"Stagnating" doesn't mean the the population isn't growing.
I meant "stagnating" as in "numbers". The QEN also talks about that (using flawed and ultimately useless data, but at least it's consistently useless). The increasing amount of russian macrobots offsets the massive leadership and fc burnout most alliances have been suffering from.
I've actually considered returning to EVE to try something slightly outside the box (but by no means unheard of): Creating new industrial characters, infiltrating highsec corporations, winning their trust, and then screwing them over royally as soon as I have the access and the opportunity. I'd take ships, blueprints, modules, minerals — everything I could get my hands on — and transfer it to a "main" who primarily sits around training skills for whatever ship(s) I want to fly outside of my sinister shenanigans.
Or perhaps I could be interested in mercenary corp work, taking contracts from other corps, wardeccing shrinking violet highsec guilds, harassing them... I'm not in it for the griefing, mind you, but rather the challenge and excitement. Screwing people over within the boundaries and rules of the game is a pretty interesting concept.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I just found out that my sister's boyfriend (who recently graduated from VMI and is a pretty awesome fella) has been playing EVE for a while now, as a complete carebear, unfortunately.
Now's as good a time as any strap myself back in the saddle. Good thing I use a password manager to keep track of all my various MMO and Internet logins and passwords... I should still have all my old stuff, plus some really massive skill I set to train before I retired.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
"Stagnating" doesn't mean the the population isn't growing.
I meant "stagnating" as in "numbers". The QEN also talks about that (using flawed and ultimately useless data, but at least it's consistently useless).
The increasing amount of russian macrobots offsets the massive leadership and fc burnout most alliances have been suffering from.
I look forward to the glorious day when CCP nerfs 0.0 local. There will be a great disturbance in the force, as if ten thousand macros cried out in anguish and were silenced....
...unlike the huge shitstorm in slightly slavic English on the forums immediately afterwards!
When i was ready to try Eve the game was already 4 years old. At that time i didn't think it would be worth my time to start a game where everyone was miles ahead of me.
I will play Perpetuum, a game very similar to Eve, when it launches.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained. Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
I look forward to the glorious day when CCP nerfs 0.0 local. There will be a great disturbance in the force, as if ten thousand macros cried out in anguish and were silenced.... ...unlike the huge shitstorm in slightly slavic English on the forums immediately afterwards!
You'd be surprised how many macros there are in w-space nowadays. Removing local in 0.0 just means hordes of scanner spamming insta logging macro ratters.
Don't know if my input is needed, but I'll give my opinion of EVE anyways. Visuals, audio and interface are really well done, I feel. Those don't usually matter too much to me, the core idea of the game is more important, but I think with EVE those were important part in order to keep me playing for a while.
What I really liked about EVE is the optimization of ships for their purpose of use and I think this is a major thing for most EVE players. Choosing skills to train is also kind of entertaining, but I really didn't like that they are trained in real time, which turned out to be on of the reasons for leaving the game. Other thing that drew me to the game is the fact that I could potentially play with the market, I did that successfully quite a lot in other MMO's, but EVE has far better mechanics for that.
Most of the things I did in EVE were pretty damn boring to be honest. Probing was interesting for a while at least, but once you figure it out, it's not much of challenge. Combat in monotonic and automated, the fights are actually kind of decided already in the fitting bay. It's fun to plan ahead and choose the fittings and ship and so on, but battle itself is not that interesting. It was exciting to go to dangerous areas and see what I find, mostly nothing special and after couple months of training skills I was still nothing but a free kill. Mining I refused to do after realizing how little brain and how much time it requires
EVE is very, very reward driven game. You always are trying to get some more money, aim for bigger and better. That is not really entertaining, it may light up your ambition and dark desires though. I think the major things that drive people to the game are the community (roleplaying, corporations, cooperation, arguing, agreeing, forum), ship optimization (right fittings, right ships etc), the excitement factor (you don't know what waits behind the jumpgate; death, riches or nothing at all), fighting for your corporation, making profit with your economy skills and advancing your character (skills).
I think it was said somewhere that EVE is also an experiment of survival of the fittest theory and look into human psychology. I think it fits that purpose pretty well. Reminds me of a simulation of "how to live in capitalistic world". I already live in such, games are a way for me to escape that. This it the top reason, why i stopepd playing EVE.
When i was ready to try Eve the game was already 4 years old. At that time i didn't think it would be worth my time to start a game where everyone was miles ahead of me.
I will play Perpetuum, a game very similar to Eve, when it launches.
You were wrong, it would be worth your time to play EVE even if you decided to play now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I picked up eve a couple of times, only to stop playing it a few weeks later every time. Personally, I think I just prefer fantasy mmo's over sci-fi ones. Also, I always felt that eve was more about staring at the ui bars then the actual game world.
When i was ready to try Eve the game was already 4 years old. At that time i didn't think it would be worth my time to start a game where everyone was miles ahead of me.
I will play Perpetuum, a game very similar to Eve, when it launches.
Biggest myth about EVE Online. Veterans only have advantage in that they can do more things, and know more about the game. A new player can catch up, and can even be EFFECTIVE within a few months of starting. It is not a game where you're separated by level. Newbs do the same content as the veterans, and can be effective and helpful in many ways. It is never a wrong time to start EVE, and every second you put off is just less skill training you'll have.
Too slow gameplay everything takes vast amounts of something to get anywhere.
No avatar gives you little to feel connected to.
Very little interaction with planets, feels too much like being on a Pirate boat that never gets to have shore-leave.
Travelling time between "places where stuff happens" are too long.
