The are running CIG like its a huge established studio - trouble is they haven't got any real income (backer money is not income) so stuff like this looks wasteful.
The are running CIG like its a huge established studio - trouble is they haven't got any real income (backer money is not income) so stuff like this looks wasteful.
you buy stuff like this out of PROFIT.
This thread took a weird turn while I was asleep but is back on track somehow. Grats for that!
Quoted post is what OP and others are saying. It's as simple as that. Buying a $50 canvas and having a talented studio personnel paint something on it would work just as good.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Without stuff like this companies don't sell anything and close. There are - I suggest - no companies that would not consider stuff like this valid expenses.
You are absolutely right. However, I find it disingenuous (to put it mildly) to strongly imply that 100 pennies on the crowdfunded dollar are going toward game development, when in fact it's 30 pennies toward marketing and advertisements, et cetera.
That's why I assume that people who actually understand the way large businesses operate must cringe at some of Chris' comments from time to time. This is more a comment toward the nature of CIG's PR than anything else.
I have no monetary skin in this race, so with that I shall bow out of these subforums for a while and let fans and critics alike come to terms with matters appearing as they may.
/bows
CR spends too much on marketing and on that I completely agree.
here is the thing however, when it comes to marketing some over do it, some under do it, some do it just right, some dont need to, some really do.
Crowd Deciding exactly what the % should be is crowd MICROMANAGEMENT and it will not work. You cant crowd micromanage a project PEROID. You either like how they do it or you move the F on.
oh and by the way...if ubisoft markets out the goddamn wazo why cant CR?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Sooner or later the law will come in wanting to know where all the money went. When that day comes the fanbois will rue the days they spent on here blindly defending this sham of a game.
They have probably been hiding it in a Swiss bank account
The are running CIG like its a huge established studio - trouble is they haven't got any real income (backer money is not income) so stuff like this looks wasteful.
you buy stuff like this out of PROFIT.
How do you know what their revenue is or where it comes from? We know about KS but are you sure they have no other revenue streams? Are you sure there are no private investors?
Curious because if it is common knowledge others would be posting it and some would not be asking for the right to investigate their books.
So your post is purely an OPINION based on limited information.
Yup. This despite the fact that Chris has repeatedly said that the money would go into the game, not PR, marketing or the like.
Does that include offices to work in, seats to sit on, computers to work on, internet connections to communicate with, software to design with, lighting to see by, doors to maintain privacy, kitchens to cook food in, security to protect staff and equipment, insurance to cover accidents....
For someone with so many years in the business you sure don't seem to understand what is takes to make that game.
Ignorant, stupid or malicious I don't care but please shut up.
...said the guy comparing a MURAL ON THE WALL to items needed in an office space. Go figure.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
"I promised a long time ago that the funds that we raise prior to what we consider the commercial release of Star Citizen would go towards additional development. Because of all of your support we can build this game bigger and better than anyone thought possible a few years ago.
With big numbers comes big attention. Some people look at the number and say “Why should they have all that money?” Well it’s because you want to build a big, bold game that doesn’t compromise! This is the secret. The additional money that comes in doesn’t go towards dividends for shareholders or making analysts happy with our profitability. It gets invested into making Star Citizen the best it can be. Hiring the best talent possible and allowing them to reach for the stars. Your contributions are going towards making the game better for you and all your friends. How could that possibly be a bad thing?"
Do you mean that? I dont think he is saying that all the money will only go toward the game to 100%.
I don't want to be a "little person" in holding on to "he-said, she-said" type stuff, and I'll assume you weren't following this project back then, but Chris definitely stated to the press elsewhere (too busy to find the link now, apologies if someone already posted) that 100% of the funds collected via crowdfunding prior to release would go toward making the game. As in: their profit margin would be precisely 0%.
This was when the project was under full steam toward 100M, and was ostensibly a way to assure contributors that their "donations" were not being used to "line the pockets" of CIG.
Having had some academic training in financial management, I immediately recognized Chris' assertion as ludicrous for a project of this nature; however, I was scoffed away from most discussions by legions of fans (this was prior to summer 2015).
Now, I can see how having large scale artwork can be a good thing toward motivating employees, sparking the imagination, etc. Therefore, I suppose you could argue that this is a "project expense". Indeed, perhaps this mural is Chris' way of remaining true to his word.
*glances at mural*
...well, at least they aren't lighting candles in front of it.
As a crowd funded project, Star Citizen's scope is based directly on the support provided by our backers. Money pledged goes directly to the game's development.
Stretch goals listed here are intended to reward early backers and to indicate how we are achieving Star Citizen's full vision.
I have a lot of industry friends pat me on the back and say, “Wow, it must be so great to be operating in profit even before you ship!” Their look usually turns to incredulity when I explain that my intention is for all the money we bring in before launch to be spent on development.
This is all being made possible by your enthusiasm and support. As we promised since the start of the campaign, we invest every dollar raised into the game. Anyone with knowledge about game development can assess our spending based on the information we share every month. It speaks for itself that from the outset our TOS provides for an accounting to be published if we ever had to stop development before delivering. With the progress and the funds we’ve raised this is no longer an issue, but quite obviously we wouldn’t have provided for this clause, if we weren’t using your funds very carefully for the development of Star Citizen.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
Without stuff like this companies don't sell anything and close. There are - I suggest - no companies that would not consider stuff like this valid expenses.
You are absolutely right. However, I find it disingenuous (to put it mildly) to strongly imply that 100 pennies on the crowdfunded dollar are going toward game development, when in fact it's 30 pennies toward marketing and advertisements, et cetera.
That's why I assume that people who actually understand the way large businesses operate must cringe at some of Chris' comments from time to time. This is more a comment toward the nature of CIG's PR than anything else.
I have no monetary skin in this race, so with that I shall bow out of these subforums for a while and let fans and critics alike come to terms with matters appearing as they may.
/bows
I agree, but I don't think it's disingenuous. There are plenty of costs which are criticized by people who simply don't understand the cost of doing business. It's like saying that "Well he bought computers, so that's not 100% of the money going towards the development of the game." or "Well he rents offices, so that's not really 100% funding towards the game."
Someone with more knowledge than me could probably confirm better, but from what videos I've seen, the CIG offices are relatively minimalistic. I mean there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.
Also, as far as advertising, etc. goes, it's commonly accepted that marketing and advertising are costs of doing business. In order to be successful, you must raise funds, so these are all accepted costs and, indirectly, impact the ability to develop the game. Without the marketing and advertising, it's entirely possible that SC would have ended up being a much different project, with a much lower budget.
As far as the picture is concerned, I find it hilarious that we're really going to whine and complain over a print that they probably got done for a couple hundred bucks at Wal-Mart. Mass effect? The guy that did it is quite obviously happy with his work, as quoted in the print. He's excited. These types of employees are more productive. So the mass effect is that this guy is super happy and, likely, the other contributors are also. So for a couple hundred bucks you've increased productivity significantly across a number of employees. If people can't see that then they've obviously never worked in management. I give my high performers plenty of pet projects on an annual basis. It helps with innovation, increases job satisfaction, let's them flex their creativity, and inspires others around them. If you think I'm spouting bullshit, look up any management blog anywhere in the world to find subjects about high performers.
Without stuff like this companies don't sell anything and close. There are - I suggest - no companies that would not consider stuff like this valid expenses.
You are absolutely right. However, I find it disingenuous (to put it mildly) to strongly imply that 100 pennies on the crowdfunded dollar are going toward game development, when in fact it's 30 pennies toward marketing and advertisements, et cetera.
That's why I assume that people who actually understand the way large businesses operate must cringe at some of Chris' comments from time to time. This is more a comment toward the nature of CIG's PR than anything else.
I have no monetary skin in this race, so with that I shall bow out of these subforums for a while and let fans and critics alike come to terms with matters appearing as they may.
/bows
I agree, but I don't think it's disingenuous. There are plenty of costs which are criticized by people who simply don't understand the cost of doing business. It's like saying that "Well he bought computers, so that's not 100% of the money going towards the development of the game." or "Well he rents offices, so that's not really 100% funding towards the game."
Someone with more knowledge than me could probably confirm better, but from what videos I've seen, the CIG offices are relatively minimalistic. I mean there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.
Also, as far as advertising, etc. goes, it's commonly accepted that marketing and advertising are costs of doing business. In order to be successful, you must raise funds, so these are all accepted costs and, indirectly, impact the ability to develop the game. Without the marketing and advertising, it's entirely possible that SC would have ended up being a much different project, with a much lower budget.
As far as the picture is concerned, I find it hilarious that we're really going to whine and complain over a print that they probably got done for a couple hundred bucks at Wal-Mart. Mass effect? The guy that did it is quite obviously happy with his work, as quoted in the print. He's excited. These types of employees are more productive. So the mass effect is that this guy is super happy and, likely, the other contributors are also. So for a couple hundred bucks you've increased productivity significantly across a number of employees. If people can't see that then they've obviously never worked in management. I give my high performers plenty of pet projects on an annual basis. It helps with innovation, increases job satisfaction, let's them flex their creativity, and inspires others around them. If you think I'm spouting bullshit, look up any management blog anywhere in the world to find subjects about high performers.
LOL I really can't believe you said all that and compare Roberts to real companies with real products.
I do like how you used Walmart really shows how far you guys will stretch reality!
Yup. This despite the fact that Chris has repeatedly said that the money would go into the game, not PR, marketing or the like.
Does that include offices to work in, seats to sit on, computers to work on, internet connections to communicate with, software to design with, lighting to see by, doors to maintain privacy, kitchens to cook food in, security to protect staff and equipment, insurance to cover accidents....
For someone with so many years in the business you sure don't seem to understand what is takes to make that game.
Ignorant, stupid or malicious I don't care but please shut up.
...said the guy comparing a MURAL ON THE WALL to items needed in an office space. Go figure.
Every successful company I have worked for had such things.
Guess if you have never been part of a successful company you would never know.
Yup. This despite the fact that Chris has repeatedly said that the money would go into the game, not PR, marketing or the like.
Does that include offices to work in, seats to sit on, computers to work on, internet connections to communicate with, software to design with, lighting to see by, doors to maintain privacy, kitchens to cook food in, security to protect staff and equipment, insurance to cover accidents....
For someone with so many years in the business you sure don't seem to understand what is takes to make that game.
Ignorant, stupid or malicious I don't care but please shut up.
...said the guy comparing a MURAL ON THE WALL to items needed in an office space. Go figure.
Every successful company I have worked for had such things.
Guess if you have never been part of a successful company you would never know.
Go figure.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
Yup. This despite the fact that Chris has repeatedly said that the money would go into the game, not PR, marketing or the like.
Does that include offices to work in, seats to sit on, computers to work on, internet connections to communicate with, software to design with, lighting to see by, doors to maintain privacy, kitchens to cook food in, security to protect staff and equipment, insurance to cover accidents....
For someone with so many years in the business you sure don't seem to understand what is takes to make that game.
Ignorant, stupid or malicious I don't care but please shut up.
...said the guy comparing a MURAL ON THE WALL to items needed in an office space. Go figure.
Every successful company I have worked for had such things.
Guess if you have never been part of a successful company you would never know.
Go figure.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
should a company that is trying to be successful not emulate successful companies?
'dear company we investors hope that you do not use any successful gaming company as a model approach to making a good product'...really?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
To give you an example from another area: 90 % of biotechnology startups have yet to produce a real working product. They still get by with research grants and venture capital money. The computer industry - especially the drone, AR and VR segment - is similar.
All these companies are "real" companies.
Not every one of these companies will become the next Flickr or Genentech and be bought for obscene amounts of money by a mega-corp. But that does not stop them from trying. Do you call all those tenthousands of companies and the people that talk about them delusional too ?
Without stuff like this companies don't sell anything and close. There are - I suggest - no companies that would not consider stuff like this valid expenses.
You are absolutely right. However, I find it disingenuous (to put it mildly) to strongly imply that 100 pennies on the crowdfunded dollar are going toward game development, when in fact it's 30 pennies toward marketing and advertisements, et cetera.
That's why I assume that people who actually understand the way large businesses operate must cringe at some of Chris' comments from time to time. This is more a comment toward the nature of CIG's PR than anything else.
I have no monetary skin in this race, so with that I shall bow out of these subforums for a while and let fans and critics alike come to terms with matters appearing as they may.
/bows
I agree, but I don't think it's disingenuous. There are plenty of costs which are criticized by people who simply don't understand the cost of doing business. It's like saying that "Well he bought computers, so that's not 100% of the money going towards the development of the game." or "Well he rents offices, so that's not really 100% funding towards the game."
Someone with more knowledge than me could probably confirm better, but from what videos I've seen, the CIG offices are relatively minimalistic. I mean there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.
Also, as far as advertising, etc. goes, it's commonly accepted that marketing and advertising are costs of doing business. In order to be successful, you must raise funds, so these are all accepted costs and, indirectly, impact the ability to develop the game. Without the marketing and advertising, it's entirely possible that SC would have ended up being a much different project, with a much lower budget.
As far as the picture is concerned, I find it hilarious that we're really going to whine and complain over a print that they probably got done for a couple hundred bucks at Wal-Mart. Mass effect? The guy that did it is quite obviously happy with his work, as quoted in the print. He's excited. These types of employees are more productive. So the mass effect is that this guy is super happy and, likely, the other contributors are also. So for a couple hundred bucks you've increased productivity significantly across a number of employees. If people can't see that then they've obviously never worked in management. I give my high performers plenty of pet projects on an annual basis. It helps with innovation, increases job satisfaction, let's them flex their creativity, and inspires others around them. If you think I'm spouting bullshit, look up any management blog anywhere in the world to find subjects about high performers.
LOL I really can't believe you said all that and compare Roberts to real companies with real products.
I do like how you used Walmart really shows how far you guys will stretch reality!
Lol, well it shows how well you read since there is no Wal-Mart comparison at all, we're talking about the print you quoted. Well if that doesn't prove that you just pick words out of posts at random I don't know what will.
Pretty tough to be objective when you don't read anything.
Whenever you come up with a rebuttal that's relevant just give me a ringy-dingy. Fact is that you're just stretching so you don't have to admit that I'm right.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
Well I worked for a company that designed and built prototypes for a product for roughly 18 months before they had a 'product' to sell.
I can assure you I was working for a 'real' company for all that time.
You don't start with the final product and spend time working out how you built it.
But I would rather be labeled delusional for thinking that a business that has raised over 110 million for development is actually a business than labelled ignorant when it comes to designing and creating a product thinking that until the produce is sold you are not a business.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
To give you an example from another area: 90 % of biotechnology startups have yet to produce a real working product. They still get by with research grants and venture capital money. The computer industry - especially the drone, AR and VR segment - is similar.
All these companies are "real" companies.
Not every one of these companies will become the next Flickr or Genentech and be bought for obscene amounts of money by a mega-corp. But that does not stop them from trying. Do you call all those tenthousands of companies and the people that talk about them delusional too ?
Have fun
The biotech startup wouldn't go out and spend money printing off a giant mural or making the lobby look pretty though. They would focus on delivering a product and IF they got something approved and out the door then they would spend some of the profits to make the office/lobby look nicer.
The biotech startup wouldn't go out and spend money printing off a giant mural or making the lobby look pretty though. They would focus on delivering a product and IF they got something approved and out the door then they would spend some of the profits to make the office/lobby look nicer.
You have no idea ;-)
If you only live from VC money, you aim to impress. And it works.
You compete against 10000 other companies .. and your garage office does not cut it anymore.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
To give you an example from another area: 90 % of biotechnology startups have yet to produce a real working product. They still get by with research grants and venture capital money. The computer industry - especially the drone, AR and VR segment - is similar.
All these companies are "real" companies.
Not every one of these companies will become the next Flickr or Genentech and be bought for obscene amounts of money by a mega-corp. But that does not stop them from trying. Do you call all those tenthousands of companies and the people that talk about them delusional too ?
Have fun
The biotech startup wouldn't go out and spend money printing off a giant mural or making the lobby look pretty though. They would focus on delivering a product and IF they got something approved and out the door then they would spend some of the profits to make the office/lobby look nicer.
ummmm yes i think they would
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The biotech startup wouldn't go out and spend money printing off a giant mural or making the lobby look pretty though. They would focus on delivering a product and IF they got something approved and out the door then they would spend some of the profits to make the office/lobby look nicer.
You have no idea ;-)
If you only live from VC money, you aim to impress. And it works.
Have fun
You've never actually been in a biotech startup have you? The lobbies generally have a waiting room and maybe a plant. The rest of the money is spent on trying to make a product. VC looking to invest in a biotech startup aren't going to be impressed by how nice your lobby or office looks, they are going to be impressed if you have results to show them or you have a damn good pitch.
Feel free to spend thousands to tens of thousands of dollars on that lobby though and fail to show any results or even ideas, I'm sure the VC's wont see that as a waste of money.
So you call CIG a real company that has yet to produce a real working product. Talk about delusional!
To give you an example from another area: 90 % of biotechnology startups have yet to produce a real working product. They still get by with research grants and venture capital money. The computer industry - especially the drone, AR and VR segment - is similar.
All these companies are "real" companies.
Not every one of these companies will become the next Flickr or Genentech and be bought for obscene amounts of money by a mega-corp. But that does not stop them from trying. Do you call all those tenthousands of companies and the people that talk about them delusional too ?
Have fun
The biotech startup wouldn't go out and spend money printing off a giant mural or making the lobby look pretty though. They would focus on delivering a product and IF they got something approved and out the door then they would spend some of the profits to make the office/lobby look nicer.
Comments
you buy stuff like this out of PROFIT.
Quoted post is what OP and others are saying. It's as simple as that. Buying a $50 canvas and having a talented studio personnel paint something on it would work just as good.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
here is the thing however, when it comes to marketing some over do it, some under do it, some do it just right, some dont need to, some really do.
Crowd Deciding exactly what the % should be is crowd MICROMANAGEMENT and it will not work. You cant crowd micromanage a project PEROID. You either like how they do it or you move the F on.
oh and by the way...if ubisoft markets out the goddamn wazo why cant CR?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Curious because if it is common knowledge others would be posting it and some would not be asking for the right to investigate their books.
So your post is purely an OPINION based on limited information.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
and implied here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/the-pledge
and here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14184-Letter-From-The-Chairman
and here:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14839-Letter-From-The-Chairman
even quoted here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/chris-roberts-speaks-out-on-star-citizen-complaints/
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
I agree, but I don't think it's disingenuous. There are plenty of costs which are criticized by people who simply don't understand the cost of doing business. It's like saying that "Well he bought computers, so that's not 100% of the money going towards the development of the game." or "Well he rents offices, so that's not really 100% funding towards the game."
Someone with more knowledge than me could probably confirm better, but from what videos I've seen, the CIG offices are relatively minimalistic. I mean there doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.
Also, as far as advertising, etc. goes, it's commonly accepted that marketing and advertising are costs of doing business. In order to be successful, you must raise funds, so these are all accepted costs and, indirectly, impact the ability to develop the game. Without the marketing and advertising, it's entirely possible that SC would have ended up being a much different project, with a much lower budget.
As far as the picture is concerned, I find it hilarious that we're really going to whine and complain over a print that they probably got done for a couple hundred bucks at Wal-Mart. Mass effect? The guy that did it is quite obviously happy with his work, as quoted in the print. He's excited. These types of employees are more productive. So the mass effect is that this guy is super happy and, likely, the other contributors are also. So for a couple hundred bucks you've increased productivity significantly across a number of employees. If people can't see that then they've obviously never worked in management. I give my high performers plenty of pet projects on an annual basis. It helps with innovation, increases job satisfaction, let's them flex their creativity, and inspires others around them. If you think I'm spouting bullshit, look up any management blog anywhere in the world to find subjects about high performers.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I do like how you used Walmart really shows how far you guys will stretch reality!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Guess if you have never been part of a successful company you would never know.
Go figure.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
'dear company we investors hope that you do not use any successful gaming company as a model approach to making a good product'...really?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All these companies are "real" companies.
Not every one of these companies will become the next Flickr or Genentech and be bought for obscene amounts of money by a mega-corp. But that does not stop them from trying. Do you call all those tenthousands of companies and the people that talk about them delusional too ?
Have fun
Lol, well it shows how well you read since there is no Wal-Mart comparison at all, we're talking about the print you quoted. Well if that doesn't prove that you just pick words out of posts at random I don't know what will.
Pretty tough to be objective when you don't read anything.
Whenever you come up with a rebuttal that's relevant just give me a ringy-dingy. Fact is that you're just stretching so you don't have to admit that I'm right.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I can assure you I was working for a 'real' company for all that time.
You don't start with the final product and spend time working out how you built it.
But I would rather be labeled delusional for thinking that a business that has raised over 110 million for development is actually a business than labelled ignorant when it comes to designing and creating a product thinking that until the produce is sold you are not a business.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
If you only live from VC money, you aim to impress. And it works.
You compete against 10000 other companies .. and your garage office does not cut it anymore.
Have fun
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Having pictures/murals/decorations on walls is NORMAL for almost any working environment.
here
http://www.officelovin.com/2014/10/22/best-startup-office-receptions/
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You've never actually been in a biotech startup have you? The lobbies generally have a waiting room and maybe a plant. The rest of the money is spent on trying to make a product. VC looking to invest in a biotech startup aren't going to be impressed by how nice your lobby or office looks, they are going to be impressed if you have results to show them or you have a damn good pitch.
Feel free to spend thousands to tens of thousands of dollars on that lobby though and fail to show any results or even ideas, I'm sure the VC's wont see that as a waste of money.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson