Not sure what EVE you played. I was flying cruisers before my 21 day trial ran out, BC's in the first month and running level 3's which I salvaged and made definitely more than chump change.
Since the game was so new, there was so much to learn that it sort of boggled me so I don't think I needed much else to occupy my time back then.
By the 3-4 month mark I was flying poorly fitted BS's and move out to 0.0 an dby the 5th month I was in a Steath bomber and flying with a Black OPS group. Month 6 saw me POS busting in poor man's dreads (Armor tanked Ravens) and during this time I was part of seeing one alliance crash and burn and helped battle the strongest alliance in the game at the time (BOB).
There's so much a player can do in those first 6 months, if only they don't focus so much on what they can't do yet.
Hello, Kyleran. You are one of most tireless defenders of EVE's faults at MMORPG.com. I've watched you post about the game for years.
This time, I'm going to make you earn your keep. Quite frankly, there are two sides to this argument, and the optimistic side is not the only valid one. I'll be playing the Devil's advocate. Let's discuss those first couple of months in which you trained your learning skills, acquired implants, trained for cruisers and battlecruisers, ran missions, and salvaged wrecks. Guess what? I did precisely the same thing — Caldari pilot, worked on learning skills, got +4 learning implants across the board, worked my way from frigates up to a Drake, and had a nice little Catalyst for salvaging. After approximately three months, I was running L4 missions (slowly).
It took my Caldari pilot over three months to field a Drake with all affecting skills being L4 (L5 in some cases), and that was for one ship for the sole purpose of running missions. If you're PvPing during this time frame, you'll be doing it in crappy frigates or really crappy cruisers (with the crappiness decreasing slowly over time). They'll be crappy because a really good fit with nice stats for any ship virtually requires a metric crapton of L4 skills, and at least a few L5s.
The problem is simply that missions are only slightly less boring than mining. The only major difference is that instead of mining asteroids, you're mining NPCs and wrecks, and instead of warping to belts, you're warping through deadspace. That is mainly my opinion, mind you. Perhaps some people find mission running more stimulating than watching paint dry (as you can tell, I'm not one of them).
Meanwhile, you can't try CovOps, you can't try Interceptors, you can't do EWar, you can't mine or haul (without another account), you can't work on corp leadership... in fact, you pretty much can't work on anything but a Kestrel, Caracal and Drake and related fittings for three or four months.
I'm not saying it's impossible to enjoy EVE for the first few months (I didn't say six, I said "a few"). I'm saying you'll NEED a corporation, or at least a chat room. I'm saying you'll NEED to get into the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game, even if your actual stats don't allow you to do 90% of the stuff you might like to do yet. Some people need variety in GAMEPLAY right away, though.
I'm actually on your side here, even though our opinions differ; you just don't realize it. I've always admired EVE, even after I retired. Now I'm back, and I love it all over again. It's an amazing game. But getting started isn't all guns and roses.
OK, first off, let me start by saying that I didn't start playing EVE to PVP. I did want to do some, but I was more interested in becoming part of the EVE universe and wanted to make sure I would succeed in every aspect, therefore I started off with the mindset of making myself financially secure.
So the path you laid out, Kessie, Caracal, Drake was perfect for me, took me right up my intended mission running path and I didn't bother with any PVP (other than those few unfortuante mission runs into low sec) during that time.
As for having a well fit ship, I didn't much care about that, I fought in what I could fly, and yes, I got creamed a few times. (Lost my first Drake in my first Worlds Collide mission)
But after I was bringing in some decent cash, I was able to turn my focus to pvp and I trained up Ravens and Stealth Bombers. By month 4 I was ratting drones in the northlands in my Raven and going out in covert OPs runs in my Manticore during month 5 (which back then used Cruise missiles, which, my Raven also utilized. When PVP called for larger ships I flew Drakes and Ravens, who while oft maligned serve as decent pvp platforms as long as you're not obsessed with min/maxxing.
I won't disagree, I had fun because I was in a good corp, and I was indeed in the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game even if I couldn't fly Capital ships.
3 years and 3 accounts later, and I still can't fly Capital ships, I've been busy focusing elsewhere.
And the heck of it is, despite the fact that I can fly dozens of different ship types, I normally only fight in less than 6, which I certainly had mastered a long time ago.
Don't get me wrong, there's times when I tire of EVE and I go off for a few months and swing a sword in the latest WOW clone, but I always come back for another run at EVE, usually doing a different career or path each time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Played from 2005 to 2008, quit then came back in june this year. Except for a few things like wormholes and revamped exploration, not too much have changed.
PVE => very dull and repetitive, Im talking about missioning. Never tried doing combat sites in wormholes, but i suspect its more or less the same, except with harder hitting npc.
Industry/Manufacturing : unless you were the lucky winner of a valuable T2 BPO, ( not of them are ),, its more a chore than anything else. You can not compete in terms of price with T2 BPO owners, especially with ships
PVP : no skills involved most of the times, PVP in Eve is mostly a gankfest. if you think that killing a fly with a sledgehammer requires immense skills, you re gonna love Eve pvp. Most of eve pvp consists of camping a 0.0 choke point from high/low sec to 0.0 for hours or getting in a fleet which will roam 0.0 empty space for hours and where you will eventually kill 1 poor soul with 35 of your corpmates. Needless to say that if you like a challenge, you re in for a bad surprise.
Doing solo pvp in 0.0, unless you re in an interceptor or with an alt scouting for you, will also result most of the times in a swift death since like I said above, you will be ganked and outnumbered by outrageous numbers.
To fund your pvp habits, you will need a steady income since ships tends to blow up pretty fast especially in 0.0. so back to square 1 with killing npc /missionning , which you will find immensely dull very quickly.
Also unlike in wormholes, 0.0 space have local chat, that means that once the guys who live/npc in a system see someone who is not blue ( faction standing ) entering in, they will either run away or come back with 1 bazillion of his corpmates to get you. There is no surprise effect, generally the guys who bring the biggest numbers or who have a lot of SP wins.
I felt no physical attachment to the game. Yeah i had an avatar picture, but i could not make my ship my own. i felt like my main avatar was disposible. hard to explaine, i love what eve is i love the idea behind it, but when i play it i never feel like part of the world.
Played for years and was in the beta. Quit because CCP was caught red handed cheating and lying and covering up about it. Not only did they not significantly punish their guilty developer to any significant degree, they banned the whistleblower.
This was followed up by more incidents of cheating that were not widely publicized or publically denied. However ingame I knew people that were innocent (from direct ingame and RL experience and evidence) that CCP then smeared and banned. That's when I knew their so-called "Internal Affairs" was a crock and was just to give them a way to deny any wrongdoing. I'm sure CCP and the fanbois would love to pretend these incidents never happened or are irrelevant, but they did and are extremely relevant to those that were the ones being cheated against by the developers. Who knows how many more things are being covered up? This is before even going into things like the macro mining and sweatshop mining.
I refuse to pay money to a corrupt company that lies and cheats against its customer base. CCP lost our corp as customers from the rampant cheating and I make sure to steer my friends clear of any CCP products. Why pay hard earned money to be abused by developers chuckling in their little 0.0 alliances? They shouldn't be an "old boys club" giving favors to their friends, something which has been going on in some fashion ever since beta. It is clear and sustained unprofessionalism and unethical behavior, and the proven incidents only show that it is ingrained in their corporate culture.
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0.
Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
I'd like to revisit this post for just a moment.
EVE University or no EVE University, 95% of the nullsec and/or general PvP corps I see recruiting anywhere (threads on Scrapheap Challenge and the official forums, in-game channels, or by word of mouth take your pick) have a 10-15 million skill point minimum requirement, and far more in some cases. It's almost as bad as World of Warcraft's "gear score" garbage, and I believe SP requirements are even higher and more common now than when I retired from EVE in 2008.
This isn't a complaint. In 2007, I organized and co-founded a corporation that still exists today and is part of an alliance. They're mostly carebears, which is why I left them to pursue a life of piracy, but I made it happen. I have no difficulty gaining entry into PvP corporations myself. I know how to play the game, I enjoy throwing away ISKies in the name of fun, I'm sociable and well-spoken, and I'm charismatic on voice chat servers. Also, I still have plenty of old favors to call in and contacts to chat up.
Now, if I can hardly find any nullsec corps without SP requirements, how are new players going to find them? Have you taken a gander at EVE University lately? It can literally take weeks just to be properly accepted and integrated into the E Uni of today. It's pretty damned crowded, and I get the impression it's turning into a real cluster****.
Once again, let me stress that I'm not saying new players can't get started in EVE. I'm simply saying it's not all guns and roses. It can be downright annoying.
That can cause players to try EVE and not stay, which is what this thread's about. It's not CCP's fault, either it's elitist players' fault, in my opinion.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Also, when people say that new players can't "catch up," they're at least partially correct, even though they're usually talking about Skill Points. Anyone can purchase a veteran pilot for ISK, certainly, but opportunities to "get in on the ground floor" are more-or-less gone now.
The T2 BPO lottery, for instance, was over and done with years ago. They're primarily in the hands of large alliances now with some exceptions, I'm sure, but since T2 BPOs basically print ISK for their owners, they're rarely available for sale, and incredibly expensive when they are.
Nullsec is already fully settled, and the alliances holding territory there become more firmly entrenched with the passing of each year. Certainly nullsec has wars and shake-ups, but even when a large alliance falls (which is rare), generally its remnants pick up the pieces, reorganize themselves and continue to occupy space in nullsec.
What this means is that newer, grassroots corporations and alliances stand little chance of ever gaining their own glory in nullsec. Someone put a name to the Band of Brothers alliance all those years ago, and that name became synonymous with nullsec domination. That can't happen anymore, because due to the way the game works, new players who wish to pursue a life in 0.0 are simply shuffled into pre-existing nullsec alliances.
Speaking of which, and to support my point, BoB still exists. It's just not called BoB anymore. And they still hold approximately the same space they have for the better part of a decade.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0.
Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
I'd like to revisit this post for just a moment.
EVE University or no EVE University, 95% of the nullsec and/or general PvP corps I see recruiting anywhere (threads on Scrapheap Challenge and the official forums, in-game channels, or by word of mouth — take your pick) have a 10-15 million skill point minimum requirement, and far more in some cases. It's almost as bad as World of Warcraft's "gear score" garbage, and I believe SP requirements are even higher and more common now than when I retired from EVE in 2008.