Overall EVE just isn't entertaining to me, space itself is kinda bland and boring without scenery variations of a big enough degree to maintain visual interest, it can be beautiful but after the 1500th "pretty sunrise" you need an actual vista to go with it.
I've had a few subs. And I typically will do a trial account every couple months or so. The biggest issue is how quick you can lose everything. I fitted a Rifter for PvP and jumped in low sec for hours and hours looking to PK someone. After five or so hours I found someone, go jammed, and blown to bits before I knew what happened. So all that time lookin' for someone ended in about four seconds.
Another time I joined for exploration. I'd scan for 8+ hours for a site that hasn't been cleared yet. I'd find one then by the time I went back to get my fighter to clear the rats, someone would have cleared the site.
Another time I went for ninja salvaging. I spent hours using the directional scanner looking for wrecks. After many hours, I found a pile of wrecks. I warped into a POS and got one shotted.
My first experience with a subscription to the game I was into trading. Being new, I accepted a contract for delivering something several jumps away. I took my only ship, a Mammoth, and used all my ISK for the collateral. When I arrived, I noticed I was in 0.0 and got one shot my a POS. So I had to abandon the contract, lost all my ISK from the collateral, and ended back using the rookie ship. I'm aware it was a stupid, foolish move, but I had only been playing for a week or so.
All in all, it just seemed like it took waaaaaay to long to get a result from whether it being PvP, crafting, exploring, etc., only for the end result to last less than eight seconds.
________________________ Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."
Heh. Rhevin, your post reads like a laundry list of bad decisions — I'm not trying to insult you, but it's a comical read for experienced EVE players. I never had that many problems starting out, myself, but I was a lot more cautious when I first began playing. The courier traps in particular didn't fool me for a second. That reminds me of one of EVE's minor problems, though:
The courier and bounty systems are completely stupid, and CCP will likely never fix them. There are far more scams on the courier list than there are legitimate contracts. Some telltale signs are a cargo mass of 0.01m3 or perfectly even quantities (though perfectly even quantities can also be legitimate), too much pay for a short route with relatively low collateral (like 2.5m reward/5m collateral/15 jumps), ridiculously high collateral with a route that leads directly into 0.0, or hell, almost any route that leads into 0.0.
Veterans will say, "LOL, so what? Scamming's allowed, et cetera." Yes it is, and that's fine, but the courier system should cater to the needs of legitimate customers who need their crap moved, not serve primarily as a repository for PvP traps that only fool (and grief) new players.
As for the bounty system: Pirate gets huge bounty. Pirate switches to a skill clone with no implants. Friend of pirate pods him and collects the cash. Pirate and friend split cash. Bounty completed; the person with the bounty on his head just got paid... by the people who put the bounty on him.
The only ways to "trade" that actually make real ISK are blockade running and station trading. In blockade running, you move war supplies from highsec to hotspots in lowsec and nullsec, because that stuff is cheap in highsec, but sells for much more out in dangerous areas where it is really needed. Station trading is more boring than watching paint dry but involves buying low (while competing with 1,000 other station traders) and selling high (also while competing with 1,000 other station traders). This means you have to constantly check your computer changing your buy and sell orders by increments of .01 ISK. Right, it would be more fun not to play at all, but you can make a crapton of ISK doing it if you're autistic enough.
Finally, when EVE players say you can get into PvP right away, they actually mean you can be slightly useful cannon fodder in a frigate if you can find a corp that doesn't suck and you pay for your own frigates and fittings. Decent pirate, merc and nullsec corps won't even consider letting you join for MONTHS (perhaps years) — not even always because of skill, but also because they fear being infiltrated by a newly-made alt. However, if you contact and talk to these people directly for a while (on an unofficial EVE forum, perhaps), you may be able to gain their trust earlier.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Finally, when EVE players say you can get into PvP right away, they actually mean you can be slightly useful cannon fodder in a frigate if you can find a corp that doesn't suck and you pay for your own frigates and fittings.
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0. Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
Btw., on the contract scams. There should, imo, be more information available for courier contracts. E.g. the ability to remotely check whether one can dock, or whether the autopilot can reach the destination with set rules. Set those rules to highsec only by default and newbies won't get scammed as much unless they ignore warnings, at which point they're officially prey anyways.
The two biggest issues for me were the avatars and and controls. I don't like my avatar being a ship, and while normally I would consider such an issue superficial, combine it with the controls for travelling and combat, and it's something that just doesn't jive with me. That being said, I do think EVE is one of the best MMOs out there, hands down; it just simply isn't my cup of tea.
Same for me. but i'll add in travel time. the time it took to travel anywhere made it boring. I'm waiting for avatars and planets we can get out on and explore and i think i will forget and live with long travel times. if eve had explorable, habitable planets and avatars i would personally say it would be the best MMO ever made to date.
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0.
Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
I'm aware of EVE Uni. I spent time in that corporation myself ages ago — it's where I first learned some advanced concepts of station trading, among other things. I'm sure you're correct in that some corporations don't have stringent SP/time played requirements. I've been away from EVE for two years, so perhaps I'm misremembering. One thing I'm certain of: Sharp-minded, promising pilots who seem to learn quickly can get in almost anywhere they want, even into corporations that otherwise have SP requirements.
I still say claiming you can get into PvP "in a few months" is a bit of a stretch, though. It's somewhat accurate if the person wants to fly T2 frigates in PvP, because training CovOps-, Interceptor- or EWar-related skills to a respectable level that allows a decent fitting isn't terribly difficult. CovOps and Interceptors remain useful for a character's entire EVE career, so that's good... and yes, everyone should learn to fly a T1 frigate properly before moving on to something else.
