to assume that he is lying then,you can't have it both ways.
The fact remain is i am not making it up and it's come from one of your very own BioWare devs,i guess you know more about the game than they do ,right
They have said there will be end-game content. Like any maker of a game with lots of elements however, of course they'd like people to experience them. Why is there no PvP footage yet? Why is there no crafting footage yet? Why is there no end-game footage yet? Because they are not done with those elements. Bioware has ALWAYS only shown things they have in a pretty finished state. That way they don't promise anything that won't exist. It is the height of foolishness to expect them to show a bunch of stuff when closed Beta hasn't even started yet nor has a release date been announced. For all we know it won't come out until late 2011, and here you are demanding they have videos of every single detail of the game. Ridiculous, especially since they have explicitly said 2009 was the year for showcasing the story elements of the game (what is different about it) and that in 2010 they'll go over the more traditional elements.
And they have said the whole game is story-focused. That's why they've made a system so that groups can interact with NPCs and everyone gets input and can change the course of the story. It's a pretty dang innovative thing right there for group play, but obviously the people that are feeling like making a bunch of assumptions about the game when it doesn't even have a release date would rather dump a bunch of hate on it rather than wait until we actually have a decent amount of information to see what the traditional MMO elements will be like. Oh, and you guys also ignore the very explicit comments they make about how there is group content and how they want to encourage group play.