I would re-edit and delete any offensive use of language if I were you. Any valid points you may have made will get moderated and deleted and your account possibly suspended due to the way you're trying to promote said points.
As I predicted, language will become rude and you will have to "enjoy" an evening with people you don't like.
I would re-edit and delete any offensive use of language if I were you. Any valid points you may have made will get moderated and deleted and your account possibly suspended due to the way you're trying to promote said points.
As I predicted, language will become rude and you will have to "enjoy" an evening with people you don't like.
@Clywd: this is my hesitation too. Good news that it is not cross-server but I'm still not sure if I'll "dare" to use the LFG tool.
The traditional way of forming a group can tell you quite a lot about the person. When in the mood I will form a group. When I do I type things out properly and add a comment or two that will let people know I'm sociable, take dungeons slowly and I'm an older gamer. This often results in a decent group, though it isn't perfect.
Is this possible with the LFG tool? We'll see I suppose. How does it work in WoW? Is there any way to reduce the chances of grouping with zerging non-social gear junkies?
The game isnt a holy trinity class system, buffer debuffs are very active. Most guilds run an archon/bard for buffs debuffs. A lot of dungeon runs go alot smoother with bards/chloros on top of the normal cleric tank dps run.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
I don't have a problem with the tool itself. I do have a problem with the fact that it makes people even lazier than they were. Finding groups with the tool is acceptable and very convenient in my opinion. Instant teleporting people to the dungeon is not however. You could already port the entire group already, why make it even easier? People are too lazy to actually travel through the world to go to a dungeon? With the porticulum system, it only takes a few minutes anyways. Why even have a world? Why not let us sit in lobbies and load the instance like a FPS shooter?
This won't make me quit, but it does piss me off quite a bit. I hated it in WoW, it will be the same in Rift.
Wow, what will people freak out about next? If you dont like it then dont use it. How will it break your immersion if you dont use it?
Its all part and parcel of key mechanics that lead to a cold and callous community as found in WOW. (Generally speaking of course)
Anyone that's played WOW knows the drill. You queue up for a group, get thrown into a group of people you've never met (and probably will never run into again since they are from ANOTHER SERVER) and then everyone barks out commands by a person's class...Mage CC, Priest..Heal Me, etc. Since grouping is so easy and painless, members in your group drop group at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
Yes, this makes things MUCH easier for folks that don't like being troubled with all thats involved in grouping (ironic isn't it). But there are (positive) unintended consequences related to taking the time to form your own group. The initiavie it takes to build a group, the knowledge of other classes to understand which classes you need for this particular dungeon.....hell even the 30 minute run to the dungeon will cause you to think twice before dropping the group in a silly jealous moment because someone else won a roll on an item you needed . Maybe you work through an issue someone is having in a group instead of being faced with having to manually put together (or find) another group. That conflict resolution and initiave bleeds through other aspects of game play....and it shows given todays current playerbase.
Wow, what will people freak out about next? If you dont like it then dont use it. How will it break your immersion if you dont use it?
Its all part and parcel of key mechanics that lead to a cold and callous community as found in WOW. (Generally speaking of course)
Anyone that's played WOW knows the drill. You queue up for a group, get thrown into a group of people you've never met (and probably will never run into again since they are from ANOTHER SERVER) and then everyone barks out commands by a person's class...Mage CC, Priest..Heal Me, etc. Since grouping is so easy and painless, members in your group drop group at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
Yes, this makes things MUCH easier for folks that don't like being troubled with all thats involved in grouping (ironic isn't it). But there are (positive) unintended consequences related to taking the time to form your own group. The initiavie it takes to build a group, the knowledge of other classes to understand which classes you need for this particular dungeon.....hell even the 30 minute run to the dungeon will cause you to think twice before dropping the group in a silly jealous moment because someone else won a roll on an item you needed . Maybe you work through an issue someone is having in a group instead of being faced with having to manually put together (or find) another group. That conflict resolution and initiave bleeds through other aspects of game play....and it shows given todays current playerbase.
Weird.
You are talking about community like its somehow related to cross server grouping. As if the current state of how people act "in game" is directly tied to it or say the wow community.
Or that *gasp* people never solo'd back in the day or were anti social even.
In Ultima Online I used to talk to a lot of people but out in the virtual world I only hunted with a very few. So somehow the game had this great community even tho we didn't group for dungeons. Yet you are saying that people who don't like to group or that it being so easy to group has made the current communities what they are.
Why does grouping have anything to do with community in your mind?
In EQ back in 1999... when I was one of a handful of clerics I grouped all the time. In fact I would be swamped with messages from people asking me to join their group while healing the group I was in. We didn't have much of any fights in groups over items but we certainly had jerks... and thus the invention of "the list".
You wanna see a bad seed in the community suddenly try to fit in? Try playing a game where sure you can solo but if you want a certain nice item you need a group. Then based on your personal in game actions finding out nobody will group with you...
Community is what it is in todays games because there is absolutely no consequence to your actions within the community. As well as the fact most people turn off general channels due to the absolutely mind numbing stupidity that passes for "chat" or they spend all day adding people to /ignore. Then new people who have valid questions quite often don't even get an answer because so much of the community has isolated its self...
and I'm sorry but EQ was still a very popular game when the virtual community started to go down in the spiral swirl... so its not WoW or random dungeon groups. If you don't like wow or random cross server groups that's fine and I respect your choice there.
However, these things have absolutely nothing to do with why the community is the way it is right now. In fact given the average person in the virtual community these days.. I'd rather just not play MMO's at all.
Wow, what will people freak out about next? If you dont like it then dont use it. How will it break your immersion if you dont use it?
Its all part and parcel of key mechanics that lead to a cold and callous community as found in WOW. (Generally speaking of course)
Anyone that's played WOW knows the drill. You queue up for a group, get thrown into a group of people you've never met (and probably will never run into again since they are from ANOTHER SERVER) and then everyone barks out commands by a person's class...Mage CC, Priest..Heal Me, etc. Since grouping is so easy and painless, members in your group drop group at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
Yes, this makes things MUCH easier for folks that don't like being troubled with all thats involved in grouping (ironic isn't it). But there are (positive) unintended consequences related to taking the time to form your own group. The initiavie it takes to build a group, the knowledge of other classes to understand which classes you need for this particular dungeon.....hell even the 30 minute run to the dungeon will cause you to think twice before dropping the group in a silly jealous moment because someone else won a roll on an item you needed . Maybe you work through an issue someone is having in a group instead of being faced with having to manually put together (or find) another group. That conflict resolution and initiave bleeds through other aspects of game play....and it shows given todays current playerbase.
Weird.
You are talking about community like its somehow related to cross server grouping. As if the current state of how people act "in game" is directly tied to it or say the wow community.
Or that *gasp* people never solo'd back in the day or were anti social even.
In Ultima Online I used to talk to a lot of people but out in the virtual world I only hunted with a very few. So somehow the game had this great community even tho we didn't group for dungeons. Yet you are saying that people who don't like to group or that it being so easy to group has made the current communities what they are.
Why does grouping have anything to do with community in your mind?
In EQ back in 1999... when I was one of a handful of clerics I grouped all the time. In fact I would be swamped with messages from people asking me to join their group while healing the group I was in. We didn't have much of any fights in groups over items but we certainly had jerks... and thus the invention of "the list".
You wanna see a bad seed in the community suddenly try to fit in? Try playing a game where sure you can solo but if you want a certain nice item you need a group. Then based on your personal in game actions finding out nobody will group with you...
Community is what it is in todays games because there is absolutely no consequence to your actions within the community. As well as the fact most people turn off general channels due to the absolutely mind numbing stupidity that passes for "chat" or they spend all day adding people to /ignore. Then new people who have valid questions quite often don't even get an answer because so much of the community has isolated its self...
and I'm sorry but EQ was still a very popular game when the virtual community started to go down in the spiral swirl... so its not WoW or random dungeon groups. If you don't like wow or random cross server groups that's fine and I respect your choice there.
However, these things have absolutely nothing to do with why the community is the way it is right now. In fact given the average person in the virtual community these days.. I'd rather just not play MMO's at all.
Good post. But you left the question open, what was the reason for the change in the community? I would think that each game gets the community it deserves, but you argue that you can do what you want (as a game developer), you will always end up with a bad com - but why? Because nowadays every dumbass can come online and play a MMO, while in former times only the smartest and most social guys played? Come on, seriously? Or did I miss something?
Well, we all knew it was coming. That's why I never gave them any money. Immersion isn't something one should look for in a post WoW MMO unless it's made by an indie dev. This LFG tool just furthers my argument that modern MMOs are more like Diablo with monthly fees than a real MMO. It's so anti social, and anyone who thinks it isn't... rethink things.
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
Well, we all knew it was coming. That's why I never gave them any money. Immersion isn't something one should look for in a post WoW MMO unless it's made by an indie dev. This LFG tool just furthers my argument that modern MMOs are more like Diablo with monthly fees than a real MMO. It's so anti social, and anyone who thinks it isn't... rethink things.
I have done plenty of re thinking and you are wrong. LFG tool helps people to do group content more and not less. People with low populated servers will benefit from it most. Those who stick to their guild groups for dungeon runs they have nothing to complain about. For everyone else it is still as random as getting a group together by spamming LFG for an hour or more. No difference at all.
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
I'm against PvP battlegrounds the same as I'm against LFG dungeon finder tools. Being instantly teleported into content is immersion breaking. If you can't run a couple minutes to your content, something is seriously wrong with people. Like I said eariler, why even have the world? Just make instanced content like GW and let people queue up in lobbies. That's what Trion is going to turn this into. It will be the same thing with rifts and quests. You can open the LFG tool and be teleported instantly to any kind of grouped action in any zone. Trion spent so much time creating a world, and now they are destroying it's usefulness. Mark my words. In less than ten years at this pace, mainstream MMO's are going to be nothing but lobby games. They will cater to the casual to make the extra buck. This is where sandbox needs to make a push, and people will embrace it.
I'm against PvP battlegrounds the same as I'm against LFG dungeon finder tools. Being instantly teleported into content is immersion breaking. If you can't run a couple minutes to your content, something is seriously wrong with people. Like I said eariler, why even have the world? Just make instanced content like GW and let people queue up in lobbies. That's what Trion is going to turn this into. It will be the same thing with rifts and quests. You can open the LFG tool and be teleported instantly to any kind of grouped action in any zone. Trion spent so much time creating a world, and now they are destroying it's usefulness. Mark my words. In less than ten years at this pace, mainstream MMO's are going to be nothing but lobby games. They will cater to the casual to make the extra buck. This is where sandbox needs to make a push, and people will embrace it.
Yet you're fine with all the random horn sounds random on-screen text, and random monsters appearing out of thin air whenever there's an invasion in the zone you're in?
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
The only people actually arguing are the people in favor of the dungeon queue tool.Those of us against it stated we're probably quitting, at least partially due to the tool, and explained why. The people in favor of the queue refuse to accept the explanation, for whatever reason, and try to argue about it.
In a nutshell, there's many of us that don't want such a tool in our game, and if they put it in we won't play it. Simple as that. Nothing to argue about at all. For myself in particular, there's plenty of other MMOs out there, no need to waste my time and money on one that doesn't offer what I want.
So if you want to whine about people arguing, start talking to the ones in favor of the dungeon queue. In the meantime, with what you posted, you're just adding to the arguing.
I'm against PvP battlegrounds the same as I'm against LFG dungeon finder tools. Being instantly teleported into content is immersion breaking. If you can't run a couple minutes to your content, something is seriously wrong with people. Like I said eariler, why even have the world? Just make instanced content like GW and let people queue up in lobbies. That's what Trion is going to turn this into. It will be the same thing with rifts and quests. You can open the LFG tool and be teleported instantly to any kind of grouped action in any zone. Trion spent so much time creating a world, and now they are destroying it's usefulness. Mark my words. In less than ten years at this pace, mainstream MMO's are going to be nothing but lobby games. They will cater to the casual to make the extra buck. This is where sandbox needs to make a push, and people will embrace it.
Yet you're fine with all the random horn sounds random on-screen text, and random monsters appearing out of thin air whenever there's an invasion in the zone you're in?
Different things break immersion for different people.
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
The only people actually arguing are the people in favor of the dungeon queue tool.Those of us against it stated we're probably quitting, at least partially due to the tool, and explained why. The people in favor of the queue refuse to accept the explanation, for whatever reason, and try to argue about it.
In a nutshell, there's many of us that don't want such a tool in our game, and if they put it in we won't play it. Simple as that. Nothing to argue about at all. For myself in particular, there's plenty of other MMOs out there, no need to waste my time and money on one that doesn't offer what I want.
So if you want to whine about people arguing, start talking to the ones in favor of the dungeon queue. In the meantime, with what you posted, you're just adding to the arguing.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
I'm against PvP battlegrounds the same as I'm against LFG dungeon finder tools. Being instantly teleported into content is immersion breaking. If you can't run a couple minutes to your content, something is seriously wrong with people. Like I said eariler, why even have the world? Just make instanced content like GW and let people queue up in lobbies. That's what Trion is going to turn this into. It will be the same thing with rifts and quests. You can open the LFG tool and be teleported instantly to any kind of grouped action in any zone. Trion spent so much time creating a world, and now they are destroying it's usefulness. Mark my words. In less than ten years at this pace, mainstream MMO's are going to be nothing but lobby games. They will cater to the casual to make the extra buck. This is where sandbox needs to make a push, and people will embrace it.
Yet you're fine with all the random horn sounds random on-screen text, and random monsters appearing out of thin air whenever there's an invasion in the zone you're in?
Different things break immersion for different people.
I can see that as being true in some cases, but I legitimately fail to see the differences between the three things I listed and being instantly teleported into a dungeon. I think it's a case of this individual being a little too conveniently selective on what exactly constitutes immersion, which is a major problem I have with much of this whole "it breaks my immersion" argument. You could say just about anything breaks your immersion if you simply didn't like it.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
Maybe you start reading at page 1 and not 22 - there are quite a few people who have posted their negative feeling about this tool. Beside the majority of gamers who don't like this kind of tool just silently quit, or have been wise enough to not even buy this game.
As usual, a matter of taste. There are still thousands of people playing diablo and having fun, and there are still thousands of people playing eq1 and having fun. While I am more in the eq1-camp, I still don't blame the diablo-guys to be senseless or stupid, like you did the other way around. Maybe that's the reason why I'm in the eq1-camp ;-)
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
The only people actually arguing are the people in favor of the dungeon queue tool.Those of us against it stated we're probably quitting, at least partially due to the tool, and explained why. The people in favor of the queue refuse to accept the explanation, for whatever reason, and try to argue about it.
In a nutshell, there's many of us that don't want such a tool in our game, and if they put it in we won't play it. Simple as that. Nothing to argue about at all. For myself in particular, there's plenty of other MMOs out there, no need to waste my time and money on one that doesn't offer what I want.
So if you want to whine about people arguing, start talking to the ones in favor of the dungeon queue. In the meantime, with what you posted, you're just adding to the arguing.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
I, and pretty much everyone in this thread against the queue tool gave good reasoning. You don't like the reasoning, who knows why? Because you're a fanboy? Who knows. But guess what. I DON'T CARE. Bottom line is your opinion means absolutely zero when it comes to what I want in an MMO and which MMO I'll spend my money on. My opinion, on the other hand, matters a great deal.
So in the end, here's all YOU need to know: I don't want an MMO with a dungeon queue tool. If they put it in, I'm quitting.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
Maybe you start reading at page 1 and not 22 - there are quite a few people who have posted their negative feeling about this tool. Beside the majority of gamers who don't like this kind of tool just silently quit, or have been wise enough to not even buy this game.
As usual, a matter of taste. There are still thousands of people playing diablo and having fun, and there are still thousands of people playing eq1 and having fun. While I am more in the eq1-camp, I still don't blame the diablo-guys to be senseless or stupid, like you did the other way around. Maybe that's the reason why I'm in the eq1-camp ;-)
Different things for different people <shrug> Dungeon Finder in WoW is what brought me back to the game after I'd burned out. Since I do not raid(I lack the sustained focus required) it allowed me to gear up my five 80's to a much greater extent than I'd have believed possible. Then of course Ghostcrawler managed to cripple DF in Cata... More of his typical short sightedness. I'm hoping that the Rift version is at least as good as the original DF.
I've played these games since UO. I've tried EQ1 but could never really get into it. Then I tried Asherons Call, and played it for a couple of years. Good game, but really nasty death penalties. I also liked Diablo and D2, but I burned out after I had two in the high 80's. Anyway, I suspect that those who would quit because of a LFG tool, would have quit soon in any event.
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
The only people actually arguing are the people in favor of the dungeon queue tool.Those of us against it stated we're probably quitting, at least partially due to the tool, and explained why. The people in favor of the queue refuse to accept the explanation, for whatever reason, and try to argue about it.
In a nutshell, there's many of us that don't want such a tool in our game, and if they put it in we won't play it. Simple as that. Nothing to argue about at all. For myself in particular, there's plenty of other MMOs out there, no need to waste my time and money on one that doesn't offer what I want.
So if you want to whine about people arguing, start talking to the ones in favor of the dungeon queue. In the meantime, with what you posted, you're just adding to the arguing.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
I, and pretty much everyone in this thread against the queue tool gave good reasoning. You don't like the reasoning, who knows why? Because you're a fanboy? Who knows. But guess what. I DON'T CARE. Bottom line is your opinion means absolutely zero when it comes to what I want in an MMO and which MMO I'll spend my money on. My opinion, on the other hand, matters a great deal.
So in the end, here's all YOU need to know: I don't want an MMO with a dungeon queue tool. If they put it in, I'm quitting.
Well, the head Dev said that there WILL be one in the next release due in another week or two. Its a done deal. Not up for discussion or debate. Personally, I'm happy to see it. I wish I'd had it at launch. I wish you all the best in finding a new game that you can enjoy.
Well, the head Dev said that there WILL be one in the next release due in another week or two. Its a done deal. Not up for discussion or debate. Personally, I'm happy to see it. I wish I'd had it at launch. I wish you all the best in finding a new game that you can enjoy.
Indeed, and that's why I already canceled my sub. I've always got several games that I play, so quitting one is no big deal. I just put more time into another one. Then later, I'll stumble across another one that's fun.
Also like I've said before, I have no issue with people who know what a queue tool brings and know it's what they want. Some people really do prefer that type of game. Just don't expect the game to stay the same, because it won't.
Comments
As I predicted, language will become rude and you will have to "enjoy" an evening with people you don't like.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
@Clywd: this is my hesitation too. Good news that it is not cross-server but I'm still not sure if I'll "dare" to use the LFG tool.
The traditional way of forming a group can tell you quite a lot about the person. When in the mood I will form a group. When I do I type things out properly and add a comment or two that will let people know I'm sociable, take dungeons slowly and I'm an older gamer. This often results in a decent group, though it isn't perfect.
Is this possible with the LFG tool? We'll see I suppose. How does it work in WoW? Is there any way to reduce the chances of grouping with zerging non-social gear junkies?
this system actually sounds great for an game like this with basic holy trinity class system.
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The game isnt a holy trinity class system, buffer debuffs are very active. Most guilds run an archon/bard for buffs debuffs. A lot of dungeon runs go alot smoother with bards/chloros on top of the normal cleric tank dps run.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Please stick to the topic of Rift. If you wish to discuss FFXIV, we have a forum for that. Thanks.
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I don't have a problem with the tool itself. I do have a problem with the fact that it makes people even lazier than they were. Finding groups with the tool is acceptable and very convenient in my opinion. Instant teleporting people to the dungeon is not however. You could already port the entire group already, why make it even easier? People are too lazy to actually travel through the world to go to a dungeon? With the porticulum system, it only takes a few minutes anyways. Why even have a world? Why not let us sit in lobbies and load the instance like a FPS shooter?
This won't make me quit, but it does piss me off quite a bit. I hated it in WoW, it will be the same in Rift.
Its all part and parcel of key mechanics that lead to a cold and callous community as found in WOW. (Generally speaking of course)
Anyone that's played WOW knows the drill. You queue up for a group, get thrown into a group of people you've never met (and probably will never run into again since they are from ANOTHER SERVER) and then everyone barks out commands by a person's class...Mage CC, Priest..Heal Me, etc. Since grouping is so easy and painless, members in your group drop group at the first sign of conflict or trouble.
Yes, this makes things MUCH easier for folks that don't like being troubled with all thats involved in grouping (ironic isn't it). But there are (positive) unintended consequences related to taking the time to form your own group. The initiavie it takes to build a group, the knowledge of other classes to understand which classes you need for this particular dungeon.....hell even the 30 minute run to the dungeon will cause you to think twice before dropping the group in a silly jealous moment because someone else won a roll on an item you needed . Maybe you work through an issue someone is having in a group instead of being faced with having to manually put together (or find) another group. That conflict resolution and initiave bleeds through other aspects of game play....and it shows given todays current playerbase.
Weird.
You are talking about community like its somehow related to cross server grouping. As if the current state of how people act "in game" is directly tied to it or say the wow community.
Or that *gasp* people never solo'd back in the day or were anti social even.
In Ultima Online I used to talk to a lot of people but out in the virtual world I only hunted with a very few. So somehow the game had this great community even tho we didn't group for dungeons. Yet you are saying that people who don't like to group or that it being so easy to group has made the current communities what they are.
Why does grouping have anything to do with community in your mind?
In EQ back in 1999... when I was one of a handful of clerics I grouped all the time. In fact I would be swamped with messages from people asking me to join their group while healing the group I was in. We didn't have much of any fights in groups over items but we certainly had jerks... and thus the invention of "the list".
You wanna see a bad seed in the community suddenly try to fit in? Try playing a game where sure you can solo but if you want a certain nice item you need a group. Then based on your personal in game actions finding out nobody will group with you...
Community is what it is in todays games because there is absolutely no consequence to your actions within the community. As well as the fact most people turn off general channels due to the absolutely mind numbing stupidity that passes for "chat" or they spend all day adding people to /ignore. Then new people who have valid questions quite often don't even get an answer because so much of the community has isolated its self...
and I'm sorry but EQ was still a very popular game when the virtual community started to go down in the spiral swirl... so its not WoW or random dungeon groups. If you don't like wow or random cross server groups that's fine and I respect your choice there.
However, these things have absolutely nothing to do with why the community is the way it is right now. In fact given the average person in the virtual community these days.. I'd rather just not play MMO's at all.
Good post. But you left the question open, what was the reason for the change in the community? I would think that each game gets the community it deserves, but you argue that you can do what you want (as a game developer), you will always end up with a bad com - but why? Because nowadays every dumbass can come online and play a MMO, while in former times only the smartest and most social guys played? Come on, seriously? Or did I miss something?
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Well, we all knew it was coming. That's why I never gave them any money. Immersion isn't something one should look for in a post WoW MMO unless it's made by an indie dev. This LFG tool just furthers my argument that modern MMOs are more like Diablo with monthly fees than a real MMO. It's so anti social, and anyone who thinks it isn't... rethink things.
This does seem like kind of a silly thing to argue about. I play on a low pop server and its hell trying to get into a 5 man group, especially if you dont feel like tanking or healing. Games that have LFG tools...pardon me, "dungeon queues" as the guy keeps spamming in this thread...actually promote grouping because you group MORE since they pop faster, thereby increasing interaction, increasing gameplay, and increasing progression. Yes, you will meet total ass hats, and yes, you will meet some very cool people that end up being game long friends. Just like you do out in the PVE world. It's no diffrent. Besides, you already queue for any pvp at all in RIFT and the majority of the playerbase is ok with that. Isn't it hypocritical to say it's wrong to do it with dungeons too?
I was against the pvp battlegroups in WoW because I liked that friendly competion and recognition that comes with being a better player on the server. But honestly it kinda sucked only being able to do AV once in a blue moon, or waiting hours for a simple WSG match. In the end it was better, because I still got to run with my friends (if I choose) and we had a whole new and larger player base in which to build our reps, which we did
And with the horrible rep grinds in RIFT, (thats not debateable, the prestige ranks are rediculous), the player base needs a tool...er queue....to make those gains even plausable.
It just seems odd that the people who keep spamming MMO's are about "grouping and co-op play" are mad about a tool...*cough* queue ....that makes you group to see content. We're Massive (meaning alot), Multiplayer (meaning all in the same world space), and online (meaning connected through the internet) gamers. None of that says I have to hold your hand the whole time. I should be able to group only if and when I want to, and that is what these mechanisms do, and why the majority of gamers like them.
I have done plenty of re thinking and you are wrong. LFG tool helps people to do group content more and not less. People with low populated servers will benefit from it most. Those who stick to their guild groups for dungeon runs they have nothing to complain about. For everyone else it is still as random as getting a group together by spamming LFG for an hour or more. No difference at all.
I'm against PvP battlegrounds the same as I'm against LFG dungeon finder tools. Being instantly teleported into content is immersion breaking. If you can't run a couple minutes to your content, something is seriously wrong with people. Like I said eariler, why even have the world? Just make instanced content like GW and let people queue up in lobbies. That's what Trion is going to turn this into. It will be the same thing with rifts and quests. You can open the LFG tool and be teleported instantly to any kind of grouped action in any zone. Trion spent so much time creating a world, and now they are destroying it's usefulness. Mark my words. In less than ten years at this pace, mainstream MMO's are going to be nothing but lobby games. They will cater to the casual to make the extra buck. This is where sandbox needs to make a push, and people will embrace it.
Yet you're fine with all the random horn sounds random on-screen text, and random monsters appearing out of thin air whenever there's an invasion in the zone you're in?
The only people actually arguing are the people in favor of the dungeon queue tool.Those of us against it stated we're probably quitting, at least partially due to the tool, and explained why. The people in favor of the queue refuse to accept the explanation, for whatever reason, and try to argue about it.
In a nutshell, there's many of us that don't want such a tool in our game, and if they put it in we won't play it. Simple as that. Nothing to argue about at all. For myself in particular, there's plenty of other MMOs out there, no need to waste my time and money on one that doesn't offer what I want.
So if you want to whine about people arguing, start talking to the ones in favor of the dungeon queue. In the meantime, with what you posted, you're just adding to the arguing.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Different things break immersion for different people.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
We? many of us? where? i love it when a single individual try to show as if he is the majority. Fact is that lots of players wanted this in game and its quite obvious why. Considering how difficult it is to get a group together this is no brainer. Others refuse to accept the explanation because the explanation is senseless and stupid. How about putting forward some good reasoning? but sadly you do not have any.
I can see that as being true in some cases, but I legitimately fail to see the differences between the three things I listed and being instantly teleported into a dungeon. I think it's a case of this individual being a little too conveniently selective on what exactly constitutes immersion, which is a major problem I have with much of this whole "it breaks my immersion" argument. You could say just about anything breaks your immersion if you simply didn't like it.
From day one our sever had a LFG channel. You just use /Join LFG and you are in, it works fine, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Maybe you start reading at page 1 and not 22 - there are quite a few people who have posted their negative feeling about this tool. Beside the majority of gamers who don't like this kind of tool just silently quit, or have been wise enough to not even buy this game.
As usual, a matter of taste. There are still thousands of people playing diablo and having fun, and there are still thousands of people playing eq1 and having fun. While I am more in the eq1-camp, I still don't blame the diablo-guys to be senseless or stupid, like you did the other way around. Maybe that's the reason why I'm in the eq1-camp ;-)
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
its actually funny, after reading the patch 1.2, I want to try the game again lol
tried beta =3
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I, and pretty much everyone in this thread against the queue tool gave good reasoning. You don't like the reasoning, who knows why? Because you're a fanboy? Who knows. But guess what. I DON'T CARE. Bottom line is your opinion means absolutely zero when it comes to what I want in an MMO and which MMO I'll spend my money on. My opinion, on the other hand, matters a great deal.
So in the end, here's all YOU need to know: I don't want an MMO with a dungeon queue tool. If they put it in, I'm quitting.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Different things for different people <shrug> Dungeon Finder in WoW is what brought me back to the game after I'd burned out. Since I do not raid(I lack the sustained focus required) it allowed me to gear up my five 80's to a much greater extent than I'd have believed possible. Then of course Ghostcrawler managed to cripple DF in Cata... More of his typical short sightedness. I'm hoping that the Rift version is at least as good as the original DF.
I've played these games since UO. I've tried EQ1 but could never really get into it. Then I tried Asherons Call, and played it for a couple of years. Good game, but really nasty death penalties. I also liked Diablo and D2, but I burned out after I had two in the high 80's. Anyway, I suspect that those who would quit because of a LFG tool, would have quit soon in any event.
Well, the head Dev said that there WILL be one in the next release due in another week or two. Its a done deal. Not up for discussion or debate. Personally, I'm happy to see it. I wish I'd had it at launch. I wish you all the best in finding a new game that you can enjoy.
Indeed, and that's why I already canceled my sub. I've always got several games that I play, so quitting one is no big deal. I just put more time into another one. Then later, I'll stumble across another one that's fun.
Also like I've said before, I have no issue with people who know what a queue tool brings and know it's what they want. Some people really do prefer that type of game. Just don't expect the game to stay the same, because it won't.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.