James, I hope you had a lawyer review the documents before signing. I also hope that you received a certified breakdown of expenses incurred related to the Kickstarter funds. As you (according to the last update on Kickstarter) have now assumed liability for the Kickstarter, I sure hope you can account for every dollar raised/spent. Not just some Email from Jason saying "Dude nothing is left.." but actual invoices matched up against the budget...
Also, if you have not had someone review the documents and/or gotten a certified breakdown of expenses (and liabilities), most states have a 3-5 day "cooling off" period where you can back out of a contract after you come to your senses.
If I were you I would be quite concerned that Jason was sure to point out that you assumed all the Kickstarter Liabilities.
As the person handling the Business side Joel went over everything and made sure we were protected. Basically at this point if we mess up moving forward we are responsible if any legal issues arise from choices made in the past before MMOI owned GM then Jason is still responsible... However I am hoping the community will allow Jason to just peacefully leave and work with us to move things forward. There are no hard feelings between Jason, my self, or MMOI and it's important to just get this behind us and move GM forward.
So for instance... the physical KS rewards like Tshirts. Who is responsible?
Also- were any funds turned over to you?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
After reading about this on MMORPG and some on RPGCodex I personally woud not touch this game or anyone who has had anything to do with it with a barge pole.
No one walks away from this mess looking good, just pass on the word to your friends famiy etc to stay away from Greed Monger, I know I will be.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
I don’t have a stake in this game but my thinking is that it had a better chance of succeeding with fresh ideas and a larger team such as Interdiction Studios
The way things stand now, the people that supported this game with money are essentially right back where they started before this whole thing blew up…..one dev with little to no monetary support. JamesP has one of the most positive attitudes I’ve ever seen but if you don’t have the tools to make the game, the outcome will eventually be the same. The tools I am referring to are money and technical expertise.
Appleton really made out here. He got to keep a good part of the money (guessing) and now will wash his hands completely of the debacle.
If you took ownership of the game and everything else then Jason Appleton promised not to sue you.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
If you took ownership of the game and everything else then Jason Appleton promised not to sue you.
Yup, it seems he chickened out by the lawsuit and said: No no no, please don't kill me! I do anything!
And then it took over the right mess that this game is.
Sad state, because the game ideas "seem" nice, but the whole Kickstarter funding being used for Jason's lavish lifestyle and funds disappearing out of thin air... its just not good.
From one broken indie dev who has no clue how to make a game, to an indie dev who might have a clue but its also broken.
So Jason walks away with most of the kickstarter money and James gets stuck with the responsibility?
James, I like you but I think you are nuts. You just gave Jason exactly what he needed, a legal method to keep the money he stole. I wish you well and good luck and I hope Jason suffers the curse of the soft poo for the rest of his life.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
James, I hope you had a lawyer review the documents before signing. I also hope that you received a certified breakdown of expenses incurred related to the Kickstarter funds. As you (according to the last update on Kickstarter) have now assumed liability for the Kickstarter, I sure hope you can account for every dollar raised/spent. Not just some Email from Jason saying "Dude nothing is left.." but actual invoices matched up against the budget...
Also, if you have not had someone review the documents and/or gotten a certified breakdown of expenses (and liabilities), most states have a 3-5 day "cooling off" period where you can back out of a contract after you come to your senses.
If I were you I would be quite concerned that Jason was sure to point out that you assumed all the Kickstarter Liabilities.
As the person handling the Business side Joel went over everything and made sure we were protected. Basically at this point if we mess up moving forward we are responsible if any legal issues arise from choices made in the past before MMOI owned GM then Jason is still responsible... However I am hoping the community will allow Jason to just peacefully leave and work with us to move things forward. There are no hard feelings between Jason, my self, or MMOI and it's important to just get this behind us and move GM forward.
So for instance... the physical KS rewards like Tshirts. Who is responsible?
Also- were any funds turned over to you?
The T-Shirts and other KS Rewards are an ongoing responsibility that we have picked up... Jason is sending the rest of the T-Shirts to Joel and once we get them we will ensure they go out in a timely fashion. unfortunately with no funds from the KS being handed over to us since there are none left the expense to ship them falls on us. But we are committed to ensuring everyone get's what is theres.
It all seems a bit to convenient, a plan, premeditated drama you could say....
This stuck out to me aswell.
Its not. If you followed this from when it first started happening here I started the 'drama' and it was in no way to have THIS outcome. I wanted Jason to have to come out of hiding and face his backers and the responsibility for...Things.
I'm glad James P is happy- I wish james P luck but this wanst anything preplanned to allow James to get control of GM.
EDIT- I will say Jason is smart. He got away by the skin of his teeth on this one...Maybe. We will see, but it looks like he was able to exit in time. I'm not going to cause any issues with james and MMOI. James has good intentions. The backers at least have someone who is going to give it their all. Nuff said.
Even if jason Appleton is able to walk away cleanly from this mess it'll only be a matter of time until karma comes calling. I am sure we have yet to hear the last of his saga.
James, I hope you had a lawyer review the documents before signing. I also hope that you received a certified breakdown of expenses incurred related to the Kickstarter funds. As you (according to the last update on Kickstarter) have now assumed liability for the Kickstarter, I sure hope you can account for every dollar raised/spent. Not just some Email from Jason saying "Dude nothing is left.." but actual invoices matched up against the budget...
Slappy, this had to have went down over a matter of hours. On Easter Sunday. In the Evening....
James, I hope you had a lawyer review the documents before signing. I also hope that you received a certified breakdown of expenses incurred related to the Kickstarter funds. As you (according to the last update on Kickstarter) have now assumed liability for the Kickstarter, I sure hope you can account for every dollar raised/spent. Not just some Email from Jason saying "Dude nothing is left.." but actual invoices matched up against the budget...
Slappy, this had to have went down over a matter of hours. On Easter Sunday. In the Evening....
We entered talks with Jason around 1:29am yesterday morning... Everything was signed by 10:30 last night... This was a very quick and rushed deal. However things are still being brought over to our ownership today and prob. through out the week and Jason has said he would be willing to write up a break down of expenses thus far for us so we can account for where the KS Money has gone. We will release that complete break down on our forum once we have it as part of our dedication to be completely transparent going forth.
To be completely transparent, we've assumed liability in regards to finishing the product; Not how the KS resources were spent or appropriated. The appropriate legal documentation has been filed to reflect that.
Either way, it's inconsequential at this point. As long as we make good on KS backers, it doesn't really matter how Jason spent the money. In that sense, we're making sure that your dollars went towards something useful. We're looking forward rather than backward, and I personally feel that finishing the game and getting people their rewards is more important than people wanting Jason's head on a pike.
To be completely transparent, we've assumed liability in regards to finishing the product; Not how the KS resources were spent or appropriated. The appropriate legal documentation has been filed to reflect that.
Either way, it's inconsequential at this point. As long as we make good on KS backers, it doesn't really matter how Jason spent the money. In that sense, we're making sure that your dollars went towards something useful. We're looking forward rather than backward, and I personally feel that finishing the game and getting people their rewards is more important than people wanting Jason's head on a pike.
Just give it your best guys and communicate, admit if you fuck up and be straight up with the community. This was never about failure to make a game (I think you know that) but much more. If you guys try your best and fail, no love lost. Making an mmorpg has got to be insanely difficult.
You have my support for what its worth- I know your intentions are honorable and good- This isnt about 'outcome' but about valid attempt.
James is well liked and from what I know of you , you seem to be a good guy as well who will be perfect to give this project some direction.
-Good luck. I think you have your work cut out for you but I think you have community support which should be a big help. I think regardless of what happens there wont be torches and pitchforks anymore. =P
Developers also take note- There is organization happening behind the scenes in the community. We will have accountability. The journalists and websites that hype you and your words and then abandon us when we want answers- Those days are over. If shadiness seems to be going on, major drama will come.
James, I hope you had a lawyer review the documents before signing. I also hope that you received a certified breakdown of expenses incurred related to the Kickstarter funds. As you (according to the last update on Kickstarter) have now assumed liability for the Kickstarter, I sure hope you can account for every dollar raised/spent. Not just some Email from Jason saying "Dude nothing is left.." but actual invoices matched up against the budget...
Also, if you have not had someone review the documents and/or gotten a certified breakdown of expenses (and liabilities), most states have a 3-5 day "cooling off" period where you can back out of a contract after you come to your senses.
If I were you I would be quite concerned that Jason was sure to point out that you assumed all the Kickstarter Liabilities.
As the person handling the Business side Joel went over everything and made sure we were protected. Basically at this point if we mess up moving forward we are responsible if any legal issues arise from choices made in the past before MMOI owned GM then Jason is still responsible... However I am hoping the community will allow Jason to just peacefully leave and work with us to move things forward. There are no hard feelings between Jason, my self, or MMOI and it's important to just get this behind us and move GM forward.
So for instance... the physical KS rewards like Tshirts. Who is responsible?
Also- were any funds turned over to you?
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith. We are also brokering a few deals that would expedite our development. We looked very carefully at our options, and figured the best course of action would be to step in and take accountability for this, rather than watching KS backers get nothing.
I can certainly understand peoples' trepidation and criticism of GM and our actions in the past, but I'd like to think that what we're doing in the near future will at least provide people with the knowledge that we ARE doing our best to accommodate the backers and community members alike.
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith.
WHEN?
A deadline that you hit would actually be a good sign... so what date do you promise to ship by? Without dates... talk is meaningless.
Give him time to get the shirts. jason still has them (probably still in the garage)- Holding them to a date when the fabled shirt delivery is contingent on appleton is... Shall we say... IDK lol,.
Considering that 3 years on there are still backer rewards sitting in jasons garage - There might be a wait.
IMHO we need to give these guys some time to organize, get a plan and see what they have on their plates. I think at this juncture they should be allotted a good month before we start asking any hard questions. They havnt even had control for 24 hours at this point and the timeline is still contingent on jason doing something.
If I were to give a guess though, I think Jason will be moving asap to get this allover with. We will see.
If they claim that a Volcano ate the t-shirts... Then we have issues =D (not sure how many are going to get that reference but...It was funny dammit for those who did)
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith.
WHEN?
A deadline that you hit would actually be a good sign... so what date do you promise to ship by? Without dates... talk is meaningless.
Without the shirts in my hand, it's hard to say. All I can say is that when I get them, I will be going through and getting them sent. Not sure what else you want from me at this time.
We will release that complete break down on our forum once we have it as part of our dedication to be completely transparent going forth.
This will probably be fruitless as Jason will makeup whatever numbers he needs
$30,000 - Marketing
$10,000 - Software Assets
$30,000 - PC's for employees
$30,000 - Employee payroll/costs
Personally, I feel as though Jason was able to walk off with at least $50,000 and to do nothing about that only inspires more scammers to take advantage of kickstarter.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
We will release that complete break down on our forum once we have it as part of our dedication to be completely transparent going forth.
This will probably be fruitless as Jason will makeup whatever numbers he needs
$30,000 - Marketing
$10,000 - Software Assets
$30,000 - PC's for employees
$30,000 - Employee payroll/costs
Personally, I feel as though Jason was able to walk off with at least $50,000 and to do nothing about that only inspires more scammers to take advantage of kickstarter.
Jason got lucky. He was able to find an emergency exit in the nick of time. One that removed culpability from himself.
I'm going to agree on one hand that seeing that nothing can now be done will inspire more scammers but on the other hand after seeing the beginnings of the total shitstorm that was about to break out- Might give them pause to think.
The outcome here wasnt the intention as there were no real consequences for...Things. It was close though. Who would have thought he could have found an exit during Easter weekend? Not me..Obviously. =(
EDIT- Ahhhhh,now back to some Pillars Of Eternity. Gamings been on hold a few days.
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith.
WHEN?
A deadline that you hit would actually be a good sign... so what date do you promise to ship by? Without dates... talk is meaningless.
Without the shirts in my hand, it's hard to say. All I can say is that when I get them, I will be going through and getting them sent. Not sure what else you want from me at this time.
I think a lot of folks (myself included) doubt that the shirts even exist. There is a massive amount of skepticism about everything related to this game. If you are unable to obtain something as simple as Tshirts by the end of the week it's a pretty clear sign that the game is in as much trouble as ever. Because of all the tasks ahead, simply getting Tshirts which are supposedly already created, into the mail in a week will be the simplest.
Goals and blanket statements without dates are meaningless.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith.
WHEN?
A deadline that you hit would actually be a good sign... so what date do you promise to ship by? Without dates... talk is meaningless.
Without the shirts in my hand, it's hard to say. All I can say is that when I get them, I will be going through and getting them sent. Not sure what else you want from me at this time.
I think a lot of folks (myself included) doubt that the shirts even exist. There is a massive amount of skepticism about everything related to this game. If you are unable to obtain something as simple as Tshirts by the end of the week it's a pretty clear sign that the game is in as much trouble as ever. Because of all the tasks ahead, simply getting Tshirts which are supposedly already created, into the mail in a week will be the simplest.
Goals and blanket statements without dates are meaningless.
You realize we've owned the IP for less than one 24hr day, right? It'd be absolutely irresponsible of us to make any time-based goals without concluding the discussions with ancillary parties that we needed the GM IP to be able to continue. We're very careful not to over-promise, or under-deliver, so your quest for dates is to me a bit premature.
After all, would you rather have an honest person telling that they'll let you know when, and that they're on it, or dishonest person to give you another fictitious date to placate you?
Comments
So for instance... the physical KS rewards like Tshirts. Who is responsible?
Also- were any funds turned over to you?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
After reading about this on MMORPG and some on RPGCodex I personally woud not touch this game or anyone who has had anything to do with it with a barge pole.
No one walks away from this mess looking good, just pass on the word to your friends famiy etc to stay away from Greed Monger, I know I will be.
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
It all seems a bit to convenient, a plan, premeditated drama you could say....
I don’t have a stake in this game but my thinking is that it had a better chance of succeeding with fresh ideas and a larger team such as Interdiction Studios
The way things stand now, the people that supported this game with money are essentially right back where they started before this whole thing blew up…..one dev with little to no monetary support. JamesP has one of the most positive attitudes I’ve ever seen but if you don’t have the tools to make the game, the outcome will eventually be the same. The tools I am referring to are money and technical expertise.
Appleton really made out here. He got to keep a good part of the money (guessing) and now will wash his hands completely of the debacle.
Good luck MMO Interactive.
A wild bit of abstract reasoning follows.
If you took ownership of the game and everything else then Jason Appleton promised not to sue you.
Yup, it seems he chickened out by the lawsuit and said: No no no, please don't kill me! I do anything!
And then it took over the right mess that this game is.
Sad state, because the game ideas "seem" nice, but the whole Kickstarter funding being used for Jason's lavish lifestyle and funds disappearing out of thin air... its just not good.
From one broken indie dev who has no clue how to make a game, to an indie dev who might have a clue but its also broken.
We will see, time will tell.
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So Jason walks away with most of the kickstarter money and James gets stuck with the responsibility?
James, I like you but I think you are nuts. You just gave Jason exactly what he needed, a legal method to keep the money he stole. I wish you well and good luck and I hope Jason suffers the curse of the soft poo for the rest of his life.
The T-Shirts and other KS Rewards are an ongoing responsibility that we have picked up... Jason is sending the rest of the T-Shirts to Joel and once we get them we will ensure they go out in a timely fashion. unfortunately with no funds from the KS being handed over to us since there are none left the expense to ship them falls on us. But we are committed to ensuring everyone get's what is theres.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
This stuck out to me aswell.
Its not. If you followed this from when it first started happening here I started the 'drama' and it was in no way to have THIS outcome. I wanted Jason to have to come out of hiding and face his backers and the responsibility for...Things.
I'm glad James P is happy- I wish james P luck but this wanst anything preplanned to allow James to get control of GM.
EDIT- I will say Jason is smart. He got away by the skin of his teeth on this one...Maybe. We will see, but it looks like he was able to exit in time. I'm not going to cause any issues with james and MMOI. James has good intentions. The backers at least have someone who is going to give it their all. Nuff said.
Even if jason Appleton is able to walk away cleanly from this mess it'll only be a matter of time until karma comes calling. I am sure we have yet to hear the last of his saga.
Slappy, this had to have went down over a matter of hours. On Easter Sunday. In the Evening....
We entered talks with Jason around 1:29am yesterday morning... Everything was signed by 10:30 last night... This was a very quick and rushed deal. However things are still being brought over to our ownership today and prob. through out the week and Jason has said he would be willing to write up a break down of expenses thus far for us so we can account for where the KS Money has gone. We will release that complete break down on our forum once we have it as part of our dedication to be completely transparent going forth.
Company Owner
MMO Interactive
Looking forward to it. I hope my 100 bucks were used on something usable!
To be completely transparent, we've assumed liability in regards to finishing the product; Not how the KS resources were spent or appropriated. The appropriate legal documentation has been filed to reflect that.
Either way, it's inconsequential at this point. As long as we make good on KS backers, it doesn't really matter how Jason spent the money. In that sense, we're making sure that your dollars went towards something useful. We're looking forward rather than backward, and I personally feel that finishing the game and getting people their rewards is more important than people wanting Jason's head on a pike.
-Joel
MMO Interactive
-Joel
MMO Interactive
Just give it your best guys and communicate, admit if you fuck up and be straight up with the community. This was never about failure to make a game (I think you know that) but much more. If you guys try your best and fail, no love lost. Making an mmorpg has got to be insanely difficult.
You have my support for what its worth- I know your intentions are honorable and good- This isnt about 'outcome' but about valid attempt.
James is well liked and from what I know of you , you seem to be a good guy as well who will be perfect to give this project some direction.
-Good luck. I think you have your work cut out for you but I think you have community support which should be a big help. I think regardless of what happens there wont be torches and pitchforks anymore. =P
Developers also take note- There is organization happening behind the scenes in the community. We will have accountability. The journalists and websites that hype you and your words and then abandon us when we want answers- Those days are over. If shadiness seems to be going on, major drama will come.
We have had enough.
I will be shipping shirts to backers out of my own pocket, as a gesture of good faith. We are also brokering a few deals that would expedite our development. We looked very carefully at our options, and figured the best course of action would be to step in and take accountability for this, rather than watching KS backers get nothing.
I can certainly understand peoples' trepidation and criticism of GM and our actions in the past, but I'd like to think that what we're doing in the near future will at least provide people with the knowledge that we ARE doing our best to accommodate the backers and community members alike.
-Joel
MMO Interactive
WHEN?
A deadline that you hit would actually be a good sign... so what date do you promise to ship by? Without dates... talk is meaningless.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Give him time to get the shirts. jason still has them (probably still in the garage)- Holding them to a date when the fabled shirt delivery is contingent on appleton is... Shall we say... IDK lol,.
Considering that 3 years on there are still backer rewards sitting in jasons garage - There might be a wait.
IMHO we need to give these guys some time to organize, get a plan and see what they have on their plates. I think at this juncture they should be allotted a good month before we start asking any hard questions. They havnt even had control for 24 hours at this point and the timeline is still contingent on jason doing something.
If I were to give a guess though, I think Jason will be moving asap to get this allover with. We will see.
If they claim that a Volcano ate the t-shirts... Then we have issues =D (not sure how many are going to get that reference but...It was funny dammit for those who did)
Without the shirts in my hand, it's hard to say. All I can say is that when I get them, I will be going through and getting them sent. Not sure what else you want from me at this time.
-Joel
MMO Interactive
This will probably be fruitless as Jason will makeup whatever numbers he needs
$30,000 - Marketing
$10,000 - Software Assets
$30,000 - PC's for employees
$30,000 - Employee payroll/costs
Personally, I feel as though Jason was able to walk off with at least $50,000 and to do nothing about that only inspires more scammers to take advantage of kickstarter.
Jason got lucky. He was able to find an emergency exit in the nick of time. One that removed culpability from himself.
I'm going to agree on one hand that seeing that nothing can now be done will inspire more scammers but on the other hand after seeing the beginnings of the total shitstorm that was about to break out- Might give them pause to think.
The outcome here wasnt the intention as there were no real consequences for...Things. It was close though. Who would have thought he could have found an exit during Easter weekend? Not me..Obviously. =(
EDIT- Ahhhhh,now back to some Pillars Of Eternity. Gamings been on hold a few days.
Peace out.
I think a lot of folks (myself included) doubt that the shirts even exist. There is a massive amount of skepticism about everything related to this game. If you are unable to obtain something as simple as Tshirts by the end of the week it's a pretty clear sign that the game is in as much trouble as ever. Because of all the tasks ahead, simply getting Tshirts which are supposedly already created, into the mail in a week will be the simplest.
Goals and blanket statements without dates are meaningless.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You realize we've owned the IP for less than one 24hr day, right? It'd be absolutely irresponsible of us to make any time-based goals without concluding the discussions with ancillary parties that we needed the GM IP to be able to continue. We're very careful not to over-promise, or under-deliver, so your quest for dates is to me a bit premature.
After all, would you rather have an honest person telling that they'll let you know when, and that they're on it, or dishonest person to give you another fictitious date to placate you?
-Joel
MMO Interactive