While it is true that noone can, as a matter of fact, say that its going to be a mega-sucess or a mega-failier I think it is very reasonable to assume that it certainly wont be a mega-success or a mega-failier.
why?
Well, every mmo released of the past 5 years has, almost certainly, failed. But they didnt fail so badly that they closed. (well, if you view APB as an MMO you might) they still struggle on. - So, logically and scientifically anyone who looks at this and says 'its going to fail' has every reason to belive it.
Until an MMO is released that doesnt fail, everyone can reasonably assume that any mmo released in the next 5 years will also fail.
But, unfortunatly the general gaming populous are a shallow lot, and even tho they have been stung again and again and again (at least 2 of those 'agains' are Crypric) they will still, foolishly, come under the illusion of hype and pre-order.
Maybe after another 5 years of fail-mmo's punters will realise that 'yet another mmo release' means, almost certainly, that its rubbish.
While it is true that noone can, as a matter of fact, say that its going to be a mega-sucess or a mega-failier I think it is very reasonable to assume that it certainly wont be a mega-success or a mega-failier.
why?
Well, every mmo released of the past 5 years has, almost certainly, failed. But they didnt fail so badly that they closed. (well, if you view APB as an MMO you might) they still struggle on. - So, logically and scientifically anyone who looks at this and says 'its going to fail' has every reason to belive it.
Until an MMO is released that doesnt fail, everyone can reasonably assume that any mmo released in the next 5 years will also fail.
But, unfortunatly the general gaming populous are a shallow lot, and even tho they have been stung again and again and again (at least 2 of those 'agains' are Crypric) they will still, foolishly, come under the illusion of hype and pre-order.
Maybe after another 5 years of fail-mmo's punters will realise that 'yet another mmo release' means, almost certainly, that its rubbish.
Sorry, but not getting wow numbers doesnt equal failure.
Unless not getting an A+ in school is considered a failure, then id hate to go to your school.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
He tells us 'what it isnt', as facts, therefore you now presenting it as 'just his opinion' is strange.
Tbh, this article is no better or worse then any of the threads I have read on the game, the posters of which, and he readers, he is talking down to (as is becoming his habit in these posts tbh).
It all comes across as a bit hypocritical to me.
This, as i attempted to point out anyone can say anything and then say because no one can predict the future and be accurate. This is was JW did, nothing more. However, he targeted people giving their opinions of the game when he himself provides nothing more than that. Kettle meet pot be black.
Originally posted by droini
K I know for a FACT that a tenth of the WoW Guilds are Bringing there whole Guild over. This will not Kill WoW but since WoW killed it self with the last Patch,ToR didn't have to. I mean if Blizzard didn't learning anything from what sony did.Just Shame on them. When u tell a lv 80 who paid u over 6K in sub's that his 80 is now broke.U have to play Our way or no way. This was a Stupid move from someone who thott they could do anything and ppl would kiss there ass. There is only one way to make your Toon now,so PvP is just dumb. I mean don't get me wrong I know there was alot of these Buy a power level ppl,who don't know shit goes and gets a cheat sheet to make there toon to what Joe blow said was the best. But now there is only 1 way. Blizzard will be F2P in 2 years or less. U can take that to the BANK!!!!!
For a fact huh, lets see what other for fact comments i can make rq.
I know for fact: that only one in 20 wow players will even try swtor. (PS i don't knwo these things im just makign up BS like Droini here, but i bet im closer). That had you subcribed at $15 monthly when wow first came out and never cancelled the sub, the max cost you would have paid with expantiosn cost is $1780 , Far shy if $6k (Facts seem to be a weak point with you droini). Rouges are the only broked pve toons atm.
For the record I FEEL THAT Swtor could use more of wow in it. It seems weak as a mmorpg atm to me. (And i feel wow is a tad weak also, but has been around for so long that it has a lot of content).
I Have 70's and a few 80's on 6 servers and Have done some Poll's Where I have gotten Higher numbers then 10% but if u take the 6 server into the number of total servers. U will get a round about number which is still a little higher then 10%. U have to take into account for PvP servers have more Die hard ppl who don't want to start over after putting there life into there toon. A few more Factors. As for u thinking that the Majority of WoW subs are Happy u are so off. The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. They done said they will go F2P if they lose to many sub's.
