people who are terrified of being ganked have to understand something.
It doesnt make sense to burn 1 billion gold on regants and gear to uber max your character just to project yourself becuase you lost som scale armor once.
Play the odds, if you never gank anyone (I should know I play mostly pve) yoour bank will grow more than it will shrink. In fact, in the long run I wouldnt be at all surprised if one can make more gold by never doing any pvp. Play the numbers, watch the long term.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Not defending Darkfall but I dont think you understand the concept of sandbox. A themepark with lots of choices is just a themepark with many different rides. A sandbox has no linear path for you to take and you rather live in the world rather than living in a themepark where you take rides.
That being said, when I played Darkfall a year ago, it was a pretty shitty sandbox because you need things to do even in a sandbox and Darkfall, then, was basically a 3D engine where ganking was rampant because there was not much else fun/interesting things to do.
What can you do in DF that can be classified as a sandbox? You can build a house, but at a preset locations. Is that sandbox or just a different ride in a themepark as you put it? You can increase your skills and be what you want to be - WoW has levels and talents to distinguish your character. Ok, to be fair, DF is a bit more loose then WoW because once you made a priest in WoW, you can never become a tank with that char. WoW compensates this with ability to create several characters - each is played very differently. DF does not have that much of a diversity in that department but at least it gives you the freedom to experience different modes of play (archery/melee/magic) without the need to switch characters.
What else, tradeskills - fairly similar to WoW - harvest leads to manufacturing.
Navy - a small pieceof sandbox element. Too bad its very underused now. You can only attack coastal cities that are in range and do the weekly. Could become a major pieceo f sandbox if developed further.
If DF would allow to build houses anywhere, build any modules in the cities, make more use of the navy (trading?), crate vendors and place them anywhere, have different quality values of resources like in Horizons and SWG, then it would be considerably more sandbox. As it is now, its not bad, but not that great either.
Indeed. They've also stated that they wanted to make a game that *they* would want to play; something with the wide open FFA feel of old school UO. No one else was making it, so they decided to.
Also, the argument made that "they're in business to make money and would certainly like to make more, so why wouldn't they make the game appeal to more players?", is like asking "surely someone opening a restaurant wants to make money, so why wouldn't they open a large franchise location, instead of opening their own "mom and pop" joint that wouldn't attract as many customers?". It's a ridiculous and dishonest question that doesn't even warrant an answer, because the answer is obvious. Or, should be anyway.
Thats a PR statement and you know it. They wanted to show the audience that they were "hardcore" developers and they wouldn't faulter from their hardcore dream. Guess what. They did! They already changed DF considerably from their hardcore stance. Just the drastic increase in skill gain and the health boost should be proof enough that their vision was NOT fixed. And thats good. If DF now were at the same level as it was during release - I don't think it would have even 50% of the current population. The game changes whenever their vision changes.
You can't be competetive in 1-2 months if you are constantly farmed by vets. And please don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does happen.
So you are 'constantly' farmed by vets? Really?
Getting ganked takes 20 seconds. But those 20 seconds can mean that I lose X number of hours of game play in terms of lost items. Furthermore, as I said in my earlier post. One day I was prevented from playing completely by a vet who farmed me and few other noobs. Even in the safety of the city, he kept us sniping from a safe distance with fireballs. I dont think anyone would like that. Thats the mechanic that IMO DF could get rid of - one person forcing other people to log off because he has to get rid of the red status. At least he was nice about it, he never verbally abused us noobs. But he didn't let us go either.
PvE servers have even more choices then PvP - you can level up through some really nice lore without ever being ganked.
......
Never are you forced to do one thing or the other. So yeah, DFO has totally different grind - it is noticed because it is forced upon you within the context of PvP. Its too linear and too predictable. From that perspective, WoW is more sandbox because you can do what you wan't to do without being forced to do other things.
If you think there is only "1 path" to follow you haven't done much in the game.
Maybe you should stick with WoW and move on then. This game is clearly not for you.
SWG pre-cu was "the game for me". After some time, for no apparent reason, they changed it and it became "the game not for me". Why can't DF change from "the game not for me" to "the game for me"? I like it enough to want to be "the game for me". Judging from the pop levels, it could use people like me. Lucklily, AV is moving in that direction. A bit too slowly IMO, but I can wait.
If people took the "this game is not for you" and never voiced anything to change it, then there would be no progress. Its our job as consumers to tell them, businesses, what we want. If it were WoW, yeah, I'd probably just bite the bullet and leave - I am not arrogant enough to think that Blizzard would go against millions of people to change the game just so a few thousand of people can have "their game". With DF, well, they don't have millions of subscribers.
You can't be competetive in 1-2 months if you are constantly farmed by vets. And please don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does happen.
So you are 'constantly' farmed by vets? Really?
Getting ganked takes 20 seconds. But those 20 seconds can mean that I lose X number of hours of game play in terms of lost items. Furthermore, as I said in my earlier post. One day I was prevented from playing completely by a vet who farmed me and few other noobs.
You can't be competetive in 1-2 months if you are constantly farmed by vets. And please don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does happen.
So you are 'constantly' farmed by vets? Really?
Getting ganked takes 20 seconds. But those 20 seconds can mean that I lose X number of hours of game play in terms of lost items. Furthermore, as I said in my earlier post. One day I was prevented from playing completely by a vet who farmed me and few other noobs.
#2 learn that there are more than a single spwn in the game. Farm in out of the way places so there is not as high PvP traffic.
Survival skills. Survival skills. You aren't playing WoW anymore.
I am a classic example of a primary pve player and by far I bring in more loot than I lose and taht was even when there was just one server.
I think I can count on one hand how manyfull days I didnt have a net gain to my bank (aside from war seiges).
This subject has two sets of QQ players which are at impossible odds with reality. One group says that ganking is so bad you cant build your bank, while the other group says there are anot enough players to support pvp.
it cant be both.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
SWG pre-cu was "the game for me". After some time, for no apparent reason, they changed it and it became "the game not for me". Why can't DF change from "the game not for me" to "the game for me"? I like it enough to want to be "the game for me". Judging from the pop levels, it could use people like me. Lucklily, AV is moving in that direction. A bit too slowly IMO, but I can wait.
If people took the "this game is not for you" and never voiced anything to change it, then there would be no progress. Its our job as consumers to tell them, businesses, what we want. If it were WoW, yeah, I'd probably just bite the bullet and leave - I am not arrogant enough to think that Blizzard would go against millions of people to change the game just so a few thousand of people can have "their game". With DF, well, they don't have millions of subscribers.
I've had similar problems, jimmy. I really wanted to like EVE. Ryzom, even, Mortal Online or Vanguard. These are games I tired very hard to like, but ended up being unable to play for various reasons. While it's true that I believe consumers should voice their opinions to help shape the games designers are creating, I'm going to ask that you leave our precious Darkfall alone. You've probably realized, looking around the MMOsphere, that there aren't many sandbox games available to those of us that don't prefer themepark titles. I commend you on your dedication, but I would like to mention that if you can't find any enjoyable experiences within Darkfall, your time might be better spent playing another game (or at least looking for one) rather than awaiting the changes you desire. It's even possible that you are playing other games and enjoying them, but that for whatever reason you're still saddened to see DFO turn out differently from what you invisioned, or had hoped for. This certainly sucks, and I've witnessed it myself, but I think you might be in the process of learning more about yourself: sandbox games, Darkfall specifically, probably isn't for you (and I mean that as politely and considerately as possible).
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
#2 learn that there are more than a single spwn in the game. Farm in out of the way places so there is not as high PvP traffic.
Survival skills. Survival skills. You aren't playing WoW anymore.
Thats the point, suddenly the game is sandbox for you (you can do anything, including harass and grief noobs) but not so sandbox for me (go find another place, bank more often, log off and wait out, join a clan). As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
umm so what are u looking for? something with autotarget, somehwere where it give u an arrow for quests? something that is pretty much the same as every other mmo? Darkfall is something completly new it's not a game for everyone. I used to think it wasnt for me i never really liked PvP before darkfall i never liked the idea of no auto target i gave darkfall a try and i dont think i can ever go back to any regular mmo. I say If you want a change something different and your able to give it acouple chances because remember it is something completly different than your standard mmo.
As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
Sounds like real life to me..... IRL you are forced to do things you don't want all the time (forced to go to school, forced to work, forced to pay taxes, etc... ) with "very little chance of resisting it.
RL being the greatest sandbox of all, your point doesn't hold much water...
#2 learn that there are more than a single spwn in the game. Farm in out of the way places so there is not as high PvP traffic.
Survival skills. Survival skills. You aren't playing WoW anymore.
Thats the point, suddenly the game is sandbox for you (you can do anything, including harass and grief noobs) but not so sandbox for me (go find another place, bank more often, log off and wait out, join a clan). As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
Banking often in a full loot FFA game is called common sense, quite how you think that somehow makes the game less of a sandbox is beyond me.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I've had similar problems, jimmy. I really wanted to like EVE. Ryzom, even, Mortal Online or Vanguard. These are games I tired very hard to like, but ended up being unable to play for various reasons. While it's true that I believe consumers should voice their opinions to help shape the games designers are creating, I'm going to ask that you leave our precious Darkfall alone. You've probably realized, looking around the MMOsphere, that there aren't many sandbox games available to those of us that don't prefer themepark titles. I commend you on your dedication, but I would like to mention that if you can't find any enjoyable experiences within Darkfall, your time might be better spent playing another game (or at least looking for one) rather than awaiting the changes you desire. It's even possible that you are playing other games and enjoying them, but that for whatever reason you're still saddened to see DFO turn out differently from what you invisioned, or had hoped for. This certainly sucks, and I've witnessed it myself, but I think you might be in the process of learning more about yourself: sandbox games, Darkfall specifically, probably isn't for you (and I mean that as politely and considerately as possible).
You are very nice to write "bug off" in such a polite manner, I salute you for that! I probably have hit the nerve or two here, but luckily we are very civil today. I understand very well your position because just like mine, it is valid and is based on an opinion. You are wrong that I did not find any enjoyment in DF - why do you think I am so vocal here? Its because I loved a lot of aspects of DF, but several critical flaws (IMO) prevent me from playing it.
What bogles me more is that nobody has responded to my suggestion of creating a separate PvE server with rules that cater to the much hated mainstream playerbase. With this separate PvE server, all those hardcore PvP junkies would keep their ganking rules while us, PvE junkies would have a carebear server to crawl around. This would bring additional revenue for AV and would be good for DF, right? But for some reason, everyone is ignoring that suggestion - making me think that PvP crowd just doesnt want anyone to enjoy the game. Even if it means the downfall of the game. Why? I have no clue.
I don't play WoW, I haven't played it seriously in a long time. I play only offline games now. DF is unique enough to bring me that tickle while playing it, if only it were a bit more friendly for the PvE crowd. Oh well, I just hope AV is sensible enough to give us a cookie in time and not concentrate all the goodies in the FFA PvP camp.
#2 learn that there are more than a single spwn in the game. Farm in out of the way places so there is not as high PvP traffic.
Survival skills. Survival skills. You aren't playing WoW anymore.
Thats the point, suddenly the game is sandbox for you (you can do anything, including harass and grief noobs) but not so sandbox for me (go find another place, bank more often, log off and wait out, join a clan). As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
Banking often in a full loot FFA game is called common sense, quite how you think that somehow makes the game less of a sandbox is beyond me.
You took just one point out of contest. Banking on itself is not the issue here, being forced to do something because of the actions of another person without having a chance to defend or retreat is the issue.
If I fight in PvP where we are equals or even if not but I had the choice to retreat, but didn't take that choice - that is fine by me.
If I fight in PvP and I am not equal and i had no choice, no way of escaping then that is not fine by me.
In the 2nd scenario, no matter how often I bank - one person enforces their behavior upon another without the other person able to resist intelligently. Its like kicking someone when they are down and unresponcive. I cannot break this down into simpler terms. Its an issue of the concept of unfair competition. Banking often is just a damage control to prevent some loss (items/regs/mats), but it will not eliminate the unfair advantage one person has over another.
Banking often in a full loot FFA game is called common sense, quite how you think that somehow makes the game less of a sandbox is beyond me.
You took just one point out of contest. Banking on itself is not the issue here, being forced to do something because of the actions of another person without having a chance to defend or retreat is the issue.
If I fight in PvP where we are equals or even if not but I had the choice to retreat, but didn't take that choice - that is fine by me.
If I fight in PvP and I am not equal and i had no choice, no way of escaping then that is not fine by me.
In the 2nd scenario, no matter how often I bank - one person enforces their behavior upon another without the other person able to resist intelligently. Its like kicking someone when they are down and unresponcive. I cannot break this down into simpler terms. Its an issue of the concept of unfair competition. Banking often is just a damage control to prevent some loss in case of unfair advantage. but it will not eliminate it.
Why are you looking at a niche full loot ffa sandbox with progression again? Full fat pvp or not, you are not going to get 'fair fights' often in mmos. If you want pvp when you want it on a level basis play FPS games.
Secondly no one is forcing you to bank, you should simply do that as it's sensible to do so in a full loot game. What eliminates 'unfair advantage' is you actually, you know, skill up a bit in a game which has progression.....
Tell me, should I go onto the WoW forums, the LoTRO forums, hell any other pve mmo out there and demand them to change to full loot, full ffa pvp mechanics? No because that is not what they are about and doing so would be ridiculous, much like bemoaning the fact that a niche ffa full loot sandbox game has 'unfair' pvp and makes you bank often.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
Sounds like real life to me..... IRL you are forced to do things you don't want all the time (forced to go to school, forced to work, forced to pay taxes, etc... ) with "very little chance of resisting it.
RL being the greatest sandbox of all, your point doesn't hold much water...
You are not forced to do any of that. You make your own choices. You think you are forced to do it because you think "better education=better future". Its true to a point, but not a fact. Even the law, you arent forced to obey it - but you will suffer the consequences. DF is more anarchic then real life because the consequences are.. practically non existant. What consequences you get for farming noobs? You get better standings so you can gank more of your own people. Maybe you get ganked by some guy who protects noobs and lose your gear - thats not as bad as a noob losing their gear. There are practically no consequences for being mean in DF. I'm not talking about hacking, just using standard DF mechanics for bad behaviour - noob killing, noob farming, kill stealing, corpse stealing, mount stealing, etc etc. Vets lose little, noobs lose a lot.
If I fight in PvP where we are equals or even if not but I had the choice to retreat, but didn't take that choice - that is fine by me.
Again, you are contradicting yourself.
If everyone would be equal it would not be a sandbox.
If I fight in PvP and I am not equal and i had no choice, no way of escaping then that is not fine by me.
You want a game with your own rules: everyone must be equal. This is not a sandbox.
In a sandbox all players are different. Some will be stronger than you, and some weaker. Just like in real life.
As IRL, you have the choice to improve yourself to catch up to the stronger ones -> in this way you are equal.
In the 2nd scenario, no matter how often I bank - one person enforces their behavior upon another without the other person able to resist intelligently. Its like kicking someone when they are down and unresponcive. I cannot break this down into simpler terms. Its an issue of the concept of unfair competition. Banking often is just a damage control to prevent some loss (items/regs/mats), but it will not eliminate the unfair advantage one person has over another.
No. Of course you can play intelligently.
An intelligent player will adapt to the situation. For example, by teaming up with other players or getting into a clan. Or moving to an area policed and protected by other stronger players, etc.... just like in real life.
As for "unfair advantage one person has over another", again it's just like in real life, the greatest sandbox of all.
1) Why are you looking at a niche full loot ffa sandbox with progression again? Full fat pvp or not, you are not going to get 'fair fights' often in mmos. If you want pvp when you want it on a level basis play FPS games.
2) Secondly no one is forcing you to bank, you should simply do that as it's sensible to do so in a full loot game. What eliminates 'unfair advantage' is you actually, you know, skilling up a bit in a game which has progression.....
3) Tell me, should I go onto the WoW forums, the LoTRO forums, hell any other pve mmo out there and demand them to change to full loot, full ffa pvp mechanics? No because that is not what they are abount and doing so would be ridiculous, much like bemoaning the fact that a niche ffa full loot sandbox game has 'unfair' pvp and makes you bank often.
1) Thats the problem with DF, not getting fair fights. It CAN be done to BE full loot FFA PvP with either one of these:
- tiered PvP;
- safe zones;
- severe penalties to unfair combat;
I don't want to play FPS, I already have one that I play. I wan't to play FFA PvP MMORPG. DF is the closest thing to that at the moment.
2) Again, I explained several million times that in a system that DF has now, leveling up at times can be IMPOSSIBLE if you keep getting farmed and lose your items. Your leveling up depends not on you, but on someone else who wants to farm easy prey. I don't think you like the idea of someone walking into your room, turning off your monitor and telling you "You had enough for today, go clean up your closet".
3) You can, but it is highly unlikely that someone will listen. The main reason for this is - why change something that is highly sucessfull? You only change something that does not work well. DF does not work well. And you can keep telling me that "does not work well" is how it was designed, I will never agree with you. DF was not designed to work that way. Change of skill gain and health boost are just 2 examples of fixing something that was not working well. More to come I hope.
You are not forced to do any of that. You make your own choices. You think you are forced to do it because you think "better education=better future". Its true to a point, but not a fact. Even the law, you arent forced to obey it - but you will suffer the consequences. DF is more anarchic then real life because the consequences are.. practically non existant. What consequences you get for farming noobs? You get better standings so you can gank more of your own people. Maybe you get ganked by some guy who protects noobs and lose your gear - thats not as bad as a noob losing their gear. There are practically no consequences for being mean in DF. I'm not talking about hacking, just using standard DF mechanics for bad behaviour - noob killing, noob farming, kill stealing, corpse stealing, mount stealing, etc etc. Vets lose little, noobs lose a lot.
Noobs lose a lot? What the heck were you carrying around with you when you played, geez? Only carry/wear what you don't mind losing, it's not complicated.
In the beginning the only stuff I equipped and carried was the crap I was looting. Something tells me the way you went about things in this game wasn't exactly the wisest path. You really would have benefited from trying out different clans until you found one that fit. Then you could have been properly introduced to the game.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I tried Darkfall fr a short time. My main experiene was to get ganked at the noob area over and over again. Which sort of makes the game a useless waste of time. The graphics are nice, I enjoyed the archery system a lot. The community, well the non-existence of an actual functional community, seems comprised of a bunch of kids that think its fun to run around and gank every level 1 -5 they can find. Makes for a lot of fun so my recommendation... don't try it because if you aren't high enough level right off the start, your not going to get far unless you just hang in there till you get ganked to whatever level you need to be to start doing the same.
If I fight in PvP where we are equals or even if not but I had the choice to retreat, but didn't take that choice - that is fine by me.
Again, you are contradicting yourself.
If everyone would be equal it would not be a sandbox.
No, im not - because you started talking about your personal skill. I was talking about character skills. Give 2 guys same guns and let them duke it out. But don't give someone a 9mm pistol and the other gun a nuclear bomb (gross overexageration to prove the point).
If I fight in PvP and I am not equal and i had no choice, no way of escaping then that is not fine by me.
You want a game with your own rules: everyone must be equal. This is not a sandbox.
In a sandbox all players are different. Some will be stronger than you, and some weaker. Just like in real life.
As IRL, you have the choice to improve yourself to catch up to the stronger ones -> in this way you are equal.
In real life, you aren't being thrown into the ring with Tyson. Being equal is not sandbox??? Why not? Afraid of a challenge? Afraid your personal skills will no longer let you dominate the fight? That is MORE sandbox then when your character skills dictate the outcome of the fight.
In the 2nd scenario, no matter how often I bank - one person enforces their behavior upon another without the other person able to resist intelligently. Its like kicking someone when they are down and unresponcive. I cannot break this down into simpler terms. Its an issue of the concept of unfair competition. Banking often is just a damage control to prevent some loss (items/regs/mats), but it will not eliminate the unfair advantage one person has over another.
No. Of course you can play intelligently.
An intelligent player will adapt to the situation. For example, by teaming up with other players or getting into a clan. Or moving to an area policed and protected by other stronger players, etc.... just like in real life.
As for "unfair advantage one person has over another", again it's just like in real life, the greatest sandbox of all.
Being in a clan is even worse for noobs- you can get ganked even in NPC cities. Again, I don't want to avoid PvP as you are suggesting I should. I want to avoid unfair PvP! I want to be ambushed by 2 guys and win the game due to MY skills, not my character skills.
As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
Sounds like real life to me..... IRL you are forced to do things you don't want all the time (forced to go to school, forced to work, forced to pay taxes, etc... ) with "very little chance of resisting it.
RL being the greatest sandbox of all, your point doesn't hold much water...
You are not forced to do any of that. You make your own choices. You think you are forced to do it because you think "better education=better future". Its true to a point, but not a fact. Even the law, you arent forced to obey it - but you will suffer the consequences. DF is more anarchic then real life because the consequences are.. practically non existant. What consequences you get for farming noobs? You get better standings so you can gank more of your own people. Maybe you get ganked by some guy who protects noobs and lose your gear - thats not as bad as a noob losing their gear. There are practically no consequences for being mean in DF. I'm not talking about hacking, just using standard DF mechanics for bad behaviour - noob killing, noob farming, kill stealing, corpse stealing, mount stealing, etc etc. Vets lose little, noobs lose a lot.
Nope, IRL you are forced, with "very little chance of resisting it", as you said.
You can refuse to go to school and refuse to work, but then you won't have much of a life. Just like in Darkfall.
But in DF there is more freedom than in the real world. Because IRL, if you gank noobs you can't play the game anymore (either you abide by the rules or you get killed or you go to jail); this isn't much of a choice is it?.
So looking at it this way, DF is more of a sandbox than real life.... it's just that compared to RL, DF is still laking many of the tools to play in the box.
1) Thats the problem with DF, not getting fair fights. It CAN be done to BE full loot FFA PvP with either one of these:
- tiered PvP;
- safe zones;
- severe penalties to unfair combat;
I don't want to play FPS, I already have one that I play. I wan't to play FFA PvP MMORPG. DF is the closest thing to that at the moment.
2) Again, I explained several million times that in a system that DF has now, leveling up at times can be IMPOSSIBLE if you keep getting farmed and lose your items. Your leveling up depends not on you, but on someone else who wants to farm easy prey. I don't think you like the idea of someone walking into your room, turning off your monitor and telling you "You had enough for today, go clean up your closet".
3) You can, but it is highly unlikely that someone will listen. The main reason for this is - why change something that is highly sucessfull? You only change something that does not work well. DF does not work well. And you can keep telling me that "does not work well" is how it was designed, I will never agree with you. DF was not designed to work that way. Change of skill gain and health boost are just 2 examples of fixing something that was not working well. More to come I hope.
1. It's a sandbox, tiered pvp and zones are not the remit of a sandbox game. Perhaps you should try WAR or AoC.
2. No it isn't. If you keep getting farmed then I am sorry but you are doing it wrong. Try moving somewhere that isn't a major hub which will attract PKers, try looking around and using the terrain. In my first two months of play I got killed a whopping 5 times whilst skilling up. More people actually came up to me and gave me gold/items then killed me and took them from me.
3. They are successful because the majority do not want ffa pvp, most players are casuals. Are you trying to imply that all games should strive to follow that model in the hopes of chasing millions of subs? Oddly enough some of us actually like full loot ffa progression games and DF caters for us. DF IS working as AV intended it to in terms of its pvp mechanics, what they have though done is balls up in not having a skill cap and the length of the grind.
Should DF ever become more carebear and tone down it's ffa pvp system then no doubt another developer will at some point make another niche mmo to cater to those of us who like the kind of pvp mechanics DF has now. I take it you will jump onto forums regarding that mmo as well hoping to get it 'toned down' to match all the other pvp lite mmos out there on the market place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Comments
people who are terrified of being ganked have to understand something.
It doesnt make sense to burn 1 billion gold on regants and gear to uber max your character just to project yourself becuase you lost som scale armor once.
Play the odds, if you never gank anyone (I should know I play mostly pve) yoour bank will grow more than it will shrink. In fact, in the long run I wouldnt be at all surprised if one can make more gold by never doing any pvp. Play the numbers, watch the long term.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What can you do in DF that can be classified as a sandbox? You can build a house, but at a preset locations. Is that sandbox or just a different ride in a themepark as you put it? You can increase your skills and be what you want to be - WoW has levels and talents to distinguish your character. Ok, to be fair, DF is a bit more loose then WoW because once you made a priest in WoW, you can never become a tank with that char. WoW compensates this with ability to create several characters - each is played very differently. DF does not have that much of a diversity in that department but at least it gives you the freedom to experience different modes of play (archery/melee/magic) without the need to switch characters.
What else, tradeskills - fairly similar to WoW - harvest leads to manufacturing.
Navy - a small pieceof sandbox element. Too bad its very underused now. You can only attack coastal cities that are in range and do the weekly. Could become a major pieceo f sandbox if developed further.
If DF would allow to build houses anywhere, build any modules in the cities, make more use of the navy (trading?), crate vendors and place them anywhere, have different quality values of resources like in Horizons and SWG, then it would be considerably more sandbox. As it is now, its not bad, but not that great either.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Thats a PR statement and you know it. They wanted to show the audience that they were "hardcore" developers and they wouldn't faulter from their hardcore dream. Guess what. They did! They already changed DF considerably from their hardcore stance. Just the drastic increase in skill gain and the health boost should be proof enough that their vision was NOT fixed. And thats good. If DF now were at the same level as it was during release - I don't think it would have even 50% of the current population. The game changes whenever their vision changes.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Getting ganked takes 20 seconds. But those 20 seconds can mean that I lose X number of hours of game play in terms of lost items. Furthermore, as I said in my earlier post. One day I was prevented from playing completely by a vet who farmed me and few other noobs. Even in the safety of the city, he kept us sniping from a safe distance with fireballs. I dont think anyone would like that. Thats the mechanic that IMO DF could get rid of - one person forcing other people to log off because he has to get rid of the red status. At least he was nice about it, he never verbally abused us noobs. But he didn't let us go either.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
SWG pre-cu was "the game for me". After some time, for no apparent reason, they changed it and it became "the game not for me". Why can't DF change from "the game not for me" to "the game for me"? I like it enough to want to be "the game for me". Judging from the pop levels, it could use people like me. Lucklily, AV is moving in that direction. A bit too slowly IMO, but I can wait.
If people took the "this game is not for you" and never voiced anything to change it, then there would be no progress. Its our job as consumers to tell them, businesses, what we want. If it were WoW, yeah, I'd probably just bite the bullet and leave - I am not arrogant enough to think that Blizzard would go against millions of people to change the game just so a few thousand of people can have "their game". With DF, well, they don't have millions of subscribers.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
#1 bank more often
#2 learn that there are more than a single spwn in the game. Farm in out of the way places so there is not as high PvP traffic.
Survival skills. Survival skills. You aren't playing WoW anymore.
I am a classic example of a primary pve player and by far I bring in more loot than I lose and taht was even when there was just one server.
I think I can count on one hand how manyfull days I didnt have a net gain to my bank (aside from war seiges).
This subject has two sets of QQ players which are at impossible odds with reality. One group says that ganking is so bad you cant build your bank, while the other group says there are anot enough players to support pvp.
it cant be both.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I've had similar problems, jimmy. I really wanted to like EVE. Ryzom, even, Mortal Online or Vanguard. These are games I tired very hard to like, but ended up being unable to play for various reasons. While it's true that I believe consumers should voice their opinions to help shape the games designers are creating, I'm going to ask that you leave our precious Darkfall alone. You've probably realized, looking around the MMOsphere, that there aren't many sandbox games available to those of us that don't prefer themepark titles. I commend you on your dedication, but I would like to mention that if you can't find any enjoyable experiences within Darkfall, your time might be better spent playing another game (or at least looking for one) rather than awaiting the changes you desire. It's even possible that you are playing other games and enjoying them, but that for whatever reason you're still saddened to see DFO turn out differently from what you invisioned, or had hoped for. This certainly sucks, and I've witnessed it myself, but I think you might be in the process of learning more about yourself: sandbox games, Darkfall specifically, probably isn't for you (and I mean that as politely and considerately as possible).
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
oh for the love of !!!!!!!!!
you cant have to much ganking going on and a low population at the same time!!
pick one subject or the other, you cant have both.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thats the point, suddenly the game is sandbox for you (you can do anything, including harass and grief noobs) but not so sandbox for me (go find another place, bank more often, log off and wait out, join a clan). As a noob, im being forced to do something that I do not want to do and I have very little chance of resisting it.
Thats not sandbox from my point of view.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
umm so what are u looking for? something with autotarget, somehwere where it give u an arrow for quests? something that is pretty much the same as every other mmo? Darkfall is something completly new it's not a game for everyone. I used to think it wasnt for me i never really liked PvP before darkfall i never liked the idea of no auto target i gave darkfall a try and i dont think i can ever go back to any regular mmo. I say If you want a change something different and your able to give it acouple chances because remember it is something completly different than your standard mmo.
Sounds like real life to me..... IRL you are forced to do things you don't want all the time (forced to go to school, forced to work, forced to pay taxes, etc... ) with "very little chance of resisting it.
RL being the greatest sandbox of all, your point doesn't hold much water...
Banking often in a full loot FFA game is called common sense, quite how you think that somehow makes the game less of a sandbox is beyond me.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You are very nice to write "bug off" in such a polite manner, I salute you for that! I probably have hit the nerve or two here, but luckily we are very civil today. I understand very well your position because just like mine, it is valid and is based on an opinion. You are wrong that I did not find any enjoyment in DF - why do you think I am so vocal here? Its because I loved a lot of aspects of DF, but several critical flaws (IMO) prevent me from playing it.
What bogles me more is that nobody has responded to my suggestion of creating a separate PvE server with rules that cater to the much hated mainstream playerbase. With this separate PvE server, all those hardcore PvP junkies would keep their ganking rules while us, PvE junkies would have a carebear server to crawl around. This would bring additional revenue for AV and would be good for DF, right? But for some reason, everyone is ignoring that suggestion - making me think that PvP crowd just doesnt want anyone to enjoy the game. Even if it means the downfall of the game. Why? I have no clue.
I don't play WoW, I haven't played it seriously in a long time. I play only offline games now. DF is unique enough to bring me that tickle while playing it, if only it were a bit more friendly for the PvE crowd. Oh well, I just hope AV is sensible enough to give us a cookie in time and not concentrate all the goodies in the FFA PvP camp.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
You took just one point out of contest. Banking on itself is not the issue here, being forced to do something because of the actions of another person without having a chance to defend or retreat is the issue.
If I fight in PvP where we are equals or even if not but I had the choice to retreat, but didn't take that choice - that is fine by me.
If I fight in PvP and I am not equal and i had no choice, no way of escaping then that is not fine by me.
In the 2nd scenario, no matter how often I bank - one person enforces their behavior upon another without the other person able to resist intelligently. Its like kicking someone when they are down and unresponcive. I cannot break this down into simpler terms. Its an issue of the concept of unfair competition. Banking often is just a damage control to prevent some loss (items/regs/mats), but it will not eliminate the unfair advantage one person has over another.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Why are you looking at a niche full loot ffa sandbox with progression again? Full fat pvp or not, you are not going to get 'fair fights' often in mmos. If you want pvp when you want it on a level basis play FPS games.
Secondly no one is forcing you to bank, you should simply do that as it's sensible to do so in a full loot game. What eliminates 'unfair advantage' is you actually, you know, skill up a bit in a game which has progression.....
Tell me, should I go onto the WoW forums, the LoTRO forums, hell any other pve mmo out there and demand them to change to full loot, full ffa pvp mechanics? No because that is not what they are about and doing so would be ridiculous, much like bemoaning the fact that a niche ffa full loot sandbox game has 'unfair' pvp and makes you bank often.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You are not forced to do any of that. You make your own choices. You think you are forced to do it because you think "better education=better future". Its true to a point, but not a fact. Even the law, you arent forced to obey it - but you will suffer the consequences. DF is more anarchic then real life because the consequences are.. practically non existant. What consequences you get for farming noobs? You get better standings so you can gank more of your own people. Maybe you get ganked by some guy who protects noobs and lose your gear - thats not as bad as a noob losing their gear. There are practically no consequences for being mean in DF. I'm not talking about hacking, just using standard DF mechanics for bad behaviour - noob killing, noob farming, kill stealing, corpse stealing, mount stealing, etc etc. Vets lose little, noobs lose a lot.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Again, you are contradicting yourself.
If everyone would be equal it would not be a sandbox.
You want a game with your own rules: everyone must be equal. This is not a sandbox.
In a sandbox all players are different. Some will be stronger than you, and some weaker. Just like in real life.
As IRL, you have the choice to improve yourself to catch up to the stronger ones -> in this way you are equal.
No. Of course you can play intelligently.
An intelligent player will adapt to the situation. For example, by teaming up with other players or getting into a clan. Or moving to an area policed and protected by other stronger players, etc.... just like in real life.
As for "unfair advantage one person has over another", again it's just like in real life, the greatest sandbox of all.
1) Thats the problem with DF, not getting fair fights. It CAN be done to BE full loot FFA PvP with either one of these:
- tiered PvP;
- safe zones;
- severe penalties to unfair combat;
I don't want to play FPS, I already have one that I play. I wan't to play FFA PvP MMORPG. DF is the closest thing to that at the moment.
2) Again, I explained several million times that in a system that DF has now, leveling up at times can be IMPOSSIBLE if you keep getting farmed and lose your items. Your leveling up depends not on you, but on someone else who wants to farm easy prey. I don't think you like the idea of someone walking into your room, turning off your monitor and telling you "You had enough for today, go clean up your closet".
3) You can, but it is highly unlikely that someone will listen. The main reason for this is - why change something that is highly sucessfull? You only change something that does not work well. DF does not work well. And you can keep telling me that "does not work well" is how it was designed, I will never agree with you. DF was not designed to work that way. Change of skill gain and health boost are just 2 examples of fixing something that was not working well. More to come I hope.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Noobs lose a lot? What the heck were you carrying around with you when you played, geez? Only carry/wear what you don't mind losing, it's not complicated.
In the beginning the only stuff I equipped and carried was the crap I was looting. Something tells me the way you went about things in this game wasn't exactly the wisest path. You really would have benefited from trying out different clans until you found one that fit. Then you could have been properly introduced to the game.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I tried Darkfall fr a short time. My main experiene was to get ganked at the noob area over and over again. Which sort of makes the game a useless waste of time. The graphics are nice, I enjoyed the archery system a lot. The community, well the non-existence of an actual functional community, seems comprised of a bunch of kids that think its fun to run around and gank every level 1 -5 they can find. Makes for a lot of fun so my recommendation... don't try it because if you aren't high enough level right off the start, your not going to get far unless you just hang in there till you get ganked to whatever level you need to be to start doing the same.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Nope, IRL you are forced, with "very little chance of resisting it", as you said.
You can refuse to go to school and refuse to work, but then you won't have much of a life. Just like in Darkfall.
But in DF there is more freedom than in the real world. Because IRL, if you gank noobs you can't play the game anymore (either you abide by the rules or you get killed or you go to jail); this isn't much of a choice is it?.
So looking at it this way, DF is more of a sandbox than real life.... it's just that compared to RL, DF is still laking many of the tools to play in the box.
1. It's a sandbox, tiered pvp and zones are not the remit of a sandbox game. Perhaps you should try WAR or AoC.
2. No it isn't. If you keep getting farmed then I am sorry but you are doing it wrong. Try moving somewhere that isn't a major hub which will attract PKers, try looking around and using the terrain. In my first two months of play I got killed a whopping 5 times whilst skilling up. More people actually came up to me and gave me gold/items then killed me and took them from me.
3. They are successful because the majority do not want ffa pvp, most players are casuals. Are you trying to imply that all games should strive to follow that model in the hopes of chasing millions of subs? Oddly enough some of us actually like full loot ffa progression games and DF caters for us. DF IS working as AV intended it to in terms of its pvp mechanics, what they have though done is balls up in not having a skill cap and the length of the grind.
Should DF ever become more carebear and tone down it's ffa pvp system then no doubt another developer will at some point make another niche mmo to cater to those of us who like the kind of pvp mechanics DF has now. I take it you will jump onto forums regarding that mmo as well hoping to get it 'toned down' to match all the other pvp lite mmos out there on the market place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/