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Why do much hate on Star Citizen?

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  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    You forget that there are not only the whales and cult members that buy anything, there are also a huge number of speculators that buy limited ships to sell on the grey market ships. This grey market is where most of these ships are waiting for whales to snatch them up because they are rare.
    Yes but that doesnt account for the STEADY days. There arent any that I saw (I didnt put it under a microscope) where I didnt see at least 20K a day coming in. 20K a day is HUGE. And that is the minimums I saw. Since 'rare' ships are supposed to be rare, the premise youre making, and I can get with. You would think they would sell out quickly and from all reports they do.

    Now (speculation time) are they selling these rare ships to people on the sly? To make 25K a day they would have to sell 10 2500 ships. everyday for the past 3 years. Or 500 50 dollar ships. EVERY SINGLE DAY, to keep that number steady. I just dont believe it. Them making a million a day here or there is way more believable than them STEADILY grinding out 20+k a day every day (with those HUGE days also mixed in) over the course of the 3 years or so that doc represents. They were getting 50+ K a day ,mst of 2014, they didnt have the 20K days until June of this year those seemed to have lasted a couple months but there has been an increase in 'bigger' days since Oct.

    So I just dont get it. The document is set up so you can see where the big days coincide with 'sales'or resales or introductions of new ships or versions, also correlated with new vif releases or updates to something. But there are stretches where there is nothing being said or done and theyre still pulling in that kind of money? just doesnt make sense.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:

    You realize they ban backers that talk bad about SC on other sites? So my guess is you may have already been banned.

    Can you please provide us with the relevant info ?
    Just check their forums and rules.
    You can play dumb as long as you like, i will keep asking.

    You wrote that they are banning backers for talking bad about SC on other boards.

    Link us the relevant info. Show us.
    Do what you like, if you have no clue how to research things that isn't my problem. It is all there to read.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:

    You realize they ban backers that talk bad about SC on other sites? So my guess is you may have already been banned.

    Can you please provide us with the relevant info ?
    Just check their forums and rules.
    You can play dumb as long as you like, i will keep asking.

    You wrote that they are banning backers for talking bad about SC on other boards.

    Link us the relevant info. Show us.
    Do what you like, if you have no clue how to research things that isn't my problem. It is all there to read.
    I see your still paying attention to your thread, fix the title lol.  

    Why do much hate on Star Citizen?

  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:

    You realize they ban backers that talk bad about SC on other sites? So my guess is you may have already been banned.

    Can you please provide us with the relevant info ?
    Just check their forums and rules.
    You can play dumb as long as you like, i will keep asking.

    You wrote that they are banning backers for talking bad about SC on other boards.

    Link us the relevant info. Show us.
    Do what you like, if you have no clue how to research things that isn't my problem. It is all there to read.
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Daikuru said:
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    I am still waiting for that relevant link that I asked you about your claims. Simple logic wasn't enough to figure out. So, please, can you provide it now?
  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    edited December 2015
    jcrg99 said:
    Daikuru said:
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    I am still waiting for that relevant link that I asked you about your claims. Simple logic wasn't enough to figure out. So, please, can you provide it now?
    I already posted a link to the Spreadsheet, where you can see all you need to see. As for the happiness of the testers, just read the SC forums.

    Oh wait, you dont trust the forums, hmm what should i do now....

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    jcrg99 said:
    Daikuru said:
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    I am still waiting for that relevant link that I asked you about your claims. Simple logic wasn't enough to figure out. So, please, can you provide it now?
    That's ok, people are still waiting for a relevant link from you since you began posting here. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    Daikuru said:
    I already posted a link to the Spreadsheet, where you can see all you need to see. As for the happiness of the testers, just read the SC forums.

    The spreadsheet, besides been fan-made (don't you ignore evidences when they are from Derek Smart?) is not telling the source of the money.

    As you can see, after you posted, that generated several reasonable doubts from different users.

    Still waiting. Just prove us wrong. Follow your own advice ;)

    Oh... wait... You can't. You have nothing, but your own speculations. And you are far from having any evidence to prove your points, so that made your argument even weaker than any other that I have been seen presented her, to demonstrate that the doubts are valid and reasonable and that CIG's attitude is at the minimum, odd.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:

    You realize they ban backers that talk bad about SC on other sites? So my guess is you may have already been banned.

    Can you please provide us with the relevant info ?
    Just check their forums and rules.
    You can play dumb as long as you like, i will keep asking.

    You wrote that they are banning backers for talking bad about SC on other boards.

    Link us the relevant info. Show us.
    Do what you like, if you have no clue how to research things that isn't my problem. It is all there to read.
    I see your still paying attention to your thread, fix the title lol.  

    Why do much hate on Star Citizen?

    You realize I did not make this thread, right?
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Daikuru said:
    jcrg99 said:
    Daikuru said:
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    I am still waiting for that relevant link that I asked you about your claims. Simple logic wasn't enough to figure out. So, please, can you provide it now?
    I already posted a link to the Spreadsheet, where you can see all you need to see. As for the happiness of the testers, just read the SC forums.

    Oh wait, you dont trust the forums, hmm what should i do now....

    So you believe that spreadsheet? Good for you a lot of us don't. :-D
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    CrazKanuk said:
    jcrg99 said:
    Daikuru said:
    You guys are in the need to prove your assumptions and accusations, or do you realy think we like research every single silly thing you post in this forum or believe what you are saying? That is yet the problem with you guys, you could avoid it easily by providing us with links that proves your claims.
    I am still waiting for that relevant link that I asked you about your claims. Simple logic wasn't enough to figure out. So, please, can you provide it now?
    That's ok, people are still waiting for a relevant link from you since you began posting here. 
    I did that. You guys didn't. I am waiting.

    Let's bring an example now. Let's be objective (one of your complaints), focusing in just one thing.

    This statement:

    "The game-as-described in the original crowdfunding campaign included Squadron 42, regular community updates and an alpha multiplayer only."

    It was made by Chris Roberts recently in two occasions in similar form. One, in his letter to The Escapist and previously, in the Letter of "I am back" when he came back from the performance capture works on UK.
    Do you need links to prove that, or you acknowledge, based in your deep research and following, that he said that? Don't worry. If you really need. I can provide, making a quick research here.

    If not necessary the links, I just ask you and anyone else who decides to engage in the discussion... is that statement true?
  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    jcrg99 said:
    Daikuru said:
    I already posted a link to the Spreadsheet, where you can see all you need to see. As for the happiness of the testers, just read the SC forums.

    The spreadsheet, besides been fan-made (don't you ignore evidences when they are from Derek Smart?) is not telling the source of the money.

    As you can see, after you posted, that generated several reasonable doubts from different users.

    Still waiting. Just prove us wrong. Follow your own advice ;)

    Oh... wait... You can't. You have nothing, but your own speculations. And you are far from having any evidence to prove your points, so that made your argument even weaker than any other that I have been seen presented her, to demonstrate that the doubts are valid and reasonable and that CIG's attitude is at the minimum, odd.
    Seems like you are never happy with anything, even if it shown to you black on white, so be it.

    And btw, the only one with speculations which were never proven, is...taaada...you.

    Im not gonna play this game with you, since you just avoid to bring any proof.

    Its your turn first, mister.

    Have fun!
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    So now it really comes to a head. And it will make people scramble to rethink their arguments.

    Has SC REALLY 'raised'/made 102 million? If so then the orignal arguments still are valid. If they HAVENT then how much HAVE they made/raised and why the inflated numbers?

    The reasons are obvious but if they are inflated and the number is much lower then it would explain why there are delays and why this demo theyre trying to pass as an alpha is in the state its in.

    So what is better truth or hope? If the money doesnt exists are people still hopeful that with numbers that are real the game can be made. If the numbers are real we already know people are hopeful and downright defiant it will get made. There are of course people on the fence that see the numbers being quoted, and see the product and of course want more from it.

    If they are inflated and they really are spending what (little) they have on the game and they really did rebuild the engine then theyre performing a financial miracle. Unless the numbers are 'only' fudged by 100% I think for 50 mil they could rebuild the engine and have a broken demo to show for it.

    Unfortunately that fanmade CIG sourced spreadsheet actually raises more questions than it answers.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    Daikuru said:
    Seems like you are never happy with anything, even if it shown to you black on white, so be it.

    And btw, the only one with speculations which were never proven, is...taaada...you.

    Im not gonna play this game with you, since you just avoid to bring any proof.

    Its your turn first, mister.

    Have fun!
    Since you are claiming that your spreadsheet shows everything that I asked for, for what I asked evidence, and since you presented that, and maybe I am just failing to understand the spreadsheet, please tell me.

    How many new backers pledged more than 1 dollar this month?

    How many backers that paid for something Star Citizen have?

    How many individuals (considering that some have multiple packages) Star Citizen have, as backers? Probably you will get this from CIG. They are so transparent, right? There is no reason so they would hide such information, after all, they claim to be a massive success all the time. Win-win situation here, right?


    That's what I want to know. Just that. Pretty quick, simple, in case you told the true about your evidence or even Chris Roberts, when claimed to Escapist, while accusing them to lie, that "had nothing to hide".

    And just one more: Considering the backers which pledge frequently, I want a graph to see if their individual pledges have been growing or dropping along the years.

    If I am wrong in my statements... these statistics will prove me wrong. So... finish with me. Prove me wrong. Don't worry. It will prove not just me. But all the people with doubts wrong too. It's going to worth your effort to gather the data, from your source, that you claimed to have everything that is needed. More than any reply defending CIG  that you did along these years.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Its probably not corollary, their first 100K backers they were right at 7 million. At 200K backers they were at around 12 million. At 300K they were at 27 million raised. This rise can be attributed to more hype and ships being 'given' to pledgers. 400K backers they were at 39.5 million raised. Hype train fully on the tracks....500K backers (19 months after kickstarter and 16 months ago) 48 million; 600K backers 54 million raised; 700K backers 68 million; 800K 75 million; 900k 83 million; 1 million backers 92 million; 1.1 million backers 101 million dollars raised.

    Take those break points for what theyre worth.
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:

    You realize they ban backers that talk bad about SC on other sites? So my guess is you may have already been banned.

    Can you please provide us with the relevant info ?
    Just check their forums and rules.
    You can play dumb as long as you like, i will keep asking.

    You wrote that they are banning backers for talking bad about SC on other boards.

    Link us the relevant info. Show us.
    Do what you like, if you have no clue how to research things that isn't my problem. It is all there to read.
    This is not how it works broh,

    You are the one with the accusations and the "facts" about SC and CR, you are expected to provide the evidence in order to back up your claims. And from now on every time you come forth with things like "CR did that" or "CR said that" or "CiG did so" i will be there asking you to link us the info.

    It's about time we see what weight your word has.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    rodarin said:
    Its probably not corollary, their first 100K backers they were right at 7 million. At 200K backers they were at around 12 million. At 300K they were at 27 million raised. This rise can be attributed to more hype and ships being 'given' to pledgers. 400K backers they were at 39.5 million raised. Hype train fully on the tracks....500K backers (19 months after kickstarter and 16 months ago) 48 million; 600K backers 54 million raised; 700K backers 68 million; 800K 75 million; 900k 83 million; 1 million backers 92 million; 1.1 million backers 101 million dollars raised.

    Take those break points for what theyre worth.
    Ops... there is a problem. You quickly felt in the trap...

    What you refer as 100k...200k...300k... and so on... are not "backers". Are website accounts.


    Evidence: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12975-The-Aurora-Revealed

    April 26th 2013
    the spreadshhet claims near 160k to what you referred as "backers" meaning 1 backer, 1 individual who paid something, accurately speaking right?

    Here's the statement of Roberts in that day:

    "Over 40,000 people have signed up to use the Roberts Space Industries website without backing the game and this promotion is designed to offer them a final chance to back the game before prices go up and access to the site and the alpha are dropped. "

    "According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back. Some of these may be accounts of people that have pledged but their account is unlinked. Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen. The last group are people that are interested but aren’t ready to back yet, either because they are not convinced just yet, or are waiting until they can play something. A really interesting statistic is that almost 20,000 of the accounts with Golden Ticket status show as of not having a pledge!"


    Notice that in the last Roberts statement, he is not referring or indicating how many of those PAID accounts are multiple accounts paid of the same person.

    That will give us 120k paid accounts, considering that statement of Roberts true, in that day... but how many... individuals? And how many individuals were gifted, having a package but not really putting their money on it (a good number, so we can evaluate how is the level of trust going along the road)?



  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Ahh well I was looking at the google doc. I dont bother with conspiracies I take what I can read and see and do what I can with it.

    But if the numbers are hat low the only way theyre making money steadily over the past 3 years is if (multiple) people are sending them money every single day. Which is highly unlikely.

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    jcrg99 said:
    rodarin said:
    Its probably not corollary, their first 100K backers they were right at 7 million. At 200K backers they were at around 12 million. At 300K they were at 27 million raised. This rise can be attributed to more hype and ships being 'given' to pledgers. 400K backers they were at 39.5 million raised. Hype train fully on the tracks....500K backers (19 months after kickstarter and 16 months ago) 48 million; 600K backers 54 million raised; 700K backers 68 million; 800K 75 million; 900k 83 million; 1 million backers 92 million; 1.1 million backers 101 million dollars raised.

    Take those break points for what theyre worth.
    Ops... there is a problem. You quickly felt in the trap...

    What you refer as 100k...200k...300k... and so on... are not "backers". Are website accounts.


    Evidence: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12975-The-Aurora-Revealed

    April 26th 2013
    the spreadshhet claims near 160k to what you referred as "backers" meaning 1 backer, 1 individual who paid something, accurately speaking right?

    Here's the statement of Roberts in that day:

    "Over 40,000 people have signed up to use the Roberts Space Industries website without backing the game and this promotion is designed to offer them a final chance to back the game before prices go up and access to the site and the alpha are dropped. "

    "According to our database we have over 40,000 users that signed up but have yet to back. Some of these may be accounts of people that have pledged but their account is unlinked. Some are secondary accounts of people that have backed through a different account. Some of these will be people that signed up but have since decided that they are not interested in Star Citizen. The last group are people that are interested but aren’t ready to back yet, either because they are not convinced just yet, or are waiting until they can play something. A really interesting statistic is that almost 20,000 of the accounts with Golden Ticket status show as of not having a pledge!"


    Notice that in the last Roberts statement, he is not referring or indicating how many of those PAID accounts are multiple accounts paid of the same person.

    That will give us 120k paid accounts, considering that statement of Roberts true, in that day... but how many... individuals?



    And with this you prove what exactly?

    Btw, i am still waiting for that info about CR stating that he needs 150 mil. for Squadron 42. Since you are so handy with providing proof this shouldn't be difficult for you.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    rodarin said:
    Ahh well I was looking at the google doc. I dont bother with conspiracies I take what I can read and see and do what I can with it.

    But if the numbers are hat low the only way theyre making money steadily over the past 3 years is if (multiple) people are sending them money every single day. Which is highly unlikely.

    Well... it's not a conspiracy theory. That is a fact. The number that you referred as backers, is not backers. Easy to confirm looking to the own Roberts statements, as I linked.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    rodarin said:
    Ahh well I was looking at the google doc. I dont bother with conspiracies I take what I can read and see and do what I can with it.

    But if the numbers are hat low the only way theyre making money steadily over the past 3 years is if (multiple) people are sending them money every single day. Which is highly unlikely.

    You do mean what you can read coming form CR is all true. Anyone else it isn't true right? You can't have it just one way. You need to dig for the truth on both sides. Right?
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Brenics said:
    rodarin said:
    Ahh well I was looking at the google doc. I dont bother with conspiracies I take what I can read and see and do what I can with it.

    But if the numbers are hat low the only way theyre making money steadily over the past 3 years is if (multiple) people are sending them money every single day. Which is highly unlikely.

    You do mean what you can read coming form CR is all true. Anyone else it isn't true right? You can't have it just one way. You need to dig for the truth on both sides. Right?
    CR isn't accusing anyone for practicing a scam. You and the guy above are doing so. You need to back up your word and your claims.

    I am still waiting for both you and jcrg99 to provide the info i asked for. Let's see how much worth your word has.
  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    edited December 2015
    The spreadsheet is based on the SC Wiki (http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Crowdfunding_campaign), yes they are community-based, but they have their numbers from the RSI website and made a summary.

    In the spreadsheet you can clearly see the increase of citizens and at the same time the increase of $ from $81,264 on 2015-12-12 (the time Alpha 2.0 went live) to $122,663 on 2015-12-13 (which was they day they  reached 100 mio, from 99,952,219 on 2015-12-12 to 100,074,882 on 2015-12-13). 

    Citizens increased in this time from 1,084,066 to 1,088,711. Its unlikely that it is all coincidence right after the Alpha 2.0 went live. And the numbers are constantly increasing in $ and citizens (and backers). And when i remembert it right, all i was saying is that  more people are backing this game, which is a fact, believe it or not.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    - Albert Einstein


  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    edited December 2015
    Shodanas said:
    Brenics said:
    rodarin said:
    Ahh well I was looking at the google doc. I dont bother with conspiracies I take what I can read and see and do what I can with it.

    But if the numbers are hat low the only way theyre making money steadily over the past 3 years is if (multiple) people are sending them money every single day. Which is highly unlikely.

    You do mean what you can read coming form CR is all true. Anyone else it isn't true right? You can't have it just one way. You need to dig for the truth on both sides. Right?
    CR isn't accusing anyone for practicing a scam. You and the guy above are doing so. You need to back up your word and your claims.

    I am still waiting for both you and jcrg99 to provide the info i asked for. Let's see how much worth your word has.
    Ok. So here's something so we be more objective here:

    This statement:

    "The game-as-described in the original crowdfunding campaign included Squadron 42, regular community updates and an alpha multiplayer only."

    It was made by Chris Roberts recently in two occasions in similar form. One, in his letter to The Escapist and previously, in the Letter of "I am back" when he came back from the performance capture works on UK.

    Is that statement true?

    P.S. Just an addendum, but please does not focus on that, just answer the question, but its a fact that CR accused The Escapist, Derek Smart and many other backers and ex-employees of "scam".
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Sure there is no evidence for this, until someone is hacking into the CIG Account of Ortwin.

    For the steady numbers I could imagine that they had some private Investors and instead of raising the numbers by a huge amount in one go (which would call the IRS on plan) they are raising it by tiny bits, especially on low sale days to hold up the illusion that the income is steady (for the financial institutes and fans).

    These are my own thoughts, I have neither links nor protocols to verify.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

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