Really?
Most I've seen have about a 5-6mil SP requirement. I'm sure there are quite a few with even less.
That's not that bad, considering I have an alt I'm training right now who isn't even 30 days old yet and has 2.3mil SP.
Before the 51 days are up, he is going to be able to fly a fully T2 Fit Viator + extra nav skills and fly an Obliesk.
Personally, I think my corp's recruitment policy is if you're a mature person and can fly at least a tackling interceptor, then it doesn't matter what you're SP is.
I think I've seen alot of other corps out there who only require the player to fly and fit a BC. Because a bird in the hand if worth 2 in the bush. You can easily fly and fit a BC in less time than the 21 day trial.
Err, I personally know quite a few corps that let newbies in AND pay for their ships. In 0.0.
Eve University opens a lot of doors for new pilots in that regard. Go to Eve Uni, then later try to get into some newbie friendly 0.0 corp. It usually works quite well.
I'd like to revisit this post for just a moment.
EVE University or no EVE University, 95% of the nullsec and/or general PvP corps I see recruiting anywhere (threads on Scrapheap Challenge and the official forums, in-game channels, or by word of mouth — take your pick) have a 10-15 million skill point minimum requirement, and far more in some cases. It's almost as bad as World of Warcraft's "gear score" garbage, and I believe SP requirements are even higher and more common now than when I retired from EVE in 2008.
Really?
Most I've seen have about a 5-6mil SP requirement. I'm sure there are quite a few with even less.
That's not that bad, considering I have an alt I'm training right now who isn't even 30 days old yet and has 2.3mil SP.
Before the 51 days are up, he is going to be able to fly a fully T2 Fit Viator + extra nav skills and fly an Obliesk.
Personally, I think my corp's recruitment policy is if you're a mature person and can fly at least a tackling interceptor, then it doesn't matter what you're SP is.
I think I've seen alot of other corps out there who only require the player to fly and fit a BC. Because a bird in the hand if worth 2 in the bush. You can easily fly and fit a BC in less time than the 21 day trial.
hell, my corp has no SP limit and we do live in 0.0 and have sovreignty in a couple of systems (we do have an age condition 18+) and i know alot of corps that have no SP limit and teach you the ropes and how to build your character without making the noob mistakes when training skills. we also teach them how to live in 0.0 and survive.
our corp believes that eve is 0.0 and should be played as of day 1. we have 3 month old players making enough isk to pay for monthly plexes.
so dont give me that BS that it takes years to compete with the top dogs.
so dont give me that BS that it takes years to compete with the top dogs.
You don't compete with the top dogs, and you never will, unless you join them. I'm not sure what you think "top dog" means in this game if you believe that, because "a couple of systems" isn't much. My point is that an alliance named by you will never occupy a large power bloc; only pre-existing alliances or reformations of those alliances under a different banner will be able to do so. That's not an insult it's a fact of life for you, me, and indeed all "newer" EVE players.
It's no one's fault, really. Nullsec is essentially a new world that was colonized long ago. Those old veterans continue playing EVE; those who do quit are replaced by new blood from within their own alliances. This ultimately means that grassroots dreams of nullsec domination are destined to fail, barring a miracle.
Switching gears for a moment, it's easy to say, "There are plenty of nullsec corps/alliances without skill point requirements." I already knew that, though your definition of "plenty" may vary from my own, and these often tend to be the smaller corporations/alliances. From my point of view, they are very much a minority compared to those that either have SP requirements, or have special entry restrictions (Goonfleet requires Something Awful membership, Test Alliance Please Ignore requires a three-month minimum Reddit membership, etc.).
Yes, anyone with a brain can get into nullsec within a month of starting EVE, but that's beside the point I'm trying to make here.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Also, when people say that new players can't "catch up," they're at least partially correct, even though they're usually talking about Skill Points. Anyone can purchase a veteran pilot for ISK, certainly, but opportunities to "get in on the ground floor" are more-or-less gone now.
The T2 BPO lottery, for instance, was over and done with years ago. They're primarily in the hands of large alliances now — with some exceptions, I'm sure, but since T2 BPOs basically print ISK for their owners, they're rarely available for sale, and incredibly expensive when they are.
Nullsec is already fully settled, and the alliances holding territory there become more firmly entrenched with the passing of each year. Certainly nullsec has wars and shake-ups, but even when a large alliance falls (which is rare), generally its remnants pick up the pieces, reorganize themselves and continue to occupy space in nullsec.
What this means is that newer, grassroots corporations and alliances stand little chance of ever gaining their own glory in nullsec. Someone put a name to the Band of Brothers alliance all those years ago, and that name became synonymous with nullsec domination. That can't happen anymore, because due to the way the game works, new players who wish to pursue a life in 0.0 are simply shuffled into pre-existing nullsec alliances.
Speaking of which, and to support my point, BoB still exists. It's just not called BoB anymore. And they still hold approximately the same space they have for the better part of a decade.
I am a member of The Initiative. INIT. is a relatively new alliance - about 18 months or so IIRC (someone correct me?). We have space, we're getting more space right now. It happens all the time, in fact.