You don't know what your talking about. You have absolutely no idea who the WoW playerbase is comprised of. The average WoW players (the one that makes up 80-85% of the subs) doesn't even know that TOR even exists. They do not play PC games in general, let alone MMO's. The average WoW player is not a star wars geek, it's a 35 year old housewife. The average WoW player is 40 year old father of 3. The average WoW player is a 28 year old guy who works 40 hours a week and doesn't have 5 hours a day to devote to a game. Why would the majority of WoW players (again, 80-85%) move to another game when they not only have no desire to play something else, but don't even know that it exists?
But go right ahead and make baseless assumptions on what the WoW playerbase is going to do when 'new game X' launches. People been only doing that for the past 6 years.
Honostly I enjoyed the KOTOR 1, and 2. If this is anything like, then i will enjoy this mmo regardless if it is sandbox or not. Aslong as Bioware keeps the content rolling in.
And as I've said before: It won't live up to anyone's expectations. Because our expectations are unreasonable.
I totally agree with this, everyones expectations, including mine are always unreasonable. Thats just how it is.
Fair enough for certain...
But I guess the thing I worry about most is IF expectations are unrealistic and unreasonable will everybody realize this and stick with the game through the rough spots the 1st 12 months? Or, like other Games with a lot of promise (ie...AoC, WAR, Vanguard), will the majority bail and never return?
Some, maybe most of you have a better time shredding a game or hyping it up way before release than you will ever have actually playing it. Play or dont, who gives a crap.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin. People like to say that WoW didn't reinvent the wheel which is partiallly true but they made smoothed out the wheel and added a better axel. SWTOR on the other hand isn't doing anything but throwing a coat of paint on it.
Until you realize that your storyline doesn't matter you won't be able to see it though. Just like the quests in WoW weren't important at all neither is SWTOR's story. Don't get me wrong, story is cool and all but it doesn't change the gameplay, which is why people play games. If SWTOR will have the exact same gameplay as WoW, what's the point of playing it? Story will only keep certain players interested and only for so long. I've yet to see anything in SWTOR that makes me say "OH!, I want to play that!" and instead I keep saing "I'm pretty sure I've already done that in WoW.
As far as content, yeah we can know because frankly they aren't breaking the mold. They've already said their crafting will be WoW like and they aren't doing a crafter economy. That means crafting will be a secondary thing that you might spend 30 minutes a week on after it's leveled.
Companions are a hinderance to some players. Did you see EVERYONE rolling hunters in WoW? No! Because some people don't like dealing with pets. When a pet is a huge part of your combat strength you need to monitor it all the time. It might get stuck, get killeed, triggering their abilities, attack something you don't want it to, etc. I've tried pet classes again and again and I've yet to find one that doesn't involve micromanaging, except ones where you can sacrafice your pet for more benefits. You might like it but there are a good bit of people that don't.
Well i am sorry for you... guess you are stuck eith WOW then... good luck... my storyline does matter at least to me... i love to have freedon of choice in a game and to know that matters.. that my decisions count.. so... guess we have different opinions about that. Companions are not pets i was just making a point so that most of the readrs can relate to... if you played any of the KOTOR games you would have a idea what companions are all about.. i am shure this will be a mix and expansions of the ideas first delevered by KOTOR, Mass Effect and other games made by Lucas and Bioware... and i am also shure it will be at least a above then average game witch is good enough for me having in mind the alternatives... witch are blow average. Your references to WOW coated etc are things that ppl throu on the table in condamning this game... for me they have no meaning firstly because you can;t know it will be WOW with Star Wars coat and secondly beacuse this will be a stupid move and any stupid moves will cost tons of money for Bioware and company. But to ask from a MMO not to have MMO features such as choosing a class, a race, a look and other things it's idiotic in my point of view.
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin.
You mean the people who have never played the game thats not out and doesnt come out for a few years? tyhat game? the game they dont actually know anything about? and have never played?
Did i meantion theve never played it?
You do know that there TOR is in closed beta testing, right? There are people out there who have actually played the game and have an actual feel and understanding on how it works.
I see people use this "no one has played the game" excuse all the time. As someone who has played the game, all I can do is shake my head at the ignorance.
You know what closed beta is? It's CLOSED.. you will not get any info out of the guys playing it cose they are Bioware empoyees and if anything gets out they would know who to ask and in the end finfout the ones resposible... and i would not want to be in their skin at that point. It is not a escuse it is a fact no one of the ppl who are posting here knows anything.. they just throu crap at the game... give the thing a chance.. and pls those who are so against this game don;t play it.. but i bet you will...
