In reply to deserttfoxx, we are told that you can reach the respective capitals within 10 hours of gameplay, surely going that amount of time without a tank isnt going to harm the game significantly.
I'd be more worried if I got to end game boss encounters and couldnt find a tank readily available, from playing wow since eu-launch tanks are less played than healers especially since tbc and that game has 3 tank classes.
On a brighter note mythic did state that the game is balanced around rvr and they can always retune pve mobs difficulty accordingly.
I daresay we'll see a fair few patches going in after launch in any case. Whatever they do it won't please everybody.
well looking at the races without tanks - Empire and Dark Elves, these are the two races that have support classes which can stand on the front line and fight. - Warrior Priest - Disciple of Khaine
So to my mind that suggests these races will have more people playing these classes, so they will have more support for their groups.
Maybe a whole new play dynamic will emerge. Only time will tell.
Certainly warrior priest is one of the classes I want to play, so I will experience life as a tankless race.
Most of the other classes I want to play are high elves, so I will get to experience the game fighting a race without tanks.
As to which class I start with - no idea yet.
In terms of PvE - does that mean as High Elves we would fight NPC's without tanks?
In reply to deserttfoxx, we are told that you can reach the respective capitals within 10 hours of gameplay, surely going that amount of time without a tank isnt going to harm the game significantly. I'd be more worried if I got to end game boss encounters and couldnt find a tank readily available, from playing wow since eu-launch tanks are less played than healers especially since tbc and that game has 3 tank classes. On a brighter note mythic did state that the game is balanced around rvr and they can always retune pve mobs difficulty accordingly. I daresay we'll see a fair few patches going in after launch in any case. Whatever they do it won't please everybody.
I cant reply to most of this without breaking the NDA.
It wasnt that tanks were less played in WoW more so that warriors didnt know when they should tank and when they should dps. And warriors could do both fairly well without speccing for tanking. as a 2 year warrior veteran of WoW i can tell you that. I always hated playing my alts with another tank, because i felt most tanks in WoW were incompetent...
Now i expect a few patchs after launchs, but from what it sounds like, they will be launching the game, then having bunch of content patchs to add in the missing classes and the cities, which makes it sound like they want to rush the launch and not that it is being taking out for the fun factor of the game and the benifit of the community.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
The other four cities will be in game via patches later on. Until then there will be plenty of stuff to do, I´m pretty sure of!
There have been many MMO´s trying to catch up with WoW but failed more or less. Mythic is just cutting things from the game now just to make sure that the game that´ll hit the disks at launch is not an average game, it´s better.
This will be a WoW challenger! And those out there who are not hardcorefans or somewhat and haven´t been following the game during it´s development will only say when they´re playing the game: "Cool, did you look at those screenies of the new great cities in the upcoming patch?, more epic war:)"
well looking at the races without tanks - Empire and Dark Elves, these are the two races that have support classes which can stand on the front line and fight.
- Warrior Priest
- Disciple of Khaine So to my mind that suggests these races will have more people playing these classes, so they will have more support for their groups. Maybe a whole new play dynamic will emerge. Only time will tell. Certainly warrior priest is one of the classes I want to play, so I will experience life as a tankless race. Most of the other classes I want to play are high elves, so I will get to experience the game fighting a race without tanks. As to which class I start with - no idea yet. In terms of PvE - does that mean as High Elves we would fight NPC's without tanks?
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game.
Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
In reply to deserttfoxx, we are told that you can reach the respective capitals within 10 hours of gameplay, surely going that amount of time without a tank isnt going to harm the game significantly. I'd be more worried if I got to end game boss encounters and couldnt find a tank readily available, from playing wow since eu-launch tanks are less played than healers especially since tbc and that game has 3 tank classes. On a brighter note mythic did state that the game is balanced around rvr and they can always retune pve mobs difficulty accordingly. I daresay we'll see a fair few patches going in after launch in any case. Whatever they do it won't please everybody.
I cant reply to most of this without breaking the NDA.
It wasnt that tanks were less played in WoW more so that warriors didnt know when they should tank and when they should dps. And warriors could do both fairly well without speccing for tanking. as a 2 year warrior veteran of WoW i can tell you that. I always hated playing my alts with another tank, because i felt most tanks in WoW were incompetent...
Now i expect a few patchs after launchs, but from what it sounds like, they will be launching the game, then having bunch of content patchs to add in the missing classes and the cities, which makes it sound like they want to rush the launch and not that it is being taking out for the fun factor of the game and the benifit of the community.
This is like deja vu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx Originally posted by _Shadowmage well looking at the races without tanks - Empire and Dark Elves, these are the two races that have support classes which can stand on the front line and fight. - Warrior Priest - Disciple of Khaine So to my mind that suggests these races will have more people playing these classes, so they will have more support for their groups. Maybe a whole new play dynamic will emerge. Only time will tell. Certainly warrior priest is one of the classes I want to play, so I will experience life as a tankless race. Most of the other classes I want to play are high elves, so I will get to experience the game fighting a race without tanks. As to which class I start with - no idea yet. In terms of PvE - does that mean as High Elves we would fight NPC's without tanks?
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game. Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
I have never played WOW so I dont understand your answer
However from reading about these two classes and their mechanics my understanding is that they need to get up close and personal in the fighting in order to generate the whatever that powers their abilities/healing.
Whereas a class like the Goblin Shaman / Archmage stands at the back casting.
So whilst they cant absorb as much damage as a tank, or output as much damage as a DPS, they can absorb more / do more up close than a shaman/archmage going toe to toe with a melee class.
well looking at the races without tanks - Empire and Dark Elves, these are the two races that have support classes which can stand on the front line and fight.
- Warrior Priest
- Disciple of Khaine
So to my mind that suggests these races will have more people playing these classes, so they will have more support for their groups.
Maybe a whole new play dynamic will emerge. Only time will tell.
Certainly warrior priest is one of the classes I want to play, so I will experience life as a tankless race.
Most of the other classes I want to play are high elves, so I will get to experience the game fighting a race without tanks.
As to which class I start with - no idea yet.
In terms of PvE - does that mean as High Elves we would fight NPC's without tanks?
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game.
Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
I have never played WOW so I dont understand your answer
However from reading about these two classes and their mechanics my understanding is that they need to get up close and personal in the fighting in order to generate the whatever that powers their abilities/healing.
Whereas a class like the Goblin Shaman / Archmage stands at the back casting.
So whilst they cant absorb as much damage as a tank, or output as much damage as a DPS, they can absorb more / do more up close than a shaman/archmage going toe to toe with a melee class.
Well a paladin is basically a healer/Warrior who can heal and tank, while a shadowknight is the same but heals through life stealing and stuff like that.
While they can tank more then the dps, i dont see them tanking bosses in place of a tank.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
As another person in beta i too have to agree that the game would be better off being delayed another 3 or 4 months then cutting Key classes.
A lot of people are saying lore but i dont care much about lore, i dont know much about the lore so i can only go on what i know. I cant support my arguement well without breaking NDA but i will say, there is no way the races will be balanced at launch, the races who are missing tanks especially. And the reason i say this is, a tank is an unreplaceable class. Missing a melee dps is lame but you can augment it, just stack another range dps, but missing a tank is still missing a tank. You can kill a strong boss mob just heaping glass cannons on it. They will get killed over and over again and in the end they havea very slim chance of succeeding.
Picture WoW when it first came out, the distance between all the races and their starting locations. Now, add dungeons, and raid encounters into the mix, now imagine that only the Humans, the Orcs, the Tauren, and the dwarves had Tanks, healers Dps, while the otehr 4 races were all DPS and Healers. and it was at least 30 levels before the crossed paths. that means Your doing deadmines, no tank, razorfen krual, no tank, gnomerergan(imo one of the hardest dungeons in its level range) no tank, shadowfang keep, no tank..
Now what do you think will most likely happen, keep in mind this is for launch, so people dont know how to get from one side of teh world to the other. People are playing their main classes so the interest in trying the new races and exploring the game from another point of view is not a priority. Will people A) Make a tank on a race that has them and then spend 3 or 4 hours running from their starting zone to the other 3 starting zones just to provide tanks for the weaker races or try playing with what they have, realize it isnt worth the effort and simply re roll to a race that is whole and complete so they can group properly.
You dont even have to think of this in Warhammer frame of mind, take any game you have played that has multiple races a vast amount of starting locations and a huge amount of distance between the starting locations and just picture what it would be like if you were missing a tank, or a healer and needed to do party oriented objectives. There needs to be a place to discuss this in detail without fear of breaking the NDA, you cant do it here because the people here do not know enough about it to add a valid opinion, most of what is posted outside of the beta forum is just bias to get the game out quicker, and cant talk about it on the beta forums...
So we have to sit here and let this shit fester and hope that warhammer doesnt turn into another age of conan, vanguard, or dark and light. As someone who has paid in full for the collectors edition of warhammer before they even had a viable website, i seriously feel like i am beig cheated a bit here. I understand fully why they reduced the cities for now, so there can be more focused fights and people can have a richer experience, so guilds didnt just leap frog and siege empty cities or weaker cities. I dont however, understand the loss of the classes, and saying its for the good of the game is not accecptable.at this poiint i really would like to see technical data, i want to see charts and graphs and serious discussion from the devs with the community, saying this is each of the classes, this is where we want them to be, this is where they are currently, and this is how long we think it will take us to take them to their intended place. I dont know what i will do with my preorder yet, i am doing my part in the beta test, providing as much feedback and bug reports as i can, and i take part in all the focus tests, but as it stands now, i have no idea if i will go through with my purchase of the game. I need to wait until launch is closer and see where the game is. I am not like those people who buy a beta test and pay monthly until the game is up to par, if the game is not where i think it should be come launch im not playing it. Fuck vanguard and fuck age of conan for trying to make that shit trendy.
These mmo companies need to follow the lead of Everquest 2, world of warcraft, lineage 2,final fantasy 11 and city of heroes. Launch a finished game and then improve it, none of this launch a playable client and then bring it up to gold standards, so 6 months after launch you can finally say its finished. You know what games do that... f2p games that have 8 months open beta periods with item mall in place.
That is just the PVE consequences. The PVP consequences may be more severe becuase tanks in a PVP enviroment are either hit or miss. Either they are vital or non essential in group PVP. I can not imagine tanks being left out in the cold in the PVP of WAR but the game seems range focused at the moment with the recent changes.
I am not in beta so I do not know but that is what I see looking from the outside in and can only wait for information to come out.
Ok I understand that WAR is going to receive a ton of angry remarks especially with the new content cut. However, I am kinda sick and tired of all of the WOW comparisons...
yes WOW is credited with the mass popularity MMO's now enjoy... However, that doesn't mean it will live on forever as the supreme ruler of all MMO's... quite honestly I think it's the complete opposite one day down the road some MMO will achieve things that WOW hasn't and will become the new standard. Also keep in mind that this is still in BETA.. yes it will be released "soon" but keep that in mind when you look at the pictures and videos,I would love to see some of Blizzards beta pics and videos.. wondering how they would look in comparison (seriously i would) I am no fanboi in fact depending on how things are going before launch I might not even buy it. But it deeply disappoints me to see everyone holding WOW up on a golden throne..
I've played WOW yes it was fun and enjoyable but I wouldn't go so far as to say that there isn't some serious competition.. and that is how things will continue to improve through competition. With WOW as the "standard" people will continue to work to come up with something better, now that also means that all of you WOW fanboi's need to realize that competition is also how you will get WOW 2, years down the road.. with out
competition there would be no WOW or expansions... so the next time you decide to sit down in your chair and drool over WOW content keep in mind that it's the other games that are making your game better.. also please allow others to enjoy their games as much as you enjoy yours.. its old and tiresome to see people fighting over who's game is better it's completely subjective.
Put it this way, who would you make your standard bearers in a guild assault on a keep? Or who is going to be a flag runner in a capture the flag based scenario? You don't really need to break any nda to answer these questions. Heavy tanks are gonna be as vital in some rvr encounters as in pve enterprises, lets hope we get some new ones shortly after the game launches.
My comments werent focused on pve or pvp for a reason, Because RVR includes mobs as well.
I explained why i made the WoW references if that WoW comparision tangent was directed at me.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
oh if your talking about me and the WOW stuff no they were not pointed at you... actually the opposite I think you have used WOW as it should be a universal starting point, I get tired of the people who think WOW will be this infallible machine that will outlast any MMO..
lol that's if you were talking to me if not I just went off on a tangent
As another person in beta i too have to agree that the game would be better off being delayed another 3 or 4 months then cutting Key classes.
A lot of people are saying lore but i dont care much about lore, i dont know much about the lore so i can only go on what i know. I cant support my arguement well without breaking NDA but i will say, there is no way the races will be balanced at launch, the races who are missing tanks especially. And the reason i say this is, a tank is an unreplaceable class. Missing a melee dps is lame but you can augment it, just stack another range dps, but missing a tank is still missing a tank. You can kill a strong boss mob just heaping glass cannons on it. They will get killed over and over again and in the end they havea very slim chance of succeeding.
Picture WoW when it first came out, the distance between all the races and their starting locations. Now, add dungeons, and raid encounters into the mix, now imagine that only the Humans, the Orcs, the Tauren, and the dwarves had Tanks, healers Dps, while the otehr 4 races were all DPS and Healers. and it was at least 30 levels before the crossed paths. that means Your doing deadmines, no tank, razorfen krual, no tank, gnomerergan(imo one of the hardest dungeons in its level range) no tank, shadowfang keep, no tank..
Now what do you think will most likely happen, keep in mind this is for launch, so people dont know how to get from one side of teh world to the other. People are playing their main classes so the interest in trying the new races and exploring the game from another point of view is not a priority. Will people A) Make a tank on a race that has them and then spend 3 or 4 hours running from their starting zone to the other 3 starting zones just to provide tanks for the weaker races or try playing with what they have, realize it isnt worth the effort and simply re roll to a race that is whole and complete so they can group properly.
You dont even have to think of this in Warhammer frame of mind, take any game you have played that has multiple races a vast amount of starting locations and a huge amount of distance between the starting locations and just picture what it would be like if you were missing a tank, or a healer and needed to do party oriented objectives. There needs to be a place to discuss this in detail without fear of breaking the NDA, you cant do it here because the people here do not know enough about it to add a valid opinion, most of what is posted outside of the beta forum is just bias to get the game out quicker, and cant talk about it on the beta forums...
So we have to sit here and let this shit fester and hope that warhammer doesnt turn into another age of conan, vanguard, or dark and light. As someone who has paid in full for the collectors edition of warhammer before they even had a viable website, i seriously feel like i am beig cheated a bit here. I understand fully why they reduced the cities for now, so there can be more focused fights and people can have a richer experience, so guilds didnt just leap frog and siege empty cities or weaker cities. I dont however, understand the loss of the classes, and saying its for the good of the game is not accecptable.at this poiint i really would like to see technical data, i want to see charts and graphs and serious discussion from the devs with the community, saying this is each of the classes, this is where we want them to be, this is where they are currently, and this is how long we think it will take us to take them to their intended place. I dont know what i will do with my preorder yet, i am doing my part in the beta test, providing as much feedback and bug reports as i can, and i take part in all the focus tests, but as it stands now, i have no idea if i will go through with my purchase of the game. I need to wait until launch is closer and see where the game is. I am not like those people who buy a beta test and pay monthly until the game is up to par, if the game is not where i think it should be come launch im not playing it. Fuck vanguard and fuck age of conan for trying to make that shit trendy.
These mmo companies need to follow the lead of Everquest 2, world of warcraft, lineage 2,final fantasy 11 and city of heroes. Launch a finished game and then improve it, none of this launch a playable client and then bring it up to gold standards, so 6 months after launch you can finally say its finished. You know what games do that... f2p games that have 8 months open beta periods with item mall in place.
Interesting...I think if they really busted their asses they could get the tanks in before launch. That's the only real concern I have with the game at this moment. leveling would be tough, but once you get to endgame it would be a hell of a lot easier since everyone is helping everyone out. Didn't they say something about it not taking a huge amount of time to get from one starting area to another? IDK, but I'm guessing they will give WPs and DoK's SOME tanking abilities so they can atleast get through leveling without too much hassel.
This is my speculation of course...I'm not in closed beta so I'm not sure. I have my open beta pass though and I can get a little glimpse of what's going on when it comes out.
Like i said, i cant say to much without breaking the NDA, I am hoping the wow example would provide more clairty on the subject since people know WoW. And its more, not the fact that you can easily travel between noobs zones but more so, whats the points. If the loot is based on your class, that means you can get the same drops in your zone for less effort then it would to take to run to another zone.
All i can see happening at launch is, certain zones just being empty, because players just making their toon then immediatly running to a zone that has all the classes availble for a rounded party. I mean warhammer has so much emphasis on grouping at all levels the ieda of losing tanks just doesnt seem like a good idea to me. I need a lot of convicing that says otherwise. And im still waiitng for the interviews that will do so.
Where is Paul Barnett to offer one of those energetic interviews that put your mind at ease and allow you to believe you made the right choice in chosing this game. I need someoen to explain in detail why it is a good idea to lose 4 classes.
And people need to stop saying this is a dead horse... this major announcement was made liek 4 days ago, it hasnt even been properly discussed to be dead, Not only is the horse not dead, its galavanting around the track chasing the mechanical bunny still.
Paul makes everything sound more awesome. Maybe that's what they'll do for their next podcast.
Paul has got to be one of the best salesmen I have ever seen.
I hope he is more than a funny salesman, because his position in Mythic asks for much more.
Warhammer or Failhammer? I think it's called Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning...but Failhammer is not a game is it? Wasn't there a game called Failhammer?... hmm I think it was a RTS game...not Warhammer 40K...no something that had a twist to it...hmm...nope I dont think there is a game called Failhammer...oh well maybe you just misspelled.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Warhammer or Failhammer? I think it's called Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning...but Failhammer is not a game is it? Wasn't there a game called Failhammer?... hmm I think it was a RTS game...not Warhammer 40K...no something that had a twist to it...hmm...nope I dont think there is a game called Failhammer...oh well maybe you just misspelled.
AoC kicked people in the balls without asking them for permission. But since WAR is being honest about asking you if it can kick you in the balls this is okay?
Talk about twisting the situation.
THE VERY REASON we regard Funcom as having kicked people in the balls is because they did not inform us what was going to be missing at launch.. until.. well .. launch.
If Funcom had told everyone a month prior that there would be this and that missing - we would not be able to accuse them of kicking peoples balls.. because the consumers would know what they were getting.
Its funny how people act as though A) The game is not longer in Beta and That they can't cancel their order and or get their money back for a pre-order. Thats what make AOC a kick in the balls vs what WAR did. They at least are giving you the time to think about wether you want to continue to pay for the game or not vs making it a nice suprise on the first day you play.
Sigh all these people whining about the class drop, the dev said that they dropped them because they were not finished and werent up tot he same standard as the other classes. Its actually a GOOD thing... it show sthey care about the standard of the game and dont want to add content for the hell of it.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
Ok I understand that WAR is going to receive a ton of angry remarks especially with the new content cut. However, I am kinda sick and tired of all of the WOW comparisons... yes WOW is credited with the mass popularity MMO's now enjoy... However, that doesn't mean it will live on forever as the supreme ruler of all MMO's... quite honestly I think it's the complete opposite one day down the road some MMO will achieve things that WOW hasn't and will become the new standard. Also keep in mind that this is still in BETA.. yes it will be released "soon" but keep that in mind when you look at the pictures and videos,I would love to see some of Blizzards beta pics and videos.. wondering how they would look in comparison (seriously i would) I am no fanboi in fact depending on how things are going before launch I might not even buy it. But it deeply disappoints me to see everyone holding WOW up on a golden throne.. I've played WOW yes it was fun and enjoyable but I wouldn't go so far as to say that there isn't some serious competition.. and that is how things will continue to improve through competition. With WOW as the "standard" people will continue to work to come up with something better, now that also means that all of you WOW fanboi's need to realize that competition is also how you will get WOW 2, years down the road..
with out competition there would be no WOW or expansions... so the next time you decide to sit down in your chair and drool over WOW content keep in mind that it's the other games that are making your game better.. also please allow others to enjoy their games as much as you enjoy yours.. its old and tiresome to see people fighting over who's game is better it's completely subjective.
And that's what it is all about, the evolution.
I think people are comparing games to WoW because that's a game most people know, and why shouldn't they?
WoW was what most games are aspiring to be, a huge success, groundbreaker if you will (Which i very much hope Warhammer Online will be too) you see, when people mention WoW it should not be taken as an insult even though the game is perceived as the worst mmo in history (gameplay wise). A few pages back someone was going all "Your arguments are null and void because you mentioned WoW" and that's just totally wrong.
Even though i mentioned WoW in this post i still want the game to succeed just as much as you do.
I accept the fact that my favorite class, the Choppa, had to be cut so the game could do better as a whole, i am thrilled about public quests, i can'y wait to explore and find some christmas quests, but most of all, i can't wait to rampage through the scenery as an orc, that my choices have been limited to black orc i'm still trying to deal with, but i'd much rather deal with it now than at the login page where i might have been so disappointed that i'd cancelled.
I have been a massive Warcraft fanboy in the past and still is to some extent, i were in the closed beta of WoW, i've watched my favorite class Warlock fall and rise anew in the buff and nerf war, but it has gotten old for me and even though i still like WoW i have moved on.
All this i tell you just so you know what kind off mmo-player you have before you: A former WoW-player.
All right i guess i'm rambling, all in all i say i'm very much excited for Warhammer Online cause by the sound of it i think we're dealing with a game that takes itself seriously and tries to be the best it can be.
I think people are comparing games to WoW because that's a game most people know, and why shouldn't they?
WoW was what most games are aspiring to be, a huge success, groundbreaker if you will (Which i very much hope Warhammer Online will be too) you see, when people mention WoW it should not be taken as an insult even though the game is perceived as the worst mmo in history (gameplay wise). A few pages back someone was going all "Your arguments are null and void because you mentioned WoW" and that's just totally wrong.
Even though i mentioned WoW in this post i still want the game to succeed just as much as you do.
I accept the fact that my favorite class, the Choppa, had to be cut so the game could do better as a whole, i am thrilled about public quests, i can'y wait to explore and find some christmas quests, but most of all, i can't wait to rampage through the scenery as an orc, that my choices have been limited to black orc i'm still trying to deal with, but i'd much rather deal with it now than at the login page where i might have been so disappointed that i'd cancelled.
I have been a massive Warcraft fanboy in the past and still is to some extent, i were in the closed beta of WoW, i've watched my favorite class Warlock fall and rise anew in the buff and nerf war, but it has gotten old for me and even though i still like WoW i have moved on.
All this i tell you just so you know what kind off mmo-player you have before you: A former WoW-player.
All right i guess i'm rambling, all in all i say i'm very much excited for Warhammer Online cause by the sound of it i think we're dealing with a game that takes itself seriously and tries to be the best it can be.
See you in WAR, Waaaagh!
Hate to break it to you but warhammer is not really an evolution or even an advancement in MMO games. Its just another partially finished game that is being released so as not to compete with the monster on the block. From a business standpoint there its good practice. From a consumer standpoint its bad for us.
AoC did the exact same thing, they went after the short term money, had a window that they could fit into and not have compition for a half baked game.
The content removal quite simply is EA's decision to not compete with the wow expansion, and try to suck up some sales. They really need another 4-6 months in development time, as the game needs alot of work at this point. Sadly it does not appear that WAR is going to get that badly needed time and monatary investment, which will create huge issues for the game 4-5 months after release.
The pattern has been repeated for most MMO's since WoW, and honestly most mmos are following the access to everyone design, which requires alot of content to prolong the games life for many. There has yet to be one MMO release that really did what i would consider good, and probalby LOTRO was the best of the bunch,and look at the issues it has.
Whats really amusing is we gamers fall for it everytime, we all rush to defend these types of actions, then after the game releases, and we spend our hard earned money, everyone starts complaining about everythihng that isnt complete. Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Hate to break it to you but warhammer is not really an evolution or even an advancement in MMO games. Its just another partially finished game that is being released so as not to compete with the monster on the block. From a business standpoint there its good practice. From a consumer standpoint its bad for us. AoC did the exact same thing, they went after the short term money, had a window that they could fit into and not have compition for a half baked game. The content removal quite simply is EA's decision to not compete with the wow expansion, and try to suck up some sales. They really need another 4-6 months in development time, as the game needs alot of work at this point. Sadly it does not appear that WAR is going to get that badly needed time and monatary investment, which will create huge issues for the game 4-5 months after release. The pattern has been repeated for most MMO's since WoW, and honestly most mmos are following the access to everyone design, which requires alot of content to prolong the games life for many. There has yet to be one MMO release that really did what i would consider good, and probalby LOTRO was the best of the bunch,and look at the issues it has. Whats really amusing is we gamers fall for it everytime, we all rush to defend these types of actions, then after the game releases, and we spend our hard earned money, everyone starts complaining about everythihng that isnt complete. Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Hate to break it to you but you weren't around for WoWs launch so shut the hell up and stop acting like you know how to make a game because you play WoW. Jackass.
Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.
Comments
In reply to deserttfoxx, we are told that you can reach the respective capitals within 10 hours of gameplay, surely going that amount of time without a tank isnt going to harm the game significantly.
I'd be more worried if I got to end game boss encounters and couldnt find a tank readily available, from playing wow since eu-launch tanks are less played than healers especially since tbc and that game has 3 tank classes.
On a brighter note mythic did state that the game is balanced around rvr and they can always retune pve mobs difficulty accordingly.
I daresay we'll see a fair few patches going in after launch in any case. Whatever they do it won't please everybody.
well looking at the races without tanks - Empire and Dark Elves, these are the two races that have support classes which can stand on the front line and fight.
- Warrior Priest
- Disciple of Khaine
So to my mind that suggests these races will have more people playing these classes, so they will have more support for their groups.
Maybe a whole new play dynamic will emerge. Only time will tell.
Certainly warrior priest is one of the classes I want to play, so I will experience life as a tankless race.
Most of the other classes I want to play are high elves, so I will get to experience the game fighting a race without tanks.
As to which class I start with - no idea yet.
In terms of PvE - does that mean as High Elves we would fight NPC's without tanks?
I cant reply to most of this without breaking the NDA.
It wasnt that tanks were less played in WoW more so that warriors didnt know when they should tank and when they should dps. And warriors could do both fairly well without speccing for tanking. as a 2 year warrior veteran of WoW i can tell you that. I always hated playing my alts with another tank, because i felt most tanks in WoW were incompetent...
Now i expect a few patchs after launchs, but from what it sounds like, they will be launching the game, then having bunch of content patchs to add in the missing classes and the cities, which makes it sound like they want to rush the launch and not that it is being taking out for the fun factor of the game and the benifit of the community.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
The other four cities will be in game via patches later on. Until then there will be plenty of stuff to do, I´m pretty sure of!
There have been many MMO´s trying to catch up with WoW but failed more or less. Mythic is just cutting things from the game now just to make sure that the game that´ll hit the disks at launch is not an average game, it´s better.
This will be a WoW challenger! And those out there who are not hardcorefans or somewhat and haven´t been following the game during it´s development will only say when they´re playing the game: "Cool, did you look at those screenies of the new great cities in the upcoming patch?, more epic war:)"
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game.
Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I cant reply to most of this without breaking the NDA.
It wasnt that tanks were less played in WoW more so that warriors didnt know when they should tank and when they should dps. And warriors could do both fairly well without speccing for tanking. as a 2 year warrior veteran of WoW i can tell you that. I always hated playing my alts with another tank, because i felt most tanks in WoW were incompetent...
Now i expect a few patchs after launchs, but from what it sounds like, they will be launching the game, then having bunch of content patchs to add in the missing classes and the cities, which makes it sound like they want to rush the launch and not that it is being taking out for the fun factor of the game and the benifit of the community.
This is like deja vu
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game.
Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
I have never played WOW so I dont understand your answer
However from reading about these two classes and their mechanics my understanding is that they need to get up close and personal in the fighting in order to generate the whatever that powers their abilities/healing.
Whereas a class like the Goblin Shaman / Archmage stands at the back casting.
So whilst they cant absorb as much damage as a tank, or output as much damage as a DPS, they can absorb more / do more up close than a shaman/archmage going toe to toe with a melee class.
I think you believe the warrior priest and the DoK are paladin/shadowknights of sorts, which they arent. They can fight up close, and they are melee/healing. But they arent tanks. That would break the roles of the game.
Healers, dps, range dps, tanks. If a healer could tank and heal and dps it would make them imbalanced.
I have never played WOW so I dont understand your answer
However from reading about these two classes and their mechanics my understanding is that they need to get up close and personal in the fighting in order to generate the whatever that powers their abilities/healing.
Whereas a class like the Goblin Shaman / Archmage stands at the back casting.
So whilst they cant absorb as much damage as a tank, or output as much damage as a DPS, they can absorb more / do more up close than a shaman/archmage going toe to toe with a melee class.
Well a paladin is basically a healer/Warrior who can heal and tank, while a shadowknight is the same but heals through life stealing and stuff like that.
While they can tank more then the dps, i dont see them tanking bosses in place of a tank.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
That is just the PVE consequences. The PVP consequences may be more severe becuase tanks in a PVP enviroment are either hit or miss. Either they are vital or non essential in group PVP. I can not imagine tanks being left out in the cold in the PVP of WAR but the game seems range focused at the moment with the recent changes.
I am not in beta so I do not know but that is what I see looking from the outside in and can only wait for information to come out.
Put it this way, who would you make your standard bearers in a guild assault on a keep?
Or who is going to be a flag runner in a capture the flag based scenario? You don't really need to break any nda to answer these questions.
Heavy tanks are gonna be as vital in some rvr encounters as in pve enterprises, lets hope we get some new ones shortly after the game launches.
Ok I understand that WAR is going to receive a ton of angry remarks especially with the new content cut. However, I am kinda sick and tired of all of the WOW comparisons...
yes WOW is credited with the mass popularity MMO's now enjoy... However, that doesn't mean it will live on forever as the supreme ruler of all MMO's... quite honestly I think it's the complete opposite one day down the road some MMO will achieve things that WOW hasn't and will become the new standard. Also keep in mind that this is still in BETA.. yes it will be released "soon" but keep that in mind when you look at the pictures and videos,I would love to see some of Blizzards beta pics and videos.. wondering how they would look in comparison (seriously i would) I am no fanboi in fact depending on how things are going before launch I might not even buy it. But it deeply disappoints me to see everyone holding WOW up on a golden throne..
I've played WOW yes it was fun and enjoyable but I wouldn't go so far as to say that there isn't some serious competition.. and that is how things will continue to improve through competition. With WOW as the "standard" people will continue to work to come up with something better, now that also means that all of you WOW fanboi's need to realize that competition is also how you will get WOW 2, years down the road.. with out
competition there would be no WOW or expansions... so the next time you decide to sit down in your chair and drool over WOW content keep in mind that it's the other games that are making your game better.. also please allow others to enjoy their games as much as you enjoy yours.. its old and tiresome to see people fighting over who's game is better it's completely subjective.
My comments werent focused on pve or pvp for a reason, Because RVR includes mobs as well.
I explained why i made the WoW references if that WoW comparision tangent was directed at me.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
oh if your talking about me and the WOW stuff no they were not pointed at you... actually the opposite I think you have used WOW as it should be a universal starting point, I get tired of the people who think WOW will be this infallible machine that will outlast any MMO..
lol that's if you were talking to me if not I just went off on a tangent
Interesting...I think if they really busted their asses they could get the tanks in before launch. That's the only real concern I have with the game at this moment. leveling would be tough, but once you get to endgame it would be a hell of a lot easier since everyone is helping everyone out. Didn't they say something about it not taking a huge amount of time to get from one starting area to another? IDK, but I'm guessing they will give WPs and DoK's SOME tanking abilities so they can atleast get through leveling without too much hassel.
This is my speculation of course...I'm not in closed beta so I'm not sure. I have my open beta pass though and I can get a little glimpse of what's going on when it comes out.
Like i said, i cant say to much without breaking the NDA, I am hoping the wow example would provide more clairty on the subject since people know WoW. And its more, not the fact that you can easily travel between noobs zones but more so, whats the points. If the loot is based on your class, that means you can get the same drops in your zone for less effort then it would to take to run to another zone.
All i can see happening at launch is, certain zones just being empty, because players just making their toon then immediatly running to a zone that has all the classes availble for a rounded party. I mean warhammer has so much emphasis on grouping at all levels the ieda of losing tanks just doesnt seem like a good idea to me. I need a lot of convicing that says otherwise. And im still waiitng for the interviews that will do so.
Where is Paul Barnett to offer one of those energetic interviews that put your mind at ease and allow you to believe you made the right choice in chosing this game. I need someoen to explain in detail why it is a good idea to lose 4 classes.
And people need to stop saying this is a dead horse... this major announcement was made liek 4 days ago, it hasnt even been properly discussed to be dead, Not only is the horse not dead, its galavanting around the track chasing the mechanical bunny still.
Paul makes everything sound more awesome. Maybe that's what they'll do for their next podcast.
Paul has got to be one of the best salesmen I have ever seen.
I hope he is more than a funny salesman, because his position in Mythic asks for much more.
Warhammer or Failhammer? I think it's called Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning...but Failhammer is not a game is it? Wasn't there a game called Failhammer?... hmm I think it was a RTS game...not Warhammer 40K...no something that had a twist to it...hmm...nope I dont think there is a game called Failhammer...oh well maybe you just misspelled.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
Talk about twisting the situation.
THE VERY REASON we regard Funcom as having kicked people in the balls is because they did not inform us what was going to be missing at launch.. until.. well .. launch.
If Funcom had told everyone a month prior that there would be this and that missing - we would not be able to accuse them of kicking peoples balls.. because the consumers would know what they were getting.
Its funny how people act as though A) The game is not longer in Beta and
That they can't cancel their order and or get their money back for a pre-order. Thats what make AOC a kick in the balls vs what WAR did. They at least are giving you the time to think about wether you want to continue to pay for the game or not vs making it a nice suprise on the first day you play.
Didn't read your thread but boy am I excited about Warhammer Online.
Sigh all these people whining about the class drop, the dev said that they dropped them because they were not finished and werent up tot he same standard as the other classes. Its actually a GOOD thing... it show sthey care about the standard of the game and dont want to add content for the hell of it.
And that's what it is all about, the evolution.
I think people are comparing games to WoW because that's a game most people know, and why shouldn't they?
WoW was what most games are aspiring to be, a huge success, groundbreaker if you will (Which i very much hope Warhammer Online will be too) you see, when people mention WoW it should not be taken as an insult even though the game is perceived as the worst mmo in history (gameplay wise). A few pages back someone was going all "Your arguments are null and void because you mentioned WoW" and that's just totally wrong.
Even though i mentioned WoW in this post i still want the game to succeed just as much as you do.
I accept the fact that my favorite class, the Choppa, had to be cut so the game could do better as a whole, i am thrilled about public quests, i can'y wait to explore and find some christmas quests, but most of all, i can't wait to rampage through the scenery as an orc, that my choices have been limited to black orc i'm still trying to deal with, but i'd much rather deal with it now than at the login page where i might have been so disappointed that i'd cancelled.
I have been a massive Warcraft fanboy in the past and still is to some extent, i were in the closed beta of WoW, i've watched my favorite class Warlock fall and rise anew in the buff and nerf war, but it has gotten old for me and even though i still like WoW i have moved on.
All this i tell you just so you know what kind off mmo-player you have before you: A former WoW-player.
All right i guess i'm rambling, all in all i say i'm very much excited for Warhammer Online cause by the sound of it i think we're dealing with a game that takes itself seriously and tries to be the best it can be.
See you in WAR, Waaaagh!
Hate to break it to you but warhammer is not really an evolution or even an advancement in MMO games. Its just another partially finished game that is being released so as not to compete with the monster on the block. From a business standpoint there its good practice. From a consumer standpoint its bad for us.
AoC did the exact same thing, they went after the short term money, had a window that they could fit into and not have compition for a half baked game.
The content removal quite simply is EA's decision to not compete with the wow expansion, and try to suck up some sales. They really need another 4-6 months in development time, as the game needs alot of work at this point. Sadly it does not appear that WAR is going to get that badly needed time and monatary investment, which will create huge issues for the game 4-5 months after release.
The pattern has been repeated for most MMO's since WoW, and honestly most mmos are following the access to everyone design, which requires alot of content to prolong the games life for many. There has yet to be one MMO release that really did what i would consider good, and probalby LOTRO was the best of the bunch,and look at the issues it has.
Whats really amusing is we gamers fall for it everytime, we all rush to defend these types of actions, then after the game releases, and we spend our hard earned money, everyone starts complaining about everythihng that isnt complete. Having seen the game frankly im not impressed at all in its current state. Hopefully they will get it together, but 2 months isnt enough time to do much, it just isnt. If they release in september we will end up with another short term MMO that just caters to instant gratification, and has no depth.
Hate to break it to you but you weren't around for WoWs launch so shut the hell up and stop acting like you know how to make a game because you play WoW. Jackass.
Perhaps you could expand on this point? Everything I have seen and heard leads me to believe it is fairly polished.. so Id like to know why you think this.