Originally posted by BuniontToes No it removes protection from famrers using rial accounts and protects new players from othr factions. there is no reason for vets to hunt these dungeons as goblins aren't profitable much at all.
The fact you listed the reasons why the protection period was reduced does not make it less fail.
No it removes protection from famrers using rial accounts and protects new players from othr factions. there is no reason for vets to hunt these dungeons as goblins aren't profitable much at all.
The fact you listed the reasons why the protection period was reduced does not make it less fail.
Tasos said it diluted the darkfall experience. He is right.
I played DF during beta. What killed the game for me wasn't the ganking (it was annoying, but expected) but it was the fact that the game seemed "empty" to me.
The game had tremendous backstory, yet the world was void of such lore. I like to explore, but eventually gave it up in this game because while there was stuff to find, none of it seemed to have any information attuned to it.
I remember following a river into a hillside cave. In side was an underground cavern, flooded, with a tomb in it. There were some mobs, as well as some cages that might have held prisoners (woe to them who couldn't breathe underwater). I thought to myself, WOW this is awsome! It peaked my interest and I wanted to know a bit more. And then my heart sank. I knew that nowhere in this game was there ANY POSSIBLE WAY to find out more about this area. There were no quests, there were no libraries, no npc's etc. This place simply existed, and there was no lore to provide it any details.
I found a few other places like that in the game. I thought I had stumbled upon a new NPC city, only to find out it was a mob spawn. Of course, there was no way to find out anything about it. It was just a tree city full of people who would kill you.
if Darkfall introduced more lore into their game, quests, books, libraries, etc that didn't take away from the sandbox feel, I would be drawn back in quickly. As it was, it seemed that they had set up an elaborate set piece designed SOLELY for guild warfare...
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW. They can even wear the same armor in DFO. But no generally someone who has played for 3 weeks can't beat someone who has played for a year. Would you really expect otherwise? People call it a grind and whine and quit. I for one have enjoyed my 7 months on Darkfall.
Originally posted by Oreseeker Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW.
Except WoW ain't that dumb to force L1 into PVP with L80 which makes your 'point' moot...
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW. They can even wear the same armor in DFO. But no generally someone who has played for 3 weeks can't beat someone who has played for a year. Would you really expect otherwise? People call it a grind and whine and quit. I for one have enjoyed my 7 months on Darkfall.
No, its not because DF is skill based, but because it is FFA open world PvP and is not tier PvP where people of approximate level (or skill level) engage in more or less fair PvP. In DF, a vet with years of game time can and does engage noobs 1 day old. Most people that play games like a challenge, but not impossible odds. Therefore they assume that the noob has a chance against a vet.
If you wan't to keep the current noob-vet difference, then what DF needs to do is to tier PvP levels. Make it so a vet cannot kill a noob without noob's permission or at least punish him severely for griefing (not applicable in sieging or siege defences).
If you want to keep the current FFA PvP model though, then make it so noobs have a chance to fight back. Vets would still have an advtange with the utility they have, better weapons, better armor, more spells and skills, more mounts. but they wouldn't go afk in the mid of 4-5 noobs attacking them and surviving it.
Even better reason to try darkfall would be if AV created a PvE server where PvP is forbidden everywhere except in designated PvP spots (arenas), by being an outlaw (murdering own people), or by participating in a siege (attacking or defending it). This way, a casual PvE crowd that is not so much interested in PvP can avoid PvP altogether. This would bring in a lot of PvE junkies like myself and would give the necessary funds to improve both PvE and PvP aspects of DF. All sides are happy, me thinks. No?
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW.
Except WoW ain't that dumb to force L1 into PVP with L80 which makes your 'point' moot...
Some of us enjoy the freedom that Darkfall allows. I personally can't stand restrictive games like WOW. You may call it dumb, I simply call it a difference of taste.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Cecropia Some of us enjoy the freedom that Darkfall allows. I personally can't stand restrictive games like WOW. You may call it dumb, I simply call it a difference of taste.
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW. They can even wear the same armor in DFO. But no generally someone who has played for 3 weeks can't beat someone who has played for a year. Would you really expect otherwise? People call it a grind and whine and quit. I for one have enjoyed my 7 months on Darkfall.
No, its not because DF is skill based, but because it is FFA open world PvP and is not tier PvP where people of approximate level (or skill level) engage in more or less fair PvP. In DF, a vet with years of game time can and does engage noobs 1 day old. Most people that play games like a challenge, but not impossible odds. Therefore they assume that the noob has a chance against a vet.
If you wan't to keep the current noob-vet difference, then what DF needs to do is to tier PvP levels. Make it so a vet cannot kill a noob without noob's permission or at least punish him severely for griefing (not applicable in sieging or siege defences).
If you want to keep the current FFA PvP model though, then make it so noobs have a chance to fight back. Vets would still have an advtange with the utility they have, better weapons, better armor, more spells and skills, more mounts. but they wouldn't go afk in the mid of 4-5 noobs attacking them and surviving it.
Even better reason to try darkfall would be if AV created a PvE server where PvP is forbidden everywhere except in designated PvP spots (arenas), by being an outlaw (murdering own people), or by participating in a siege (attacking or defending it). This way, a casual PvE crowd that is not so much interested in PvP can avoid PvP altogether. This would bring in a lot of PvE junkies like myself and would give the necessary funds to improve both PvE and PvP aspects of DF. All sides are happy, me thinks. No?
its true most people want a challenge which is exactly why vets do not spend a large amount of time sitting around hitting noobs for their leather armour.
having said that, agreed on pvp I understand and war decs I understand, wanting to randomly hunting people who want to be left alone I find to be a personality disorder and unfortuntly this fantastic game has that mechanic and it attracts many people who should be on medications.
For me personally, all other aspects of the game make up for the uninvited pvp problem
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
They reduced the newbie protection to 1 hour from 24 because they felt it was making new players too complacent and, thus, unprepared for the game once the buff wears off.
This one is damn silly reasoning.
Not at all. Having that "safety" from attack by other players for 24 in-game hours can definitely make you get comfortable and feel "safe". I noticed that too while I was playing in that 24 hour period. Of course, having played it *before* they added that as well, I know the difference.
Shadowbane did something kinda similar, only they dedicated an entire region, up to level 20, to players being safe from PKs for the same reason.. Give players a chance to learn the ropes, figure things out, develop a character they like so that when they got out into the harsh "real world" of the game, they weren't *completely* new. Of course, you could also leave the island when ever you wanted.
Over time, people were off that island within hours.
Your analogy is wrong, I am not complaining about the game being harsh or anything, I am just saying it has low pop and it will not increase if the game will follow same development as it is now.
So to fix your analogy, it would be like opening a huge vegetarian restaurant with 800 seats and then wondering why it is so empty.
That would be because the owners didn't do their research before opening the restaurant and over-estimated how much business they'd get.
I don't think anyone, including AV, has been under the delusion that they'd have a MASSIVE following with a game like DF. Certainly no one following the game (well, except for a few of the more extreme fans) ever had that expectation. People going as far back as months before launch knew it. The game is designed for a specific niche of players. PvP is a niche. Open FFA PvP with full loot is a niche of that niche. AV were limiting the population potential of DF from the time it was on the drawing board... and I'm sure they knew it.
MMOs with open, no-holds-barred FFA PvP with full loot have never been about "fair play". They've always been about "might makes right". This isn't news to anyone - except those who seem to think it should involve "fair play" in all cases, between newbs and vets.
There is a reason why majority of the restaurants serve local, international or popular cuisine.
Yes... and in the MMORPG world, they would be called World of Warcraft.... trying to cater to everyone by diluting and homogenizing the gameplay to a lowest common denominator. There are *more* than enough of those on the market already, thank you.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To say that you can't be viable in PvP from day 1 is 100% wrong - especially now that the newbie protection only lasts 1 hour instead of 24.
So, a day 1 noob with a leafblade (or goblin dropped weapon+armor) will not be 4-5 shotted by a vet with R50 weapon?
Absolutely.
You're clearly dead-set in basing *everything* on "how competitive you are against vets". Don't know what to tell you.. I don't suffer such hang-ups. If I want to go find PvP at my very newbie-like level of experience in the game, I'll go find PvP. If I get ganked by someone far higher level than me... then I get ganked. It happens. Welcome to an open PvP MMO.
Still again, what you're basically arguing for is Unreal Tournament, the MMO. Or, as was mentioned by someone else... Planetside, which is a MMOFPS, not a MMORPG.
That is not what AV designed DF to be, no matter how much some want to claim otherwise.
If you are so dead-set on restricting yourself to "equality against Vets or Nothing", all I can say is maybe you're playing the wrong game. Perhaps you should give Planetside or Unreal Tournament a spin... at least those games will give you that "Day 1 Balance Against Vets" you seek. That's not a flame. It's a sincere suggestion. A PvP MMO with meaningful progression clearly chafes with your desired playstyle. Have you given Warhammer a try?
As for the whole argument of "well a bunch of people feel this way". And? If the game not having newbies and vets on even ground from day 1 "keeps people away" then that's AV's problem to deal with. I'm not sure why people who've decided they're not going to play anyway should care.
That said, the whole argument of "Vets ganking day 1 newbs" is so exaggerated and disingenuous it's ridiculous. I played DF for about 1.5 months some time back in which I started new characters a few times to get a feel for different races. I started over again some weeks back. And I just started another new character recently. I have been a "day 1 newb" many times over. I can count the number of times I've been ganked, or even attacked, by "vets" who destroyed me on less than one hand. The vast majority of times I've been attacked has been by people of comparable skill level to me. And, yes, I've left town, yes I've traveled beyond the safety of guard towers... The way some people here describe it you'd think every time they log in they can't take two steps outside their starting town without being ganked. Sorry... just don't happen.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW. They can even wear the same armor in DFO. But no generally someone who has played for 3 weeks can't beat someone who has played for a year. Would you really expect otherwise? People call it a grind and whine and quit. I for one have enjoyed my 7 months on Darkfall.
No, its not because DF is skill based, but because it is FFA open world PvP and is not tier PvP where people of approximate level (or skill level) engage in more or less fair PvP. In DF, a vet with years of game time can and does engage noobs 1 day old. Most people that play games like a challenge, but not impossible odds. Therefore they assume that the noob has a chance against a vet.
Since when does "open world PvP" = "Fair PvP against Vets from Day 1"?
Are you trying to dictate what AV's design for DF is? Or are you merely projecting your own idea of what it *should* be in your mind, so you can then say "AV has it all wrong"?
The fault is in you seeming to want to play DF like it's Unreal Tournament or Planetside. It's not a MMOFPS. It's a MMORPG. MMORPGs, as with regular RPGs, involve character growth and progression. The longer you progress, the stronger you become, the harder you are to defeat by those weaker than you.
If you wan't to keep the current noob-vet difference, then what DF needs to do is to tier PvP levels. Make it so a vet cannot kill a noob without noob's permission or at least punish him severely for griefing (not applicable in sieging or siege defences).
Soo... you want DF to move to consensual PvP and arbitrary protection of the weak in a game geared specifically for FFA combat.
Personally I prefer and find it more inspiring to see players taking things into their own hands and becoming "defenders of the weak". I saw it a lot in Lineage 2 from around Chronicle 3 and, from what I've seen, it's starting to happen in Darkfall as well with people going to newbie areas to deal with griefers. That's awesome to me. It's *truly* player driven and AV needn't intervene with it.
If you want to keep the current FFA PvP model though, then make it so noobs have a chance to fight back. Vets would still have an advtange with the utility they have, better weapons, better armor, more spells and skills, more mounts. but they wouldn't go afk in the mid of 4-5 noobs attacking them and surviving it.
Have you tested that theory out yourself? Have you tried to take down a vet who just stood there with a group of 4 or 5 and seen that it couldn't be done? Or are you just assuming that would be the case and arguing it as fact?
Even better reason to try darkfall would be if AV created a PvE server where PvP is forbidden everywhere except in designated PvP spots (arenas), by being an outlaw (murdering own people), or by participating in a siege (attacking or defending it). This way, a casual PvE crowd that is not so much interested in PvP can avoid PvP altogether. This would bring in a lot of PvE junkies like myself and would give the necessary funds to improve both PvE and PvP aspects of DF. All sides are happy, me thinks. No?
Wow... Or should I say... WoW.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I don't see why people want to be able to compete against vets so quickly. I want to level my guy up, then compete against other people who have leveled their guy up, and may the best leveled up guy win based 80% on our skill strategy and tactics, and 20% on pre-fight choices, such as "which gear to wear?" and "which abilities and potions should I bring?".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by WSIMike That would be because the owners didn't do their research before opening the restaurant and over-estimated how much business they'd get. I don't think anyone, including AV, has been under the delusion that they'd have a MASSIVE following with a game like DF. Certainly no one following the game (well, except for a few of the more extreme fans) ever had that expectation. People going as far back as months before launch knew it. The game is designed for a specific niche of players. PvP is a niche. Open FFA PvP with full loot is a niche of that niche. AV were limiting the population potential of DF from the time it was on the drawing board... and I'm sure they knew it.
In other words, you say that AV never wanted to get more subs than they have now.
Sorry, but I am not buying that one. Darkfall is a business like any other and as such it tries to make as much money as possible.
Going non-mainstream is fine, losing subs because of that is not. That is stupid and/or failure in design.
That would be because the owners didn't do their research before opening the restaurant and over-estimated how much business they'd get.
I don't think anyone, including AV, has been under the delusion that they'd have a MASSIVE following with a game like DF. Certainly no one following the game (well, except for a few of the more extreme fans) ever had that expectation. People going as far back as months before launch knew it. The game is designed for a specific niche of players. PvP is a niche. Open FFA PvP with full loot is a niche of that niche. AV were limiting the population potential of DF from the time it was on the drawing board... and I'm sure they knew it.
In other words, you say that AV never wanted to get more subs than they have now.
Sorry, but I am not buying that one. Darkfall is a business like any other and as such it tries to make as much money as possible.
Going non-mainstream is fine, losing subs because of that is not. That is stupid and/or failure in design.
AV is doing fine. They moved into bigger offices and are hiring more people. So I would say this niche is working out pretty good for them. The game population is also growing. The pvp these last few weeks have been awesome. Anyone who has been playing recently will attest to that.
I do not know, I seem to miss the "Reasons not to try Darkfall" thread. Lets see, go to a game site and see how many players are not having a blast then balance those threads (if they are not deleted) to see the "other side" of the picture of Darkfall. It is called "research".
In other words, you say that AV never wanted to get more subs than they have now.
Sorry, but I am not buying that one. Darkfall is a business like any other and as such it tries to make as much money as possible.
Going non-mainstream is fine, losing subs because of that is not. That is stupid and/or failure in design.
Making as much money as possible is OK. Creating unsustainable business, and making changes which will be good short-term, but will kill the game long-term, is not.
Many MMOs launched with higher subscription numbers than DF, and have not survived their first 18 months (APB).
In case of DF niche means that they target group of people who played AC on Darktide server, Shadowbane, DAoC on Mordred server, and try to make best game for them. These players have really nowhere to go but to DF. After a year they look at pre-NGE SWG players, people playing UO freeshards, because their expectations are not incompatible with expectations of core audience. And there are bored EvE players - which may like something more twitch based.
What do you get by not targetting mainstream audience ? You can get away with charging 15$ a month, because you don't compete directly with F2P (EQ2, LOTRO, DDO, RoM), or games with tons of content (WoW), based on deep lore (LOTRO). You don't compete with low-level WAR PvP, which is essentially free.
You have never played the real Darkfall. All you have tried is the empty shell we have these days, and you act like an expert. Well you are not. You haven`t even tried the game when it was fun and full of competitive players.
Now mr. mmo expert, tell us what FFA FULL-LOOT PVP mmo with no safezones you have played were you need a year of leveling to be on par with the vets. Come on tell us.
Fact is there have never been full-loot hypergrinder like darkfall before. And the reason is simple, they don`t work. If new players had been given a chance to compete sooner we wouldn`t have lost 97000 of the 100000 that bought this game.
Originally posted by Azdul In case of DF niche means that they target group of people who played AC on Darktide server, Shadowbane, DAoC on Mordred server, and try to make best game for them.
That is what I am saying, targeted market is tiny, something you cannot grow upon and only way to grow on MMO market is to gain more subs. Which means opening your game to larger audience but tiny minority.
All the games you listed are pretty good example of future Darkfall is going towards, for reasons described above.
Now mr. mmo expert, tell us what FFA FULL-LOOT PVP mmo with no safezones you have played were you need a year of leveling to be on par with the vets. Come on tell us.
"Of the 40 corporations I've researched thus far, the average minimum SP requirement (this includes corps with requirements of 0 SP) is approximately 10 million skill points — and those must be focused on PvP, in nearly all cases. (,,,) What this boils down to is that your average rookie (who doesn't have fancy implants or high learning skills when he's born) will have to train nine or ten months' worth of skills just to reach that minimum requirement. More, during this time his training must be almost exclusively focused on PvP ships."
I know, it's not completely full loot. And it does have "almost safe" zones.
But after DF will get it's offline skilling, it's character development / PvP balance may be much closer to EvE's balance:
3 weeks - Ready for group PvP
3 months- Reached 90% of potential at chosen combat style. Character development slows down to crawl.
9 months - Char can't get any better in chosen combat style.
The guy picked up 0.0 warfare which is not very suitable for new players for many reasons and ignored all the options new players have for PVP.
Manipulation only.
Darkfall will never ever be like EVE PVP wise because EVE uses deep complex combat mechanics that does indeed allow very new players to have a role and place in PVP. Scalability you won't get in twitch control games.
Comments
The fact you listed the reasons why the protection period was reduced does not make it less fail.
Tasos said it diluted the darkfall experience. He is right.
I played DF during beta. What killed the game for me wasn't the ganking (it was annoying, but expected) but it was the fact that the game seemed "empty" to me.
The game had tremendous backstory, yet the world was void of such lore. I like to explore, but eventually gave it up in this game because while there was stuff to find, none of it seemed to have any information attuned to it.
I remember following a river into a hillside cave. In side was an underground cavern, flooded, with a tomb in it. There were some mobs, as well as some cages that might have held prisoners (woe to them who couldn't breathe underwater). I thought to myself, WOW this is awsome! It peaked my interest and I wanted to know a bit more. And then my heart sank. I knew that nowhere in this game was there ANY POSSIBLE WAY to find out more about this area. There were no quests, there were no libraries, no npc's etc. This place simply existed, and there was no lore to provide it any details.
I found a few other places like that in the game. I thought I had stumbled upon a new NPC city, only to find out it was a mob spawn. Of course, there was no way to find out anything about it. It was just a tree city full of people who would kill you.
if Darkfall introduced more lore into their game, quests, books, libraries, etc that didn't take away from the sandbox feel, I would be drawn back in quickly. As it was, it seemed that they had set up an elaborate set piece designed SOLELY for guild warfare...
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Darkfall is the only MMo in existence where people on day one think they should have a chance against someone thats been playing for a year, because its half skill based. The truth is a day one character in darkfall has a infinitely better chance against a year old character than they would in WoW. They can even wear the same armor in DFO. But no generally someone who has played for 3 weeks can't beat someone who has played for a year. Would you really expect otherwise? People call it a grind and whine and quit. I for one have enjoyed my 7 months on Darkfall.
Except WoW ain't that dumb to force L1 into PVP with L80 which makes your 'point' moot...
No, its not because DF is skill based, but because it is FFA open world PvP and is not tier PvP where people of approximate level (or skill level) engage in more or less fair PvP. In DF, a vet with years of game time can and does engage noobs 1 day old. Most people that play games like a challenge, but not impossible odds. Therefore they assume that the noob has a chance against a vet.
If you wan't to keep the current noob-vet difference, then what DF needs to do is to tier PvP levels. Make it so a vet cannot kill a noob without noob's permission or at least punish him severely for griefing (not applicable in sieging or siege defences).
If you want to keep the current FFA PvP model though, then make it so noobs have a chance to fight back. Vets would still have an advtange with the utility they have, better weapons, better armor, more spells and skills, more mounts. but they wouldn't go afk in the mid of 4-5 noobs attacking them and surviving it.
Even better reason to try darkfall would be if AV created a PvE server where PvP is forbidden everywhere except in designated PvP spots (arenas), by being an outlaw (murdering own people), or by participating in a siege (attacking or defending it). This way, a casual PvE crowd that is not so much interested in PvP can avoid PvP altogether. This would bring in a lot of PvE junkies like myself and would give the necessary funds to improve both PvE and PvP aspects of DF. All sides are happy, me thinks. No?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Some of us enjoy the freedom that Darkfall allows. I personally can't stand restrictive games like WOW. You may call it dumb, I simply call it a difference of taste.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Taste and dumb ain't excluding each other
its true most people want a challenge which is exactly why vets do not spend a large amount of time sitting around hitting noobs for their leather armour.
having said that, agreed on pvp I understand and war decs I understand, wanting to randomly hunting people who want to be left alone I find to be a personality disorder and unfortuntly this fantastic game has that mechanic and it attracts many people who should be on medications.
For me personally, all other aspects of the game make up for the uninvited pvp problem
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Absolutely.
You're clearly dead-set in basing *everything* on "how competitive you are against vets". Don't know what to tell you.. I don't suffer such hang-ups. If I want to go find PvP at my very newbie-like level of experience in the game, I'll go find PvP. If I get ganked by someone far higher level than me... then I get ganked. It happens. Welcome to an open PvP MMO.
Still again, what you're basically arguing for is Unreal Tournament, the MMO. Or, as was mentioned by someone else... Planetside, which is a MMOFPS, not a MMORPG.
That is not what AV designed DF to be, no matter how much some want to claim otherwise.
If you are so dead-set on restricting yourself to "equality against Vets or Nothing", all I can say is maybe you're playing the wrong game. Perhaps you should give Planetside or Unreal Tournament a spin... at least those games will give you that "Day 1 Balance Against Vets" you seek. That's not a flame. It's a sincere suggestion. A PvP MMO with meaningful progression clearly chafes with your desired playstyle. Have you given Warhammer a try?
As for the whole argument of "well a bunch of people feel this way". And? If the game not having newbies and vets on even ground from day 1 "keeps people away" then that's AV's problem to deal with. I'm not sure why people who've decided they're not going to play anyway should care.
That said, the whole argument of "Vets ganking day 1 newbs" is so exaggerated and disingenuous it's ridiculous. I played DF for about 1.5 months some time back in which I started new characters a few times to get a feel for different races. I started over again some weeks back. And I just started another new character recently. I have been a "day 1 newb" many times over. I can count the number of times I've been ganked, or even attacked, by "vets" who destroyed me on less than one hand. The vast majority of times I've been attacked has been by people of comparable skill level to me. And, yes, I've left town, yes I've traveled beyond the safety of guard towers... The way some people here describe it you'd think every time they log in they can't take two steps outside their starting town without being ganked. Sorry... just don't happen.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
amen wsimike, amen.
Please AV stick to your guns. Don't let the pve junkies steer you in the wrong direction...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
I don't see why people want to be able to compete against vets so quickly. I want to level my guy up, then compete against other people who have leveled their guy up, and may the best leveled up guy win based 80% on our skill strategy and tactics, and 20% on pre-fight choices, such as "which gear to wear?" and "which abilities and potions should I bring?".
Well said, WSIMike.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
In other words, you say that AV never wanted to get more subs than they have now.
Sorry, but I am not buying that one. Darkfall is a business like any other and as such it tries to make as much money as possible.
Going non-mainstream is fine, losing subs because of that is not. That is stupid and/or failure in design.
AV is doing fine. They moved into bigger offices and are hiring more people. So I would say this niche is working out pretty good for them. The game population is also growing. The pvp these last few weeks have been awesome. Anyone who has been playing recently will attest to that.
I do not know, I seem to miss the "Reasons not to try Darkfall" thread. Lets see, go to a game site and see how many players are not having a blast then balance those threads (if they are not deleted) to see the "other side" of the picture of Darkfall. It is called "research".
Maybe if we all say we like it syncaine will give us attention! Then we will be cool right?
Making as much money as possible is OK. Creating unsustainable business, and making changes which will be good short-term, but will kill the game long-term, is not.
Many MMOs launched with higher subscription numbers than DF, and have not survived their first 18 months (APB).
In case of DF niche means that they target group of people who played AC on Darktide server, Shadowbane, DAoC on Mordred server, and try to make best game for them. These players have really nowhere to go but to DF. After a year they look at pre-NGE SWG players, people playing UO freeshards, because their expectations are not incompatible with expectations of core audience. And there are bored EvE players - which may like something more twitch based.
What do you get by not targetting mainstream audience ? You can get away with charging 15$ a month, because you don't compete directly with F2P (EQ2, LOTRO, DDO, RoM), or games with tons of content (WoW), based on deep lore (LOTRO). You don't compete with low-level WAR PvP, which is essentially free.
Hah,
You have never played the real Darkfall. All you have tried is the empty shell we have these days, and you act like an expert. Well you are not. You haven`t even tried the game when it was fun and full of competitive players.
Now mr. mmo expert, tell us what FFA FULL-LOOT PVP mmo with no safezones you have played were you need a year of leveling to be on par with the vets. Come on tell us.
Fact is there have never been full-loot hypergrinder like darkfall before. And the reason is simple, they don`t work. If new players had been given a chance to compete sooner we wouldn`t have lost 97000 of the 100000 that bought this game.
That is what I am saying, targeted market is tiny, something you cannot grow upon and only way to grow on MMO market is to gain more subs. Which means opening your game to larger audience but tiny minority.
All the games you listed are pretty good example of future Darkfall is going towards, for reasons described above.
There is at least one such MMO:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/291698/The-Doktor-Does-His-Homework-Re-Rookies-PvP-Nullsec.html
"Of the 40 corporations I've researched thus far, the average minimum SP requirement (this includes corps with requirements of 0 SP) is approximately 10 million skill points — and those must be focused on PvP, in nearly all cases. (,,,) What this boils down to is that your average rookie (who doesn't have fancy implants or high learning skills when he's born) will have to train nine or ten months' worth of skills just to reach that minimum requirement. More, during this time his training must be almost exclusively focused on PvP ships."
I know, it's not completely full loot. And it does have "almost safe" zones.
But after DF will get it's offline skilling, it's character development / PvP balance may be much closer to EvE's balance:
3 weeks - Ready for group PvP
3 months- Reached 90% of potential at chosen combat style. Character development slows down to crawl.
9 months - Char can't get any better in chosen combat style.
The article is stupid.
The guy picked up 0.0 warfare which is not very suitable for new players for many reasons and ignored all the options new players have for PVP.
Manipulation only.
Darkfall will never ever be like EVE PVP wise because EVE uses deep complex combat mechanics that does indeed allow very new players to have a role and place in PVP. Scalability you won't get in twitch control games.