If you're aiming for anything beyond PvP-centered T2 frigates and T1 cruisers/battlecruisers, however, you're going to be waiting a nice big ol' long time before you can not only fly what you want, but do so with a proper fit.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I've played EVE off and on for several years. Usually, every year I'll play for a couple of months and quit. Usually what happens is that I'll play for a bit and then realize that my progression, while I control the path I take, isn't really influenced by my actions. That no matter if I shoot off one missile or a million missiles, my skills won't improve one bit. It seemed to me that I'd be better off sitting in the hangar maxing out my mining skills that I already own than actually participating in the game. That until I either developed my combat skills more or my industrial skills more that gameplay would consist of grinding astroids or running through repetitive missions. That if I join a corp, that I'd be a parasite for months until I could actually be remotely useful either in an industrial or combat role.
I want to like the game, that's why I think I resub every year for a couple of months. I convince myself that it'll be different or that maybe I've just not really found a group of people to play with that I connect with. There are great aspects of the game that I'd like to participate in, but the bar of entry to those parts of the game seem discouragingly high. I also know that the bar of entry is nessesarily high, otherwise the quality of gameplay for veterans would likely suffer because they'd have a bunch of newbs running around going pew pew.
I would play if I could be shown that I could quickly contribute in a meaningful way to a corporation that had real goals in mind.
If your character is primarily a pilot (i.e., not an industrialist, trading character or corporate leader), your EVE regimen might roughly look like this:
Month 4-6: T2 Frigates/Cruisers, or T3 Cruisers, or Battleships, Get Needed Skills to 4 (5 in some cases)
Month 7-12: T2 Battlecruisers or Battleships, Intermediate & Advanced Skills, Advanced Game Concepts
Year 2: Continue improving skills (to 5 in some cases), diversify skillsets, possibly train for capital ship
I realize that's very rough. A lot of it could be switched around or changed entirely. But the point is, after just one year you can be flying a decent range of respectably powerful ships, or even have amazing skills focused on one specific ship, like a T3 cruiser (though I don't recommend this, as you will get bored). There are surely veterans who don't have a bunch of Vs on T3-related skills yet.
Now, I myself have stated in this very thread that you have to wait a long-ass time to get into decent ships with respectable fittings, and that remains true. Veterans who say "THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS TO DO IN THE FIRST FEW MONTHS!" when you have access to frigates and are in the process of working toward something better are being silly. All you can do is learn the game, survive, and make chump change. It takes money to do many things in EVE, and you won't have much for a while.
Only other people can make the experience tolerable. Make some friends. Join EVE University. Try getting into a nullsec corp early and learning from them. Try to get pirates to take you under their wing and teach you, use you as cannon fodder. Chat on various chat channels. KEEP TRYING. Keep looking for cool people you like until you find them. DO NOT GIVE UP AFTER TWO DAYS. Do not give up after the first, second, fifth or tenth corp you don't fit into.
If you try to solo your first six months of EVE, you will quit. I repeat, you will quit EVE if you try to solo for the first six months. This cannot be stated enough.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
If your character is primarily a pilot (i.e., not an industrialist, trading character or corporate leader), your EVE regimen might roughly look like this:
Month 4-6: T2 Frigates/Cruisers, or T3 Cruisers, or Battleships, Get Needed Skills to 4 (5 in some cases)
Month 7-12: T2 Battlecruisers or Battleships, Intermediate & Advanced Skills, Advanced Game Concepts
Year 2: Continue improving skills (to 5 in some cases), diversify skillsets, possibly train for capital ship
I realize that's very rough. A lot of it could be switched around or changed entirely. But the point is, after just one year you can be flying a decent range of respectably powerful ships, or even have amazing skills focused on one specific ship, like a T3 cruiser (though I don't recommend this, as you will get bored). There are surely veterans who don't have a bunch of Vs on T3-related skills yet.
Now, I myself have stated in this very thread that you have to wait a long-ass time to get into decent ships with respectable fittings, and that remains true. Veterans who say "THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS TO DO IN THE FIRST FEW MONTHS!" when you have access to frigates and are in the process of working toward something better are being silly. All you can do is learn the game, survive, and make chump change. It takes money to do many things in EVE, and you won't have much for a while.
Only other people can make the experience tolerable. Make some friends. Join EVE University. Try getting into a nullsec corp early and learning from them. Try to get pirates to take you under their wing and teach you, use you as cannon fodder. Chat on various chat channels. KEEP TRYING. Keep looking for cool people you like until you find them. DO NOT GIVE UP AFTER TWO DAYS. Do not give up after the first, second, fifth or tenth corp you don't fit into.
If you try to solo your first six months of EVE, you will quit. I repeat, you will quit EVE if you try to solo for the first six months. This cannot be stated enough.
Not sure what EVE you played. I was flying cruisers before my 21 day trial ran out, BC's in the first month and running level 3's which I salvaged and made definitely more than chump change.
Since the game was so new, there was so much to learn that it sort of boggled me so I don't think I needed much else to occupy my time back then.
By the 3-4 month mark I was flying poorly fitted BS's and move out to 0.0 an dby the 5th month I was in a Steath bomber and flying with a Black OPS group. Month 6 saw me POS busting in poor man's dreads (Armor tanked Ravens) and during this time I was part of seeing one alliance crash and burn and helped battle the strongest alliance in the game at the time (BOB).
There's so much a player can do in those first 6 months, if only they don't focus so much on what they can't do yet.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I enjoyed almost all of EVE till i got killed by a end users for no reason other than he felt like it. And i can even deal with that i'm not a noob when it comes to PVP but the death peanlty was outragus. i lost all my gear that i had in my cargo hold and everything that i had bean working on for 3 days straight all because some high lvl player thought killing the noob would be fun. That for me killed the game.
Not sure what EVE you played. I was flying cruisers before my 21 day trial ran out, BC's in the first month and running level 3's which I salvaged and made definitely more than chump change.
Since the game was so new, there was so much to learn that it sort of boggled me so I don't think I needed much else to occupy my time back then.
By the 3-4 month mark I was flying poorly fitted BS's and move out to 0.0 an dby the 5th month I was in a Steath bomber and flying with a Black OPS group. Month 6 saw me POS busting in poor man's dreads (Armor tanked Ravens) and during this time I was part of seeing one alliance crash and burn and helped battle the strongest alliance in the game at the time (BOB).
There's so much a player can do in those first 6 months, if only they don't focus so much on what they can't do yet.
Hello, Kyleran. You are one of most tireless defenders of EVE's faults at MMORPG.com. I've watched you post about the game for years.
This time, I'm going to make you earn your keep. Quite frankly, there are two sides to this argument, and the optimistic side is not the only valid one. I'll be playing the Devil's advocate. Let's discuss those first couple of months in which you trained your learning skills, acquired implants, trained for cruisers and battlecruisers, ran missions, and salvaged wrecks. Guess what? I did precisely the same thing Caldari pilot, worked on learning skills, got +4 learning implants across the board, worked my way from frigates up to a Drake, and had a nice little Catalyst for salvaging. After approximately three months, I was running L4 missions (slowly).
It took my Caldari pilot over three months to field a Drake with all affecting skills being L4 (L5 in some cases), and that was for one ship for the sole purpose of running missions. If you're PvPing during this time frame, you'll be doing it in crappy frigates or really crappy cruisers (with the crappiness decreasing slowly over time). They'll be crappy because a really good fit with nice stats for any ship virtually requires a metric crapton of L4 skills, and at least a few L5s.
The problem is simply that missions are only slightly less boring than mining. The only major difference is that instead of mining asteroids, you're mining NPCs and wrecks, and instead of warping to belts, you're warping through deadspace. That is mainly my opinion, mind you. Perhaps some people find mission running more stimulating than watching paint dry (as you can tell, I'm not one of them).
Meanwhile, you can't try CovOps, you can't try Interceptors, you can't do EWar, you can't mine or haul (without another account), you can't work on corp leadership... in fact, you pretty much can't work on anything but a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake and related fittings for three or four months.
I'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy EVE for the first few months (I didn't say six, I said "a few"). I'm saying you'll NEED a corporation, or at least a chat room. I'm saying you'll NEED to get into the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game, even if your actual stats don't allow you to do 90% of the stuff you might like to do yet. Some people need variety in GAMEPLAY right away, though.
I'm actually on your side here, even though our opinions differ; you just don't realize it. I've always admired EVE, even after I retired. Now I'm back, and I love it all over again. It's an amazing game. But getting started isn't all guns and roses.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Not sure what EVE you played. I was flying cruisers before my 21 day trial ran out, BC's in the first month and running level 3's which I salvaged and made definitely more than chump change.
Since the game was so new, there was so much to learn that it sort of boggled me so I don't think I needed much else to occupy my time back then.
By the 3-4 month mark I was flying poorly fitted BS's and move out to 0.0 an dby the 5th month I was in a Steath bomber and flying with a Black OPS group. Month 6 saw me POS busting in poor man's dreads (Armor tanked Ravens) and during this time I was part of seeing one alliance crash and burn and helped battle the strongest alliance in the game at the time (BOB).
There's so much a player can do in those first 6 months, if only they don't focus so much on what they can't do yet.
Hello, Kyleran. You are one of most tireless defenders of EVE's faults at MMORPG.com. I've watched you post about the game for years.
This time, I'm going to make you earn your keep. Quite frankly, there are two sides to this argument, and the optimistic side is not the only valid one. I'll be playing the Devil's advocate. Let's discuss those first couple of months in which you trained your learning skills, acquired implants, trained for cruisers and battlecruisers, ran missions, and salvaged wrecks. Guess what? I did precisely the same thing — Caldari pilot, worked on learning skills, got +4 learning implants across the board, worked my way from frigates up to a Drake, and had a nice little Catalyst for salvaging. After approximately three months, I was running L4 missions (slowly).
It took my Caldari pilot over three months to field a Drake with all affecting skills being L4 (L5 in some cases), and that was for one ship for the sole purpose of running missions. If you're PvPing during this time frame, you'll be doing it in crappy frigates or really crappy cruisers (with the crappiness decreasing slowly over time). They'll be crappy because a really good fit with nice stats for any ship virtually requires a metric crapton of L4 skills, and at least a few L5s.
The problem is simply that missions are only slightly less boring than mining. The only major difference is that instead of mining asteroids, you're mining NPCs and wrecks, and instead of warping to belts, you're warping through deadspace. That is mainly my opinion, mind you. Perhaps some people find mission running more stimulating than watching paint dry (as you can tell, I'm not one of them).
Meanwhile, you can't try CovOps, you can't try Interceptors, you can't do EWar, you can't mine or haul (without another account), you can't work on corp leadership... in fact, you pretty much can't work on anything but a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake and related fittings for three or four months.
I'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy EVE for the first few months (I didn't say six, I said "a few"). I'm saying you'll NEED a corporation, or at least a chat room. I'm saying you'll NEED to get into the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game, even if your actual stats don't allow you to do 90% of the stuff you might like to do yet. Some people need variety in GAMEPLAY right away, though.
