A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
You have it backwards. It's the little "kiddies" who require stealth to be effective that this game is not aimed at. If you want stealth then go play with the other skill-less kiddies in stealth games.
A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
The deal with stealth so far in MMO's is you can go out in the middle of a field with plenty of mobs or players watching and just hit a button and magically disappear. Now if its a sci fi game sure that works because you build cloaking devices, maybe in fantasy games it works because a caster has a cloaking spell or an inter dimensional pocket spell, but for rogues probably since WOW came out its just been tra la la la let me hump this tree here and hit this button and now i can hump it in private.
Thats not how stealth works in Pen n Paper RPG games, stealth just means you're able to blend in easier when hiding behind rocks, bushes, hills or up in trees. If an NPC Is already watching you the chance your able to conceal yourself drops drastically. If an MMO like Warhammer implemented stealth proper way the assasin classes n such in the Warhammer PnP game work people would bitch and cry and moan about it "what do you mean i can' t turn invisible in the middle of a fight?!"
I hope in the future when Mythic does add on more races to the game, ones that have stealth classes they make stealth work right. You have to actually USE terrain and line of sight to properly use your skill!!!
I for one am glad Mythic's keeping the classes and races loyal to the Warhammer world.
Btw if you cn't solo without going invisible then maybe your not playing the right class.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
The problem is in many games "stealth" = invisibility or stealth can be used in open fields where there is nothing to hide near. This is not the way it should be done.
I don't really care either way. A lot of the games create classes that are based around low armor, high DPS, positional attackers so stealth was required for them to actually perform their tasks.
Most stealth classes are dead when they attack a person near his group mates... I never understood the angst towards stealthers. If you run solo for whatever reason they should have the upper hand. They can't just run into a pile of people like "warriors" can but then they got stealth and can pick their fights.
Either way I'm looking forward to this game. I never play stealthers anyway
A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
Translation: "LOLZ WRU ROGUES? I WUNT TO KS EVERYONE AND NOBODFY SEE ME? SPECIALKLY NUBS IN STARTER AREAS!!! LOLZ I PEFER WOW WITH ROGUES N STUFF KK!"
Stealth in PvP is lame. Rogues are lame. Players playing rogues are lamers.
Best response ever, Omega3.
On this more serius matter about stealth. Players are dangerous PvP opponents because of their stealth capabilities in any MMORPG. Beside Stealth characters have a higher chance to ganking other players. You WILL be ganked on a regular basis.
Ganking can mean being killed while fighting a monster or killing another player while they are fighting a monster (Stealth character can wait for the best time for that, like the enemy player is low on health, action point etc.)
Personally I despise players that got a stealth character because they have a greater advantage in PvP. And then, why do they need that advantage?. Maybe they are weak PvP players. What do you think about that Mr. Ghoul31.
I love the crutch of crappy players actually having to play a game without stealth... Their tears are DELICIOUS!
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
I love the crutch of crappy players actually having to play a game without stealth... Their tears are DELICIOUS!
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
Honestly if you look into the Warhammer world Mythic is doing the right thing, there are races with more stealth classes that they aren't using, does that mean they might NEVER have stealth? I dunno No one can speculate on where things will go with expansions. If you think you can only survive playing stealth then perhaps this game isn't for you. This is all about killing and well WAR having a war. Stealth is for spying and assasinations, there's not much call for that in this game atleast not from the way Mythic tells it. You'd be worthless as a stealther to everyone in RVR & pvp battles where working as a Team counts and stealth players are not known as team players, sure there's a few but the majority of them arent.
Hell if they made stealth the way it should be you may not like your stealth so much. I've always been more of a ranged attacker, give me a tad of time with a new range class and I figure out ways to get the advantage against certain classes, but stealthers are cheap and cheesey they might as well have a teleporter strapped on their back. Hell In Wow it would suck how they'd just vanish right infront of your eyes even though they're not magic casters their frigging rogues!
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I love the crutch of crappy players actually having to play a game without stealth... Their tears are DELICIOUS!
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
Its pretty obvious your mmo experience is limited to WoW. There are alot of games out there without any kind of magical stealth, and they wok just fine. Stealth should be skill based( hiding in a bush, behind a tree or something like that) instead of a player being able to magically disappear in plain view using a puff og smoke.
Stealth units in mmo's arent any more difficult to play then other melee classes, so stop pretending that it requires a higher IQ to play a rogue then a warrior, since you like referring to WoW.
IMO stealth has no place in large scale battles and im glad that it isnt in WAR.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day when he said..Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?...No, but i served in a company of heroes" Sgt. Mike Ranney E-company 506PIR 101'st airborn
Btw, I'd be fine with Stealth if it were done RIGHT like in FPS shooters. In Battlefield 2142 & Unreal Tournament, if I "think" a stealth player is infront of me, etc I can just shoot'em. This is because in shooters we have something called Aim. But in this stupid MMOs you cant target an invisible player even though you "know" he's there. Its the worst game design and like the DAoC/WAR Devs have said over and over, they are a nightmare to balance. I am glad they dont listen to the gankers out there that have no idea how rogues already screws up the rules of engagement. I dont know why these rogues always gotta have stealth in every game they play. Guess they are afraid of a real fight. I've had fun playing my rogue classes though but I look forwardf to the day Developers start using their own imagination like Mythic is doing. Until we get AIM in MMORPGs stealth needs to get punt
Stealth is for noobs who doesn't know how to fight.
That remark is as wrong as can be. You're just saying that because you got killed by a rogue again, arent ya? Stealth is a combat style. It has nothing to do with the ability to fight. At all.
OP: Stealth also has nothing to do with age. I dont see how not-including stealth would make the game more kiddie.
Back on topic: I honestly dont care whether or not they put stealth in. I can see Dark elves having a stealth class though. But thats about it.
I play a stealth class in City of Heroes its just like I always expected easiest class I ever pvped with. If I get in trouble: vanish. I have the edge because the noobs in the zones dont even see me coming and I take away over half they life with my backstab. This is how it goes in all the MMOs thats why its always #1 rolled class for PVP cause getting the jump on noobs is the easiest way to win
Stealth classes are meant to be played like that. Theyre backstabbers. Going for the easy kill. Preferrably when the target is already engaged. This however does NOT mean the player is skill-less and doesnt know how to fight .
This is an ancient topic, by the way. Discussing how certain playstyles tend to annoy a lot more than others. I remember the days when people would call me a pansy when I sniped them in BF1942. Telling me to grow some *beeps* and face them up close and personal. Futile discussion. Sniper--->range..........Rogue--->Stealth.
Sidenote: No stealth in W.A.R.....does that also mean no invisibility (As in spell-wise), or some other form of concealment?
Yep the DEvs have already said they not going to add Stealth some I'm just laughing at all you guys asking for it and trying to make arguments when they have already said Stealth was a big mistake in DAoC and they wont be repeating it in WAR
And no it does not take much skill. If you have skill then turn off hide/invisibility then. Thats what I did with my rogue in City of Villains and earned the respect of players (plus made a pvp film).
And sniping someone in Battlefield is not even close. If I see your position I can track you down. But a rogue can just puff into thin air thats pure BS lol
Stealth is good for people who like to solo. You can find a lone target and fight him one on one. If you dont have stealth, you have to enter enemy territory in large groups, and fight in large groups. In groups, you lose that feeling of a one on one encounter. Hunting down and killing stealthers is a lot of fun. Stealth adds another level to the game.
Ahhh not really... I know when I would play nearly any caster I could solo pretty well, because of the nukes and high damage from ranged. You don't need to hide in order to solo or go 1v1 with a player or monster.
No... no.... hunting stealthers is not fun, by the time I find or see you, you manage to pin my down and take my hole over, that's not "fun." I'd much rather fight 1v1 and skull fu**ed from a Warrior then really go 1v0 on a cloaker (1v0 = Me vs no one, because I can't find you... or it could even mean You vs "no threat" due to me being unable to strike you).
If they do put stealth in for "magic" or pots that's cool, but not unlimited stealth when ever and where ever you want.
Ok lets set this straight. Stealth is the ability to minimize your pressence, not erase it. When you talk about humanoids/orcs/etc stealth means minimizing the sounds you make and disguising your appearance(camo, hiding in shadows, or dressing as your enemy. Extremely hard to get right in an mmo. WoW is a horrible example of stealth.
Invisibility is the ability to basically erase your image completely.
Which one do you want? My guess is you want invisibility. So assuming you want invis what playstyle are you talking about?
There is 2 things that make up invis playstyle. The ability to avoid things and the ability to select fights that you can win. In short, a wuss playstyle. It takes no skill and how anyone can defend it is beyond me. Its like an awp in CSS.
Originally posted by Zech4 actually science is really close to making a COMPLETE invisible cloak!
No it isn't.
Invisibility in MMOs is silly. Now, you can in most games do things that are stealthy just by being a good player. You don't need to become invisibible to be stealthy. In WoW, I was a gnome mage. I could cast Blizzard from inside bushes or behind hills, and because there was no bolt that could relay my location, I could often kill many, many people before giving away my position. You don't need the classic rogue-style invisibility to be viable as a stealthy player. Now, with races, disguises will not work so well as they might in real life.
However, I think there is a way to realistically do stealth. I am not going to get into it right now because it would take more time than I have to devote, but straight-up invisibility is not the way to go. WAR is in the right here.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
um. i've read some funny responses. seems to mostly be people complaining about being ganked... thats the funniest reason i've ever seen about keeping a class out of a game. lol. in daoc stealthers were one of the hardest classes to play until buffbotting became widespread use. as a aug shammy (support class) i never had a problem with 1 or 2 stealthers trying to jump me. i dont see what the problem is. i hope mythic puts them in this game just so i will be able to act afk and then sprint through them and nuke them before they can get the style based crits off. lol yall are funny. the "me not know how kill man without me hammer. me not see invisible person. how me kill what me not see? me not understand. what me do to kill invisible ghosties?" lol thats almost as funny as the people complaining about getting ganked lol.
I know this has nothing to do with warhammer, but being stealthy in real life, such as special forces in militaries (SOCOM anyone?). If the special forces in the military were to "be real men and zerg the enemy", do you really think that would work? Also, ganking is like shooting someone with a sniper, doesn't make you any less skilled at what you do.
There have been a number of suggestions for stealth in MMO's that ive seen that would make it a great deal more interesting versus instant invisibility. I for one would like stealth to be tied to terrain type. For example, in the open, under full sun, you would have 0 opacity, whereas in dense foliage or heavy shadow you might have 90%-100% opacity. You could even have varying degrees based on the density of nearby objects that obscure your avatar (stacks of crates, fences/walls, or being indoors/underground). "invisible" stealthers are truly a force multiplier on the battlefield.
A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
If I am not mistaken....the Witch Hunter is a Stealther.
Planetside had a great stealth system... completely invisible while standing/crouching still which faded the faster you moved to a predator like shimmer at full run... at least thats my memory of it from several years back... on top of that it limited the cloaked persons visibility range. You could also get implants that would allow you to see cloaked people at the cost of vision range.
Comments
The deal with stealth so far in MMO's is you can go out in the middle of a field with plenty of mobs or players watching and just hit a button and magically disappear. Now if its a sci fi game sure that works because you build cloaking devices, maybe in fantasy games it works because a caster has a cloaking spell or an inter dimensional pocket spell, but for rogues probably since WOW came out its just been tra la la la let me hump this tree here and hit this button and now i can hump it in private.
Thats not how stealth works in Pen n Paper RPG games, stealth just means you're able to blend in easier when hiding behind rocks, bushes, hills or up in trees. If an NPC Is already watching you the chance your able to conceal yourself drops drastically. If an MMO like Warhammer implemented stealth proper way the assasin classes n such in the Warhammer PnP game work people would bitch and cry and moan about it "what do you mean i can' t turn invisible in the middle of a fight?!"
I hope in the future when Mythic does add on more races to the game, ones that have stealth classes they make stealth work right. You have to actually USE terrain and line of sight to properly use your skill!!!
I for one am glad Mythic's keeping the classes and races loyal to the Warhammer world.
Btw if you cn't solo without going invisible then maybe your not playing the right class.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
I don't really care either way. A lot of the games create classes that are based around low armor, high DPS, positional attackers so stealth was required for them to actually perform their tasks.
Most stealth classes are dead when they attack a person near his group mates... I never understood the angst towards stealthers. If you run solo for whatever reason they should have the upper hand. They can't just run into a pile of people like "warriors" can but then they got stealth and can pick their fights.
Either way I'm looking forward to this game. I never play stealthers anyway
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Stealth in PvP is lame. Rogues are lame. Players playing rogues are lamers.
Best response ever, Omega3.
On this more serius matter about stealth. Players are dangerous PvP opponents because of their stealth capabilities in any MMORPG. Beside Stealth characters have a higher chance to ganking other players. You WILL be ganked on a regular basis.
Ganking can mean being killed while fighting a monster or killing another player while they are fighting a monster (Stealth character can wait for the best time for that, like the enemy player is low on health, action point etc.)
Personally I despise players that got a stealth character because they have a greater advantage in PvP. And then, why do they need that advantage?. Maybe they are weak PvP players. What do you think about that Mr. Ghoul31.
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
Honestly if you look into the Warhammer world Mythic is doing the right thing, there are races with more stealth classes that they aren't using, does that mean they might NEVER have stealth? I dunno No one can speculate on where things will go with expansions. If you think you can only survive playing stealth then perhaps this game isn't for you. This is all about killing and well WAR having a war. Stealth is for spying and assasinations, there's not much call for that in this game atleast not from the way Mythic tells it. You'd be worthless as a stealther to everyone in RVR & pvp battles where working as a Team counts and stealth players are not known as team players, sure there's a few but the majority of them arent.
Hell if they made stealth the way it should be you may not like your stealth so much. I've always been more of a ranged attacker, give me a tad of time with a new range class and I figure out ways to get the advantage against certain classes, but stealthers are cheap and cheesey they might as well have a teleporter strapped on their back. Hell In Wow it would suck how they'd just vanish right infront of your eyes even though they're not magic casters their frigging rogues!
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Yes I know the people who don't play stealthers love this. These are the people who play their 10k hitpoint warrior. They run up on someone and press their "swing axe " button over and over until they die or the other person dies. They think thats all there is to video games.
If your playstyle is mindless bashing, thats fine. but other people have other playstyles.
"me want to hit man but he invizible. how can me hit him ? that make me sad . Me want to run up to him and press axe button over and over. me no like stelthurs. Duh
Its pretty obvious your mmo experience is limited to WoW. There are alot of games out there without any kind of magical stealth, and they wok just fine. Stealth should be skill based( hiding in a bush, behind a tree or something like that) instead of a player being able to magically disappear in plain view using a puff og smoke.
Stealth units in mmo's arent any more difficult to play then other melee classes, so stop pretending that it requires a higher IQ to play a rogue then a warrior, since you like referring to WoW.
IMO stealth has no place in large scale battles and im glad that it isnt in WAR.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day when he said..Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?...No, but i served in a company of heroes"
Sgt. Mike Ranney E-company 506PIR 101'st airborn
Knowing there's no stealth actually raises my interest level in this game.
Thanks!
That remark is as wrong as can be. You're just saying that because you got killed by a rogue again, arent ya? Stealth is a combat style. It has nothing to do with the ability to fight. At all.
OP: Stealth also has nothing to do with age. I dont see how not-including stealth would make the game more kiddie.
Back on topic: I honestly dont care whether or not they put stealth in. I can see Dark elves having a stealth class though. But thats about it.
I play a stealth class in City of Heroes its just like I always expected easiest class I ever pvped with. If I get in trouble: vanish. I have the edge because the noobs in the zones dont even see me coming and I take away over half they life with my backstab. This is how it goes in all the MMOs thats why its always #1 rolled class for PVP cause getting the jump on noobs is the easiest way to win
Stealth classes are meant to be played like that. Theyre backstabbers. Going for the easy kill. Preferrably when the target is already engaged. This however does NOT mean the player is skill-less and doesnt know how to fight
.
This is an ancient topic, by the way. Discussing how certain playstyles tend to annoy a lot more than others. I remember the days when people would call me a pansy when I sniped them in BF1942. Telling me to grow some *beeps* and face them up close and personal. Futile discussion. Sniper--->range..........Rogue--->Stealth.
Sidenote: No stealth in W.A.R.....does that also mean no invisibility (As in spell-wise), or some other form of concealment?
Yep the DEvs have already said they not going to add Stealth some I'm just laughing at all you guys asking for it and trying to make arguments when they have already said Stealth was a big mistake in DAoC and they wont be repeating it in WAR
And no it does not take much skill. If you have skill then turn off hide/invisibility then. Thats what I did with my rogue in City of Villains and earned the respect of players (plus made a pvp film).
And sniping someone in Battlefield is not even close. If I see your position I can track you down. But a rogue can just puff into thin air thats pure BS lol
No... no.... hunting stealthers is not fun, by the time I find or see you, you manage to pin my down and take my hole over, that's not "fun." I'd much rather fight 1v1 and skull fu**ed from a Warrior then really go 1v0 on a cloaker (1v0 = Me vs no one, because I can't find you... or it could even mean You vs "no threat" due to me being unable to strike you).
If they do put stealth in for "magic" or pots that's cool, but not unlimited stealth when ever and where ever you want.
Just say no to stealth.
Children should be seen and not heard.
Sorry? Not much else to say other than that.
Invisibility is the ability to basically erase your image completely.
Which one do you want? My guess is you want invisibility. So assuming you want invis what playstyle are you talking about?
There is 2 things that make up invis playstyle. The ability to avoid things and the ability to select fights that you can win. In short, a wuss playstyle. It takes no skill and how anyone can defend it is beyond me. Its like an awp in CSS.
No it isn't.
Invisibility in MMOs is silly. Now, you can in most games do things that are stealthy just by being a good player. You don't need to become invisibible to be stealthy. In WoW, I was a gnome mage. I could cast Blizzard from inside bushes or behind hills, and because there was no bolt that could relay my location, I could often kill many, many people before giving away my position. You don't need the classic rogue-style invisibility to be viable as a stealthy player. Now, with races, disguises will not work so well as they might in real life.
However, I think there is a way to realistically do stealth. I am not going to get into it right now because it would take more time than I have to devote, but straight-up invisibility is not the way to go. WAR is in the right here.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Gamer Profile : http://www.guildcafe.com/member/Icucme
There have been a number of suggestions for stealth in MMO's that ive seen that would make it a great deal more interesting versus instant invisibility. I for one would like stealth to be tied to terrain type. For example, in the open, under full sun, you would have 0 opacity, whereas in dense foliage or heavy shadow you might have 90%-100% opacity. You could even have varying degrees based on the density of nearby objects that obscure your avatar (stacks of crates, fences/walls, or being indoors/underground). "invisible" stealthers are truly a force multiplier on the battlefield.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
If I am not mistaken....the Witch Hunter is a Stealther.
I could be wrong.
Force Cloak and Rifleman Camo.....
Remember all the cloaked Jedi Gank squads running around pounding everyone in theed.
Oh well...