Where you err is that you think new corps and alliances should be entitled to own a region right away. Doesn't happen. You start out as a renter. If you do well, you ascend to pet. Then to meatshield. Then to ally. Then finally to independent entity. But none of these steps are granted for love or time played - they have to be earned ingame with commitment and skill (which is why I lol at people who whine that "EVE is a game that rewards not logging in")
Every single system in sov space has changed hands at least once, most multiple times. If you want space you have to to capable of earning it, taking it and finally defending it - just like the present occupants. Spaceholders who become decadent invariably lose their space in short order (as is happening right now in Catch/Tenerifis).
As for T2 BPOs... people all get hung up on these. They're nice to have, sure I guess, but 3 months after Invention was introduced, the real profit moved to moon owners and there it has stayed ever since. And a single rather mediocre ratter can easily generate as much ISK as a technetium moon - a good ratter can crank more ISK in a week from Sanctums/Havens than a tech moon can generate in a month.
The true wealth of 0.0 alliances is the number of active, experienced players who are prepared to work together towards a common goal.
This is a very simple question and would like some serious responses from the gaming community at large - but most from non-EVE players.
What is it, or was it, about the game of EVE that keeps you from playing the game?
I tried Eve and enjoyed it well enough but there are a few things that kept me from subbing and some are things they couldn't possibly have done anything about.
1)I'm not prone to trying "new" ip's very often, when I play a video game I like to place myself as firmly into the role of my character as possible and often with a new lore that requires learning about the lore even though it may be something that doesn't interest me as much as playing the game would. add to that there was no "pull" to learn more about the lore and that was one nail in the coffin.
2)EVE is known as a sandbox and while I love sandbox gameplay I also get the feeling that pve is purely an afterthought with this game which is another problem I don't pvp that much and only like to play with others when I feel like it which again is less often than more so I get the feeling my playtime in EVE would be minimal since so much of the game seems to revolve around your corp and such.
From a technical standpoint the game felt and played great and it seemed that if I had just a bit more of an analtytical mind frame I may have loved to play this game for hours on end much like I have done with games like SWG,WOW etc. but I actually enjoy the simplicity of many of the current crops of games and mmo's specifically.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I have played on and off since 2005. I always love jumping in the first few months but then it feels like a second job. PI was what killed me off this last time. Logging in every 5 hours and setting extractors was just silly and doing it for any lomger time periods didnt seem to be worth it in materials produced.
You also can not seem to just jump in and have fun. You jump in, find a roaming gang, grab a ship and outfit it, fly all over and hope to find some PVP. 0.0 blob warfare is no fun and the lag introduced in dominion kills off what little fun it had. Then there is the part where you can work hard for three years and have some scumbag rip apart everything you did simply because he is a teabagger. BOB, GOON's and UK all found out how one simple a$$hat can ruin years of hard work. You can not even mine in empire anymore safely. It is almost like a galactic crime simulator.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I tried the 14 day trial and quit on day 2. I did not like the way you "Fly" your ship by clicking on the screen in the direction you want to go. I did not like the UI at all. The game is just to complex starting out to keep new players playing. Did not care for the real time needed for ranking up the skills. The way things work new players will never catch up to the long time players. The game sounds fun on paper, but when I played just was not the same.
Where you err is that you think new corps and alliances should be entitled to own a region right away. Doesn't happen. You start out as a renter. If you do well, you ascend to pet. Then to meatshield. Then to ally. Then finally to independent entity. But none of these steps are granted for love or time played - they have to be earned ingame with commitment and skill (which is why I lol at people who whine that "EVE is a game that rewards not logging in")
I have not erred in fact, you've proven my point quite nicely. My point is simply that a corporation's entry into nullsec is now dictated by preexisting nullsec alliances, and always will be. Renters and pets exist in nullsec only on the sufferage of a preexisting alliance. They didn't conquer that space themselves. As you said, they have to "earn" it. Who are they earning it from, exactly? An entrenched, pre-existing alliance, that's who.
Further, The Initiative. is not actually new in a grassroots sense. The name is new, but it is packed full of good ol' boys and veterans who used to belong to an alliance of a different name. Do you deny this? A fresh alliance created by newer players will never become a power bloc, no matter how much "effort" and "earning" is put into it... barring a miracle, that is.
Finally, since most individual new players are far more likely to try to gain entry into a preexisting nullsec alliance, it's exponentially more difficult for truly fresh alliances to gain numbers, on top of the fact that even if they could, they'd be unlikely to succeed.
What part of "getting in on the ground floor" don't you understand?
Originally posted by Malcanis
The true wealth of 0.0 alliances is the number of active, experienced players who are prepared to work together towards a common goal.
Now that I agree with.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I can understand a lot of the viewpoints listed in this thread, and agree with many of them. As a representative in the CSM, I had a chance to talk to the developers, and I understand some of their grief.
One major problem CCP seems to have is either they have nobody who plays the game, or those who do are in positions of negligible importance in the overall game. There are a lot of problems with the game overall, but none that detract from 99% of the gameplay. The main problem is that the game is almost 7 years old, and has a lot of spaghetti code that seriously needs revamped.
One other note: for those who claim that Eve is a PvP game, it's not. It's not a PvE game either. Eve is a game where both are necessary for the market to continue working the way it has. PvE creates the supply, PvP creates the demand.
In other words, Eve is EvE - Everybody vs Everybody. It is unique in the MMO world, and the company who makes it is not afraid to push the envelope and be a trendsetter. The game is not for everybody, but it caters to a select few who enjoy depth to their games and the slow progress.