And as I've said before: It won't live up to anyone's expectations. Because our expectations are unreasonable.
I totally agree with this, everyones expectations, including mine are always unreasonable. Thats just how it is.
It is one thing to have high espectations.. it's ok ... but to espect a MMO not to be a MMO... this is a nice thing to see posted here... i think this ppl schould go make themselves a MMO that has no classes no races no armor or all in one... what kind will that be? Waht kind of chalange will that pose? Ehh i am getting tired of this thread... i think Bioware schould make a MMO that is not a MMO so this square heads can call it inovative for them it's not enough the ton of new features Bioware is bringing into the gendre... and this is coming from the developer himself.. they want a MMO that is not a MMO... very clever...
I Have 70's and a few 80's on 6 servers and Have done some Poll's Where I have gotten Higher numbers then 10% but if u take the 6 server into the number of total servers. U will get a round about number which is still a little higher then 10%. U have to take into account for PvP servers have more Die hard ppl who don't want to start over after putting there life into there toon. A few more Factors. As for u thinking that the Majority of WoW subs are Happy u are so off. The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. They done said they will go F2P if they lose to many sub's.
Who replies to your polls. what controls do you have in place to get represenative samples, what servers are you conducting these on (if i make the statement 30% of the USs population is worried about hurricanes hitting their house next year, based on a poll conducted on the southern east cost of the US. I would be wrong.), Did you record the data or is it just your feeling after asking, etc.
I never said wow players are happy with the game. Never mentioned any aspect of affect at all.
"The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. "
If? And if its not as good as an mmo as wow then what? I mean this statment could have been made about WAR, DF, Aion, Name any mmo. Your arguement now is different that orginally, your now claiming if tor is a better mmo than wow it will steal subs, granted. However, As i had orginally, stated it doesn't look to me like that will be the case. Im not happy about it ill take any better mmo, but from what i have seen of SWTOR I don't see this.
I also do not see a reason to go f2p. I mean lets say SWTOR is super amazing sweet and takes 50% of the wow subs. Your claiming that for some reason blizzard will decied that 3 million sub accounts is not worth it and will have to go f2p ? Is that logical in anyway?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
This probably sums up what most of the troll or whine posts would come up with. Don't get me wrong I have hope for the game and I am sure with all the money being put into it this will be a solid title for at least a month or two and well worth the box price.
I know the game isn't finished yet and on top of the restricted game play I can say the walking animations still needs lots of work.
For example in the last leaked Sith video, that I guess pretty much everyone around saw, (don't lie we know you do) the character running animation is very bad. First the legs doesn't feel like connected to the torso, but more like bicycle pedals. Then the feets are too much oriented towards the exterior. Add to that that he lifts his lifts knees way too much, in the end it feels like he's walking on (sorry for the bad word) shit.
Now about the sound and the supposedly awesome voice over. The shouts made by female opponents, when they are hit, sounds like porn stars sound dubbing, it kills all possible immersion. Then in that video the Sith NPC voice really doesn't fit at all the role. It might have worked for an old delusional Jedi. But for this Sith, it feels like a bad TV movie dubbing.
I'm going to buy the collector's edition of that game, and set it next to SWG and AOC CE ones too. I don't know why but I'm afraid there's might be a pattern there... Funny because I don't have a WoW, DDO, nor LotRo CE editions
In the end, the real question is, will people will stay subscribed?
im not in the least bit excited about this game its nothing we havnt already played. its just wow with a starwars skin, probably a bit bigger and a more polished surface, but just wow.
its going to be a dissapointment to most people as most people are expecting something great from bioware. all you will get is a fantastic story that eqauls kotor and a huge world. but thats about it. you hve played this game before and you have seen this look before, its really not something new and its not anything to look forward to.
you can rest assured the game will be as high qaulity as any biowre game but as far as an mmo goes you have to remember one thing. its biowares first mmorpg and it has companions. not a good combination. the crafting will be rubbish and the content linear, elements of the game will feel like its just been copied over and edited.
You guys are something else just wow with Star Wars skin.. what do you espect it's a MMO you want MMO not to be MMO? I really don't get you guys... it is not about polished or not it is about the new features it brings in... you can alter youre story line for example i didn't see any of that in wow.
It is something to look forward too if it is only the fact that you can play the game with others, and i can bet it will be much more then that. I really doubt that Bioware will be so stupid as to copy KOTOR 3, invest alot of money and hope that will bring them more money then what they invested... that would be a stupid move. So i doubt it will be KOTOR 3 online cose Bioware will really lose alot of money in this case scenario.
