A tool that keeps me from sitting around outside a dungeon calling "lfg" over chat while not progressing doing quests and such and is more likely to allow me to meet and group together with other players? Sounds jacked up to me. I'm going to go play a single player game.
Let's face facts folks, the main design of Rift is not to create a virtual world or an exploration heavy experience. It's primary a gear grinder, and the main focus is for players to keep running dungeons /raids endlessly in search of better and better gear. This mechanic is perfect for making this process as effcient as possible, so might as well put it in.
Trouble comes when you try to make Rift into an MMO that its not, then the tool becomes very undesireable, but for the stated design its the right decision.
Doesn't matter, it's still the wrong decision. Every change they make that makes Rift more like WoW just dooms them further. Sure, there's plenty of people who want to play an MMO similar to WoW that isn't WoW. But the more the game becomes just like WoW, the less reason even those players have to play it. The problem is WoW is too established and has too many perks compared to Rift. So in the end, even the majority of players looking for this type of game are just going to go back to WoW. Rifts are the only major difference, and they're by far not enough to hold the interest of most players. So the only chance Trion had with Rift was to correct the mistakes Blizzard made in WoW. Instead, they are making the same mistakes.
i was initially against the LFG tool but then i realized that its not going to really affect my experience of endgame dungeons. after people fail 10x in a row in an expert dungeon by grouping with random people that dont know what theyre doing, are undergeared, or dont really give a sh1t, they will go back to spamming LFG in chat or just wait for the friends/guildmates to log on.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
"One of the biggest improvements with the update is the addition of a Looking for Group tool. This was something everyone wanted, Hartsman said, but the team refused to rush it out the door in poor shape. It does what you would probably expect: Players can queue up for an instance by role (the system recognizes which builds you have and offers options for tank, healer, support and DPS) and then wait as the tool assembles the group for a cooperative adventure. Once a group is formed, the system thenn throws them into the maelstrom automatically. The LFG tool isn't just for dungeons, either; it's designed to help players get together for world quest content like epic or arena quests."
0 immersion.
Considering that Rift is a 0 immersion game to begin with, I happily accept this tool as finding groups can be very difficult given the dropping populations.
"One of the biggest improvements with the update is the addition of a Looking for Group tool. This was something everyone wanted, Hartsman said, but the team refused to rush it out the door in poor shape. It does what you would probably expect: Players can queue up for an instance by role (the system recognizes which builds you have and offers options for tank, healer, support and DPS) and then wait as the tool assembles the group for a cooperative adventure. Once a group is formed, the system thenn throws them into the maelstrom automatically. The LFG tool isn't just for dungeons, either; it's designed to help players get together for world quest content like epic or arena quests."
0 immersion.
Considering that Rift is a 0 immersion game to begin with, I happily accept this tool as finding groups can be very difficult given the dropping populations.
Byriel server and Faeblight are very healthy servers. I only can talk about those two because those are the ones I know about. I'm sure some shards are seeing a lower population though.
Different demographic? you mean casual players with busy lives who still want to enjoy MMOs in their given time? if yes why the hell not? i get 2 hrs maybe 3 if i manage to make my wife agree with me and i am not the only one with such little time to play everyday. If i can save my time where ever i can i surely would and LFG tool goes a long way in solving that time management problem. No i don't want to stand in town and spam LFG for hours i just want to play the game.
whoever you decide that demographic is.
I is confused, now. Why bother mentioning a demographic at all if you aren't going to explain which demographic you're talking about? I think we could all do without a little "Fill in the blanks" with regards to such a heated topic.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
He did explain what demographic he meant in an earlier post.
Besides, that it's kinda self explanatory.
I mean, if someone had said "Pizzerias are better for a demographic who are just looking for a good place to get a take-out pizza, while others might prefer the full dining experience of an Italian restaurant", the demographics being described are self-explanatory. One demographic prefers a straight-up pizzeria, the other prefers a full-blown restaurant.
In this case, one demographic prefers the more "instantaneous" nature of having everything done for you (seeking members, assembling the group, porting everyone to the spot, porting everyone back when done...).. The other prefers having the more personal type of system where players are communicating and assembling the group themselves, rather than let the game do it for them.
Sovrath includes himself in the latter category (as do I), but acknowledges that others prefer the former.
Not sure what you're confused about here. There is no "fill in the blanks".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Rift is a game not a world, nothing wrong with a LFG tool in a game.
If you want to play a MMO that is a world you are playing the wrong game already.
Very good observation, that
It's heartening to see more and more people distinguishing between a "world" and a "game".
While both could be categorically called "games", the design of each is very, very different.
I don't necessarily agree with this. All games for me start out as just that, games. As you play with friends and others, you gain experiences that give memories. Once these memories become nostalgia and harken back to the remember when, do games start to feel more like a world. If all you are looking for is mechanics, that's all you're going to see.
Rift is a game not a world, nothing wrong with a LFG tool in a game.
If you want to play a MMO that is a world you are playing the wrong game already.
Very good observation, that
It's heartening to see more and more people distinguishing between a "world" and a "game".
While both could be categorically called "games", the design of each is very, very different.
so, in your opinion which games qualify as worlds?
well right off the bat I would say that Lineage 2 has more of a world. Vanguard has more of a world. From my limited experience, DarkFall has more of a world.
And this doesn't necessarily have anything to do wtih the ffa pvp part. A place where the players interact, create things sell them but where one isn't doing raids and collecting tokens to turn into npc's for rewards, or where you run staged instances over and over again, etc.
There really is a palpable difference between how players interact with the world and each other in a game like Lineage 2 as opposed to Rift or LOTRO.
"Worlds" have more to do with plopping players down and letting them interact. Worls that are more like games have more to do wit scripted elements that take one away from being in a world and put one in a carnival setting.
so as above, I kill a boss, I get a token off the body for some reason and I turn it in. Whereas a world one would just find the rewards right there, no token turning in. Or one can enter a cave without there being a "you are not on the correct quest" popping up.
I suppose in the end it comes down to themepark/sandbox once again.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Its not even Theme-park vs Sandbox. While EVE is certainly a world (heck its a universe) DAOC was a great online world as well.
Worlds contain mechanics that require players to interact socially, be it crafting, grouping, traveling etc, to having the sheer size to feel expansion and players don't feel like their crammed into a small box. (Aion, Rift most recently went the small route)
Even WOW back in pre BC days was a nice world of sorts, but after playing Catacombs its clearly now more of a "game" with all its quick gratification tools designed to encourage limited player interaction and quick in and out play.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I suppose in the end it comes down to themepark/sandbox once again.
That's exactly it. The problem is most sandboxes die quick. Minecraft is the only thing I've seen that has taken off to such extent. EVE is a great game, but it also has under a million subs. Most companies are in it for the largest amount of possible subs. That is going to push them to themeparks. Perhaps things will change now. We'll have to wait and see how Minecraft works out in the long run. It's different from other sandbox games though too, so who knows what will come down the pipeline.
I can't guarantee that now PVP FFA Sandbox MMO will ever be a major success. The writings on the wall for the mainstream in the department. Doesn't mean that a themepark can't dable more in those waters though.
Its not even Theme-park vs Sandbox. While EVE is certainly a world (heck its a universe) DAOC was a great online world as well.
Worlds contain mechanics that require players to interact socially, be it crafting, grouping, traveling etc, to having the sheer size to feel expansion and players don't feel like their crammed into a small box. (Aion, Rift most recently went the small route)
Even WOW back in pre BC days was a nice world of sorts, but after playing Catacombs its clearly now more of a "game" with all its quick gratification tools designed to encourage limited player interaction and quick in and out play.
The EVE thing, while I agree is kind of disengenious. I mean do you really think it's hard or takes up a lot of programming space to do black with some stars in the distance and some set nodes?
This also applies to DAOC. The problem is the more you have to program for 'current' technology graphics to make a game look current = the less you can create. It's that simple.
Development Time without revenue is a loss for a business. Companies today must weigh in how 'nice' their game will look vs. content. Ask FF14 and AoC what can happen when you focus too much on one side and not enough on the other.
Rift hit it in the middle in my opinion. They got about Vanilla WoW size if you count how they tiered their landscape both above and below you.
Is the world as immersive as I would like. Nope. I find the more I play and discover, the more I like it though.
I'm hoping the new concept of 'SLIVERS' is going to add some meat to the bones we're talking about and fill in some of the gaps that people have been discussing.
I suppose in the end it comes down to themepark/sandbox once again.
That's exactly it. The problem is most sandboxes die quick. Minecraft is the only thing I've seen that has taken off to such extent. EVE is a great game, but it also has under a million subs. Most companies are in it for the largest amount of possible subs. That is going to push them to themeparks. Perhaps things will change now. We'll have to wait and see how Minecraft works out in the long run. It's different from other sandbox games though too, so who knows what will come down the pipeline.
I can guarantee that now PVP FFA Sandbox MMO will ever be a major success. The writings on the wall for the mainstream in the department. Doesn't mean that a themepark can't dable more in those waters though.
Less than a million subs isn't a failure. Heck, Eve still has more subscribers than most WoW clones ever get, and even then, Eve's playerbase doesn't play for a month then ditch.
Like with most business these days, there's far too much focus on get rich quick schemes, and barely any thought put towards reasonable and sustained customer relationships and growth.
A FFA PvP sandbox MMO I also doubt would do well. It's far too niche. A decently made sandbox where PvP is not the focus on the otherhand, could do quite well. The problem is, convincing stakeholders that they're simply not going to be able to clone the 300lb gorilla in the room.
The problem is, convincing stakeholders that they're simply not going to be able to clone the 300lb gorilla in the room.
Nail meet head. You honestly can't blame them unfortunately, until someone does it and is such a success that the rules change.
Going by the sub model -
The most successful games have been EQ, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, DAoC (not as successful, but diehard), Star Wars Galaxies.
All of the listed games at one point in their life have been able to sustained more subs than EVE currently has (which I think is around 600k?)
The problem is that stockholder's don't want sustained in a company, they want growth. CCP being an independent company has been the biggest boon to themselves and their players.
I is confused, now. Why bother mentioning a demographic at all if you aren't going to explain which demographic you're talking about? I think we could all do without a little "Fill in the blanks" with regards to such a heated topic.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
He did explain what demographic he meant in an earlier post.
Besides, that it's kinda self explanatory.
I mean, if someone had said "Pizzerias are better for a demographic who are just looking for a good place to get a take-out pizza, while others might prefer the full dining experience of an Italian restaurant", the demographics being described are self-explanatory. One demographic prefers a straight-up pizzeria, the other prefers a full-blown restaurant.
In this case, one demographic prefers the more "instantaneous" nature of having everything done for you (seeking members, assembling the group, porting everyone to the spot, porting everyone back when done...).. The other prefers having the more personal type of system where players are communicating and assembling the group themselves, rather than let the game do it for them.
Sovrath includes himself in the latter category (as do I), but acknowledges that others prefer the former.
Not sure what you're confused about here. There is no "fill in the blanks".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I feel sorry for those people that rolled on PvP servers looking for open world PvP. This will surely put a nail in that coffin. It was bad enough with being able to accept a queue for warfronts in midfight but now players that don't want the added risk of playing on a PvP server can queue up for warfronts and dungeons from the safety of Sanctum and Meridian and never leave if they don't care to.
Trion really confuses me because although Rift clearly emulates the more popular aspects of WoW- there are reasons players stopped playing WoW either long before playing Rift or to start playing it. I'm hoping in the future months Trion will focus on the mechanic the game is named after and bring others back to the world instead of leaving it a solo leveling by questing game until cap, then the same dungeons and raids recycled for currency as a gear grind. So far, very much a disappointment.
I feel sorry for those people that rolled on PvP servers looking for open world PvP. This will surely put a nail in that coffin. It was bad enough with being able to accept a queue for warfronts in midfight but now players that don't want the added risk of playing on a PvP server can queue up for warfronts and dungeons from the safety of Sanctum and Meridian and never leave if they don't care to.
Trion really confuses me because although Rift clearly emulates the more popular aspects of WoW- there are reasons players stopped playing WoW either long before playing Rift or to start playing it. I'm hoping in the future months Trion will focus on the mechanic the game is named after and bring others back to the world instead of leaving it a solo leveling by questing game until cap, then the same dungeons and raids recycled for currency as a gear grind. So far, very much a disappointment.
Why would anyone roll on a PVP server and then want to avoid PVP?
Regardless, this game does lack in the PVP department and I'm not surprised by that. They have some great potential, but players refuse to do it without some type of reward attached to it. Everyone needs the carrot.
Trion says that world PVP is in the works. Who knows how long that will take.
My guess is that it will be Port Scion - the zone not the WF.
There were plenty of posts against it being implemented, so they are either blind or don't read their own forums. So no idea how they can claim everyone wanted it.
Most expert runs are internal to guilds now anyway, so they are a bit to late. Grouping for quests, etc, was never an issue, as one "anyone want to do x" in chat usually works. All it does is create a scenario for less communication.
Not that they didn't anyway, but they are copying more and more from WoW it seems. It would be nice to see some innervations instead. If we wanted to play WoW, we'd play it.
This has been a point of hysteria since it was announced. A LOT of people have posted on both sides, but from what I've seen, many more wanted it than do not. Hence, its coming. I personally am looking forward to it. I'm LONG past tired of spamming the chat channhels in the hope of getting an instance group. This will help that enormously.
As for WoW, I have four 85's and an 82(and some 60's). I've played since late beta. Its a good game, all the way to level cap. Then its mainly raiding/PvP. Neither of which appeal to me. I suspect that Rift will eventually be the same, but for now I'm enjoying it.
There were plenty of posts against it being implemented, so they are either blind or don't read their own forums. So no idea how they can claim everyone wanted it.
Most expert runs are internal to guilds now anyway, so they are a bit to late. Grouping for quests, etc, was never an issue, as one "anyone want to do x" in chat usually works. All it does is create a scenario for less communication.
Not that they didn't anyway, but they are copying more and more from WoW it seems. It would be nice to see some innervations instead. If we wanted to play WoW, we'd play it.
This has been a point of hysteria since it was announced. A LOT of people have posted on both sides, but from what I've seen, many more wanted it than do not. Hence, its coming. I personally am looking forward to it. I'm LONG past tired of spamming the chat channhels in the hope of getting an instance group. This will help that enormously.
As for WoW, I have four 85's and an 82(and some 60's). I've played since late beta. Its a good game, all the way to level cap. Then its mainly raiding/PvP. Neither of which appeal to me. I suspect that Rift will eventually be the same, but for now I'm enjoying it.
No it won't as unlike WoW's version it won't address the lack of people looking on a given server. You'll just be waiting in a queue, instead of asking.
No it won't as unlike WoW's version it won't address the lack of people looking on a given server. You'll just be waiting in a queue, instead of asking.
Not exactly true. Healers and Tanks never wait right?
Why is that?
Because DPS is easy and everyone wants to do it because it's easy.
Guess what, you want a group? Tank or Heal. You have options. Instead of having to create a new character, you can just click on the role button and switch. Bam! You're in a group.
The only people whom will have problems getting groups in this game are the people whom want to only DPS all the time.
Sorry, the one build time has passed.
Me?
I DPS/Tank/Support and I've been working and learning on it, so that I'm good.
No it won't as unlike WoW's version it won't address the lack of people looking on a given server. You'll just be waiting in a queue, instead of asking.
Not exactly true. Healers and Tanks never wait right?
Why is that?
Because DPS is easy and everyone wants to do it because it's easy.
Guess what, you want a group? Tank or Heal. You have options. Instead of having to create a new character, you can just click on the role button and switch. Bam! You're in a group.
The only people whom will have problems getting groups in this game are the people whom want to only DPS all the time.
Sorry, the one build time has passed.
Me?
I DPS/Tank/Support and I've been working and learning on it, so that I'm good.
and I never have to wait.
First thing to come to mind when someone mentions Healing/Tanking being "harder," is this:
The problem is, convincing stakeholders that they're simply not going to be able to clone the 300lb gorilla in the room.
Nail meet head. You honestly can't blame them unfortunately, until someone does it and is such a success that the rules change.
Going by the sub model -
The most successful games have been EQ, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, DAoC (not as successful, but diehard), Star Wars Galaxies.
All of the listed games at one point in their life have been able to sustained more subs than EVE currently has (which I think is around 600k?)
The problem is that stockholder's don't want sustained in a company, they want growth. CCP being an independent company has been the biggest boon to themselves and their players.
Eve has now more subs when eq1, eq2, lotro and daoc ever head. Check out at http://www.mmodata.net/
Actually there are some ffa pvp sandboxes in asia, called lineage 1 & 2 (are they sandboxes? not 100% sure how well they fit the definition). They sustained 3-4 mio subs over the last 10 years - beside wow for sure the most successful mmo. Currently the inofficial successor is developed, called archeage. You may assume that it beats rift and all other wow-clones sub-wise easily. Still we are waiting for a western developer to wake up.
@watchawatcha: the dungeon finder tool does not magically increase the number of players online. It does not help in finding groups - it just removes the part of the game that is not needed for looting
Originally posted by jonesing22 yeah....before I start heres a link. http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/04/22/an-exclusive-look-at-rifts-update-1-2-and-beyond-with-scott-har/ "One of the biggest improvements with the update is the addition of a Looking for Group tool. This was something everyone wanted, Hartsman said, but the team refused to rush it out the door in poor shape. It does what you would probably expect: Players can queue up for an instance by role (the system recognizes which builds you have and offers options for tank, healer, support and DPS) and then wait as the tool assembles the group for a cooperative adventure. Once a group is formed, the system thenn throws them into the maelstrom automatically. The LFG tool isn't just for dungeons, either; it's designed to help players get together for world quest content like epic or arena quests." 0 immersion.
Wait... did you say... "0 Immersion."?
OK, I would not have thought Rift had much immersion due to it's design. I learned something new today.
As for whether the Devs are reading posts of the official forums or not... It is becoming quite obvious to me that most Devs don't read forums anymore, at all. Instead they are staying in touch with "the community" via Twitter and Facebook.
If you wnat something for Rift, or do not want something, try using Facebook or Twitter to get the Devs attention. That may work better.
(I won't use either Facebook or Twitter, cause I am an old fart and hate change, but it appears this is the way to talk to these people now whether people like me like it or not.)
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Comments
A tool that keeps me from sitting around outside a dungeon calling "lfg" over chat while not progressing doing quests and such and is more likely to allow me to meet and group together with other players? Sounds jacked up to me. I'm going to go play a single player game.
Doesn't matter, it's still the wrong decision. Every change they make that makes Rift more like WoW just dooms them further. Sure, there's plenty of people who want to play an MMO similar to WoW that isn't WoW. But the more the game becomes just like WoW, the less reason even those players have to play it. The problem is WoW is too established and has too many perks compared to Rift. So in the end, even the majority of players looking for this type of game are just going to go back to WoW. Rifts are the only major difference, and they're by far not enough to hold the interest of most players. So the only chance Trion had with Rift was to correct the mistakes Blizzard made in WoW. Instead, they are making the same mistakes.
RIP Rift.
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i was initially against the LFG tool but then i realized that its not going to really affect my experience of endgame dungeons. after people fail 10x in a row in an expert dungeon by grouping with random people that dont know what theyre doing, are undergeared, or dont really give a sh1t, they will go back to spamming LFG in chat or just wait for the friends/guildmates to log on.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Considering that Rift is a 0 immersion game to begin with, I happily accept this tool as finding groups can be very difficult given the dropping populations.
Byriel server and Faeblight are very healthy servers. I only can talk about those two because those are the ones I know about. I'm sure some shards are seeing a lower population though.
He did explain what demographic he meant in an earlier post.
Besides, that it's kinda self explanatory.
I mean, if someone had said "Pizzerias are better for a demographic who are just looking for a good place to get a take-out pizza, while others might prefer the full dining experience of an Italian restaurant", the demographics being described are self-explanatory. One demographic prefers a straight-up pizzeria, the other prefers a full-blown restaurant.
In this case, one demographic prefers the more "instantaneous" nature of having everything done for you (seeking members, assembling the group, porting everyone to the spot, porting everyone back when done...).. The other prefers having the more personal type of system where players are communicating and assembling the group themselves, rather than let the game do it for them.
Sovrath includes himself in the latter category (as do I), but acknowledges that others prefer the former.
Not sure what you're confused about here. There is no "fill in the blanks".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Very good observation, that
It's heartening to see more and more people distinguishing between a "world" and a "game".
While both could be categorically called "games", the design of each is very, very different.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
so, in your opinion which games qualify as worlds?
I don't necessarily agree with this. All games for me start out as just that, games. As you play with friends and others, you gain experiences that give memories. Once these memories become nostalgia and harken back to the remember when, do games start to feel more like a world. If all you are looking for is mechanics, that's all you're going to see.
well right off the bat I would say that Lineage 2 has more of a world. Vanguard has more of a world. From my limited experience, DarkFall has more of a world.
And this doesn't necessarily have anything to do wtih the ffa pvp part. A place where the players interact, create things sell them but where one isn't doing raids and collecting tokens to turn into npc's for rewards, or where you run staged instances over and over again, etc.
There really is a palpable difference between how players interact with the world and each other in a game like Lineage 2 as opposed to Rift or LOTRO.
"Worlds" have more to do with plopping players down and letting them interact. Worls that are more like games have more to do wit scripted elements that take one away from being in a world and put one in a carnival setting.
so as above, I kill a boss, I get a token off the body for some reason and I turn it in. Whereas a world one would just find the rewards right there, no token turning in. Or one can enter a cave without there being a "you are not on the correct quest" popping up.
I suppose in the end it comes down to themepark/sandbox once again.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Its not even Theme-park vs Sandbox. While EVE is certainly a world (heck its a universe) DAOC was a great online world as well.
Worlds contain mechanics that require players to interact socially, be it crafting, grouping, traveling etc, to having the sheer size to feel expansion and players don't feel like their crammed into a small box. (Aion, Rift most recently went the small route)
Even WOW back in pre BC days was a nice world of sorts, but after playing Catacombs its clearly now more of a "game" with all its quick gratification tools designed to encourage limited player interaction and quick in and out play.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's exactly it. The problem is most sandboxes die quick. Minecraft is the only thing I've seen that has taken off to such extent. EVE is a great game, but it also has under a million subs. Most companies are in it for the largest amount of possible subs. That is going to push them to themeparks. Perhaps things will change now. We'll have to wait and see how Minecraft works out in the long run. It's different from other sandbox games though too, so who knows what will come down the pipeline.
I can't guarantee that now PVP FFA Sandbox MMO will ever be a major success. The writings on the wall for the mainstream in the department. Doesn't mean that a themepark can't dable more in those waters though.
The EVE thing, while I agree is kind of disengenious. I mean do you really think it's hard or takes up a lot of programming space to do black with some stars in the distance and some set nodes?
This also applies to DAOC. The problem is the more you have to program for 'current' technology graphics to make a game look current = the less you can create. It's that simple.
Development Time without revenue is a loss for a business. Companies today must weigh in how 'nice' their game will look vs. content. Ask FF14 and AoC what can happen when you focus too much on one side and not enough on the other.
Rift hit it in the middle in my opinion. They got about Vanilla WoW size if you count how they tiered their landscape both above and below you.
Is the world as immersive as I would like. Nope. I find the more I play and discover, the more I like it though.
I'm hoping the new concept of 'SLIVERS' is going to add some meat to the bones we're talking about and fill in some of the gaps that people have been discussing.
Less than a million subs isn't a failure. Heck, Eve still has more subscribers than most WoW clones ever get, and even then, Eve's playerbase doesn't play for a month then ditch.
Like with most business these days, there's far too much focus on get rich quick schemes, and barely any thought put towards reasonable and sustained customer relationships and growth.
A FFA PvP sandbox MMO I also doubt would do well. It's far too niche. A decently made sandbox where PvP is not the focus on the otherhand, could do quite well. The problem is, convincing stakeholders that they're simply not going to be able to clone the 300lb gorilla in the room.
Nail meet head. You honestly can't blame them unfortunately, until someone does it and is such a success that the rules change.
Going by the sub model -
The most successful games have been EQ, EQ2, WoW, LOTRO, DAoC (not as successful, but diehard), Star Wars Galaxies.
All of the listed games at one point in their life have been able to sustained more subs than EVE currently has (which I think is around 600k?)
The problem is that stockholder's don't want sustained in a company, they want growth. CCP being an independent company has been the biggest boon to themselves and their players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I feel sorry for those people that rolled on PvP servers looking for open world PvP. This will surely put a nail in that coffin. It was bad enough with being able to accept a queue for warfronts in midfight but now players that don't want the added risk of playing on a PvP server can queue up for warfronts and dungeons from the safety of Sanctum and Meridian and never leave if they don't care to.
Trion really confuses me because although Rift clearly emulates the more popular aspects of WoW- there are reasons players stopped playing WoW either long before playing Rift or to start playing it. I'm hoping in the future months Trion will focus on the mechanic the game is named after and bring others back to the world instead of leaving it a solo leveling by questing game until cap, then the same dungeons and raids recycled for currency as a gear grind. So far, very much a disappointment.
Why would anyone roll on a PVP server and then want to avoid PVP?
Regardless, this game does lack in the PVP department and I'm not surprised by that. They have some great potential, but players refuse to do it without some type of reward attached to it. Everyone needs the carrot.
Trion says that world PVP is in the works. Who knows how long that will take.
My guess is that it will be Port Scion - the zone not the WF.
This has been a point of hysteria since it was announced. A LOT of people have posted on both sides, but from what I've seen, many more wanted it than do not. Hence, its coming. I personally am looking forward to it. I'm LONG past tired of spamming the chat channhels in the hope of getting an instance group. This will help that enormously.
As for WoW, I have four 85's and an 82(and some 60's). I've played since late beta. Its a good game, all the way to level cap. Then its mainly raiding/PvP. Neither of which appeal to me. I suspect that Rift will eventually be the same, but for now I'm enjoying it.
No it won't as unlike WoW's version it won't address the lack of people looking on a given server. You'll just be waiting in a queue, instead of asking.
Not exactly true. Healers and Tanks never wait right?
Why is that?
Because DPS is easy and everyone wants to do it because it's easy.
Guess what, you want a group? Tank or Heal. You have options. Instead of having to create a new character, you can just click on the role button and switch. Bam! You're in a group.
The only people whom will have problems getting groups in this game are the people whom want to only DPS all the time.
Sorry, the one build time has passed.
Me?
I DPS/Tank/Support and I've been working and learning on it, so that I'm good.
and I never have to wait.
First thing to come to mind when someone mentions Healing/Tanking being "harder," is this:
{mod edit -resized image}
.. But in a good way.
Eve has now more subs when eq1, eq2, lotro and daoc ever head. Check out at http://www.mmodata.net/
Actually there are some ffa pvp sandboxes in asia, called lineage 1 & 2 (are they sandboxes? not 100% sure how well they fit the definition). They sustained 3-4 mio subs over the last 10 years - beside wow for sure the most successful mmo. Currently the inofficial successor is developed, called archeage. You may assume that it beats rift and all other wow-clones sub-wise easily. Still we are waiting for a western developer to wake up.
@watchawatcha: the dungeon finder tool does not magically increase the number of players online. It does not help in finding groups - it just removes the part of the game that is not needed for looting
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
I'm not sure why everyone wants this when most people on this forum state that WoW's LFG sucks (Apparently it ruins the community).
Hypocrites.
Anyway, I think it's a great idea that they're implementing a LFG tool. It makes getting a group a whole lot easier.
Wait... did you say... "0 Immersion."?
OK, I would not have thought Rift had much immersion due to it's design. I learned something new today.
As for whether the Devs are reading posts of the official forums or not... It is becoming quite obvious to me that most Devs don't read forums anymore, at all. Instead they are staying in touch with "the community" via Twitter and Facebook.
If you wnat something for Rift, or do not want something, try using Facebook or Twitter to get the Devs attention. That may work better.
(I won't use either Facebook or Twitter, cause I am an old fart and hate change, but it appears this is the way to talk to these people now whether people like me like it or not.)
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...