This thread has been a very interesting read, and I can't disagree with most stuff there. Just mind you, the game is unique and not for everybody.
"The civilized man is rude, as he knows there are laws that protect him from recompense; The savage is not, for his actions can meet a bloody end." - Robert E. Howard
Don't get me wrong... I love EVE. It's a multiplayer, science-fiction starship simulator. I've been an avid reader of science fiction since I was able to read; I've played Starflight, Elite, Star Control, Master of Orion, Wing Commander, X³: Reunion, and many other space sims and science-fiction computer games; and it's a rare science-fiction film I haven't seen or at least heard of, including old, foreign or obscure ones.
In other words, this game is right up my alley. But it has its faults and drawbacks, and I don't like to see them being glossed over. Glossing them over will only anger new players when they start playing EVE and discover that, in fact, these faults and drawbacks really do exist.
CCP does, in fact undebatably introduce special items, features and mechanics that become unavailable at a later date and foster a form of "grandfatering". If you miss out on certain of these opportunities because you haven't been playing since 2003, then you're simply out of luck. When T2 BPOs were first released, for example, their owners made mind-boggling quantities of ISK from them, hundreds of billions or even trillions in some cases. These days they're not nearly that good, but the point is: Do you think you, as a new player, will ever have a chance at an opportunity like that in your EVE career? Not unless you run a Ponzi scheme (which is possible, don't get me wrong).
Nullsec is similar. It's been settled, and is no longer a frontier. If you want to play EVE in nullsec, you'll do so only as part of an alliance that includes older players and veterans. It is virtually impossible to muscle in with a truly new alliance. When nullsec was first settled, those alliances were all new. This is no longer possible to do, because it's already full of powerful people.
I also challenge anyone to create a trial account and, after a few days or a week, attempt entry into a decent nullsec corporation as a rookie without contacting any of the friends you already have in-game. Ask around, and see how many of them will simply accept rookies. Witness how many of them have 10 million SP requirements, 15 million SP requirements, 20 million SP requirements, and even higher. See how many of them will literally scoff at you for having the gall to approach one of their members about joining.
There are a fair number of nullsec entities without SP requirements or elitism, but which is a rookie MORE LIKELY to encounter first? I'll stake my damned wallet on the former.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
This is a very simple question and would like some serious responses from the gaming community at large - but most from non-EVE players.
What is it, or was it, about the game of EVE that keeps you from playing the game?
MMOs and EvE especially is serious hobby so you cannot really play many at the same time and I do nothing half way. When I crave new experience, I will find it faster in new game. Then after an expansion not to mention some "content unlocks" via long training and some political changes, I will find new experience in EvE again and return.
Btw, EvE is boring. Play WoW. WoW is fun game. EvE is a world. World is no fun. Not most of time. But I like it for the moments when it is and for the hope it give me.
Edit: There was a chance to establish yourself in a new space with the introduction of wormholes. But people settled even space that was specifically designed to not be claimed. Human nature. Oh and there was a chance to make good profit when they changed T2 production.
If they started a brand new server, I would be among the first to get onboard. Until then, people with 7+ years under their belt, due to how EVE's skilling system works, seem so far ahead that they kill any desire in me to continue playing this great game. It's a shame.
CCP should add 10x learning speed rate for the first 30 days.
Comments
OK, first off, let me start by saying that I didn't start playing EVE to PVP. I did want to do some, but I was more interested in becoming part of the EVE universe and wanted to make sure I would succeed in every aspect, therefore I started off with the mindset of making myself financially secure.
So the path you laid out, Kessie, Caracal, Drake was perfect for me, took me right up my intended mission running path and I didn't bother with any PVP (other than those few unfortuante mission runs into low sec) during that time.
As for having a well fit ship, I didn't much care about that, I fought in what I could fly, and yes, I got creamed a few times. (Lost my first Drake in my first Worlds Collide mission)
But after I was bringing in some decent cash, I was able to turn my focus to pvp and I trained up Ravens and Stealth Bombers. By month 4 I was ratting drones in the northlands in my Raven and going out in covert OPs runs in my Manticore during month 5 (which back then used Cruise missiles, which, my Raven also utilized. When PVP called for larger ships I flew Drakes and Ravens, who while oft maligned serve as decent pvp platforms as long as you're not obsessed with min/maxxing.
I won't disagree, I had fun because I was in a good corp, and I was indeed in the mindset of enjoying just learning about the game even if I couldn't fly Capital ships.
3 years and 3 accounts later, and I still can't fly Capital ships, I've been busy focusing elsewhere.
And the heck of it is, despite the fact that I can fly dozens of different ship types, I normally only fight in less than 6, which I certainly had mastered a long time ago.
Don't get me wrong, there's times when I tire of EVE and I go off for a few months and swing a sword in the latest WOW clone, but I always come back for another run at EVE, usually doing a different career or path each time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Played from 2005 to 2008, quit then came back in june this year. Except for a few things like wormholes and revamped exploration, not too much have changed.
PVE => very dull and repetitive, Im talking about missioning. Never tried doing combat sites in wormholes, but i suspect its more or less the same, except with harder hitting npc.
Industry/Manufacturing : unless you were the lucky winner of a valuable T2 BPO, ( not of them are ),, its more a chore than anything else. You can not compete in terms of price with T2 BPO owners, especially with ships
PVP : no skills involved most of the times, PVP in Eve is mostly a gankfest. if you think that killing a fly with a sledgehammer requires immense skills, you re gonna love Eve pvp. Most of eve pvp consists of camping a 0.0 choke point from high/low sec to 0.0 for hours or getting in a fleet which will roam 0.0 empty space for hours and where you will eventually kill 1 poor soul with 35 of your corpmates. Needless to say that if you like a challenge, you re in for a bad surprise.
Doing solo pvp in 0.0, unless you re in an interceptor or with an alt scouting for you, will also result most of the times in a swift death since like I said above, you will be ganked and outnumbered by outrageous numbers.
To fund your pvp habits, you will need a steady income since ships tends to blow up pretty fast especially in 0.0. so back to square 1 with killing npc /missionning , which you will find immensely dull very quickly.
Also unlike in wormholes, 0.0 space have local chat, that means that once the guys who live/npc in a system see someone who is not blue ( faction standing ) entering in, they will either run away or come back with 1 bazillion of his corpmates to get you. There is no surprise effect, generally the guys who bring the biggest numbers or who have a lot of SP wins.
I felt no physical attachment to the game. Yeah i had an avatar picture, but i could not make my ship my own. i felt like my main avatar was disposible. hard to explaine, i love what eve is i love the idea behind it, but when i play it i never feel like part of the world.
Played for years and was in the beta. Quit because CCP was caught red handed cheating and lying and covering up about it. Not only did they not significantly punish their guilty developer to any significant degree, they banned the whistleblower.
This was followed up by more incidents of cheating that were not widely publicized or publically denied. However ingame I knew people that were innocent (from direct ingame and RL experience and evidence) that CCP then smeared and banned. That's when I knew their so-called "Internal Affairs" was a crock and was just to give them a way to deny any wrongdoing. I'm sure CCP and the fanbois would love to pretend these incidents never happened or are irrelevant, but they did and are extremely relevant to those that were the ones being cheated against by the developers. Who knows how many more things are being covered up? This is before even going into things like the macro mining and sweatshop mining.
I refuse to pay money to a corrupt company that lies and cheats against its customer base. CCP lost our corp as customers from the rampant cheating and I make sure to steer my friends clear of any CCP products. Why pay hard earned money to be abused by developers chuckling in their little 0.0 alliances? They shouldn't be an "old boys club" giving favors to their friends, something which has been going on in some fashion ever since beta. It is clear and sustained unprofessionalism and unethical behavior, and the proven incidents only show that it is ingrained in their corporate culture.
I'd like to revisit this post for just a moment.
EVE University or no EVE University, 95% of the nullsec and/or general PvP corps I see recruiting anywhere (threads on Scrapheap Challenge and the official forums, in-game channels, or by word of mouth take your pick) have a 10-15 million skill point minimum requirement, and far more in some cases. It's almost as bad as World of Warcraft's "gear score" garbage, and I believe SP requirements are even higher and more common now than when I retired from EVE in 2008.
This isn't a complaint. In 2007, I organized and co-founded a corporation that still exists today and is part of an alliance. They're mostly carebears, which is why I left them to pursue a life of piracy, but I made it happen. I have no difficulty gaining entry into PvP corporations myself. I know how to play the game, I enjoy throwing away ISKies in the name of fun, I'm sociable and well-spoken, and I'm charismatic on voice chat servers. Also, I still have plenty of old favors to call in and contacts to chat up.
Now, if I can hardly find any nullsec corps without SP requirements, how are new players going to find them? Have you taken a gander at EVE University lately? It can literally take weeks just to be properly accepted and integrated into the E Uni of today. It's pretty damned crowded, and I get the impression it's turning into a real cluster****.
Once again, let me stress that I'm not saying new players can't get started in EVE. I'm simply saying it's not all guns and roses. It can be downright annoying.
That can cause players to try EVE and not stay, which is what this thread's about. It's not CCP's fault, either it's elitist players' fault, in my opinion.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Also, when people say that new players can't "catch up," they're at least partially correct, even though they're usually talking about Skill Points. Anyone can purchase a veteran pilot for ISK, certainly, but opportunities to "get in on the ground floor" are more-or-less gone now.
The T2 BPO lottery, for instance, was over and done with years ago. They're primarily in the hands of large alliances now with some exceptions, I'm sure, but since T2 BPOs basically print ISK for their owners, they're rarely available for sale, and incredibly expensive when they are.
Nullsec is already fully settled, and the alliances holding territory there become more firmly entrenched with the passing of each year. Certainly nullsec has wars and shake-ups, but even when a large alliance falls (which is rare), generally its remnants pick up the pieces, reorganize themselves and continue to occupy space in nullsec.
What this means is that newer, grassroots corporations and alliances stand little chance of ever gaining their own glory in nullsec. Someone put a name to the Band of Brothers alliance all those years ago, and that name became synonymous with nullsec domination. That can't happen anymore, because due to the way the game works, new players who wish to pursue a life in 0.0 are simply shuffled into pre-existing nullsec alliances.
Speaking of which, and to support my point, BoB still exists. It's just not called BoB anymore. And they still hold approximately the same space they have for the better part of a decade.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Really?
Most I've seen have about a 5-6mil SP requirement. I'm sure there are quite a few with even less.
That's not that bad, considering I have an alt I'm training right now who isn't even 30 days old yet and has 2.3mil SP.
Before the 51 days are up, he is going to be able to fly a fully T2 Fit Viator + extra nav skills and fly an Obliesk.
Personally, I think my corp's recruitment policy is if you're a mature person and can fly at least a tackling interceptor, then it doesn't matter what you're SP is.
I think I've seen alot of other corps out there who only require the player to fly and fit a BC. Because a bird in the hand if worth 2 in the bush. You can easily fly and fit a BC in less time than the 21 day trial.
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hell, my corp has no SP limit and we do live in 0.0 and have sovreignty in a couple of systems (we do have an age condition 18+) and i know alot of corps that have no SP limit and teach you the ropes and how to build your character without making the noob mistakes when training skills. we also teach them how to live in 0.0 and survive.
our corp believes that eve is 0.0 and should be played as of day 1. we have 3 month old players making enough isk to pay for monthly plexes.
so dont give me that BS that it takes years to compete with the top dogs.
You don't compete with the top dogs, and you never will, unless you join them. I'm not sure what you think "top dog" means in this game if you believe that, because "a couple of systems" isn't much. My point is that an alliance named by you will never occupy a large power bloc; only pre-existing alliances or reformations of those alliances under a different banner will be able to do so. That's not an insult it's a fact of life for you, me, and indeed all "newer" EVE players.
It's no one's fault, really. Nullsec is essentially a new world that was colonized long ago. Those old veterans continue playing EVE; those who do quit are replaced by new blood from within their own alliances. This ultimately means that grassroots dreams of nullsec domination are destined to fail, barring a miracle.
Switching gears for a moment, it's easy to say, "There are plenty of nullsec corps/alliances without skill point requirements." I already knew that, though your definition of "plenty" may vary from my own, and these often tend to be the smaller corporations/alliances. From my point of view, they are very much a minority compared to those that either have SP requirements, or have special entry restrictions (Goonfleet requires Something Awful membership, Test Alliance Please Ignore requires a three-month minimum Reddit membership, etc.).
Yes, anyone with a brain can get into nullsec within a month of starting EVE, but that's beside the point I'm trying to make here.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I am a member of The Initiative. INIT. is a relatively new alliance - about 18 months or so IIRC (someone correct me?). We have space, we're getting more space right now. It happens all the time, in fact.
Where you err is that you think new corps and alliances should be entitled to own a region right away. Doesn't happen. You start out as a renter. If you do well, you ascend to pet. Then to meatshield. Then to ally. Then finally to independent entity. But none of these steps are granted for love or time played - they have to be earned ingame with commitment and skill (which is why I lol at people who whine that "EVE is a game that rewards not logging in")
Every single system in sov space has changed hands at least once, most multiple times. If you want space you have to to capable of earning it, taking it and finally defending it - just like the present occupants. Spaceholders who become decadent invariably lose their space in short order (as is happening right now in Catch/Tenerifis).
As for T2 BPOs... people all get hung up on these. They're nice to have, sure I guess, but 3 months after Invention was introduced, the real profit moved to moon owners and there it has stayed ever since. And a single rather mediocre ratter can easily generate as much ISK as a technetium moon - a good ratter can crank more ISK in a week from Sanctums/Havens than a tech moon can generate in a month.
The true wealth of 0.0 alliances is the number of active, experienced players who are prepared to work together towards a common goal.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I tried Eve and enjoyed it well enough but there are a few things that kept me from subbing and some are things they couldn't possibly have done anything about.
1)I'm not prone to trying "new" ip's very often, when I play a video game I like to place myself as firmly into the role of my character as possible and often with a new lore that requires learning about the lore even though it may be something that doesn't interest me as much as playing the game would. add to that there was no "pull" to learn more about the lore and that was one nail in the coffin.
2)EVE is known as a sandbox and while I love sandbox gameplay I also get the feeling that pve is purely an afterthought with this game which is another problem I don't pvp that much and only like to play with others when I feel like it which again is less often than more so I get the feeling my playtime in EVE would be minimal since so much of the game seems to revolve around your corp and such.
From a technical standpoint the game felt and played great and it seemed that if I had just a bit more of an analtytical mind frame I may have loved to play this game for hours on end much like I have done with games like SWG,WOW etc. but I actually enjoy the simplicity of many of the current crops of games and mmo's specifically.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I have played on and off since 2005. I always love jumping in the first few months but then it feels like a second job. PI was what killed me off this last time. Logging in every 5 hours and setting extractors was just silly and doing it for any lomger time periods didnt seem to be worth it in materials produced.
You also can not seem to just jump in and have fun. You jump in, find a roaming gang, grab a ship and outfit it, fly all over and hope to find some PVP. 0.0 blob warfare is no fun and the lag introduced in dominion kills off what little fun it had. Then there is the part where you can work hard for three years and have some scumbag rip apart everything you did simply because he is a teabagger. BOB, GOON's and UK all found out how one simple a$$hat can ruin years of hard work. You can not even mine in empire anymore safely. It is almost like a galactic crime simulator.
I tried the 14 day trial and quit on day 2. I did not like the way you "Fly" your ship by clicking on the screen in the direction you want to go. I did not like the UI at all. The game is just to complex starting out to keep new players playing. Did not care for the real time needed for ranking up the skills. The way things work new players will never catch up to the long time players. The game sounds fun on paper, but when I played just was not the same.
I have not erred in fact, you've proven my point quite nicely. My point is simply that a corporation's entry into nullsec is now dictated by preexisting nullsec alliances, and always will be. Renters and pets exist in nullsec only on the sufferage of a preexisting alliance. They didn't conquer that space themselves. As you said, they have to "earn" it. Who are they earning it from, exactly? An entrenched, pre-existing alliance, that's who.
Further, The Initiative. is not actually new in a grassroots sense. The name is new, but it is packed full of good ol' boys and veterans who used to belong to an alliance of a different name. Do you deny this? A fresh alliance created by newer players will never become a power bloc, no matter how much "effort" and "earning" is put into it... barring a miracle, that is.
Finally, since most individual new players are far more likely to try to gain entry into a preexisting nullsec alliance, it's exponentially more difficult for truly fresh alliances to gain numbers, on top of the fact that even if they could, they'd be unlikely to succeed.
What part of "getting in on the ground floor" don't you understand?
Now that I agree with.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I can understand a lot of the viewpoints listed in this thread, and agree with many of them. As a representative in the CSM, I had a chance to talk to the developers, and I understand some of their grief.
One major problem CCP seems to have is either they have nobody who plays the game, or those who do are in positions of negligible importance in the overall game. There are a lot of problems with the game overall, but none that detract from 99% of the gameplay. The main problem is that the game is almost 7 years old, and has a lot of spaghetti code that seriously needs revamped.
One other note: for those who claim that Eve is a PvP game, it's not. It's not a PvE game either. Eve is a game where both are necessary for the market to continue working the way it has. PvE creates the supply, PvP creates the demand.
In other words, Eve is EvE - Everybody vs Everybody. It is unique in the MMO world, and the company who makes it is not afraid to push the envelope and be a trendsetter. The game is not for everybody, but it caters to a select few who enjoy depth to their games and the slow progress.
This thread has been a very interesting read, and I can't disagree with most stuff there. Just mind you, the game is unique and not for everybody.
"The civilized man is rude, as he knows there are laws that protect him from recompense; The savage is not, for his actions can meet a bloody end."
- Robert E. Howard
Don't get me wrong... I love EVE. It's a multiplayer, science-fiction starship simulator. I've been an avid reader of science fiction since I was able to read; I've played Starflight, Elite, Star Control, Master of Orion, Wing Commander, X³: Reunion, and many other space sims and science-fiction computer games; and it's a rare science-fiction film I haven't seen or at least heard of, including old, foreign or obscure ones.
In other words, this game is right up my alley. But it has its faults and drawbacks, and I don't like to see them being glossed over. Glossing them over will only anger new players when they start playing EVE and discover that, in fact, these faults and drawbacks really do exist.
CCP does, in fact undebatably introduce special items, features and mechanics that become unavailable at a later date and foster a form of "grandfatering". If you miss out on certain of these opportunities because you haven't been playing since 2003, then you're simply out of luck. When T2 BPOs were first released, for example, their owners made mind-boggling quantities of ISK from them, hundreds of billions or even trillions in some cases. These days they're not nearly that good, but the point is: Do you think you, as a new player, will ever have a chance at an opportunity like that in your EVE career? Not unless you run a Ponzi scheme (which is possible, don't get me wrong).
Nullsec is similar. It's been settled, and is no longer a frontier. If you want to play EVE in nullsec, you'll do so only as part of an alliance that includes older players and veterans. It is virtually impossible to muscle in with a truly new alliance. When nullsec was first settled, those alliances were all new. This is no longer possible to do, because it's already full of powerful people.
I also challenge anyone to create a trial account and, after a few days or a week, attempt entry into a decent nullsec corporation as a rookie without contacting any of the friends you already have in-game. Ask around, and see how many of them will simply accept rookies. Witness how many of them have 10 million SP requirements, 15 million SP requirements, 20 million SP requirements, and even higher. See how many of them will literally scoff at you for having the gall to approach one of their members about joining.
There are a fair number of nullsec entities without SP requirements or elitism, but which is a rookie MORE LIKELY to encounter first? I'll stake my damned wallet on the former.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
MMOs and EvE especially is serious hobby so you cannot really play many at the same time and I do nothing half way. When I crave new experience, I will find it faster in new game. Then after an expansion not to mention some "content unlocks" via long training and some political changes, I will find new experience in EvE again and return.
Btw, EvE is boring. Play WoW. WoW is fun game. EvE is a world. World is no fun. Not most of time. But I like it for the moments when it is and for the hope it give me.
Edit: There was a chance to establish yourself in a new space with the introduction of wormholes. But people settled even space that was specifically designed to not be claimed. Human nature. Oh and there was a chance to make good profit when they changed T2 production.
If they started a brand new server, I would be among the first to get onboard. Until then, people with 7+ years under their belt, due to how EVE's skilling system works, seem so far ahead that they kill any desire in me to continue playing this great game. It's a shame.
CCP should add 10x learning speed rate for the first 30 days.
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.