I'm actually on your side here, even though our opinions differ; you just don't realize it. I've always admired EVE, even after I retired. Now I'm back, and I love it all over again. It's an amazing game. But getting started isn't all guns and roses.
alll this under the asumption that bigger is better
you can be in a stealth bomber in 19 days starting from day 1 (including the suport skills and the learning skills)
a few more days and you are in an assault ship.
you need to specialize
use the ship types like branches, not like linear path
and in the mean time you can fly deadly crusers and frigates, 2 years in eve and i still pick crusers and frigates and my ship of choice.
the key is to specialize. bigger is not always better in this case
Originally posted by Squal'Zell alll this under the asumption that bigger is better
Wrong. You're the one making assumptions here.
This is under the (correct) assumption that mission running is something many rookies will try in order to earn their first few millions, and in that case yes, bigger most definitely is better. Bigger guns break stronger tanks faster, and bigger tanks survive stronger guns for longer.
I myself fly only Amarr frigates and (occasionally) cruisers on my PvP character. I repeat, I only fly frigates and cruisers, and non-FOTM ones at that. But that's really not the best way to get started in EVE if you're using only one account.
Where is someone going to make ISK while they focus on PvP frigate-related skills, "Squal'Zell"? Other than relying on their corp (which is fine, but not feasible if they can't find a good fit corp right away)? Are they going to make money trading without any trade skills, no capital to speak of, and little experience? Are they going to make money from L1-L2 missions, focusing on those frigates? Are they going to make it mining in a Bantam? Will they earn it farming datacores with their nonexistent alts? Perhaps they should print some ISK from their T2 BPOs.
So basically you're saying that if someone joins a corporation right away, they can focus on frigates. For reals? Gosh, I didn't realize that. Thanks for enlightening me.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
alll this under the asumption that bigger is better
you can be in a stealth bomber in 19 days starting from day 1 (including the suport skills and the learning skills)
a few more days and you are in an assault ship.
you need to specialize
use the ship types like branches, not like linear path
and in the mean time you can fly deadly crusers and frigates, 2 years in eve and i still pick crusers and frigates and my ship of choice.
the key is to specialize. bigger is not always better in this case
To inject some realism to this: I challenge your claim that one can fly a stealth bomber in 19 days. Evemon shows 19 for the hull alone (give and take your char's stats) so you an fly one but you can't put a covert ops cloak to it or a bomb launcher or torpedoes. It's just a flying brick in space. Woopty-doo. A realistic time would be close to a month or more.
Even if one could, they sure won't have money to buy one because in essence they only have frigates to make money. -Unless you're incredibly lucky and get faction loot from a belt rat or something, you'd basically have to buy your ISK with real money and that just isn't an option for the great majority. I can't think of a person who could keep flying frigates and wait for a month to do something else. Destroyers, cruisers and so forth are a natural path of progression, and you can earn the ISK to fly the next by running missions.
And stealth bomber is useful in only a handful situations and only in nullsec.
Theory is far from reality here.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
alll this under the asumption that bigger is better
you can be in a stealth bomber in 19 days starting from day 1 (including the suport skills and the learning skills)
a few more days and you are in an assault ship.
you need to specialize
use the ship types like branches, not like linear path
and in the mean time you can fly deadly crusers and frigates, 2 years in eve and i still pick crusers and frigates and my ship of choice.
the key is to specialize. bigger is not always better in this case
To inject some realism to this: I challenge your claim that one can fly a stealth bomber in 19 days. Evemon shows 19 for the hull alone (give and take your char's stats) so you an fly one but you can't put a covert ops cloak to it or a bomb launcher or torpedoes. It's just a flying brick in space. Woopty-doo. A realistic time would be close to a month or more.
Even if one could, they sure won't have money to buy one because in essence they only have frigates to make money. -Unless you're incredibly lucky and get faction loot from a belt rat or something, you'd basically have to buy your ISK with real money and that just isn't an option for the great majority. I can't think of a person who could keep flying frigates and wait for a month to do something else. Destroyers, cruisers and so forth are a natural path of progression, and you can earn the ISK to fly the next by running missions.
And stealth bomber is useful in only a handful situations and only in nullsec.
Theory is far from reality here.
People use stealth bombers to run level 4 FW missions all the time and make really good ISK doing it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Comments
I meant "stagnating" as in "numbers". The QEN also talks about that (using flawed and ultimately useless data, but at least it's consistently useless).
The increasing amount of russian macrobots offsets the massive leadership and fc burnout most alliances have been suffering from.
I know, I heard about that.
I've actually considered returning to EVE to try something slightly outside the box (but by no means unheard of): Creating new industrial characters, infiltrating highsec corporations, winning their trust, and then screwing them over royally as soon as I have the access and the opportunity. I'd take ships, blueprints, modules, minerals — everything I could get my hands on — and transfer it to a "main" who primarily sits around training skills for whatever ship(s) I want to fly outside of my sinister shenanigans.
Or perhaps I could be interested in mercenary corp work, taking contracts from other corps, wardeccing shrinking violet highsec guilds, harassing them... I'm not in it for the griefing, mind you, but rather the challenge and excitement. Screwing people over within the boundaries and rules of the game is a pretty interesting concept.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Oh, who the Hell am I kidding?
I just found out that my sister's boyfriend (who recently graduated from VMI and is a pretty awesome fella) has been playing EVE for a while now, as a complete carebear, unfortunately.
Now's as good a time as any strap myself back in the saddle. Good thing I use a password manager to keep track of all my various MMO and Internet logins and passwords... I should still have all my old stuff, plus some really massive skill I set to train before I retired.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I look forward to the glorious day when CCP nerfs 0.0 local. There will be a great disturbance in the force, as if ten thousand macros cried out in anguish and were silenced....
...unlike the huge shitstorm in slightly slavic English on the forums immediately afterwards!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
@ OP:
When i was ready to try Eve the game was already 4 years old. At that time i didn't think it would be worth my time to start a game where everyone was miles ahead of me.
I will play Perpetuum, a game very similar to Eve, when it launches.
Currently playing browser games. Waiting for Albion Online, Citadel of Sorcery and Camelot Unchained.
Played: almost all MMO pre 2007
You'd be surprised how many macros there are in w-space nowadays.
Removing local in 0.0 just means hordes of scanner spamming insta logging macro ratters.
Don't know if my input is needed, but I'll give my opinion of EVE anyways. Visuals, audio and interface are really well done, I feel. Those don't usually matter too much to me, the core idea of the game is more important, but I think with EVE those were important part in order to keep me playing for a while.
What I really liked about EVE is the optimization of ships for their purpose of use and I think this is a major thing for most EVE players. Choosing skills to train is also kind of entertaining, but I really didn't like that they are trained in real time, which turned out to be on of the reasons for leaving the game. Other thing that drew me to the game is the fact that I could potentially play with the market, I did that successfully quite a lot in other MMO's, but EVE has far better mechanics for that.
Most of the things I did in EVE were pretty damn boring to be honest. Probing was interesting for a while at least, but once you figure it out, it's not much of challenge. Combat in monotonic and automated, the fights are actually kind of decided already in the fitting bay. It's fun to plan ahead and choose the fittings and ship and so on, but battle itself is not that interesting. It was exciting to go to dangerous areas and see what I find, mostly nothing special and after couple months of training skills I was still nothing but a free kill. Mining I refused to do after realizing how little brain and how much time it requires
EVE is very, very reward driven game. You always are trying to get some more money, aim for bigger and better. That is not really entertaining, it may light up your ambition and dark desires though. I think the major things that drive people to the game are the community (roleplaying, corporations, cooperation, arguing, agreeing, forum), ship optimization (right fittings, right ships etc), the excitement factor (you don't know what waits behind the jumpgate; death, riches or nothing at all), fighting for your corporation, making profit with your economy skills and advancing your character (skills).
I think it was said somewhere that EVE is also an experiment of survival of the fittest theory and look into human psychology. I think it fits that purpose pretty well. Reminds me of a simulation of "how to live in capitalistic world". I already live in such, games are a way for me to escape that. This it the top reason, why i stopepd playing EVE.
You were wrong, it would be worth your time to play EVE even if you decided to play now.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I picked up eve a couple of times, only to stop playing it a few weeks later every time. Personally, I think I just prefer fantasy mmo's over sci-fi ones. Also, I always felt that eve was more about staring at the ui bars then the actual game world.
Biggest myth about EVE Online. Veterans only have advantage in that they can do more things, and know more about the game. A new player can catch up, and can even be EFFECTIVE within a few months of starting. It is not a game where you're separated by level. Newbs do the same content as the veterans, and can be effective and helpful in many ways. It is never a wrong time to start EVE, and every second you put off is just less skill training you'll have.
Too slow gameplay everything takes vast amounts of something to get anywhere.
No avatar gives you little to feel connected to.
Very little interaction with planets, feels too much like being on a Pirate boat that never gets to have shore-leave.
Travelling time between "places where stuff happens" are too long.
Overall EVE just isn't entertaining to me, space itself is kinda bland and boring without scenery variations of a big enough degree to maintain visual interest, it can be beautiful but after the 1500th "pretty sunrise" you need an actual vista to go with it.
I've had a few subs. And I typically will do a trial account every couple months or so. The biggest issue is how quick you can lose everything. I fitted a Rifter for PvP and jumped in low sec for hours and hours looking to PK someone. After five or so hours I found someone, go jammed, and blown to bits before I knew what happened. So all that time lookin' for someone ended in about four seconds.
Another time I joined for exploration. I'd scan for 8+ hours for a site that hasn't been cleared yet. I'd find one then by the time I went back to get my fighter to clear the rats, someone would have cleared the site.
Another time I went for ninja salvaging. I spent hours using the directional scanner looking for wrecks. After many hours, I found a pile of wrecks. I warped into a POS and got one shotted.
My first experience with a subscription to the game I was into trading. Being new, I accepted a contract for delivering something several jumps away. I took my only ship, a Mammoth, and used all my ISK for the collateral. When I arrived, I noticed I was in 0.0 and got one shot my a POS. So I had to abandon the contract, lost all my ISK from the collateral, and ended back using the rookie ship. I'm aware it was a stupid, foolish move, but I had only been playing for a week or so.
All in all, it just seemed like it took waaaaaay to long to get a result from whether it being PvP, crafting, exploring, etc., only for the end result to last less than eight seconds.
________________________
Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."
Heh. Rhevin, your post reads like a laundry list of bad decisions — I'm not trying to insult you, but it's a comical read for experienced EVE players. I never had that many problems starting out, myself, but I was a lot more cautious when I first began playing. The courier traps in particular didn't fool me for a second. That reminds me of one of EVE's minor problems, though:
The courier and bounty systems are completely stupid, and CCP will likely never fix them. There are far more scams on the courier list than there are legitimate contracts. Some telltale signs are a cargo mass of 0.01m3 or perfectly even quantities (though perfectly even quantities can also be legitimate), too much pay for a short route with relatively low collateral (like 2.5m reward/5m collateral/15 jumps), ridiculously high collateral with a route that leads directly into 0.0, or hell, almost any route that leads into 0.0.
Veterans will say, "LOL, so what? Scamming's allowed, et cetera." Yes it is, and that's fine, but the courier system should cater to the needs of legitimate customers who need their crap moved, not serve primarily as a repository for PvP traps that only fool (and grief) new players.
As for the bounty system: Pirate gets huge bounty. Pirate switches to a skill clone with no implants. Friend of pirate pods him and collects the cash. Pirate and friend split cash. Bounty completed; the person with the bounty on his head just got paid... by the people who put the bounty on him.
The only ways to "trade" that actually make real ISK are blockade running and station trading. In blockade running, you move war supplies from highsec to hotspots in lowsec and nullsec, because that stuff is cheap in highsec, but sells for much more out in dangerous areas where it is really needed. Station trading is more boring than watching paint dry but involves buying low (while competing with 1,000 other station traders) and selling high (also while competing with 1,000 other station traders). This means you have to constantly check your computer changing your buy and sell orders by increments of .01 ISK. Right, it would be more fun not to play at all, but you can make a crapton of ISK doing it if you're autistic enough.
Finally, when EVE players say you can get into PvP right away, they actually mean you can be slightly useful cannon fodder in a frigate if you can find a corp that doesn't suck and you pay for your own frigates and fittings. Decent pirate, merc and nullsec corps won't even consider letting you join for MONTHS (perhaps years) — not even always because of skill, but also because they fear being infiltrated by a newly-made alt. However, if you contact and talk to these people directly for a while (on an unofficial EVE forum, perhaps), you may be able to gain their trust earlier.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0.
Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
Btw., on the contract scams. There should, imo, be more information available for courier contracts. E.g. the ability to remotely check whether one can dock, or whether the autopilot can reach the destination with set rules. Set those rules to highsec only by default and newbies won't get scammed as much unless they ignore warnings, at which point they're officially prey anyways.
I'm aware of EVE Uni. I spent time in that corporation myself ages ago — it's where I first learned some advanced concepts of station trading, among other things. I'm sure you're correct in that some corporations don't have stringent SP/time played requirements. I've been away from EVE for two years, so perhaps I'm misremembering. One thing I'm certain of: Sharp-minded, promising pilots who seem to learn quickly can get in almost anywhere they want, even into corporations that otherwise have SP requirements.
I still say claiming you can get into PvP "in a few months" is a bit of a stretch, though. It's somewhat accurate if the person wants to fly T2 frigates in PvP, because training CovOps-, Interceptor- or EWar-related skills to a respectable level that allows a decent fitting isn't terribly difficult. CovOps and Interceptors remain useful for a character's entire EVE career, so that's good... and yes, everyone should learn to fly a T1 frigate properly before moving on to something else.
If you're aiming for anything beyond PvP-centered T2 frigates and T1 cruisers/battlecruisers, however, you're going to be waiting a nice big ol' long time before you can not only fly what you want, but do so with a proper fit.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I've played EVE off and on for several years. Usually, every year I'll play for a couple of months and quit. Usually what happens is that I'll play for a bit and then realize that my progression, while I control the path I take, isn't really influenced by my actions. That no matter if I shoot off one missile or a million missiles, my skills won't improve one bit. It seemed to me that I'd be better off sitting in the hangar maxing out my mining skills that I already own than actually participating in the game. That until I either developed my combat skills more or my industrial skills more that gameplay would consist of grinding astroids or running through repetitive missions. That if I join a corp, that I'd be a parasite for months until I could actually be remotely useful either in an industrial or combat role.
I want to like the game, that's why I think I resub every year for a couple of months. I convince myself that it'll be different or that maybe I've just not really found a group of people to play with that I connect with. There are great aspects of the game that I'd like to participate in, but the bar of entry to those parts of the game seem discouragingly high. I also know that the bar of entry is nessesarily high, otherwise the quality of gameplay for veterans would likely suffer because they'd have a bunch of newbs running around going pew pew.
I would play if I could be shown that I could quickly contribute in a meaningful way to a corporation that had real goals in mind.
If your character is primarily a pilot (i.e., not an industrialist, trading character or corporate leader), your EVE regimen might roughly look like this:
Month 1: Gameplay Basics, Learning Skills & Implants, Frigate Competency, Basic Skills
Month 2-3: Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Finish L4 Learning Skills, Basic & Intermediate Skills
Month 4-6: T2 Frigates/Cruisers, or T3 Cruisers, or Battleships, Get Needed Skills to 4 (5 in some cases)
Month 7-12: T2 Battlecruisers or Battleships, Intermediate & Advanced Skills, Advanced Game Concepts
Year 2: Continue improving skills (to 5 in some cases), diversify skillsets, possibly train for capital ship
I realize that's very rough. A lot of it could be switched around or changed entirely. But the point is, after just one year you can be flying a decent range of respectably powerful ships, or even have amazing skills focused on one specific ship, like a T3 cruiser (though I don't recommend this, as you will get bored). There are surely veterans who don't have a bunch of Vs on T3-related skills yet.
Now, I myself have stated in this very thread that you have to wait a long-ass time to get into decent ships with respectable fittings, and that remains true. Veterans who say "THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS TO DO IN THE FIRST FEW MONTHS!" when you have access to frigates and are in the process of working toward something better are being silly. All you can do is learn the game, survive, and make chump change. It takes money to do many things in EVE, and you won't have much for a while.
Only other people can make the experience tolerable. Make some friends. Join EVE University. Try getting into a nullsec corp early and learning from them. Try to get pirates to take you under their wing and teach you, use you as cannon fodder. Chat on various chat channels. KEEP TRYING. Keep looking for cool people you like until you find them. DO NOT GIVE UP AFTER TWO DAYS. Do not give up after the first, second, fifth or tenth corp you don't fit into.
If you try to solo your first six months of EVE, you will quit. I repeat, you will quit EVE if you try to solo for the first six months. This cannot be stated enough.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Not sure what EVE you played. I was flying cruisers before my 21 day trial ran out, BC's in the first month and running level 3's which I salvaged and made definitely more than chump change.
Since the game was so new, there was so much to learn that it sort of boggled me so I don't think I needed much else to occupy my time back then.
By the 3-4 month mark I was flying poorly fitted BS's and move out to 0.0 an dby the 5th month I was in a Steath bomber and flying with a Black OPS group. Month 6 saw me POS busting in poor man's dreads (Armor tanked Ravens) and during this time I was part of seeing one alliance crash and burn and helped battle the strongest alliance in the game at the time (BOB).
There's so much a player can do in those first 6 months, if only they don't focus so much on what they can't do yet.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I enjoyed almost all of EVE till i got killed by a end users for no reason other than he felt like it. And i can even deal with that i'm not a noob when it comes to PVP but the death peanlty was outragus. i lost all my gear that i had in my cargo hold and everything that i had bean working on for 3 days straight all because some high lvl player thought killing the noob would be fun. That for me killed the game.
Hello, Kyleran. You are one of most tireless defenders of EVE's faults at MMORPG.com. I've watched you post about the game for years.
This time, I'm going to make you earn your keep. Quite frankly, there are two sides to this argument, and the optimistic side is not the only valid one. I'll be playing the Devil's advocate. Let's discuss those first couple of months in which you trained your learning skills, acquired implants, trained for cruisers and battlecruisers, ran missions, and salvaged wrecks. Guess what? I did precisely the same thing Caldari pilot, worked on learning skills, got +4 learning implants across the board, worked my way from frigates up to a Drake, and had a nice little Catalyst for salvaging. After approximately three months, I was running L4 missions (slowly).
It took my Caldari pilot over three months to field a Drake with all affecting skills being L4 (L5 in some cases), and that was for one ship for the sole purpose of running missions. If you're PvPing during this time frame, you'll be doing it in crappy frigates or really crappy cruisers (with the crappiness decreasing slowly over time). They'll be crappy because a really good fit with nice stats for any ship virtually requires a metric crapton of L4 skills, and at least a few L5s.
The problem is simply that missions are only slightly less boring than mining. The only major difference is that instead of mining asteroids, you're mining NPCs and wrecks, and instead of warping to belts, you're warping through deadspace. That is mainly my opinion, mind you. Perhaps some people find mission running more stimulating than watching paint dry (as you can tell, I'm not one of them).
Meanwhile, you can't try CovOps, you can't try Interceptors, you can't do EWar, you can't mine or haul (without another account), you can't work on corp leadership... in fact, you pretty much can't work on anything but a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake and related fittings for three or four months.
I'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy EVE for the first few months (I didn't say six, I said "a few"). I'm saying you'll NEED a corporation, or at least a chat room. I'm saying you'll NEED to get into the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game, even if your actual stats don't allow you to do 90% of the stuff you might like to do yet. Some people need variety in GAMEPLAY right away, though.
I'm actually on your side here, even though our opinions differ; you just don't realize it. I've always admired EVE, even after I retired. Now I'm back, and I love it all over again. It's an amazing game. But getting started isn't all guns and roses.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
alll this under the asumption that bigger is better
you can be in a stealth bomber in 19 days starting from day 1 (including the suport skills and the learning skills)
a few more days and you are in an assault ship.
you need to specialize
use the ship types like branches, not like linear path
and in the mean time you can fly deadly crusers and frigates, 2 years in eve and i still pick crusers and frigates and my ship of choice.
the key is to specialize. bigger is not always better in this case
Wrong. You're the one making assumptions here.
This is under the (correct) assumption that mission running is something many rookies will try in order to earn their first few millions, and in that case yes, bigger most definitely is better. Bigger guns break stronger tanks faster, and bigger tanks survive stronger guns for longer.
I myself fly only Amarr frigates and (occasionally) cruisers on my PvP character. I repeat, I only fly frigates and cruisers, and non-FOTM ones at that. But that's really not the best way to get started in EVE if you're using only one account.
Where is someone going to make ISK while they focus on PvP frigate-related skills, "Squal'Zell"? Other than relying on their corp (which is fine, but not feasible if they can't find a good fit corp right away)? Are they going to make money trading without any trade skills, no capital to speak of, and little experience? Are they going to make money from L1-L2 missions, focusing on those frigates? Are they going to make it mining in a Bantam? Will they earn it farming datacores with their nonexistent alts? Perhaps they should print some ISK from their T2 BPOs.
So basically you're saying that if someone joins a corporation right away, they can focus on frigates. For reals? Gosh, I didn't realize that. Thanks for enlightening me.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
To inject some realism to this: I challenge your claim that one can fly a stealth bomber in 19 days. Evemon shows 19 for the hull alone (give and take your char's stats) so you an fly one but you can't put a covert ops cloak to it or a bomb launcher or torpedoes. It's just a flying brick in space. Woopty-doo. A realistic time would be close to a month or more.
Even if one could, they sure won't have money to buy one because in essence they only have frigates to make money. -Unless you're incredibly lucky and get faction loot from a belt rat or something, you'd basically have to buy your ISK with real money and that just isn't an option for the great majority. I can't think of a person who could keep flying frigates and wait for a month to do something else. Destroyers, cruisers and so forth are a natural path of progression, and you can earn the ISK to fly the next by running missions.
And stealth bomber is useful in only a handful situations and only in nullsec.
Theory is far from reality here.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
People use stealth bombers to run level 4 FW missions all the time and make really good ISK doing it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville