1) Right off the top i wanna say, I am a huge SW fan. And I was a deticated SWG player (pre-cu). I will not even waste a nickel on a subscription to SWTOR. Even as a SW fan...no information released on this game even looks remotly interesting/unique. If anything it looks worse and more boring than a MMO more than 7 years old (swg-precu) and even some free MMOs that have come recently.
2) As the article pretty much points out...it looks like just another WOW clone. Replace magic with force, etc..etc...etc.
- Will not be a game changer if this is the case. People will more than likly not leave WoW very long to try this game (see below for explaination).
3) The "WoW" game model is not a "tried and true" model as designers, devs, investors, and others beleive. WoW did well because it was the first main stream to use that model. Games that clone it fail because its trying to copy success but fails to realize WoW players have already spent years playing, and will not leave for a new game that is exactly the same with just different skins/bells/whistles. Its been years of people attempting WoW clones and realitivly failing miserably because they are not offering anything better/new. Thats the failure of the industry. Seriously, there are tons of WoW players that want to leave, but they won't leave for just another version of WoW. It has to be new. In every MMO early start up I have seen tons come try, and leave saying..."well...i will just go back to *insert game tittle*"
4) *Opinion* Its more than likly SWTOR will start with a massive subsciption base, but will rapidly dwindle within 3-6 months, ending with die-hard SW/BW fans, new gamers, etc... (ie any other branded mmo who has attempted to clone WoW). Even money says it ends up lower-middle of the road mmo like LOR, Connan, etc. Not a dismal failure, but nothing close to an epic success.
5) A genre changing game for MMOs will most likly stem from indie devs. Even lacking the numbers, financials, experience...they will be the ones who still have a creative lust, and actual passion for what they are trying to accomplish that the industry hasn't already beaten out of them. Ahhh...whats the word I am looking for here...ah yes...creative integrity.
6) Its always has been and will be pointless to try to point this out to people.
*Note - I only use WoW so much as an example because its mentioned in the article and is the "big gun" still. I personally hate the game with a passion.*
I do agree with your implications that the game will at best be a mediocre title. Ideally Bioware should have called it KotoR: Online and dispelled practically every rumour flying around out there in one fell swoop. I've been a fan of Bioware games for a long time and doubt they have what it takes to convert their prowess with offline titles to the online format. SquareEnix are a prime example of how a brilliant developer can fail miserably to transfer their success from one genre to another. They simply lack the experience with handling continued customer support that multiplayer titles demand and it will show. For once, I hope I'm wrong, but it would be a first.
WoW has been terribly dluted, watered down to the max. The patch they put in is a strong indication of the way they've changed the entire game, ala NGE. With this said, Republic has a great shot at pulling in many fans from that cheapo game called wow. It's like they're putting in everything so you as aplayer don't have to do anything. Even the spells light up telling you when to click them. What garbage!
The blogger posted you can't say if this game will fail being it's way too early. And what happens next? These people here do just that. Reading comprehension must not be their strength.
One more thing i concluded from this posting/article is that some ppl are really worried about this game coming out witch is very nice to know. Peace .
"Things SWTOR isn't". Oh the irony, that indeed THIS is THE defining moment of SWTOR: a list of things which it is NOT.
And to who is this the defining moment of SWTOR? You who have made it clear from posts and letters that you don't like the game? Well I suggest you go with that but please when SWTOR does come out don't tell us what you think, I would much rather think you have conviction and didn't play a game you obviously knew you wouldn't like instead of realizing upon your review that your posts are nothing but worthless talk.
Errm. This article? I mean: that IS what the OP's text is about, ja ne?
We know a ton of things which SWTOR is NOT. But what DO we know? Pray tell? It has story. And? *looks expectantly*
And apparently I am not the only one thinking the info what SWTOR is, is meager, bringing Mr. Bitton as witness:
Quote: "What’s odd is the fact that while the above sounds fairly substantial, the reveals have been somewhat piecemeal and we still don’t know a whole lot about the game. Bioware has been more and more willing to discuss the story aspects of the game in greater detail, but the real meat and potatoes, the basic MMO features of the game are still mostly a mystery. Ask yourselves this: can you name a single stand-out feature that Star Wars: The Old Republic will have that is not related to the game’s storyline? This isn’t to say that such features don’t exist, but for whatever reason, Bioware is simply not talking about them, not yet anyway."
Edit: I said I hate SWTOR where exactly? At least my world is not black & white as if one can only either be a hater or a fanboi. In my perception I can see shades of grey, loving some parts and hating others about the same thing. It is called flexible thinking. Suggestion: we all let this speculation who is a hater and who is a fanboi rest. I don't accuse you as blind fanboi and in turn you don't accuse me as blind hater. What you say?
(Hey *I* didn't report you this time.)
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I gave up on this game a long time ago. I just don't see what all the hype is about.
Thats the problem there is NO HYPE , for first time , there is not really a HYPE , thats what getting people upset.
1 its not a sandbox model , so its a thempark , people most negative about that issue .
Is cause there is no strong sandbox model out there anymore , and sand box models are dying .
Cause not many new people to play sandbox models . and sandbox people are scattered into multiple mmo´s
2 Its a wow clone .
WoW clone means appeals to a wide audience , target market is not small special groups .
So its mass marketing target , not individual based targeting . and offcourse easy to play .
3 Low source of information for lovers and haters to fight eachother .
Infact the project is so damn secret , that probaly they only hire beta tester for 1 section dump them , and hire another group for another section , nobody really have a true idea how everything fits together .
Even now a lot of MMO features that some companies would be boosting about , they haven´t confirmed or denied .
Errm. This article? I mean: that IS what the OP's text is about, ja ne?
We know a ton of things which SWTOR is NOT. But what DO we know? Pray tell? It has story. And? *looks expectantly*
And apparently I am not the only one thinking the info what SWTOR is, is meager, bringing Mr. Bitton as witness:
Mr Bitton is one voice, Mr Wood is another, it's kind of ironic if you're so willing to accept one person's opinion and dismiss the other person's, doesn't that make you biased - no stop, don't answer that
Besides, I wouldn't put all your weight and trust into Bitton's comments and opinion articles, I noticed I had to correct him or fill him in several times due to his being misinformed: he's an ok guy, but slightly biased towards the SWG Pre-NGE kind of view and frowningly lacking in his indepth knowledge regarding SW:TOR.
As the saying goes, 'in the multitude of counselors wisdom arises', so I'd broaden your perception to get a better picture if I were you. That is, if that's what you're looking for instead of just a comfortable echo of your own feelings and perceptions about SW:TOR. Frankly, I find it very disappointing of you that you still maintain that story is all there is that is known about SW:TOR. How many times haven't you encountered this information thread by now? It shows a very selective perception from your side. Tsk
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will have to say that this post has made be consider a ree trial for SW:TOR if they offer it.
I expect it to have a great story based leveling system. With Bioware's bast products I would expect no less.
The PvP looks like it could be fun, but I do not play MMORPGs to PvP. There are better games for that if all I wanted to do was PvP.
The rail based space part of SW:TOR is not true space combat, but for a story driven game it matches what we see in the movies. All the Space centered scenes in the movies ant Television show are going to a specific location to take care of a specific task. This is someting what they will be recreating properly in the format that they will be using.
My fear for the game was that they would have a repeat of STO, where people were having fun leveling and when they got to end game looking around and saying what now.
If they have been seriously looking at other games, especially WoW, they understand that they have to have a plan and schedule to add new and shallenging story based content at a consistant rate.
The lack of this being mentioned in any of the official comments had me worried. I was not looking for a schedule, just an acknowledgement that they understood that they needed to do that and were planning appropriately. What made me more afraid was when they started talking more about players based content. While that is a great feature of the game, we have also seen that very often it is not a viable replacement for story arcs from the game developers. A nice suppliment but not a replacement.
I agree with MMartian, end game is critical to a MMO's success. All the other details that have been hashed over by the hundreds of posts are irrelevant. No MMO is going to please everyone and I personally am so sick of these 500 word rants about the shortcomings of MMO developers. If you can do it better, go to school, learn the craft, and try to find investors willing to put up millions of dollars to add another title to, IMO one of the most fickle and volatile genres of gaming today. Let me know how that works out for you.
I agree with the prior post, you can't speculate on whether the game is going to be a failure, a success, or a wow killer until you actually get to play the game for a decent period of time. To date, we have not even seen any information on crafting yet, which can really help or hinder in the retention of players.
Bioware games are great examples of storytelling at it's best. I have enjoyed many of their games. The hurdle they will have to circumvent is the fact that all their RPG games do have an ending. MMO's can't unless of course you have an endless supply of players that only play for a few months.
So far none of the information released so far has dealt with this aspect of the game. The question of course is can Bioware write enough end game material to keep people playing?
Lately all the MMO that have been released show a big initial surge in players followed by a rapid decline. Can Bioware break that trend? Going to be an interesting next year.
OK, we all know that TOR is and aint, but the question is : What are the $50 million being used for then?
-Voice acting? Is that so costly?
-Good story? Did previous BW games cost this much for story?
-Online? hmmm..... didn't see much of the online features other mmos didnt have yet.
-Good graphics? Please no... don't wanna argue about this.
I really want to see a good mmo with this kind of budget, but these guys might diverge so much from the main point of a MMO and flop it out. Take a look at APB, so much time to develop the customization for character, clothes, cars, music and all, but the game mechanics itself was bland.
Guess we'll have to wait to see what BW really have in store for us.
OK, we all know that TOR is and aint, but the question is : What are the $50 million being used for then?
-Voice acting? Is that so costly?
-Good story? Did previous BW games cost this much for story?
-Online? hmmm..... didn't see much of the online features other mmos didnt have yet.
-Good graphics? Please no... don't wanna argue about this.
I really want to see a good mmo with this kind of budget, but these guys might diverge so much from the main point of a MMO and flop it out. Take a look at APB, so much time to develop the customization for character, clothes, cars, music and all, but the game mechanics itself was bland.
Guess we'll have to wait to see what BW really have in store for us.
it cost $500,000 just for the game engine they are using.. HERO ENGINE... developers are not cheap... neither is the building they work in.. the computers, software and software licensing for all the artwork programs like 3ds max or maya... C++ studio... equipment to record quality sound... not to mention the music and the musicians...
takes a lot to make a game nowadays. expectations of players have been raising the bar since day 1.
as for the space combat.. who is to say they cant change it later.. actually space combat for SWG did change from when it was launched. they made some changes to improve it. I think if they find the space combat didnt work. I would think after they have money rolling in it wouldnt be hard for them to rework space combat... its one of those wait and see things.
as for the article... I disagree on some things and agree on others. As for sandbox being the thing of the past.. i think you are wrong. So many are doing theme park I think thats the problem nowadays. People are running thru so much content so fast in these MMOs they get bored and finish with it. Theme parks have an ending.. where Sandbox leaves things for you to choose and do all the time. Which includes you making stuff up for yourself and friends. I think a lot of poepe confuse a good and bad sandbox. There have been some really bad sandboxes but some pretty darn good ones that can keep you busy for years without needing an EXPANSION. with theme parks you need expansions because of its design.
of course this is an opinion.. im entitled to it. as you are not required to agree with it.
last thing i want to mention... it does NOT have to be a million subs to be a successful game. Before WOW. a successful MMO was around 200k to 300k...
in order for one to continue and survive and still pay the bills and make a little cash... i would say anywhere around 50k to 100k, maybe even less.
too many NEW gamers who joined the MMO genre seem to think MMOs need to be more like a single player game...
which is why blizzard made the theme park style. start from one end of the game and get to the otherside to finish. then you get hopping rabbits all over the capital cities because they are bored wtih nothing to do... then they pump out an expansion..people race to the top again.. rinse repeat.
Sandboxes added expansions but they werent needed to enjoy the game. You didnt have to buy it. but for more content you did. to help support the game company... you did. other then that... sandbox still has a loyal fanbase... lots still interested in it.
despite what others say... a good sandbox MMO can most likely field a 200k to 300k sub base if they pumped one out easily.
You're right. I was way too hyped about this game, dreaming of an open ended sandbox space explorer with fast paced space & land action, but thats just not Bioware. To be honest, I've never reaally liked Bioware's style, always felt penned in & hurded to the next quest point. I guess I'll just have to pass on this game now & save myself the heartbreak when it slams me with mediocrity.
i don't get why people say it's gonna be a wow killer i mean this is why games now-a-days are horrible, because people try and over hype it. People try to make it sound like you will go blind if you look at it's god like perfection then when it doesn't shoot lazor beams out of the cd or something then blame the developers for it like it is there fault that it is over hyped and or not what they expected
If it is a big hit and sells millions of subs. This style of MMO will be copied a million times over.
you know... he's not saying that there's no chance of it being successful... he's saying there's no way to tell right now either way. You yourself say it.... "If it is a big hit..."
I'm one of those people who realized early that SW:TOR was not going to be the game for me. Mostly because it is being made by Bioware and as the OP said, it wouldn't make much sense to expect them to do something different than Dragon Age/KOTOR in mmo form. They make quality games, but not the type of games that I enjoy (many others do).
For a while I was one of those negative people because I saw no other alternative in sight. I think for many people who aren't just pure trolls all the negative talk is a plea to the MMO gods to give them the game they are looking. When we don't find that game we turn to one that has promise and hold out hope that there are enough other people who feel the same way that just maybe we can influence it in the direction we want it to go. This is generally a futile effort, but for many people there isn't a much better option.
Fortunately when I attended E3 this year I found out about Rift and while I didn't know much about it yet I soon found it to be the game I am looking for. No longer a drift in the MMO sea without land in sight I've done what the OP suggests and turned my back on SW:TOR with my sights on Rift.
SW:TOR and Rift will appeal to different, but similar, audiences. That's a GOOD thing. The best thing that could happen to the MMO genre is for both SW:TOR and Rift to succeed in 2011 and beyond. It would show that the MMO industry is a viable market for investors and it would prove (through cold hard cash) that there is more than one viable route.
Terrible writing here... i wish i didnt read it... its just another persons oppinons.... i might as well just go to the forums and read everones complaining jiberish there... even this writer some how contradicted them self in one article... i hope some one saves this article so they can tear it apart after the game is actually released...
I would love to take you seriously however it is difficult when your comment on the “Terrible writing” is comprised of 10+ grammatical, spelling and sentence structure errors.
Comments
Ugh...where to start...
1) Right off the top i wanna say, I am a huge SW fan. And I was a deticated SWG player (pre-cu). I will not even waste a nickel on a subscription to SWTOR. Even as a SW fan...no information released on this game even looks remotly interesting/unique. If anything it looks worse and more boring than a MMO more than 7 years old (swg-precu) and even some free MMOs that have come recently.
2) As the article pretty much points out...it looks like just another WOW clone. Replace magic with force, etc..etc...etc.
- Will not be a game changer if this is the case. People will more than likly not leave WoW very long to try this game (see below for explaination).
3) The "WoW" game model is not a "tried and true" model as designers, devs, investors, and others beleive. WoW did well because it was the first main stream to use that model. Games that clone it fail because its trying to copy success but fails to realize WoW players have already spent years playing, and will not leave for a new game that is exactly the same with just different skins/bells/whistles. Its been years of people attempting WoW clones and realitivly failing miserably because they are not offering anything better/new. Thats the failure of the industry. Seriously, there are tons of WoW players that want to leave, but they won't leave for just another version of WoW. It has to be new. In every MMO early start up I have seen tons come try, and leave saying..."well...i will just go back to *insert game tittle*"
4) *Opinion* Its more than likly SWTOR will start with a massive subsciption base, but will rapidly dwindle within 3-6 months, ending with die-hard SW/BW fans, new gamers, etc... (ie any other branded mmo who has attempted to clone WoW). Even money says it ends up lower-middle of the road mmo like LOR, Connan, etc. Not a dismal failure, but nothing close to an epic success.
5) A genre changing game for MMOs will most likly stem from indie devs. Even lacking the numbers, financials, experience...they will be the ones who still have a creative lust, and actual passion for what they are trying to accomplish that the industry hasn't already beaten out of them. Ahhh...whats the word I am looking for here...ah yes...creative integrity.
6) Its always has been and will be pointless to try to point this out to people.
*Note - I only use WoW so much as an example because its mentioned in the article and is the "big gun" still. I personally hate the game with a passion.*
~I am Many~
Dear Jon,
Thanks for stating the obvious.
I do agree with your implications that the game will at best be a mediocre title. Ideally Bioware should have called it KotoR: Online and dispelled practically every rumour flying around out there in one fell swoop. I've been a fan of Bioware games for a long time and doubt they have what it takes to convert their prowess with offline titles to the online format. SquareEnix are a prime example of how a brilliant developer can fail miserably to transfer their success from one genre to another. They simply lack the experience with handling continued customer support that multiplayer titles demand and it will show. For once, I hope I'm wrong, but it would be a first.
"Things SWTOR isn't". Oh the irony, that indeed THIS is THE defining moment of SWTOR: a list of things which it is NOT.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
WoW has been terribly dluted, watered down to the max. The patch they put in is a strong indication of the way they've changed the entire game, ala NGE. With this said, Republic has a great shot at pulling in many fans from that cheapo game called wow. It's like they're putting in everything so you as aplayer don't have to do anything. Even the spells light up telling you when to click them. What garbage!
The blogger posted you can't say if this game will fail being it's way too early. And what happens next? These people here do just that. Reading comprehension must not be their strength.
One more thing i concluded from this posting/article is that some ppl are really worried about this game coming out witch is very nice to know. Peace
.
Errm. This article? I mean: that IS what the OP's text is about, ja ne?
We know a ton of things which SWTOR is NOT. But what DO we know? Pray tell? It has story. And? *looks expectantly*
And apparently I am not the only one thinking the info what SWTOR is, is meager, bringing Mr. Bitton as witness:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/4646/page/1
Quote: "What’s odd is the fact that while the above sounds fairly substantial, the reveals have been somewhat piecemeal and we still don’t know a whole lot about the game. Bioware has been more and more willing to discuss the story aspects of the game in greater detail, but the real meat and potatoes, the basic MMO features of the game are still mostly a mystery. Ask yourselves this: can you name a single stand-out feature that Star Wars: The Old Republic will have that is not related to the game’s storyline? This isn’t to say that such features don’t exist, but for whatever reason, Bioware is simply not talking about them, not yet anyway."
Edit: I said I hate SWTOR where exactly? At least my world is not black & white as if one can only either be a hater or a fanboi. In my perception I can see shades of grey, loving some parts and hating others about the same thing. It is called flexible thinking. Suggestion: we all let this speculation who is a hater and who is a fanboi rest. I don't accuse you as blind fanboi and in turn you don't accuse me as blind hater. What you say?
(Hey *I* didn't report you this time.)
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I gave up on this game a long time ago. I just don't see what all the hype is about.
Thats the problem there is NO HYPE , for first time , there is not really a HYPE , thats what getting people upset.
1 its not a sandbox model , so its a thempark , people most negative about that issue .
Is cause there is no strong sandbox model out there anymore , and sand box models are dying .
Cause not many new people to play sandbox models . and sandbox people are scattered into multiple mmo´s
2 Its a wow clone .
WoW clone means appeals to a wide audience , target market is not small special groups .
So its mass marketing target , not individual based targeting . and offcourse easy to play .
3 Low source of information for lovers and haters to fight eachother .
Infact the project is so damn secret , that probaly they only hire beta tester for 1 section dump them , and hire another group for another section , nobody really have a true idea how everything fits together .
Even now a lot of MMO features that some companies would be boosting about , they haven´t confirmed or denied .
Thats it .
Mr Bitton is one voice, Mr Wood is another, it's kind of ironic if you're so willing to accept one person's opinion and dismiss the other person's, doesn't that make you biased - no stop, don't answer that
Besides, I wouldn't put all your weight and trust into Bitton's comments and opinion articles, I noticed I had to correct him or fill him in several times due to his being misinformed: he's an ok guy, but slightly biased towards the SWG Pre-NGE kind of view and frowningly lacking in his indepth knowledge regarding SW:TOR.
As the saying goes, 'in the multitude of counselors wisdom arises', so I'd broaden your perception to get a better picture if I were you. That is, if that's what you're looking for instead of just a comfortable echo of your own feelings and perceptions about SW:TOR. Frankly, I find it very disappointing of you that you still maintain that story is all there is that is known about SW:TOR. How many times haven't you encountered this information thread by now? It shows a very selective perception from your side. Tsk
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will have to say that this post has made be consider a ree trial for SW:TOR if they offer it.
I expect it to have a great story based leveling system. With Bioware's bast products I would expect no less.
The PvP looks like it could be fun, but I do not play MMORPGs to PvP. There are better games for that if all I wanted to do was PvP.
The rail based space part of SW:TOR is not true space combat, but for a story driven game it matches what we see in the movies. All the Space centered scenes in the movies ant Television show are going to a specific location to take care of a specific task. This is someting what they will be recreating properly in the format that they will be using.
My fear for the game was that they would have a repeat of STO, where people were having fun leveling and when they got to end game looking around and saying what now.
If they have been seriously looking at other games, especially WoW, they understand that they have to have a plan and schedule to add new and shallenging story based content at a consistant rate.
The lack of this being mentioned in any of the official comments had me worried. I was not looking for a schedule, just an acknowledgement that they understood that they needed to do that and were planning appropriately. What made me more afraid was when they started talking more about players based content. While that is a great feature of the game, we have also seen that very often it is not a viable replacement for story arcs from the game developers. A nice suppliment but not a replacement.
I agree with MMartian, end game is critical to a MMO's success. All the other details that have been hashed over by the hundreds of posts are irrelevant. No MMO is going to please everyone and I personally am so sick of these 500 word rants about the shortcomings of MMO developers. If you can do it better, go to school, learn the craft, and try to find investors willing to put up millions of dollars to add another title to, IMO one of the most fickle and volatile genres of gaming today. Let me know how that works out for you.
ditto.
I agree with the prior post, you can't speculate on whether the game is going to be a failure, a success, or a wow killer until you actually get to play the game for a decent period of time. To date, we have not even seen any information on crafting yet, which can really help or hinder in the retention of players.
Bioware games are great examples of storytelling at it's best. I have enjoyed many of their games. The hurdle they will have to circumvent is the fact that all their RPG games do have an ending. MMO's can't unless of course you have an endless supply of players that only play for a few months.
So far none of the information released so far has dealt with this aspect of the game. The question of course is can Bioware write enough end game material to keep people playing?
Lately all the MMO that have been released show a big initial surge in players followed by a rapid decline. Can Bioware break that trend? Going to be an interesting next year.
OK, we all know that TOR is and aint, but the question is : What are the $50 million being used for then?
-Voice acting? Is that so costly?
-Good story? Did previous BW games cost this much for story?
-Online? hmmm..... didn't see much of the online features other mmos didnt have yet.
-Good graphics? Please no... don't wanna argue about this.
I really want to see a good mmo with this kind of budget, but these guys might diverge so much from the main point of a MMO and flop it out. Take a look at APB, so much time to develop the customization for character, clothes, cars, music and all, but the game mechanics itself was bland.
Guess we'll have to wait to see what BW really have in store for us.
it cost $500,000 just for the game engine they are using.. HERO ENGINE... developers are not cheap... neither is the building they work in.. the computers, software and software licensing for all the artwork programs like 3ds max or maya... C++ studio... equipment to record quality sound... not to mention the music and the musicians...
takes a lot to make a game nowadays. expectations of players have been raising the bar since day 1.
as for the space combat.. who is to say they cant change it later.. actually space combat for SWG did change from when it was launched. they made some changes to improve it. I think if they find the space combat didnt work. I would think after they have money rolling in it wouldnt be hard for them to rework space combat... its one of those wait and see things.
as for the article... I disagree on some things and agree on others. As for sandbox being the thing of the past.. i think you are wrong. So many are doing theme park I think thats the problem nowadays. People are running thru so much content so fast in these MMOs they get bored and finish with it. Theme parks have an ending.. where Sandbox leaves things for you to choose and do all the time. Which includes you making stuff up for yourself and friends. I think a lot of poepe confuse a good and bad sandbox. There have been some really bad sandboxes but some pretty darn good ones that can keep you busy for years without needing an EXPANSION. with theme parks you need expansions because of its design.
of course this is an opinion.. im entitled to it. as you are not required to agree with it.
last thing i want to mention... it does NOT have to be a million subs to be a successful game. Before WOW. a successful MMO was around 200k to 300k...
in order for one to continue and survive and still pay the bills and make a little cash... i would say anywhere around 50k to 100k, maybe even less.
too many NEW gamers who joined the MMO genre seem to think MMOs need to be more like a single player game...
which is why blizzard made the theme park style. start from one end of the game and get to the otherside to finish. then you get hopping rabbits all over the capital cities because they are bored wtih nothing to do... then they pump out an expansion..people race to the top again.. rinse repeat.
Sandboxes added expansions but they werent needed to enjoy the game. You didnt have to buy it. but for more content you did. to help support the game company... you did. other then that... sandbox still has a loyal fanbase... lots still interested in it.
despite what others say... a good sandbox MMO can most likely field a 200k to 300k sub base if they pumped one out easily.
The more and more I see of this games structure and design, the more it reminds me Tabula Rasa only DX11 with more Quests and Story Themes..
You're right. I was way too hyped about this game, dreaming of an open ended sandbox space explorer with fast paced space & land action, but thats just not Bioware. To be honest, I've never reaally liked Bioware's style, always felt penned in & hurded to the next quest point. I guess I'll just have to pass on this game now & save myself the heartbreak when it slams me with mediocrity.
Ok, for all the nonsense on this thread repeating the 2011 spring release read this article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-05-bioware-doctors-talk-ea-louse-mass-effect-3-swtor-interview
I still think 2011 is very shaky at best, my guess the earliest we will see this game is early 2012.
i don't get why people say it's gonna be a wow killer i mean this is why games now-a-days are horrible, because people try and over hype it. People try to make it sound like you will go blind if you look at it's god like perfection then when it doesn't shoot lazor beams out of the cd or something then blame the developers for it like it is there fault that it is over hyped and or not what they expected
you know... he's not saying that there's no chance of it being successful... he's saying there's no way to tell right now either way. You yourself say it.... "If it is a big hit..."
I'm one of those people who realized early that SW:TOR was not going to be the game for me. Mostly because it is being made by Bioware and as the OP said, it wouldn't make much sense to expect them to do something different than Dragon Age/KOTOR in mmo form. They make quality games, but not the type of games that I enjoy (many others do).
For a while I was one of those negative people because I saw no other alternative in sight. I think for many people who aren't just pure trolls all the negative talk is a plea to the MMO gods to give them the game they are looking. When we don't find that game we turn to one that has promise and hold out hope that there are enough other people who feel the same way that just maybe we can influence it in the direction we want it to go. This is generally a futile effort, but for many people there isn't a much better option.
Fortunately when I attended E3 this year I found out about Rift and while I didn't know much about it yet I soon found it to be the game I am looking for. No longer a drift in the MMO sea without land in sight I've done what the OP suggests and turned my back on SW:TOR with my sights on Rift.
SW:TOR and Rift will appeal to different, but similar, audiences. That's a GOOD thing. The best thing that could happen to the MMO genre is for both SW:TOR and Rift to succeed in 2011 and beyond. It would show that the MMO industry is a viable market for investors and it would prove (through cold hard cash) that there is more than one viable route.
I would love to take you seriously however it is difficult when your comment on the “Terrible writing” is comprised of 10+ grammatical, spelling and sentence structure errors.
For the Thrill of the Game