so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Fortunately for everyone, you aren't the arbiter of what people think is "core development."
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
I don't agree with the point exactly (it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned), but i can see why some would have an issue with crowdfunding money being used "seemingly" frivolously.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
I don't agree with the point exactly (it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned), but i can see why some would have an issue with crowdfunding money being used "seemingly" frivolously.
from the best I can tell there is nothing 'seemingly frivolous' about it. Its core dev costs best I can tell
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Isn't this one of those
You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'...
I dont think so, best I can tell its part of core development costs. All successful gaming companies do it so it must be part of making a successful game. any chance at all on seeing the point here? and maybe even going out on an extreeme limb and saying 'yes good point'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I dont think so, best I can tell its part of core development costs. All successful gaming companies do it so it must be part of making a successful game. any chance at all on seeing the point here? and maybe even going out on an extreeme limb and saying 'yes good point'
Successful gaming companies do this AFTER they've already made a successful game. You probably shouldn't start building the statues until after you've released something and have enough income to move forward.
Surely you can see the difference between a company WITHOUT a released game charging for things and a company that HAS a released game charging for things. The consumers are going to have different standards for each, especially when one makes a promise about the future spending of that company.
Surely I can see we're not even discussing the original point, ship sales being sales vs ships being part of pledges, you responded to, which has little to do with what fans want from released games..
Ok, so how about this?
The people that were told that 100% of their money would get used to fund the game when they pledged for a game and a ship certainly have a legitimate complaint.
Whether ships are sales or pledges has nothing to do with how legitimate the complaint is. Why you are basing everything you are saying on that idea is odd because you have said nothing that supports it.
I think ship sales being sales would make all of the difference in such a matter, if they have some sort of product being sold to make money on (ships or other odds and ends), they could use such funds for the more questionable things they'd purchase, essentially any caveats like Murals, expensive coffee makers, etc..etc..etc.. It's the difference between using legitimate company raised funds, and funds that were given in good faith for other more important things.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Surely you can see the difference between a company WITHOUT a released game charging for things and a company that HAS a released game charging for things. The consumers are going to have different standards for each, especially when one makes a promise about the future spending of that company.
Surely I can see we're not even discussing the original point, ship sales being sales vs ships being part of pledges, you responded to, which has little to do with what fans want from released games..
Ok, so how about this?
The people that were told that 100% of their money would get used to fund the game when they pledged for a game and a ship certainly have a legitimate complaint.
Whether ships are sales or pledges has nothing to do with how legitimate the complaint is. Why you are basing everything you are saying on that idea is odd because you have said nothing that supports it.
I think ship sales being sales would make all of the difference in such a matter, if they have some sort of product being sold to make money on (ships or other odds and ends), they could use such funds for the more questionable things they'd purchase, essentially any caveats like Murals, expensive coffee makers, etc..etc..etc.. It's the difference between using legitimate company raised funds, and funds that were given in good faith for other more important things.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
I say again...large murals ARE part of development costs.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Surely you can see the difference between a company WITHOUT a released game charging for things and a company that HAS a released game charging for things. The consumers are going to have different standards for each, especially when one makes a promise about the future spending of that company.
Surely I can see we're not even discussing the original point, ship sales being sales vs ships being part of pledges, you responded to, which has little to do with what fans want from released games..
Ok, so how about this?
The people that were told that 100% of their money would get used to fund the game when they pledged for a game and a ship certainly have a legitimate complaint.
Whether ships are sales or pledges has nothing to do with how legitimate the complaint is. Why you are basing everything you are saying on that idea is odd because you have said nothing that supports it.
I think ship sales being sales would make all of the difference in such a matter, if they have some sort of product being sold to make money on (ships or other odds and ends), they could use such funds for the more questionable things they'd purchase, essentially any caveats like Murals, expensive coffee makers, etc..etc..etc.. It's the difference between using legitimate company raised funds, and funds that were given in good faith for other more important things.
Oh, so you think that it being a pledge makes it MORE legitimate to complain. For some reason I thought you were trying to say it was the other way around. Either way, there is an additional factor that has played out specifically for SC. They promised all funds would be used for development. So even minor infractions of this could set the more sensitive people off.
Also, I agree with you that this isn't a big deal. I think these digital things are about 2-4 times the cost of just painting the wall with nice paint. If they put up a $50,000 statue of Chris Roberts Head or something I'd see reason for people to start flipping out.
Surely you can see the difference between a company WITHOUT a released game charging for things and a company that HAS a released game charging for things. The consumers are going to have different standards for each, especially when one makes a promise about the future spending of that company.
Surely I can see we're not even discussing the original point, ship sales being sales vs ships being part of pledges, you responded to, which has little to do with what fans want from released games..
Ok, so how about this?
The people that were told that 100% of their money would get used to fund the game when they pledged for a game and a ship certainly have a legitimate complaint.
Whether ships are sales or pledges has nothing to do with how legitimate the complaint is. Why you are basing everything you are saying on that idea is odd because you have said nothing that supports it.
I think ship sales being sales would make all of the difference in such a matter, if they have some sort of product being sold to make money on (ships or other odds and ends), they could use such funds for the more questionable things they'd purchase, essentially any caveats like Murals, expensive coffee makers, etc..etc..etc.. It's the difference between using legitimate company raised funds, and funds that were given in good faith for other more important things.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
NO I said if ship sales were actual sales that would be the case, which I have never agreed they were actual sales. I was just making a point that when I offered the opinion they weren't actual sales in another thread, people gave me all kinds of grief over that. Weren't you one of them?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Isn't this one of those
You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'...
Some of your thread on this SC topic have been worth reading. Some points I can see having contention for backers. This thread... kinda silly. Are we going to get upset next because they dont use 1 ply toilet paper over the coshy 2 ply they have been using in the office? Maybe we should get made they use fluorescent lights over LED lights as they are throwing away investors money on the power bill. This is normal cost of business and nothing out of the norm for any business.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
I say again...large murals ARE part of development costs.
Sorry I just do not see a mural being part of development. Now the guy that created the ship I can see as development if he made it and worked in the concept demo they have. But to make it and sell it for income also does not seem a part of development. More so after getting 110m from it. So far i see no game made from any development but I see a lot of buildings, expensive furniture, cars, home's all being bought with sales from concept art. .
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Isn't this one of those
You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'...
Some of your thread on this SC topic have been worth reading. Some points I can see having contention for backers. This thread... kinda silly. Are we going to get upset next because they dont use 1 ply toilet paper over the coshy 2 ply they have been using in the office? Maybe we should get made they use fluorescent lights over LED lights as they are throwing away investors money on the power bill. This is normal cost of business and nothing out of the norm for any business.
Normally I would agree, but this is the first KS/Crowdfunding done to make a game, not to become rich and buy all sorts of things a normal company would do that actually sells a product. There is nothing actually made to sell. The old TOS said they were buying pictures of ships. Then it was changed to say it was selling pledges. Really seems like Robert's is all over the place with this and not actually making anything that even acts like a real game.
so your editing posts and then asking me to go back and read it as if what I replied to orginally was the edited post and not the orginal.
nicely done!
Eh.. You asked if I agreed with the post (for whatever reason) I simply pointed out I removed most of that post, leaving only the tidbit I was referring to. Now we're here.
ah I see
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Isn't this one of those
You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'...
Some of your thread on this SC topic have been worth reading. Some points I can see having contention for backers. This thread... kinda silly. Are we going to get upset next because they dont use 1 ply toilet paper over the coshy 2 ply they have been using in the office? Maybe we should get made they use fluorescent lights over LED lights as they are throwing away investors money on the power bill. This is normal cost of business and nothing out of the norm for any business.
Normally I would agree, but this is the first KS/Crowdfunding done to make a game, not to become rich and buy all sorts of things a normal company would do that actually sells a product. There is nothing actually made to sell. The old TOS said they were buying pictures of ships. Then it was changed to say it was selling pledges. Really seems like Robert's is all over the place with this and not actually making anything that even acts like a real game.
Then make a thread about that. Not something that costs a few hundred bucks. I am sure they are spending more a year in toilet paper then they did on this. Your not making any points here worth talking about.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
I say again...large murals ARE part of development costs.
Sorry I just do not see a mural being part of development. Now the guy that created the ship I can see as development if he made it and worked in the concept demo they have. But to make it and sell it for income also does not seem a part of development. More so after getting 110m from it. So far i see no game made from any development but I see a lot of buildings, expensive furniture, cars, home's all being bought with sales from concept art. .
That's okay you don't have to see it that way, because you don't know. For all we know the employee could have a side business where he does these as a pet project to grow interest for potential customers. We have zero proof that any money was even paid to have this done. You're just grasping for straws that fit your narrative, it's getting pretty old. If you spent money on SC and you have a problem, ask for a refund. If you don't like the game, go play something else. Coming here day after day trying to post and find things to nitpick about a game you aren't even going to buy is pathetic after a few years.
When we get some real proof we can start to take it seriously. People arguing over a damn wall print, or clickbait articles by gamergate news sites doesn't prove anything but the fact people will be petty over anything. Even without all the facts.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
I say again...large murals ARE part of development costs.
Sorry I just do not see a mural being part of development. Now the guy that created the ship I can see as development if he made it and worked in the concept demo they have. But to make it and sell it for income also does not seem a part of development. More so after getting 110m from it. So far i see no game made from any development but I see a lot of buildings, expensive furniture, cars, home's all being bought with sales from concept art. .
I would assume every single major successful development company has a large mural in their lobby so why would we think that is not a requirement for being a successful developer?
I think maybe crowd micro-management by non-developers who are far removed from all details of why and how purchases were made is pretty dicy work.
Does a developer need a white board? How big? what square footage of an office is best? should they pay for parking or not pay for parking? parking is not part of development costs. what about cleaning the toilets? part of or not part of?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Wait so we know all monthly subs pay for filming shit. So now you say selling ships are for buying murals and anything else they want. So where does the money he said would only go to game development come from?
I say again...large murals ARE part of development costs.
Sorry I just do not see a mural being part of development. Now the guy that created the ship I can see as development if he made it and worked in the concept demo they have. But to make it and sell it for income also does not seem a part of development. More so after getting 110m from it. So far i see no game made from any development but I see a lot of buildings, expensive furniture, cars, home's all being bought with sales from concept art. .
That's okay you don't have to see it that way, because you don't know. For all we know the employee could have a side business where he does these as a pet project to grow interest for potential customers. We have zero proof that any money was even paid to have this done. You're just grasping for straws that fit your narrative, it's getting pretty old. If you spent money on SC and you have a problem, ask for a refund. If you don't like the game, go play something else. Coming here day after day trying to post and find things to nitpick about a game you aren't even going to buy is pathetic after a few years.
When we get some real proof we can start to take it seriously. People arguing over a damn wall print, or clickbait articles by gamergate news sites doesn't prove anything but the fact people will be petty over anything. Even without all the facts.
I have to say the same WTF are you talking about? How can a company pay for stuff like this when the game they say they would create only using backer money isn't even 1/4 way done. Maybe you should go play a finished game and see what it is like.
Until the game is finished they should only be using funds from concept art should only be using that money for the game.
I do have one question for you. How much do you actually think Robert's has left when he paid for all these companies furniture and these murals and paying the employee's? Wouldn't that be the real question about all this. Erillion keeps saying they have 110m but in reality they may actually be broke and need 3.2m a month to keep coming in just to keep going day to day.
Ok... First off.. If said mural is in the lobby... It falls under marketing and thusly the marketing budget... No matter if it cost 1500 or 15K (and in marketing 15K is a wet fart in space) because it becomes part of the company profile, the thing potential future partners (and if Brenny and DS are to be believed) new investors. The intention is to sell a vision of the product on offer. That is why a lot of companies have a lobby that is a heck lot more flashy in comparison to their actual working pits and offices. To sell a product.
Secondly... and this is important. Since we are making up hypothetical scenarios that we can´t prove.... (i love these) how do we know that none of the high-rolles backing this project did not personally contact Chris and said "Chrissy you devilishly sexy rivet of boat... How about you spiffy up those drab walls i hear so much about.. use my money. Here are my transaction id´s" It could happen after all.
But honestly, if you are a backer and feel that your money are being spent in a way that you feel are wrong. I am sure you can find a way to get them back. Because... and i know this is a foreign concept to some...
But the Star Citizen project is not done by direct democracy... It is very much a question of representative democracy... you "vote" with your wallet and then hope and pray that said vote was not misplaced... But unlike the people who will vote for Thrumpy.... You can seek to get your "vote" back... they will have to live with their mistake for 4-8 years... .. . Actually that is not that much difference to be honest...
I am illustrating by example the problems that will arise from remote crowd-micro-mangement of a project. disaster is what happens. Not that SC is not a distaster in its own right but micromanagement by crowd would just make it worse
after all think about? do most studios have a mural? yes then who is to say definitiveity that it not required?
also...if one is to mis-use funds is this REALLY what one would do? 'hey bob I have 15k want to go buy a boat? 'no I want to buy a huge mural of a spaceship and put it in the office lobby'
seriously?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I am illustrating by example the problems that will arise from remote crowd-micro-mangement of a project. disaster is what happens. Not that SC is not a distaster in its own right but micromanagement by crowd would just make it worse
Well said but it doesn't make your post any less trollish. FFS you have @Brenics arguing against you and we all know how he makes Don Quixote look like a quadriplegic on Ambien when it comes to SC.
As to your edit let's not confuse having boatloads of money to burn with necessary business expenses. A mural is not a legitimate business expense unless you sell them.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
I am illustrating by example the problems that will arise from remote crowd-micro-mangement of a project. disaster is what happens. Not that SC is not a distaster in its own right but micromanagement by crowd would just make it worse
Well said but it doesn't make your post any less trollish. FFS you have @Brenics arguing against you and we all know how he makes Don Quixote look like a quadriplegic on Ambien when it comes to SC.
some people need example. actually in fact MOST people need example.
more over, I think the reason they didnt address my original point or the examples and instead skirt around it is because they know I am right.
Its an example of two sides not being forthright and both sides knowing each side is not being forthright.
pretty much all game releated internet threads
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
well from what I can see in the gaming industry a 15k mural actually IS part of core development so I am not sure what you guys are crying about in this thread to begin with
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You Say 'Tomato', I say 'Tomato'...
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Also, I agree with you that this isn't a big deal. I think these digital things are about 2-4 times the cost of just painting the wall with nice paint. If they put up a $50,000 statue of Chris Roberts Head or something I'd see reason for people to start flipping out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
When we get some real proof we can start to take it seriously. People arguing over a damn wall print, or clickbait articles by gamergate news sites doesn't prove anything but the fact people will be petty over anything. Even without all the facts.
I think maybe crowd micro-management by non-developers who are far removed from all details of why and how purchases were made is pretty dicy work. Does a developer need a white board? How big? what square footage of an office is best? should they pay for parking or not pay for parking? parking is not part of development costs. what about cleaning the toilets? part of or not part of?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Until the game is finished they should only be using funds from concept art should only be using that money for the game.
I do have one question for you. How much do you actually think Robert's has left when he paid for all these companies furniture and these murals and paying the employee's? Wouldn't that be the real question about all this. Erillion keeps saying they have 110m but in reality they may actually be broke and need 3.2m a month to keep coming in just to keep going day to day.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Grats @SEANMCAD!
But seriously, you can't see what he's doing?
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Secondly... and this is important. Since we are making up hypothetical scenarios that we can´t prove.... (i love these) how do we know that none of the high-rolles backing this project did not personally contact Chris and said "Chrissy you devilishly sexy rivet of boat... How about you spiffy up those drab walls i hear so much about.. use my money. Here are my transaction id´s" It could happen after all.
But honestly, if you are a backer and feel that your money are being spent in a way that you feel are wrong. I am sure you can find a way to get them back. Because... and i know this is a foreign concept to some...
But the Star Citizen project is not done by direct democracy... It is very much a question of representative democracy... you "vote" with your wallet and then hope and pray that said vote was not misplaced... But unlike the people who will vote for Thrumpy.... You can seek to get your "vote" back... they will have to live with their mistake for 4-8 years... .. . Actually that is not that much difference to be honest...
This have been a good conversation
after all think about?
do most studios have a mural? yes
then who is to say definitiveity that it not required?
also...if one is to mis-use funds is this REALLY what one would do?
'hey bob I have 15k want to go buy a boat?
'no I want to buy a huge mural of a spaceship and put it in the office lobby'
seriously?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As to your edit let's not confuse having boatloads of money to burn with necessary business expenses. A mural is not a legitimate business expense unless you sell them.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
more over, I think the reason they didnt address my original point or the examples and instead skirt around it is because they know I am right.
Its an example of two sides not being forthright and both sides knowing each side is not being forthright.
pretty much all game releated internet threads
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me