I am not in any of your camps. I am/was a game developer that know one or two things about this game industry that neither magazines, bloggers nor gamers in general,and I can tell you, even a lot of workers of this industry know or understand... a person, who was just happy by a Space Sim game, coming back, but who happened to test the waters of the CIG ocean, just like an investigator would make if dealing with a case, if you know what I mean.
I smelt something wrong, gathered the evidences, made the right questions, created a scenario and they felt in this "trap" in the same way tha t a criminal would fell after questioned/investigated by a detective. For what I don't have to solve the puzzle, like a detective that never will have, or rarely, the crime scene recorded to do not let any doubt of guilty, I got from their reaction to my test. It's what always, in a real criminal investigation, in general, put people on jail, regardless footage or confession.
I am pretty sure that Derek Smart is adamant of his opinion because, like me, starting on March 2013, he did exactly the same strategy on July 2015.. and their attitude felt the gaps of his investigation, just like felt mine earlier 2013. Which I continued to gather information, along the years, only corroborating with that.
Your camps are related to people which in general, are basing all their analysis in faith/hope or lack of knowledge about the happenings of this project. I could say and I agree that people like me, considering the categories that you created, could sound like camp 5 many times, but I can tell you, it's not my case. And no. I am not a fanatic living on denial. I am just guilty of knowing this industry, behind the doors and having some skills that goes beyond my current daily job.
As more "outrageous" that sounds for the status quo of SCitizens of "following the trends" of "I hate Derek Smart" is the new way to play the smart guy with the community, it's not his case too, as I figured out. I would happily be proven wrong by CIG. But they can't. They are unable to. And many chances were given. And they proven me right, again and again and again.
It's all based on research and more than research... as I tried to explain above, investigation. A very neutral, reasonable and careful investigation. All the time thirsty to be wrong. And it was very easy to get them, because, they are not really that smarter on hiding. If wasn't by the hopes created around this project, everyone would have noticed. If this was EA, everyone would have realized the obvious. Maybe, I detected the situation very earlier again, because I am not a clueless person who have to resort to faith or "press opinions" to understand why a person do this or that in the game industry, I can have a better insight and catch the devil in an instant.
I also have a trend to do not talk about whatever "positive" thing that CIG does, which indeed will help to make me sound like #5, first because there are plenty of people already doing that, second because it's going to be irrelevant in the end, so I definitely do not waste my time with such matters, because there are some major problems that will make this project a fail regardless, third, because I don't care with people's opinion about me, or in convince people about what I found. I just tell and advice. Do with that information and advice what you want. I am not Roberts. I am not selling anything.
The true is, be in whatever category that you prefer that make you sound smart (to you or to other people), you all have been played fools by a dreamer willing to be someone in Hollywood again and an failed actress.
Which is sad, because, I mean, I am pretty sure that everyone here studied, got some high level of degree, possibly are good business man, engineers, some even played fools in other scenarios of their lives, etc., still, felt easily in one of the most obvious piramid schemes, disguised and not well-thought or even pre-planned, but still put in pratice anyway, due the simple circunstance of some basic mistakes that they made at the begin, and that they can't go back... fatal mistakes, which lead some people in the top positions of CIG to realize, sooner than people imagine, that is better to fail with your pockets full than to fail with your pockets empty. And I have no doubt, they are surpised that this all went for so long, and could be even with some tiny hope now, that could manage to continue with this "forever".
In any case, I love people who want to sound smart and mature, putting themselves in a neutral position, and characterizing other people in ways that make them sound smarter, reasonable, balanced, and others blind.
I say, all people in these camps of yours are benn fooled and are been just because these people want. It happens when they hope. Because, seriously, CIG went to so much level of bullshit, that you really do not need to have my background or skils to see. Any person without hope, but bothering to go to a deep level of investigation, sooner or later will figure out the same that I did earlier. It's rare a person hoping for something, really to be able to be objective. I am proud to be one of these exceptions.
Obviously I never wanted Star Citizen to fail. But I can't lie to people. it will. But, specially those in the #1, I am sure that people still are going to love the fail, specially the type 1. All fails, with less evangelization effort made by its devs, have people liking them. And CIG always will keep their own, unless, something really more dirty than the level that I figured out, be uncovered. My bet is that is not that extreme.
Seriously. People, that I know, love Jar Jar Binks, for example.
And if I am wrong, I will be very happy actually... and surprised. Indeed, CR will have broken some basic laws/rules of the market that works for everyone, but magically, wouldn't affect his business. I would start to believe in divine powers of Roberts and co. And I would start to write letters for Santa Claus, becuase in this case he definitely exists.
"wait...they are selling virtual items for $25,000 ?!
and people are buying them?!
forget about the game, let's get some psychologists in here"
camp
That's a fair camp, I also think that crazy amounts of money, don't think nobody doesn't, but at the end of the day I know there are people in the world who will pay millions for a picture of a anus or a curdle drawn line. So i just don't see it as a big deal. You can get a refund and majority have only paid $30 for a single player game and alpha access, a pretty good deal compared to most today
We all have things that we might think is worth the money while others think we are complete nutters for buying.
"wait...they are selling virtual items for $25,000 ?!
and people are buying them?!
forget about the game, let's get some psychologists in here"
camp
That's a fair camp, I also think that crazy amounts of money, don't think nobody doesn't, but at the end of the day I know there are people in the world who will pay millions for a picture of a anus or a curdle drawn line. So i just don't see it as a big deal. You can get a refund and majority have only paid $30 for a single player game and alpha access, a pretty good deal compared to most today
We all have things that we might think is worth the money while others think we are complete nutters for buying.
I am agreeing with your statement that people can spend their money however they see fit but art you generally can resell for what you paid or better, usually better if the artist has died. If CIG dies you will be left holding a big fat nothing.
30 dollars isn't a bad deal but can you back up the majority have only paid 30 dollars? Will they stick with that only 30 dollar purchase if SC releases? (ignore buying expansions for SQ42 and the like)
By that I mean what's to stop them from buying another ship for real cash in order to avoid the grind to get a new ship? We have no idea how long it will take to get a ship with ingame credits and CIG could very well make it a horrible grind to encourage the continued sale of ships for real cash.
No the $30 can't be backed up because they are a limited package that typically only shows up in small numbers during the sales. $45 (35 GBP, 43 EUR) is the standard 'base' package.
1. If the Escapist article was false and not based on any real interviews or real evidence then why did Cloud Imperium NOT follow through on their threat of legal action when the Escapist refused their terms? You cant say they did not care because they cared enough to make the threat and give the Escapist an ultimatum.
HA!
Maybe because they dont have a case?
I'm glad you admit that CIG does not have a case against the escapist because the article came straight from actual verified employees.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
1. If the Escapist article was false and not based on any real interviews or real evidence then why did Cloud Imperium NOT follow through on their threat of legal action when the Escapist refused their terms? You cant say they did not care because they cared enough to make the threat and give the Escapist an ultimatum.
HA!
Maybe because they dont have a case?
I'm glad you admit that CIG does not have a case against the escapist because the article came straight from actual verified employees.
Of course they dont.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
1. If the Escapist article was false and not based on any real interviews or real evidence then why did Cloud Imperium NOT follow through on their threat of legal action when the Escapist refused their terms? You cant say they did not care because they cared enough to make the threat and give the Escapist an ultimatum.
HA!
Maybe because they dont have a case?
I'm glad you admit that CIG does not have a case against the escapist because the article came straight from actual verified employees.
Of course they dont.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
I am no following you. Is CR really that powerful? I doubt it seriously
more over the POINT of having a court system is that they figured out a very long time ago that people often make baseless claims and jouranlism is not qualified to be a judge
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
I am no following you. Is CR really that powerful? I doubt it seriously
more over the POINT of having a court system is that they figured out a very long time ago that people often make baseless claims and jouranlism is not qualified to be a judge
CR isn't that powerful but the games industry is rather small and you would be very hard pressed to find a job if you brought forth a lawsuit.
So you weigh your options. Either sue and win some money or just go and find another job
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
I am no following you. Is CR really that powerful? I doubt it seriously
more over the POINT of having a court system is that they figured out a very long time ago that people often make baseless claims and jouranlism is not qualified to be a judge
CR isn't that powerful but the games industry is rather small and you would be very hard pressed to find a job if you brought forth a lawsuit.
So you weigh your options. Either sue and win some money or just go and find another job
fair enough however the other problem still exists.
why do we think these 7 or so employees are not simplying lying?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
I am no following you. Is CR really that powerful? I doubt it seriously
more over the POINT of having a court system is that they figured out a very long time ago that people often make baseless claims and jouranlism is not qualified to be a judge
CR isn't that powerful but the games industry is rather small and you would be very hard pressed to find a job if you brought forth a lawsuit.
So you weigh your options. Either sue and win some money or just go and find another job
fair enough however the other problem still exists.
why do we think these 7 or so employees are not simplying lying?
Well that leads to two options.
1. They really hate CR.
2. They really care about gaming and how people are being scammed.
I would go with number 2, there are a lot of good developers out there with integrity.
2. They really care about gaming and how people are being scammed.
I would go with number 2, there are a lot of good developers out there with integrity.
except that illegal firing processes dosent have anything to do with scamming customers.
so you are saying that they care enough about customers being scammed that they made fabricated an illegal firing story? I could see that
Once again you missed the entire point to bring nothing to the post. They decided to bring what is going on with SC to the forefront which clearly shows they have integrity.
Another point we should bring up which am sure you will have another endless non essential points to, why is CR telling his people to attack anyone that says something bad about SC.
please don't ask for a post to it, if you really have been keeping up with SC then you know he told them too.
Well on the latest venture into public scrutiny,i would garner a guess that MOST developers will always act defensive and ban users no matter what it takes.They have a business and reputation to protect at all costs.
I do not feel he has been open enough for this venture,what i have seen is a lot of VERY small doses.You don't have a large team and a couple years to work with now 100 million and have so little to show anyone.
Here is the other issue i keep pointing to.Why since EVERY goal is met financially did they feel the need to create a bunch of shares then turn around and sell them back to the company and draw capitol from the company?
Here is the real big one NOBODY has eluded to.IF this and other ventures are so good that you feel a need to throw your money at them,WHY are we selling items a long with these so called donations?You cannot label it a donation if it is tied to product sales,there should be NOTHING for sale attached to these donations.
The integrity of a game is thrown right out the window when you start selling the most viable asset that players want in a game,the ships.It really is the lowest form of running a business ,CR has zero integrity left now,he stooped to the lowest form of running a game business which is cash shop and selling not fluff but the most important asset in the game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So what happened to all the forum users here that used to scoff at cash shops that were not fluff?I do not remember seeing one single person defend otherwise at that time,so now why is anyone defending such a lame business tactic? Chris Roberts has not decided to sell FLUFF or meaningless items,he is selling the most important items in the game,so what is left to game for,you already buy what you wanted.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So what happened to all the forum users here that used to scoff at cash shops that were not fluff?I do not remember seeing one single person defend otherwise at that time,so now why is anyone defending such a lame business tactic? Chris Roberts has not decided to sell FLUFF or meaningless items,he is selling the most important items in the game,so what is left to game for,you already buy what you wanted.
The sea change that has happened over the last few years is pretty amazing to watch. People, in general, are now completely ok with paying for digital goods within games - even when it means that the guy that pays more will have a large advantage over the guy that pays less. It's not strange that games like this exist, what is strange to me is how popular this type of model has become.
I have a feeling when this is all done and over it will come out this was more than about a space game. We already know his wife (which he tried covering up they were married, which is still confusing) was attempting to break out as an actress with money most likely from the funds raised for the game. Then we have money that was poured into actors which clearly is still way to early considering the state game is in.
This whole thing smells and looks bad. Just need to wait for the other shoe to fall. We all know that shoe is going to be falling soon.
I'm glad you admit that CIG does not have a case against the escapist because the article came straight from actual verified employees.
Of course they dont.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
No one said they were fired illegally but you. I find it odd that you started this thread claiming to be neutral and yet you continue to misrepresent the facts to support a pro-star citizen agenda.
Its odd the way you twist the facts. You see, it was Chris Roberts who threatened legal action and then did not file a suit, but you make it seem like the people who talked to the escapist are not credible because THEY did not file a law suit when most of them did not claim any illegal activity.
Your views do not seem very neutral at all.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
except that illegal firing processes dosent have anything to do with scamming customers.
so you are saying that they care enough about customers being scammed that they made fabricated an illegal firing story? I could see that
Another nice feat of wordplay there. Of the 9 people who talked to the escapist, only one claimed illegal hiring practices and yet here you are again posting false information in support of Cloud Imperium. Again, you dont seem very neutral in all of this. One might even wonder about you motives for making this thread...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
why do we think these 7 or so employees are not simplying lying?
What would be the purpose of several of the current employees to lie? Remember, some of the whistleblowers are currently employed at CIG. Isnt is more plausible that at least one or two claims are indeed true?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
So if you and 7 or so people wanted to go to the press about illegal hiring processes (but for reasons we dont know NOT file a lawsuit which is why the laws where written in the first place) is The Escapists really the news outlet you would go to for this story? really? not Polygon maybe..its kinda a big deal
Look! Again you are misrepresenting the facts. Now you claim 7 or more people were complaining about illegal hiring issues and a few posts after that you claim they had complaints about illegal firing. I again find it odd that your posts seem to contain random false information that misrepresent the entire incident. I also find it hard to believe you are neutral to this entire argument when you go to such trouble to make up pro-CIG information.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Comments
I smelt something wrong, gathered the evidences, made the right questions, created a scenario and they felt in this "trap" in the same way tha
t a criminal would fell after questioned/investigated by a detective. For what I don't have to solve the puzzle, like a detective that never will have, or rarely, the crime scene recorded to do not let any doubt of guilty, I got from their reaction to my test. It's what always, in a real criminal investigation, in general, put people on jail, regardless footage or confession.
I am pretty sure that Derek Smart is adamant of his opinion because, like me, starting on March 2013, he did exactly the same strategy on July 2015.. and their attitude felt the gaps of his investigation, just like felt mine earlier 2013. Which I continued to gather information, along the years, only corroborating with that.
Your camps are related to people which in general, are basing all their analysis in faith/hope or lack of knowledge about the happenings of this project. I could say and I agree that people like me, considering the categories that you created, could sound like camp 5 many times, but I can tell you, it's not my case. And no. I am not a fanatic living on denial. I am just guilty of knowing this industry, behind the doors and having some skills that goes beyond my current daily job.
As more "outrageous" that sounds for the status quo of SCitizens of "following the trends" of "I hate Derek Smart" is the new way to play the smart guy with the community, it's not his case too, as I figured out. I would happily be proven wrong by CIG. But they can't. They are unable to. And many chances were given. And they proven me right, again and again and again.
It's all based on research and more than research... as I tried to explain above, investigation. A very neutral, reasonable and careful investigation. All the time thirsty to be wrong. And it was very easy to get them, because, they are not really that smarter on hiding. If wasn't by the hopes created around this project, everyone would have noticed. If this was EA, everyone would have realized the obvious. Maybe, I detected the situation very earlier again, because I am not a clueless person who have to resort to faith or "press opinions" to understand why a person do this or that in the game industry, I can have a better insight and catch the devil in an instant.
I also have a trend to do not talk about whatever "positive" thing that CIG does, which indeed will help to make me sound like #5, first because there are plenty of people already doing that, second because it's going to be irrelevant in the end, so I definitely do not waste my time with such matters, because there are some major problems that will make this project a fail regardless, third, because I don't care with people's opinion about me, or in convince people about what I found. I just tell and advice. Do with that information and advice what you want. I am not Roberts. I am not selling anything.
The true is, be in whatever category that you prefer that make you sound smart (to you or to other people), you all have been played fools by a dreamer willing to be someone in Hollywood again and an failed actress.
Which is sad, because, I mean, I am pretty sure that everyone here studied, got some high level of degree, possibly are good business man, engineers, some even played fools in other scenarios of their lives, etc., still, felt easily in one of the most obvious piramid schemes, disguised and not well-thought or even pre-planned, but still put in pratice anyway, due the simple circunstance of some basic mistakes that they made at the begin, and that they can't go back... fatal mistakes, which lead some people in the top positions of CIG to realize, sooner than people imagine, that is better to fail with your pockets full than to fail with your pockets empty. And I have no doubt, they are surpised that this all went for so long, and could be even with some tiny hope now, that could manage to continue with this "forever".
In any case, I love people who want to sound smart and mature, putting themselves in a neutral position, and characterizing other people in ways that make them sound smarter, reasonable, balanced, and others blind.
I say, all people in these camps of yours are benn fooled and are been just because these people want. It happens when they hope. Because, seriously, CIG went to so much level of bullshit, that you really do not need to have my background or skils to see. Any person without hope, but bothering to go to a deep level of investigation, sooner or later will figure out the same that I did earlier. It's rare a person hoping for something, really to be able to be objective. I am proud to be one of these exceptions.
Obviously I never wanted Star Citizen to fail. But I can't lie to people. it will. But, specially those in the #1, I am sure that people still are going to love the fail, specially the type 1. All fails, with less evangelization effort made by its devs, have people liking them. And CIG always will keep their own, unless, something really more dirty than the level that I figured out, be uncovered. My bet is that is not that extreme.
Seriously. People, that I know, love Jar Jar Binks, for example.
And if I am wrong, I will be very happy actually... and surprised. Indeed, CR will have broken some basic laws/rules of the market that works for everyone, but magically, wouldn't affect his business. I would start to believe in divine powers of Roberts and co. And I would start to write letters for Santa Claus, becuase in this case he definitely exists.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
We all have things that we might think is worth the money while others think we are complete nutters for buying.
I agree.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I am agreeing with your statement that people can spend their money however they see fit but art you generally can resell for what you paid or better, usually better if the artist has died. If CIG dies you will be left holding a big fat nothing.
30 dollars isn't a bad deal but can you back up the majority have only paid 30 dollars? Will they stick with that only 30 dollar purchase if SC releases? (ignore buying expansions for SQ42 and the like)
By that I mean what's to stop them from buying another ship for real cash in order to avoid the grind to get a new ship? We have no idea how long it will take to get a ship with ingame credits and CIG could very well make it a horrible grind to encourage the continued sale of ships for real cash.
If they did Fox News would have went out of business a LONG time ago.
It still doesnt explain why 6 employees who were fired illegally are not seeking legal action. That is why the law exists in the first place. No point in complaining about someone taking illegal action against you if you dont actually file for anything!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Depends if they ever want to work in the video game industry ever again.
more over the POINT of having a court system is that they figured out a very long time ago that people often make baseless claims and jouranlism is not qualified to be a judge
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So you weigh your options. Either sue and win some money or just go and find another job
why do we think these 7 or so employees are not simplying lying?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1. They really hate CR.
2. They really care about gaming and how people are being scammed.
I would go with number 2, there are a lot of good developers out there with integrity.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
so you are saying that they care enough about customers being scammed that they made fabricated an illegal firing story? I could see that
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Another point we should bring up which am sure you will have another endless non essential points to, why is CR telling his people to attack anyone that says something bad about SC.
please don't ask for a post to it, if you really have been keeping up with SC then you know he told them too.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
I do not feel he has been open enough for this venture,what i have seen is a lot of VERY small doses.You don't have a large team and a couple years to work with now 100 million and have so little to show anyone.
Here is the other issue i keep pointing to.Why since EVERY goal is met financially did they feel the need to create a bunch of shares then turn around and sell them back to the company and draw capitol from the company?
Here is the real big one NOBODY has eluded to.IF this and other ventures are so good that you feel a need to throw your money at them,WHY are we selling items a long with these so called donations?You cannot label it a donation if it is tied to product sales,there should be NOTHING for sale attached to these donations.
The integrity of a game is thrown right out the window when you start selling the most viable asset that players want in a game,the ships.It really is the lowest form of running a business ,CR has zero integrity left now,he stooped to the lowest form of running a game business which is cash shop and selling not fluff but the most important asset in the game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Chris Roberts has not decided to sell FLUFF or meaningless items,he is selling the most important items in the game,so what is left to game for,you already buy what you wanted.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This whole thing smells and looks bad. Just need to wait for the other shoe to fall. We all know that shoe is going to be falling soon.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Its odd the way you twist the facts. You see, it was Chris Roberts who threatened legal action and then did not file a suit, but you make it seem like the people who talked to the escapist are not credible because THEY did not file a law suit when most of them did not claim any illegal activity.
Your views do not seem very neutral at all.