You can't know what the content, crafting and other things will be untill we can see the game.. man i feel like a borken record... pffff... I tend to disagree with youre point of view anyways... having companions is in wow also and did it damage the game? and it is present in many other MMOs.. it just birngs more free choice elements into the game... for example having a healer combined with a tank type companion.. not as good as a player tank but still it can take some heat off the healer.. i see nothing bad in this... WOW had this and i loved it.. then they made all pets the same and it all went down... i mean how can a bear has the same armor as a owl? ehh i really don't want to refer to WOW again and i will never do it again i promise.. but it's the only game i played alot really loved.. and then really desapointed me personaly.
Go play a half dozen MMO's and you'll notice that while they all have similar ideas for design and mechanics they aren't the same, BUT SWTOR on the other hand is nearly an exact copy of WoW. THAT is why people are calling this WoW with a Star Wars skin.
You mean the people who have never played the game thats not out and doesnt come out for a few years? tyhat game? the game they dont actually know anything about? and have never played?
Did i meantion theve never played it?
You do know that there TOR is in closed beta testing, right? There are people out there who have actually played the game and have an actual feel and understanding on how it works.
I see people use this "no one has played the game" excuse all the time. As someone who has played the game, all I can do is shake my head at the ignorance.
You know what closed beta is? It's CLOSED.. you will not get any info out of the guys playing it cose they are Bioware empoyees and if anything gets out they would know who to ask and in the end finfout the ones resposible... and i would not want to be in their skin at that point. It is not a escuse it is a fact no one of the ppl who are posting here knows anything.. they just throu crap at the game... give the thing a chance.. and pls those who are so against this game don;t play it.. but i bet you will...
Closed betas are open to the public. I know this because I was in one of the test groups. You're thinking of internal testing.
Star Wars: The Old Republic is, whether you love it, hate it, or really couldn’t care less, its own game and as such will appeal to some and completely turn off others
[/Quote]
Nope. It is basically WoW with lightsabers. Oh and voiceovers....can't forget about those.
If there's anything I've learned in my years of online gaming, it's this: never judge a book by its cover. Passing judgement on a game before it launches - let alone this far from launch - is just foolish. When all we have is biased opinions and conjecture about a game based on the information we've been able to skim from various sources, we really don't have anything to go on at all. I'm not a Star Wars fan. The only game I've liked from the Star Wars franchise is The Force Unleashed. That being said, I'm keeping my eye on this game. Despite being an IP I don't have any interest in, I'll like it if the gameplay is solid, and I'm a big fan of Bioware's games (granted this is their first MMO as far as I know).
Hold your judgements until you've actually played the game. And no, I don't mean beta. Betas don't count. The only way to credibly pass your judgement on a game is after you've played its official launch version for a while. Anything before that is just unreliable, period. Games can change vastly from the beginning of a beta to the end of a beta. Champions Online, as much as it has become a subject of hate in the gaming community, is one such game. In the beginning of the closed beta, I hated the game. I couldn't stand the way it played, how the systems worked, anything. Toward the end of the closed beta, however, I really started getting in to it and I soon found myself playing it more than anything else in my free time. By the retail launch, it was a completely different game from what I had played in the beginning of the closed beta.
Another, hopefully less taboo example of my original statement would be Wizards 101. This game is marketed as a "Family Game" and doesn't look like something anyone who has hit puberty would be interested in. It's actually a pretty amusing game when you play it, though. Granted, it's not the deepest of MMOs and it probably won't be something you spend hours playing each day, but it's a pretty nice game to play in those "Damn, I'm bored" moments.
Closed betas are open to the public. I know this because I was in one of the test groups. You're thinking of internal testing.
It doesn't sound as though you informed yourself of the testing you've taken part in. This isn't beta, it's not even really bug testing as much as it's system testing. To gather opinions and nothing more, most of their bug squashing will be done in house according to early statements. Beta phases will be more of this from the sound of it, gathering opinions and tweaking systems as well as stressing them, it's not going to be a bug hunting adventure like normal betas.
I think a few other studios are taking this approach as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Closed betas are open to the public. I know this because I was in one of the test groups. You're thinking of internal testing.
It doesn't sound as though you informed yourself of the testing you've taken part in. This isn't beta, it's not even really bug testing as much as it's system testing. To gather opinions and nothing more, most of their bug squashing will be done in house according to early statements. Beta phases will be more of this from the sound of it, gathering opinions and tweaking systems as well as stressing them, it's not going to be a bug hunting adventure like normal betas.
I think a few other studios are taking this approach as well.
Doesn't matter what it is being used for, it was a closed beta test accessible to the members of the public. The person I quoted had stated that only people who work for BioWare have tested the game, which is simply not true.
BTW, bug reporting is only part of the overall beta testing process. Providing opinions and feedback is just as important. Most of the time, developers do have internal testers who find most of the bugs. What these internal testers can't do is provide honest customer feedback.
i understand why the guy making this article is pissed, because customer are basically very rude now when it come to mmo gaming, and the ambiance overall in the mmo world is really hard, but then again the industry is for something in this situation.
The problem with star war is that what costumers are expecting is excatly what you are not doing of it. Now if lucas gave his name to biowaer because its "The" mmo company, then its his fault. He should have known better than anyone else than star wars is the symbol of inovation, star conquer, and sand box, just like 99% of the custoumer is expecting it to be. So next time maybe find a company that can deliver what star war is the symbol. Now i thinq everyone know start war name is now nothing else than a cash cow, and the last produst are nothing els. But for the customers, when you say "stars war" it trigger the first film symbols, and not the shit he is making now. This mean inovation, space conquer, and sand box"... Now you can think its something the costumers are telling you something esle, its you who should listen to them by respect. Not us who should listen to you...
How is Star Wars a symbol of the Sandbox? Star wars could be a structured story based experience, that is after all what movies are. It could also be an expanded simulation of a galaxy. The lore is deep enough to allow that sure, that deosn't mean it HAS to be presented in such a way.
Did you watch the first films or only the last lucas did? The sand box feeling is what made all the saga possible, its an open story with no end, its a walk in the galaxie and in the human sheme of good and evil. Its not that crap story based stuff Lucas is making now, this is not star war for the customers, ye maybe the youngs. But as i said this is not the proper triger for most customer, i'm just sorry Lucas don't know his father anymore as they say in some cultures.
well i'm a Bioware Fanboi and i'll admit it... This will be just as fun as anything else they've made i'm sure, they have never made a bad title to me. but of course that's just my opinion... and i'll always stick to it :P
They could poop in a box and i'd buy it... but knowing Bioware they always sale a few million copies of each game they make, so saying they aren't a "Major Player" in the gaming industry, obviously people have no clue about the industry at all.
It's so expensive because EA knows that Bioware is an outstanding game developer and they aren't worried about getting their return on their investment.
It may not be a "wow killer" but i'm sure they will end up with a nice hefty subscriber base... Mainly because Star Wars is a niche market really to begin with. Because if you are a serious Trekkie you hate Star Wars and vise versa. there are millions that have seen the movies, but not everyone that seen the movies are a huge fan enough to play the MMO. But there are plenty of Bioware fans that will play it for a couple months at least, if not more if it has some nice addictive gameplay elements that keep you wanting to play. Which unfortunately that isn't something Bioware is known for.
Although, if they put in the effort to add in hefty storyline content on a regular basis, then that might be something else entirely. Which if anyone payed attention to the early developement they purchased the game engine Hero's Journey is built around which allows them to change and add content on the fly without having to bring down the servers to make updates all the time.
This could very well be fairly innovative as far as the genre goes... all depends on how Bioware utilize it.
I'm interested in SWTOR more than I'm excited about it. I'm looking forward to seeing the game mechanics and how immersive the world is but I'm not sure it'll hold my interest.
I've never managed to finish a Bioware game before the consoley linearity gets to me. Yes, I know their are "choices" you can make but they don't make up for actual "let's see what's over here" adventure.
If there's anything I've learned in my years of online gaming, it's this: never judge a book by its cover. Passing judgement on a game before it launches - let alone this far from launch - is just foolish. When all we have is biased opinions and conjecture about a game based on the information we've been able to skim from various sources, we really don't have anything to go on at all. I'm not a Star Wars fan. The only game I've liked from the Star Wars franchise is The Force Unleashed. That being said, I'm keeping my eye on this game. Despite being an IP I don't have any interest in, I'll like it if the gameplay is solid, and I'm a big fan of Bioware's games (granted this is their first MMO as far as I know).
Hold your judgements until you've actually played the game. And no, I don't mean beta. Betas don't count. The only way to credibly pass your judgement on a game is after you've played its official launch version for a while. Anything before that is just unreliable, period. Games can change vastly from the beginning of a beta to the end of a beta. Champions Online, as much as it has become a subject of hate in the gaming community, is one such game. In the beginning of the closed beta, I hated the game. I couldn't stand the way it played, how the systems worked, anything. Toward the end of the closed beta, however, I really started getting in to it and I soon found myself playing it more than anything else in my free time. By the retail launch, it was a completely different game from what I had played in the beginning of the closed beta.
Another, hopefully less taboo example of my original statement would be Wizards 101. This game is marketed as a "Family Game" and doesn't look like something anyone who has hit puberty would be interested in. It's actually a pretty amusing game when you play it, though. Granted, it's not the deepest of MMOs and it probably won't be something you spend hours playing each day, but it's a pretty nice game to play in those "Damn, I'm bored" moments.
Betas always count, Always.
You can judge the book by its cover. But you have to be rational and logical about it (something i am not always).
You never know how everythign ina game will work (no end game, bad pvp, awful classes, etc), but in most cases you can notice bad game preforemce, limited content, lack of direction/purpose, weak systems, etc.
Nothing is certian, however, you can call a spade a spade. Even if the ravenous fanbois will hate you for it. Cuz "it will get fixed", or "its only beta", rofl this has never worked.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Comments
While it is true that noone can, as a matter of fact, say that its going to be a mega-sucess or a mega-failier I think it is very reasonable to assume that it certainly wont be a mega-success or a mega-failier.
why?
Well, every mmo released of the past 5 years has, almost certainly, failed. But they didnt fail so badly that they closed. (well, if you view APB as an MMO you might) they still struggle on. - So, logically and scientifically anyone who looks at this and says 'its going to fail' has every reason to belive it.
Until an MMO is released that doesnt fail, everyone can reasonably assume that any mmo released in the next 5 years will also fail.
But, unfortunatly the general gaming populous are a shallow lot, and even tho they have been stung again and again and again (at least 2 of those 'agains' are Crypric) they will still, foolishly, come under the illusion of hype and pre-order.
Maybe after another 5 years of fail-mmo's punters will realise that 'yet another mmo release' means, almost certainly, that its rubbish.
Sorry, but not getting wow numbers doesnt equal failure.
Unless not getting an A+ in school is considered a failure, then id hate to go to your school.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
You don't know what your talking about. You have absolutely no idea who the WoW playerbase is comprised of. The average WoW players (the one that makes up 80-85% of the subs) doesn't even know that TOR even exists. They do not play PC games in general, let alone MMO's. The average WoW player is not a star wars geek, it's a 35 year old housewife. The average WoW player is 40 year old father of 3. The average WoW player is a 28 year old guy who works 40 hours a week and doesn't have 5 hours a day to devote to a game. Why would the majority of WoW players (again, 80-85%) move to another game when they not only have no desire to play something else, but don't even know that it exists?
But go right ahead and make baseless assumptions on what the WoW playerbase is going to do when 'new game X' launches. People been only doing that for the past 6 years.
haters gonna hate...
im still plan to check it out
I totally agree with this, everyones expectations, including mine are always unreasonable. Thats just how it is.
Good read.
Honostly I enjoyed the KOTOR 1, and 2. If this is anything like, then i will enjoy this mmo regardless if it is sandbox or not. Aslong as Bioware keeps the content rolling in.
Fair enough for certain...
But I guess the thing I worry about most is IF expectations are unrealistic and unreasonable will everybody realize this and stick with the game through the rough spots the 1st 12 months? Or, like other Games with a lot of promise (ie...AoC, WAR, Vanguard), will the majority bail and never return?
You can just save this captain obvious article and insert just about any upcoming game.....
And really the staff at MMO is now writing articles to purposely poke at the trolls, fanboi's and haters.....feed me....feed me.......good job!!
Some, maybe most of you have a better time shredding a game or hyping it up way before release than you will ever have actually playing it. Play or dont, who gives a crap.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
Well i am sorry for you... guess you are stuck eith WOW then... good luck... my storyline does matter at least to me... i love to have freedon of choice in a game and to know that matters.. that my decisions count.. so... guess we have different opinions about that. Companions are not pets i was just making a point so that most of the readrs can relate to... if you played any of the KOTOR games you would have a idea what companions are all about.. i am shure this will be a mix and expansions of the ideas first delevered by KOTOR, Mass Effect and other games made by Lucas and Bioware... and i am also shure it will be at least a above then average game witch is good enough for me having in mind the alternatives... witch are blow average. Your references to WOW coated etc are things that ppl throu on the table in condamning this game... for me they have no meaning firstly because you can;t know it will be WOW with Star Wars coat and secondly beacuse this will be a stupid move and any stupid moves will cost tons of money for Bioware and company. But to ask from a MMO not to have MMO features such as choosing a class, a race, a look and other things it's idiotic in my point of view.
You know what closed beta is? It's CLOSED.. you will not get any info out of the guys playing it cose they are Bioware empoyees and if anything gets out they would know who to ask and in the end finfout the ones resposible... and i would not want to be in their skin at that point. It is not a escuse it is a fact no one of the ppl who are posting here knows anything.. they just throu crap at the game... give the thing a chance.. and pls those who are so against this game don;t play it.. but i bet you will...
It is one thing to have high espectations.. it's ok ... but to espect a MMO not to be a MMO... this is a nice thing to see posted here... i think this ppl schould go make themselves a MMO that has no classes no races no armor or all in one... what kind will that be? Waht kind of chalange will that pose? Ehh i am getting tired of this thread... i think Bioware schould make a MMO that is not a MMO so this square heads can call it inovative for them it's not enough the ton of new features Bioware is bringing into the gendre... and this is coming from the developer himself.. they want a MMO that is not a MMO... very clever...
Who replies to your polls. what controls do you have in place to get represenative samples, what servers are you conducting these on (if i make the statement 30% of the USs population is worried about hurricanes hitting their house next year, based on a poll conducted on the southern east cost of the US. I would be wrong.), Did you record the data or is it just your feeling after asking, etc.
I never said wow players are happy with the game. Never mentioned any aspect of affect at all.
"The reason they stay is because of the bound they have with there Guild Mates. Also there is nothing better. Now they are keeping there guilds on WoW till they find out how SW:ToR holds up. If ToR Holds up to WoW then WoW will be like I said going F2P in 2 years. "
If? And if its not as good as an mmo as wow then what? I mean this statment could have been made about WAR, DF, Aion, Name any mmo. Your arguement now is different that orginally, your now claiming if tor is a better mmo than wow it will steal subs, granted. However, As i had orginally, stated it doesn't look to me like that will be the case. Im not happy about it ill take any better mmo, but from what i have seen of SWTOR I don't see this.
I also do not see a reason to go f2p. I mean lets say SWTOR is super amazing sweet and takes 50% of the wow subs. Your claiming that for some reason blizzard will decied that 3 million sub accounts is not worth it and will have to go f2p ? Is that logical in anyway?
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I know the game isn't finished yet and on top of the restricted game play I can say the walking animations still needs lots of work.
For example in the last leaked Sith video, that I guess pretty much everyone around saw, (don't lie we know you do) the character running animation is very bad. First the legs doesn't feel like connected to the torso, but more like bicycle pedals. Then the feets are too much oriented towards the exterior. Add to that that he lifts his lifts knees way too much, in the end it feels like he's walking on (sorry for the bad word) shit.
Now about the sound and the supposedly awesome voice over. The shouts made by female opponents, when they are hit, sounds like porn stars sound dubbing, it kills all possible immersion. Then in that video the Sith NPC voice really doesn't fit at all the role. It might have worked for an old delusional Jedi. But for this Sith, it feels like a bad TV movie dubbing.
I'm going to buy the collector's edition of that game, and set it next to SWG and AOC CE ones too. I don't know why but I'm afraid there's might be a pattern there... Funny because I don't have a WoW, DDO, nor LotRo CE editions
In the end, the real question is, will people will stay subscribed?
Closed betas are open to the public. I know this because I was in one of the test groups. You're thinking of internal testing.
If there's anything I've learned in my years of online gaming, it's this: never judge a book by its cover. Passing judgement on a game before it launches - let alone this far from launch - is just foolish. When all we have is biased opinions and conjecture about a game based on the information we've been able to skim from various sources, we really don't have anything to go on at all. I'm not a Star Wars fan. The only game I've liked from the Star Wars franchise is The Force Unleashed. That being said, I'm keeping my eye on this game. Despite being an IP I don't have any interest in, I'll like it if the gameplay is solid, and I'm a big fan of Bioware's games (granted this is their first MMO as far as I know).
Hold your judgements until you've actually played the game. And no, I don't mean beta. Betas don't count. The only way to credibly pass your judgement on a game is after you've played its official launch version for a while. Anything before that is just unreliable, period. Games can change vastly from the beginning of a beta to the end of a beta. Champions Online, as much as it has become a subject of hate in the gaming community, is one such game. In the beginning of the closed beta, I hated the game. I couldn't stand the way it played, how the systems worked, anything. Toward the end of the closed beta, however, I really started getting in to it and I soon found myself playing it more than anything else in my free time. By the retail launch, it was a completely different game from what I had played in the beginning of the closed beta.
Another, hopefully less taboo example of my original statement would be Wizards 101. This game is marketed as a "Family Game" and doesn't look like something anyone who has hit puberty would be interested in. It's actually a pretty amusing game when you play it, though. Granted, it's not the deepest of MMOs and it probably won't be something you spend hours playing each day, but it's a pretty nice game to play in those "Damn, I'm bored" moments.
It doesn't sound as though you informed yourself of the testing you've taken part in. This isn't beta, it's not even really bug testing as much as it's system testing. To gather opinions and nothing more, most of their bug squashing will be done in house according to early statements. Beta phases will be more of this from the sound of it, gathering opinions and tweaking systems as well as stressing them, it's not going to be a bug hunting adventure like normal betas.
I think a few other studios are taking this approach as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is not a flame, but here it goes anyway:
"Jon Woods, you ignorant slut." (Dan Ackroyd would be proud).
Here's the bottom line, to make it easy for you:
We expect a great deal from SW:TOR.
I wish to remind Jon Woods that the effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
Are you legion? If so, that's kinda creepy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Doesn't matter what it is being used for, it was a closed beta test accessible to the members of the public. The person I quoted had stated that only people who work for BioWare have tested the game, which is simply not true.
BTW, bug reporting is only part of the overall beta testing process. Providing opinions and feedback is just as important. Most of the time, developers do have internal testers who find most of the bugs. What these internal testers can't do is provide honest customer feedback.
Did you watch the first films or only the last lucas did? The sand box feeling is what made all the saga possible, its an open story with no end, its a walk in the galaxie and in the human sheme of good and evil. Its not that crap story based stuff Lucas is making now, this is not star war for the customers, ye maybe the youngs. But as i said this is not the proper triger for most customer, i'm just sorry Lucas don't know his father anymore as they say in some cultures.
well i'm a Bioware Fanboi and i'll admit it... This will be just as fun as anything else they've made i'm sure, they have never made a bad title to me. but of course that's just my opinion... and i'll always stick to it :P
They could poop in a box and i'd buy it... but knowing Bioware they always sale a few million copies of each game they make, so saying they aren't a "Major Player" in the gaming industry, obviously people have no clue about the industry at all.
It's so expensive because EA knows that Bioware is an outstanding game developer and they aren't worried about getting their return on their investment.
It may not be a "wow killer" but i'm sure they will end up with a nice hefty subscriber base... Mainly because Star Wars is a niche market really to begin with. Because if you are a serious Trekkie you hate Star Wars and vise versa. there are millions that have seen the movies, but not everyone that seen the movies are a huge fan enough to play the MMO. But there are plenty of Bioware fans that will play it for a couple months at least, if not more if it has some nice addictive gameplay elements that keep you wanting to play. Which unfortunately that isn't something Bioware is known for.
Although, if they put in the effort to add in hefty storyline content on a regular basis, then that might be something else entirely. Which if anyone payed attention to the early developement they purchased the game engine Hero's Journey is built around which allows them to change and add content on the fly without having to bring down the servers to make updates all the time.
This could very well be fairly innovative as far as the genre goes... all depends on how Bioware utilize it.
I'm interested in SWTOR more than I'm excited about it. I'm looking forward to seeing the game mechanics and how immersive the world is but I'm not sure it'll hold my interest.
I've never managed to finish a Bioware game before the consoley linearity gets to me. Yes, I know their are "choices" you can make but they don't make up for actual "let's see what's over here" adventure.
Betas always count, Always.
You can judge the book by its cover. But you have to be rational and logical about it (something i am not always).
You never know how everythign ina game will work (no end game, bad pvp, awful classes, etc), but in most cases you can notice bad game preforemce, limited content, lack of direction/purpose, weak systems, etc.
Nothing is certian, however, you can call a spade a spade. Even if the ravenous fanbois will hate you for it. Cuz "it will get fixed", or "its only beta", rofl this has never worked.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine