K I know for a FACT that a tenth of the WoW Guilds are Bringing there whole Guild over. This will not Kill WoW but since WoW killed it self with the last Patch,ToR didn't have to. I mean if Blizzard didn't learning anything from what sony did.Just Shame on them. When u tell a lv 80 who paid u over 6K in sub's that his 80 is now broke.U have to play Our way or no way. This was a Stupid move from someone who thott they could do anything and ppl would kiss there ass. There is only one way to make your Toon now,so PvP is just dumb. I mean don't get me wrong I know there was alot of these Buy a power level ppl,who don't know shit goes and gets a cheat sheet to make there toon to what Joe blow said was the best. But now there is only 1 way. Blizzard will be F2P in 2 years or less. U can take that to the BANK!!!!!
Umm honestly though simply by playing WOW (even before the last patch) they were already making you play their way or to move on to another game like I did years ago. And I don't see how you could know for a "fact" that a tenth of WOW guilds are going to bring their entire guild to TOR, well unless you are a high ranking Blizzard employee.
If at some point in time TOR is able to rival WOW in sub numbers I don't think it's something anyone could expect right away. I think regardless of what people say TOR is in a great position to challenge for some launch records but it has to release in a better state than more than half the mmo's that are currently released do or they simply will not have the chance to catch WOW as we know the state of the consumer to be now.
My expectation is that Bioware will make a compelling enough game to easily slide into the number two spot rather quickly but don't expect (no matter who doesn't like the chages) Blizzard to lose it's crown any time soon.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
SW:ToR has one Big jump to make if they are going to Break any Launch records and that has nothing to do with them. The US Depression makes it hard for alot of MMOers to keep there Subs going. So SW:ToR coming out in a depression will Hurt there launch in the US. The soon they get there Pre-Order out,will make all the difference. It will give people time to pay for it a little at a time. There Marketing Team isn't really think as a Post Boom Econ. Then I could be wrong that might be the Big Twist there talking about. F2P Servers and Sub Servers. Even F2P u will have to put out a Sum of money when it Ships.
Originally posted by DerWotanBig $ usually comes from big (bad) companies such as EA, Activision leading to a forced release and company shreddering (Mythic, Origin, Westwood, Bluebyte!...)
I doubt EA would screw over Bioware, its one of their most successful developers and greatest cashcows, yeah EA can be pretty crap but they do publish some good games and most of them come from Bioware.
The slide has already started for Bioware under the control of EA.
The depth of their games is being sacrificed for the mass market and the MT/ DLC proftieering is getting heavier and heavier.
If you havent seen this you don't follow Bioware.
Bioware games are as good as ever from my point of view, Dragon age was deep and ME2 was deep in its own way, ME2 was not about inventory management or crafting its depth was the character interaction and cinematic representation of the action.
DLC are the market standard now even FPS games are cashing in on this and in Biowares defense most of the DLC have been well worth the money.
Consider how much you would pay for something like a DVD or album and compare it to ME2s Lair of the shadow broker you are getting the same kind of entertainment time per £££ ratio and the same can be said for the Dragon age DLCs.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum two days ago.
Before I get into stuff - I think there is a clarity issue in the forum. When people claim that SWTOR will succeed/fail or that we can't know whether or not it will succeed fail - they often do not identify what they mean by succeed/fail. Some people are talking about the game succeeding if it is a fun game that they play for 6-7 months, some people define success as being financially stable for a 5 year period and returning some degree of profit for the investors, others define success as crafting a game that could sustain some level of players for some amount of time. I think theorizing about success/failure is fine as long as you clearly define what you mean when you are talking about success. I think we don't have much information as to what the gameplay / progression / world will actually come together as, so it is hard to tell if it is going to be really fun or not, and for whom and how long. The things I do think we could talk about is financial success - how much does the game cost and how many box sales and subscriptions for what amount of time would be necessary for the game to succeed in turning a profit. Tobold or someone crunched the numbers and seemed to think that it would take a huge amount of sustained subscriptions for the game to be successful. I don't know how accurate their figures were, but this is something that could be researched and turned into an article. Research the costs - development, maintenance, marketing, etc., then research what the revenue would need to be based on the monthly fee and cost of the box in order to determine how many subscriptions would be needed in order to make money on the game. Once we have a number like... 1 mil box sales and 300k subscriptions or something, we could talk about whether or not that is a realistic goal for SWTOR to reach or not. Jon Wood - it would be awesome if you wrote this article - I think someone did a barebones analysis in the blogosphere but if you did an in depth research project and looked at comprable games to help estimate the full list of costs/revenue it would be awesome. You could interview some CFOs of other game companies to see what they have to say. Could be awesome! Do it!
Wood states a lot of the facts about the game - which is nothing hugely special, but still useful to keep people in check. That said, I think it is not really valuable to rule out speculation as to success/failure of the game b/c if you do - and only allow a presentation of the facts, then there really isn't much to talk about. And, we do have some information about the game, which we can use to make some arguments about how successful the game may be both in terms of success as a good/enjoyable game, and in terms of economic success. I think the issue Wood takes with this speculation is that so much of it is unfounded and without specificity or much argumentative weight - and also makes claims such as SWTOR WILL FAIL! as opposed to I think that because of x, y, z aspects of the game and looking at past games that attempted such things / spent such money failed/succeeded I think that SWTOR will perform in x manner. It would be helpful to know more about c, d, e in order to make a better guess at the games success. Basically people don't lay bare their arguments.
I think one of the biggest questions (for me at least, and I haven't been following very closely) is simply what the game world will be like. A lot of people are concerned about how a single player RPG story-based type game will translate into a MMORPG with small grouping. How linear is the gameplay? How many different paths are there you can take through the leveling process? How will everyone working through different parts of the story simultaneously work in a world? Will you be able to repeat dungeons / instances? How will they change after you have done the major story part associated with the dungeon? What are the dungeons going to be like? What are the interactions b/w good and evil factions going to look like? Where does pvp come in to play? How will it work?
---- Some of these questions may already be answered, but I don't know them. I don't really know how a story based MMO with small groups will work. I love the Diablo series (which people often compare SWTOR to, when upset) but I don't have any clue how it would work as an MMO. Which isn't to say it won't work, I just can't picture it yet. If anyone has answers to some of the questions - post it up.
I totally agree with the author. With that said though, this game seem to be going in a good direction for me at least. A lot of the ideas going into this game are ideas that I've had in the past. Ideas I had while playing Star Wars Galaxies that just would have never worked in SWG. Things that would make for a great Star Wars MMO in my opinion. Of course I am only going by what has been said by Boware themselves. Which I highly respect the company. I hated most RPGs until I played KotOR 1, which was the first RPG I ever liked completely. I just didn't care for the combat system, but the storyline mechanics is what kept me play and lead me to play KotOR 2 and try other Bioware RPGs. Such as Mass Effect 1 and 2. Which are my favorite RPGs of all-time. I know its early to call SW: TOR, but its the first MMO since SWG to get me excited to play an MMO again. And not just because its Star Wars, but honestly an IP always helps for me. As for it revolutionizing the industry and the genre. I think it has a very good chance at doing both, but again it might not.Yet as I said I think it has a good chance, which is my own opinion based on the track record of Bioware. We will all see when either open beta starts or at game launch whats, what. Say anything for sure now doesn't matter, but everyone is free to have their own opinions. At least here in the United States.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin. People like to say that WoW didn't reinvent the wheel which is partiallly true but they made smoothed out the wheel and added a better axel. SWTOR on the other hand isn't doing anything but throwing a coat of paint on it.
Until you realize that your storyline doesn't matter you won't be able to see it though. Just like the quests in WoW weren't important at all neither is SWTOR's story. Don't get me wrong, story is cool and all but it doesn't change the gameplay, which is why people play games. If SWTOR will have the exact same gameplay as WoW, what's the point of playing it? Story will only keep certain players interested and only for so long. I've yet to see anything in SWTOR that makes me say "OH!, I want to play that!" and instead I keep saing "I'm pretty sure I've already done that in WoW.
As far as content, yeah we can know because frankly they aren't breaking the mold. They've already said their crafting will be WoW like and they aren't doing a crafter economy. That means crafting will be a secondary thing that you might spend 30 minutes a week on after it's leveled.
Companions are a hinderance to some players. Did you see EVERYONE rolling hunters in WoW? No! Because some people don't like dealing with pets. When a pet is a huge part of your combat strength you need to monitor it all the time. It might get stuck, get killeed, triggering their abilities, attack something you don't want it to, etc. I've tried pet classes again and again and I've yet to find one that doesn't involve micromanaging, except ones where you can sacrafice your pet for more benefits. You might like it but there are a good bit of people that don't.
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin.
You mean the people who have never played the game thats not out and doesnt come out for a few years? tyhat game? the game they dont actually know anything about? and have never played?
Did i meantion theve never played it?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin.
You mean the people who have never played the game thats not out and doesnt come out for a few years? tyhat game? the game they dont actually know anything about? and have never played?
Did i meantion theve never played it?
You do know that there TOR is in closed beta testing, right? There are people out there who have actually played the game and have an actual feel and understanding on how it works.
I see people use this "no one has played the game" excuse all the time. As someone who has played the game, all I can do is shake my head at the ignorance.
He tells us 'what it isnt', as facts, therefore you now presenting it as 'just his opinion' is strange.
Tbh, this article is no better or worse then any of the threads I have read on the game, the posters of which, and he readers, he is talking down to (as is becoming his habit in these posts tbh).
It all comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
This, as i attempted to point out anyone can say anything and then say because no one can predict the future and be accurate. This is was JW did, nothing more. However, he targeted people giving their opinions of the game when he himself provides nothing more than that. Kettle meet pot be black.
Originally posted by droini
K I know for a FACT that a tenth of the WoW Guilds are Bringing there whole Guild over. This will not Kill WoW but since WoW killed it self with the last Patch,ToR didn't have to. I mean if Blizzard didn't learning anything from what sony did.Just Shame on them. When u tell a lv 80 who paid u over 6K in sub's that his 80 is now broke.U have to play Our way or no way. This was a Stupid move from someone who thott they could do anything and ppl would kiss there ass. There is only one way to make your Toon now,so PvP is just dumb. I mean don't get me wrong I know there was alot of these Buy a power level ppl,who don't know shit goes and gets a cheat sheet to make there toon to what Joe blow said was the best. But now there is only 1 way. Blizzard will be F2P in 2 years or less. U can take that to the BANK!!!!!
For a fact huh, lets see what other for fact comments i can make rq.
I know for fact: that only one in 20 wow players will even try swtor. (PS i don't knwo these things im just makign up BS like Droini here, but i bet im closer). That had you subcribed at $15 monthly when wow first came out and never cancelled the sub, the max cost you would have paid with expantiosn cost is $1780 , Far shy if $6k (Facts seem to be a weak point with you droini). Rouges are the only broked pve toons atm.
For the record I FEEL THAT Swtor could use more of wow in it. It seems weak as a mmorpg atm to me. (And i feel wow is a tad weak also, but has been around for so long that it has a lot of content).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This was a masterpiece of an article. Every post conveys the emotions that it brought out.
I completely agree with everything that was said. In addition, I will be buying this game no matter what happens between now and then. I will be buying it for the same reason I saw Avatar in theatre. Hopefully SWTOR will not be like Avatar. Loved by most, hated by me.
He tells us 'what it isnt', as facts, therefore you now presenting it as 'just his opinion' is strange.
Tbh, this article is no better or worse then any of the threads I have read on the game, the posters of which, and he readers, he is talking down to (as is becoming his habit in these posts tbh).
It all comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
This, as i attempted to point out anyone can say anything and then say because no one can predict the future and be accurate. This is was JW did, nothing more. However, he targeted people giving their opinions of the game when he himself provides nothing more than that. Kettle meet pot be black.
Originally posted by droini
K I know for a FACT that a tenth of the WoW Guilds are Bringing there whole Guild over. This will not Kill WoW but since WoW killed it self with the last Patch,ToR didn't have to. I mean if Blizzard didn't learning anything from what sony did.Just Shame on them. When u tell a lv 80 who paid u over 6K in sub's that his 80 is now broke.U have to play Our way or no way. This was a Stupid move from someone who thott they could do anything and ppl would kiss there ass. There is only one way to make your Toon now,so PvP is just dumb. I mean don't get me wrong I know there was alot of these Buy a power level ppl,who don't know shit goes and gets a cheat sheet to make there toon to what Joe blow said was the best. But now there is only 1 way. Blizzard will be F2P in 2 years or less. U can take that to the BANK!!!!!
For a fact huh, lets see what other for fact comments i can make rq.
I know for fact: that only one in 20 wow players will even try swtor. (PS i don't knwo these things im just makign up BS like Droini here, but i bet im closer). That had you subcribed at $15 monthly when wow first came out and never cancelled the sub, the max cost you would have paid with expantiosn cost is $1780 , Far shy if $6k (Facts seem to be a weak point with you droini). Rouges are the only broked pve toons atm.
For the record I FEEL THAT Swtor could use more of wow in it. It seems weak as a mmorpg atm to me. (And i feel wow is a tad weak also, but has been around for so long that it has a lot of content).
I Have 70's and a few 80's on 6 servers and Have done some Poll's Where I have gotten Higher numbers then 10% but if u take the 6 server into the number of total servers. U will get a round about number which is still a little higher then 10%. U have to take into account for PvP servers have more Die hard ppl who don't want to start over after putting there life into there toon. A few more Factors. As for u thinking that the Majority of WoW subs are Happy u are so off. The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. They done said they will go F2P if they lose to many sub's.
WoW is a Dying Beast. They need to make a WoW2 or just make it F2P and go on with a new IP. The Life spin of WoW is running out. I know it's like SWG u got ppl who put there life into 1 Toon and are so afraid to start over. Guess what Game's die and WoW is getting there. They had a Great run but u don't milk a cow dry and keep it around for looks
U must have never Heard of MMoers that have 2 to 3 sub's. Now SWG u almost had to have 2-4 sub's to get everything out it. WoW 2 sub's is good. All the CE and all the Digtial Downloads so u could play at midnight before u could pick up CE at 8 am. Guess all this is unheard of . No because I know a lot of people who do this. Plus if u talk about these ppl who are afraid to leave. They got all the loot cards which is Thousand's of dollars. I Know it cost me at least 150 till I got the turtle mount Loot Card.
People are still playing EverQuest. I seriously doubt that WoW will be dieing anytime soon. Yes it will lose subs as all MMO's do over time. But I feel the only way WoW will close down or die as you say is if Blizzard closes it due to having something new come out. Which again would make no sense for them to close it down. Even if there subs went down to 500k I think they would keep it running. I think it will be many years to come before WoW gets that low. EvE only has about 350k subs and its doing well.
The thing I find most amusing is that way back in 1999 when I quit EQ the first time I had friends telling me that EQ wasn't gonna last 2 more years after I quit. Lol
Actually the one MMO I do feel may have a big impact (and I really hope they hit a homerun.) on other MMO's is Guild Wars 2. If these guys make a great MMO, that has alot of content and good PvP. Then don't charge monthly subs, it will make a hard case for people to continue paying the subs for their current MMO. I really do hope the game is as good as hype is for it. I think all these MMO's are robbing us.
He tells us 'what it isnt', as facts, therefore you now presenting it as 'just his opinion' is strange.
Tbh, this article is no better or worse then any of the threads I have read on the game, the posters of which, and he readers, he is talking down to (as is becoming his habit in these posts tbh).
It all comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
Is this too hard to understand? He's referring to the forums in this article. In fewer words it says chill the **** out, and stop posting the same BS over and over in every thread. I'm pretty sure if he wanted to say just that he would have, but he was writing an article, which means he had to say that in a lot more words.
Of course in doing so there's a risk that for some the point would be lost. As they only read up to a certain point, see something they don't like, then fly off the handle.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i understand why the guy making this article is pissed, because customer are basically very rude now when it come to mmo gaming, and the ambiance overall in the mmo world is really hard, but then again the industry is for something in this situation.
The problem with star war is that what costumers are expecting is excatly what you are not doing of it. Now if lucas gave his name to biowaer because its "The" mmo company, then its his fault. He should have known better than anyone else than star wars is the symbol of inovation, star conquer, and sand box, just like 99% of the custoumer is expecting it to be. So next time maybe find a company that can deliver what star war is the symbol. Now i thinq everyone know start war name is now nothing else than a cash cow, and the last produst are nothing els. But for the customers, when you say "stars war" it trigger the first film symbols, and not the shit he is making now. This mean inovation, space conquer, and sand box"... Now you can think its something the costumers are telling you something esle, its you who should listen to them by respect. Not us who should listen to you...
i understand why the guy making this article is pissed, because customer are basically very rude now when it come to mmo gaming, and the ambiance overall in the mmo world is really hard, but then again the industry is for something in this situation.
The problem with star war is that what costumers are expecting is excatly what you are not doing of it. Now if lucas gave his name to biowaer because its "The" mmo company, then its his fault. He should have known better than anyone else than star wars is the symbol of inovation, star conquer, and sand box, just like 99% of the custoumer is expecting it to be. So next time maybe find a company that can deliver what star war is the symbol. Now i thinq everyone know start war name is now nothing else than a cash cow, and the last produst are nothing els. But for the customers, when you say "stars war" it trigger the first film symbols, and not the shit he is making now. This mean inovation, space conquer, and sand box"... Now you can think its something the costumers are telling you something esle, its you who should listen to them by respect. Not us who should listen to you...
How is Star Wars a symbol of the Sandbox? Star wars could be a structured story based experience, that is after all what movies are. It could also be an expanded simulation of a galaxy. The lore is deep enough to allow that sure, that deosn't mean it HAS to be presented in such a way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Essentially, what I gathered from this post is "Bioware has done X before, don't expect Y". You say "If you’re saying this already, I’m sorry, but you’re only guessing", but so are you. Almost everything here is a guess. Must be a slow day.
Essentially, what I gathered from this post is "Bioware has done X before, don't expect Y". You say "If you’re saying this already, I’m sorry, but you’re only guessing", but so are you. Almost everything here is a guess. Must be a slow day.
No it's more like saying (only in reference to this point). Bioware has stated this is a guided experience, devoted to story. Which means don't expect a game like SWG. Not much guess work involved when the developers have stated as much.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
- A game where design choices are being made by successful heavy hitters in the MMO genre
- A space game
- An exploration game
- A sandbox
- A game where a player will feel unique in their class
- A game where a player will feel unique in their armor
- A game where a player will feel unique with anything besides RP'ability
- A graphically beautiful game
This probably sums up what most of the troll or whine posts would come up with. Don't get me wrong I have hope for the game and I am sure with all the money being put into it this will be a solid title for at least a month or two and well worth the box price.
Well you've got to write in a manner that represents your readers in some way. The sad part is this is the crap that this site has come to represent. Not to say the article is crap as I agree with the overall message. I'm just saying, you can't say this doesn't give a glimpse at the stuff that gets posted here daily.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Errr no... it's set in "A long time a go, in a galaxy far far away" :P
Umm honestly though simply by playing WOW (even before the last patch) they were already making you play their way or to move on to another game like I did years ago. And I don't see how you could know for a "fact" that a tenth of WOW guilds are going to bring their entire guild to TOR, well unless you are a high ranking Blizzard employee.
If at some point in time TOR is able to rival WOW in sub numbers I don't think it's something anyone could expect right away. I think regardless of what people say TOR is in a great position to challenge for some launch records but it has to release in a better state than more than half the mmo's that are currently released do or they simply will not have the chance to catch WOW as we know the state of the consumer to be now.
My expectation is that Bioware will make a compelling enough game to easily slide into the number two spot rather quickly but don't expect (no matter who doesn't like the chages) Blizzard to lose it's crown any time soon.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
SW:ToR has one Big jump to make if they are going to Break any Launch records and that has nothing to do with them. The US Depression makes it hard for alot of MMOers to keep there Subs going. So SW:ToR coming out in a depression will Hurt there launch in the US. The soon they get there Pre-Order out,will make all the difference. It will give people time to pay for it a little at a time. There Marketing Team isn't really think as a Post Boom Econ. Then I could be wrong that might be the Big Twist there talking about. F2P Servers and Sub Servers. Even F2P u will have to put out a Sum of money when it Ships.
Bioware games are as good as ever from my point of view, Dragon age was deep and ME2 was deep in its own way, ME2 was not about inventory management or crafting its depth was the character interaction and cinematic representation of the action.
DLC are the market standard now even FPS games are cashing in on this and in Biowares defense most of the DLC have been well worth the money.
Consider how much you would pay for something like a DVD or album and compare it to ME2s Lair of the shadow broker you are getting the same kind of entertainment time per £££ ratio and the same can be said for the Dragon age DLCs.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
well I for one can't wait to play, see you there.
Accidentally posted this in the wrong forum two days ago.
Before I get into stuff - I think there is a clarity issue in the forum. When people claim that SWTOR will succeed/fail or that we can't know whether or not it will succeed fail - they often do not identify what they mean by succeed/fail. Some people are talking about the game succeeding if it is a fun game that they play for 6-7 months, some people define success as being financially stable for a 5 year period and returning some degree of profit for the investors, others define success as crafting a game that could sustain some level of players for some amount of time. I think theorizing about success/failure is fine as long as you clearly define what you mean when you are talking about success. I think we don't have much information as to what the gameplay / progression / world will actually come together as, so it is hard to tell if it is going to be really fun or not, and for whom and how long. The things I do think we could talk about is financial success - how much does the game cost and how many box sales and subscriptions for what amount of time would be necessary for the game to succeed in turning a profit. Tobold or someone crunched the numbers and seemed to think that it would take a huge amount of sustained subscriptions for the game to be successful. I don't know how accurate their figures were, but this is something that could be researched and turned into an article. Research the costs - development, maintenance, marketing, etc., then research what the revenue would need to be based on the monthly fee and cost of the box in order to determine how many subscriptions would be needed in order to make money on the game. Once we have a number like... 1 mil box sales and 300k subscriptions or something, we could talk about whether or not that is a realistic goal for SWTOR to reach or not. Jon Wood - it would be awesome if you wrote this article - I think someone did a barebones analysis in the blogosphere but if you did an in depth research project and looked at comprable games to help estimate the full list of costs/revenue it would be awesome. You could interview some CFOs of other game companies to see what they have to say. Could be awesome! Do it!
Wood states a lot of the facts about the game - which is nothing hugely special, but still useful to keep people in check. That said, I think it is not really valuable to rule out speculation as to success/failure of the game b/c if you do - and only allow a presentation of the facts, then there really isn't much to talk about. And, we do have some information about the game, which we can use to make some arguments about how successful the game may be both in terms of success as a good/enjoyable game, and in terms of economic success. I think the issue Wood takes with this speculation is that so much of it is unfounded and without specificity or much argumentative weight - and also makes claims such as SWTOR WILL FAIL! as opposed to I think that because of x, y, z aspects of the game and looking at past games that attempted such things / spent such money failed/succeeded I think that SWTOR will perform in x manner. It would be helpful to know more about c, d, e in order to make a better guess at the games success. Basically people don't lay bare their arguments.
I think one of the biggest questions (for me at least, and I haven't been following very closely) is simply what the game world will be like. A lot of people are concerned about how a single player RPG story-based type game will translate into a MMORPG with small grouping. How linear is the gameplay? How many different paths are there you can take through the leveling process? How will everyone working through different parts of the story simultaneously work in a world? Will you be able to repeat dungeons / instances? How will they change after you have done the major story part associated with the dungeon? What are the dungeons going to be like? What are the interactions b/w good and evil factions going to look like? Where does pvp come in to play? How will it work?
---- Some of these questions may already be answered, but I don't know them. I don't really know how a story based MMO with small groups will work. I love the Diablo series (which people often compare SWTOR to, when upset) but I don't have any clue how it would work as an MMO. Which isn't to say it won't work, I just can't picture it yet. If anyone has answers to some of the questions - post it up.
I totally agree with the author. With that said though, this game seem to be going in a good direction for me at least. A lot of the ideas going into this game are ideas that I've had in the past. Ideas I had while playing Star Wars Galaxies that just would have never worked in SWG. Things that would make for a great Star Wars MMO in my opinion. Of course I am only going by what has been said by Boware themselves. Which I highly respect the company. I hated most RPGs until I played KotOR 1, which was the first RPG I ever liked completely. I just didn't care for the combat system, but the storyline mechanics is what kept me play and lead me to play KotOR 2 and try other Bioware RPGs. Such as Mass Effect 1 and 2. Which are my favorite RPGs of all-time. I know its early to call SW: TOR, but its the first MMO since SWG to get me excited to play an MMO again. And not just because its Star Wars, but honestly an IP always helps for me. As for it revolutionizing the industry and the genre. I think it has a very good chance at doing both, but again it might not.Yet as I said I think it has a good chance, which is my own opinion based on the track record of Bioware. We will all see when either open beta starts or at game launch whats, what. Say anything for sure now doesn't matter, but everyone is free to have their own opinions. At least here in the United States.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin. People like to say that WoW didn't reinvent the wheel which is partiallly true but they made smoothed out the wheel and added a better axel. SWTOR on the other hand isn't doing anything but throwing a coat of paint on it.
Until you realize that your storyline doesn't matter you won't be able to see it though. Just like the quests in WoW weren't important at all neither is SWTOR's story. Don't get me wrong, story is cool and all but it doesn't change the gameplay, which is why people play games. If SWTOR will have the exact same gameplay as WoW, what's the point of playing it? Story will only keep certain players interested and only for so long. I've yet to see anything in SWTOR that makes me say "OH!, I want to play that!" and instead I keep saing "I'm pretty sure I've already done that in WoW.
As far as content, yeah we can know because frankly they aren't breaking the mold. They've already said their crafting will be WoW like and they aren't doing a crafter economy. That means crafting will be a secondary thing that you might spend 30 minutes a week on after it's leveled.
Companions are a hinderance to some players. Did you see EVERYONE rolling hunters in WoW? No! Because some people don't like dealing with pets. When a pet is a huge part of your combat strength you need to monitor it all the time. It might get stuck, get killeed, triggering their abilities, attack something you don't want it to, etc. I've tried pet classes again and again and I've yet to find one that doesn't involve micromanaging, except ones where you can sacrafice your pet for more benefits. You might like it but there are a good bit of people that don't.
The artwork reminds me of the old tabletop warhammer 40k series. For the kids that would be World of Warcraft Art.
You mean the people who have never played the game thats not out and doesnt come out for a few years? tyhat game? the game they dont actually know anything about? and have never played?
Did i meantion theve never played it?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
You do know that there TOR is in closed beta testing, right? There are people out there who have actually played the game and have an actual feel and understanding on how it works.
I see people use this "no one has played the game" excuse all the time. As someone who has played the game, all I can do is shake my head at the ignorance.
This, as i attempted to point out anyone can say anything and then say because no one can predict the future and be accurate. This is was JW did, nothing more. However, he targeted people giving their opinions of the game when he himself provides nothing more than that. Kettle meet pot be black.
For a fact huh, lets see what other for fact comments i can make rq.
I know for fact: that only one in 20 wow players will even try swtor. (PS i don't knwo these things im just makign up BS like Droini here, but i bet im closer). That had you subcribed at $15 monthly when wow first came out and never cancelled the sub, the max cost you would have paid with expantiosn cost is $1780 , Far shy if $6k (Facts seem to be a weak point with you droini). Rouges are the only broked pve toons atm.
For the record I FEEL THAT Swtor could use more of wow in it. It seems weak as a mmorpg atm to me. (And i feel wow is a tad weak also, but has been around for so long that it has a lot of content).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This was a masterpiece of an article. Every post conveys the emotions that it brought out.
I completely agree with everything that was said. In addition, I will be buying this game no matter what happens between now and then. I will be buying it for the same reason I saw Avatar in theatre. Hopefully SWTOR will not be like Avatar. Loved by most, hated by me.
I Have 70's and a few 80's on 6 servers and Have done some Poll's Where I have gotten Higher numbers then 10% but if u take the 6 server into the number of total servers. U will get a round about number which is still a little higher then 10%. U have to take into account for PvP servers have more Die hard ppl who don't want to start over after putting there life into there toon. A few more Factors. As for u thinking that the Majority of WoW subs are Happy u are so off. The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. They done said they will go F2P if they lose to many sub's.
WoW is a Dying Beast. They need to make a WoW2 or just make it F2P and go on with a new IP. The Life spin of WoW is running out. I know it's like SWG u got ppl who put there life into 1 Toon and are so afraid to start over. Guess what Game's die and WoW is getting there. They had a Great run but u don't milk a cow dry and keep it around for looks
U must have never Heard of MMoers that have 2 to 3 sub's. Now SWG u almost had to have 2-4 sub's to get everything out it. WoW 2 sub's is good. All the CE and all the Digtial Downloads so u could play at midnight before u could pick up CE at 8 am. Guess all this is unheard of . No because I know a lot of people who do this. Plus if u talk about these ppl who are afraid to leave. They got all the loot cards which is Thousand's of dollars. I Know it cost me at least 150 till I got the turtle mount Loot Card.
People are still playing EverQuest. I seriously doubt that WoW will be dieing anytime soon. Yes it will lose subs as all MMO's do over time. But I feel the only way WoW will close down or die as you say is if Blizzard closes it due to having something new come out. Which again would make no sense for them to close it down. Even if there subs went down to 500k I think they would keep it running. I think it will be many years to come before WoW gets that low. EvE only has about 350k subs and its doing well.
The thing I find most amusing is that way back in 1999 when I quit EQ the first time I had friends telling me that EQ wasn't gonna last 2 more years after I quit. Lol
Actually the one MMO I do feel may have a big impact (and I really hope they hit a homerun.) on other MMO's is Guild Wars 2. If these guys make a great MMO, that has alot of content and good PvP. Then don't charge monthly subs, it will make a hard case for people to continue paying the subs for their current MMO. I really do hope the game is as good as hype is for it. I think all these MMO's are robbing us.
Is this too hard to understand? He's referring to the forums in this article. In fewer words it says chill the **** out, and stop posting the same BS over and over in every thread. I'm pretty sure if he wanted to say just that he would have, but he was writing an article, which means he had to say that in a lot more words.
Of course in doing so there's a risk that for some the point would be lost. As they only read up to a certain point, see something they don't like, then fly off the handle.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
OK i'm gonna be very rude but i don't care.
i understand why the guy making this article is pissed, because customer are basically very rude now when it come to mmo gaming, and the ambiance overall in the mmo world is really hard, but then again the industry is for something in this situation.
The problem with star war is that what costumers are expecting is excatly what you are not doing of it. Now if lucas gave his name to biowaer because its "The" mmo company, then its his fault. He should have known better than anyone else than star wars is the symbol of inovation, star conquer, and sand box, just like 99% of the custoumer is expecting it to be. So next time maybe find a company that can deliver what star war is the symbol. Now i thinq everyone know start war name is now nothing else than a cash cow, and the last produst are nothing els. But for the customers, when you say "stars war" it trigger the first film symbols, and not the shit he is making now. This mean inovation, space conquer, and sand box"... Now you can think its something the costumers are telling you something esle, its you who should listen to them by respect. Not us who should listen to you...
sorry for my bad english, and i was talking to lucas, not bioware
How is Star Wars a symbol of the Sandbox? Star wars could be a structured story based experience, that is after all what movies are. It could also be an expanded simulation of a galaxy. The lore is deep enough to allow that sure, that deosn't mean it HAS to be presented in such a way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Essentially, what I gathered from this post is "Bioware has done X before, don't expect Y". You say "If you’re saying this already, I’m sorry, but you’re only guessing", but so are you. Almost everything here is a guess. Must be a slow day.
No it's more like saying (only in reference to this point). Bioware has stated this is a guided experience, devoted to story. Which means don't expect a game like SWG. Not much guess work involved when the developers have stated as much.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Things SWTOR Isn't
- Innovative
- Different
- Unique
- A game where design choices are being made by successful heavy hitters in the MMO genre
- A space game
- An exploration game
- A sandbox
- A game where a player will feel unique in their class
- A game where a player will feel unique in their armor
- A game where a player will feel unique with anything besides RP'ability
- A graphically beautiful game
This probably sums up what most of the troll or whine posts would come up with. Don't get me wrong I have hope for the game and I am sure with all the money being put into it this will be a solid title for at least a month or two and well worth the box price.
Well you've got to write in a manner that represents your readers in some way. The sad part is this is the crap that this site has come to represent. Not to say the article is crap as I agree with the overall message. I'm just saying, you can't say this doesn't give a glimpse at the stuff that gets posted here daily.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson