I'm all for stealth if it's done right, heck, i'm even for invisibility (as in magic) if it's done right.. Done right being the magic words here, so far i've not seen any of it done right anywhere. Stealth classes could be fun to play sure and even against, if it's not a griefer we're atalking about. But herein lies the problem. The stealth class, as it's been done up to now, has mainly been a griefers tool. And what do griefers do? They ruin games...
Unless you've figured out a good way to do it, no stealth, puh-lease!
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
It really does have to be done right, if they get away with adding stealth then great but if they mess it up then it could easily screw up the game lol
If you want to play WAR, I suggest you get off that damn cross and use it to build a bridge to get the hell over it.
Otherwise, consider playing another game that does have stealth. Really, it's fine that you think that no stealth is "lame". It's also fine that you like stealth ganking unsuspecting players or mobs, and having that obvious and clear advantage at your disposal. It's also fine that you consider this to be a challenging play style. As you can see, there are plenty of people who disagree with you in this thread - and yes, I am one of them too - so why don't you just leave us lamers in peace, and go play whatever stealth PvP fest that rocks your world?
It's obvious to me that you're not even going to play WAR, so why are you crying about the lack of stealth?
Stealthers are mostly pu$$ies in most mmorpg. Alot of time u wont even see them come out solo unless they got a full grp of friends together to gank ppl. When they get ganked they whine on message board, point fingers and cry like little babies.
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
U are a complete idiot, period. What does real life have to do with mmorpg comparison? If Navy seals and Marines have stealth they wouldnt die all over the place in Iraq huh.
Stealthers are mostly pu$$ies in most mmorpg. Alot of time u wont even see them come out solo unless they got a full grp of friends together to gank ppl. When they get ganked they whine on message board, point fingers and cry like little babies.
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
U are a complete idiot, period. What does real life have to do with mmorpg comparison? If Navy seals and Marines have stealth they wouldnt die all over the place in Iraq huh.
obviously this thread has gone to @!#*, and there is nothing wrong with stealthers in games or real life, not that the world should have militaries but yea w/e
SOCOM X are a series of games for the various Playstation series of consoles and handheld. Do the NAVY Seals in SOCOM have invisibility? I have nothing but respect for the US Military forces. They are out there risking their lives to ensure I have the very freedom I am using right this moment to voice my opinions.
The quote responded to was directed at MMORPGs specifically. To even bring in the military when the comment had nothing to do with them in any way, shape or form is an idiotic argument.
Stealthers are mostly pu$$ies in most mmorpg. Alot of time u wont even see them come out solo unless they got a full grp of friends together to gank ppl. When they get ganked they whine on message board, point fingers and cry like little babies.
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
At this point, you are doing nothing but grabbing at straws. What it sounds like is you are upset that WAR won't be giving you the ability to go in and gank lowbies with almost 100% impunity. That has been a detriment to PvP games, not a good aspect of it. Mythic didn't just flip a coin on whether or not to include stealth classes in WAR. It was probably a tough decision based on their experience with DAoC and from other games in their industry. The removal of stealth is a great thing.
A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
First they took away stealing from players, then looting from players and now you can't even stealth. The "next-gen" sure is looking dumbed down. Gotta love all the kiddies making WoW references like that's the only game to ever have stealth.
There's gotta be something psychological to this hate of stealth. People don't seem to mind when they get killed by overpowered two-button classes but if it's a perfectly played stealther it's the end of the fucking world and took no skill what-so-ever. Honestly, try playing a low RR stealther. Takes a bit more skill than all those sorcs and bainshees. I'll take the small scale stealth wars over 8vs8 or keep clusterfuck any day, thank you very much.
/agree . lets all act like mythic is blizzard. how come ya'll keep saying that all the crappy players play stealth... ever played anything outside of WoW and 3rd rate games?... any retard can play a caster in a group and just /assist over and over and the battle is over in under 20-30 seconds. stealth wars last hours and days. please research about mythic's experience with stealth classes. do u really think mythic didn't put stealth in this game because ya'll seem to think that it takes no skill to play a stealth class?.... lol.... and im sure the catholic church is the richest organization on the planet because common people owning money leads to sinful behavior lol i'll go donate 500 bucks for my own prayer rug right now. ya'll crack me up with ur crackpot theories :P
Camo one the other hand would be a cool feature in the game, open to all professions not just to one profession. Just being able to blend into the environment like a sniper in a gilly suit. It would be a good feature for setting traps for your enemy. But to become total invisible or some kind of shadow person running around and cant be seen tell you attack someone is stupid.
Originally posted by Achire First they took away stealing from players, then looting from players
1. who are "they"? the wizards? 2. no, "they" didnt, it was never in WAR to start with. 3. so what? you put those two mechanics in and watch WAR fail. people dont want to play that game, you might, but you are the exception.
and now you can't even stealth. The "next-gen" sure is looking dumbed down.
dumbed down is being able to press a button and vanish. *poof*
Gotta love all the kiddies making WoW references like that's the only game to ever have stealth.
its annoying, but WoW is something that nearly everyone has played, so if you want to make an analogy then WoW is a good source of common ground and shared knowledge.
There's gotta be something psychological to this hate of stealth. People don't seem to mind when they get killed by overpowered two-button classes but if it's a perfectly played stealther it's the end of the fucking world and took no skill what-so-ever.
im not sure where you got this from. people hate being killed by unbalanced classes AND by stealthers. theres nothing wrong with stealth as a mechanic itself, but the playstyle it leads to is irritating. the people who play stealth characters almost always spend their time killing those who dont have a chance to fight back because they are fighting a mob, sitting, whatever. if stealthers worked within groups, infiltrating enemy lines and causing chaos then people might like stealthers (see planetside), but when every stealther has a high dps and a rambo-fancy the bard personality it quickly leads to hatred.
anyhow, stealth could work, to remove the wow rogue gankmachine feel from the class i would suggest something like this:
1. stealth is an ability that takes 1 minute to apply. 2. when exiting stealth you cannot perform any actions for 30 seconds.
then you stealthers are happy, you can sneak through the enemy lines, attack siege equipment, distract people from the fight, scout for your group, etc. and everyone who isnt a stealther is happy, because they wont get ganked. tahdah!
anyhow, stealth could work, to remove the wow rogue gankmachine feel from the class i would suggest something like this: 1. stealth is an ability that takes 1 minute to apply.
2. when exiting stealth you cannot perform any actions for 30 seconds. then you stealthers are happy, you can sneak through the enemy lines, attack siege equipment, distract people from the fight, scout for your group, etc. and everyone who isnt a stealther is happy, because they wont get ganked. tahdah!
Sounds good to me. All the babies in the forum don't even want to discuss stealth tough.
Your incredible powers of pedanticism amaze me! Clearly I'm talking about the trend of dumbing down in MMORPGs. People don't like getting stolen from, let's not have stealing. People don't like losing any of their stuff when they die, let's not have that. Actually, people don't like losing any of their stuff ever, let's take out item decay too. People don't like any sort of risk associated with PVE, let's make PVE and PVP areas separate. People don't like getting surprised by stealthers no matter how much skill it takes, no stealth. Risk vs. reward? Fuck that, let's skip to the reward. It's a trend of instant satisfaction over complexity and any kind of challenge.
Why camo is a bad idea. Complete invisibility versus some degree of blending in with the environment. Doesn't sound like that much of a difference. Ok what if someone turns the graphical effects down? Not much point trying to hide in smoke or grass if someone can just turn those off. What if someone changes some of the graphics related files to make stealthers easily seen (don't tell me that won't happen, even WOW TEH GREATEST MMORPG EVAR!11 had tons of people changings models) and thus gain an unfair advantage compared to others? It's like everyone hoping for a FPS MMORPG without thinking how fun playing a FPS with 150ms ping (not to mention all the additional lag of massive encounters) is.
It's so fucking obvious most people here have never played anything but WoW and come crying here about how much they hate stealth and now the stealthers are the crybabies? A reality check might be in order. You didn't like stealth in WoW, we got that. Stealthers are griefers, they kill people who are AFK or fighting mobs!11 That doesn't even make any fucking sense, you can't do that in DAoC and it'd be impossible to do so in Warhammer Online as well because, better write this down, THE PVE AND PVP AREAS ARE SEPARATE! IF YOU ARE IN A PVP AREA SOME PVP MIGHT OCCUR AND YOU MIGHT DIE!
I'm going to let you all in on a little secret here. The people stealthers killed the most in DAoC were, oh noes you damn easy mode gankers, OTHER STEALTHERS! If you didn't like playing whatever caster that was overpowered this month, playing a stealther and fighting other stealthers was pretty much your only chance of finding solo or small group fights. People who enjoyed this type of gameplay would like it to return in Warhammer Online, and honestly I don't quite buy Mythic's assurances that there will be a place for small fights despite the game not having stealth. No stealth = free RPs for any group that happens to pass by. Obviously Xennith's stealth nerfs would make this kind of gameplay once again obsolete but personally I'd still play a stealther since I like them, I haven't exactly ganked a lot of people in my Cov Ops ship (better get a force recon I guess). One question though, how do you suppose a stealther sabotages a siege engine that is already being used? And if you can't do that, how do you suppose this sabotage business is useful? The funny thing is I killed plenty of people in keeps using siege machines in DAoC in the first place. Nobody is going to get "ganked" by stealthers in Warhammer Online because nobody is going to go to the PVP zones solo in the first place. If the game would have stealthers, anyway.
this is true. i hate the people that get mad that are in contested areas on wow or something and they get pissy because they are attacked i guess those people dont get the message.
Originally posted by Achire People don't like getting surprised by stealthers no matter how much skill it takes, no stealth.
best stealthers in any game ever is planetside, you have a kind of predator shimmer that gets more obvious as you move. to sneak up on someone you actually have to sneak up on them, hiding behind stuff, standing still when they turn to look at you. if you got killed by a stealther then you knew that they had worked hard for it, people complained a little, but for the most part were quite accepting of stealthers killing them with the knife or a pistol.
now in wow / AO / etc etc you know if you got killed by a stealther that it took exactly 0 skill to surprise you, and a small amount of skill to critbuff-aimedshot-flingshot-normalshot-dead.
Obviously Xennith's stealth nerfs would make this kind of gameplay once again obsolete but personally I'd still play a stealther since I like them, I haven't exactly ganked a lot of people in my Cov Ops ship (better get a force recon I guess).
cov ops ships are expensive, lightly armed and intended for scouting. they do very well at that role and i think its a great ship role to have. in my mind EvE hit stealth on the head, their vision of stealth and mine are very close.
One question though, how do you suppose a stealther sabotages a siege engine that is already being used? And if you can't do that, how do you suppose this sabotage business is useful?
how about a set of abilities like "can be used while stealthed" such as "drop oilflask" which places an item into the world that will explode after 1 minute, taking out whatever object it is placed on. if someone is using it and you manage to place it without them noticing the small object appearing then good for you, if they spot it, they can disarm it.
Nobody is going to get "ganked" by stealthers in Warhammer Online because nobody is going to go to the PVP zones solo in the first place. If the game would have stealthers, anyway.
good point, and not one id considered really. this game i think will still be better off without the WoW rogue, being able to pick and chose when and who you fight is just too powerful.
I have a great DAoC story for you about people being killed in the frontiers while afk.
We had a Shadowblade in my guild on Kay. When Mythic added Wall climbing, the only place you could craft any of the high level stuff at the time was out in the last keep in your realm. So my friend would constantly go into DC and Bledmeer by climbing the walls and would very frequently kill people crafting in those keeps. Sometimes they were afk, sometimes not but it didn't matter. He also got away 75% of the time. I can't think of one person that got more flame threads at one time than he did.
It was fun for him for a little while. But based on the fun it ruined for others, he cut back on it and went to killing people in the frontiers.
Games are supposed to be fun. A lot of the stealther hate also comes from Darkness Falls before Mythic changed how stealth functioned. If you could 1 shot someone, you would stay stealthed. This was abused like you wouldn't believe in DF. I know, I used to do it with my Infiltrator. Stealth in EQ was pointless because everyone had see invis. But then again, EQ wasn't really a PvP game. It was an afterthought.
do u really think mythic didn't put stealth in this game because ya'll seem to think that it takes no skill to play a stealth class?.... lol....
No, I think they did it for two reasons:
1) It doesn't fit in well with the lore......
2) They had such a hard time balancing stealthers in DAOC (which they still continue to do 5 years later) that reason one was the perfect excuse to leave it out of the game.
It takes no real skill to gank people who are busy doing PVE activities in a PVP zone, regardless whether they can stealth or not....
The solution to this is to not have any PVE content in stealth zones, keep them focused to PVP only...then there is less reason for complaining...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
stealth wars last hours and days. please research about mythic's experience with stealth classes. do u really think mythic didn't put stealth in this game because ya'll seem to think that it takes no skill to play a stealth class?.... lol....
Mythic didnt put stealth in WAR because they said it was a MISTAKE in DaoC so they do not want to repeat that mistake again. Below is a quote from Mythic:
"Stealth, meaning the ability to become totally invisible, is difficult from a game balance perspective. It's no secret to anyone that we have (in Camelot) added more and more counters to invisibility over the years. This is because there is no strategy to deal with an invisible enemy.
Okay, I take that back, there IS a strategy - "be the SECOND guy to see the assassin." As MMOS go, though, it sucks to be the FIRST guy to see the assassin, because it's not so much "seeing" as "attempting to draw breath around six inches of cold steel."
If we could go back in time, we would probably not include invisibility in the rogue toolkit. We would have agility and wall climbing and special tactics and more, but not total invisibility.
And there won't be invisibility in WAR as a result, even though there will be rogue careers."
You got a hundred MMOs that is already 'mainstreamed' to the rim and has stealth. LOTRO (monster play), WoW, City of Heroes, etc all have stealth already and I'm sure many other uninspired MMOs will include it. Cant you guys use your imagination to think of new ideas? How about suggesting some cool new idea we havent all seen a lot of times already....
A large percentage of people love stealth, and they aren't going to have it? seems like they are simplifying the game for the kiddies. MMORPGS are getting simpler and more mindless everyday. It seems this game will be no exception too bad.
Aww poor guy, he wont be able to gank anyone 20 levels lower than him
Bandwagon! Boy everyone got excited about this topic. It's like the ancient tank vs mage beef all over again. Personally I don't care either way. It seems mythic is keeping it out and I'm fine with that. If they put it in with the dark elves I'm also fine. Stealth is a gimmick most mmos have put in to widen the subscript base, but I don't feel that it's absence will take anything away from WAR. This just means that if you want to be stealthy you'll have to use the environment and shrubbery (Ni!) to sneak up on your opponents. Seems more challenging, realistic, and fun to me.
stealth is just plain unfair, giving one class the ability to be invisible is just down right unfair, stealthers usually draw the worst type of players also..im glad stealthers are not in the game as it will keep alot of scum away from war.......if you want to pk me, at least have the balls to show yourself....letting a player get in the first shot everytime gives that player a huge advantange, soo yay that stealth is not in.
'Most' rogues is a pretty blanket statement. Wrong in general unless youre speaking about a specific game which you didnt state.
The 'rogue' or 'stealther' as is being called in this thread is at heart a strategy. How a game design implements it determines how it will be used efficiently.
As someone who plays rogues in most any RPG I play (single or multiplayer, computer or pen and paper), most of you sound like youre just butthurt cause some crappy PERSON ganked you using stealth. As they say: hate the player not the class (ok so they dont say it but meh). No MMO has truly captured the style of the rogue. Every mmo ive played to date has streamlined the rogue into a single role: dps. EQ1 = dps, WoW = dps, L2 = dps, EQ2 = dps (SOME little utility though badly implemented imo). Is that a problem with the inherent idea of the rogue concept? No. Just the game designers inability to work what many rogue fans are truly looking for in their class: utility.
DAOC had a pretty neat stealth system actually, quite close from what a rogue/assassin should be. stealth with deadly first strike, but average after the stealth wear off. And for people saying it sucked in DAOC..w ell the class alone was ok to handle.. the problem was the stealth groups that were hanging together to make sure they kill their target.(i stoped playing daoc right before atlantis so i dont know how it is now).Besides there was severals ways to screw them ( how funny was it to send my pets on them so they couldtn hide anymore).
the problem of the whole stealth feature isnt the concept itself ( wich is great imo) but the use of it and how it can be eazely exploitable to annoy other people. That mostly why stealth=jackasses for the large majority.
we dont have to go very far to see how this feature is used .. jsut look at the rogue classe in WoW in general.
Stealth as a game mechanic IS very powerful, but since most of the people reading this thread are most familiar with WoW, id like to point out for the education of those not familiar with WoW that the thing that makes rogues in that game so powerful is stealth + STUNLOCK. Those 2 mechanics combined make the rogue class so OP in 1v1 encounters. Ive never heard anyone complain about getting jumped by a feral druid, pre-class review, because even though they could engage targets, they had a hell of a time closing the deal once the fight started. Personally, i could'nt care less if WAR has stealth or not. My main in WoW is a 70 rogue, played since day one of that title, and even i will admit its ridiculous the havok i can inflict on single targets.
You people need to read up on this game more...... 1st off thier is no lowbie ganking in war and 2nd you can be ganked, but only when you're in rvr zone's. Also on the topic of stealth in warhammer... you dont need it. why because the whole ip is about mass battles up close and dirty. As paul once said , you dont like our game don't freaking play it.
Comments
I'm all for stealth if it's done right, heck, i'm even for invisibility (as in magic) if it's done right.. Done right being the magic words here, so far i've not seen any of it done right anywhere. Stealth classes could be fun to play sure and even against, if it's not a griefer we're atalking about. But herein lies the problem. The stealth class, as it's been done up to now, has mainly been a griefers tool. And what do griefers do? They ruin games...
Unless you've figured out a good way to do it, no stealth, puh-lease!
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
It really does have to be done right, if they get away with adding stealth then great but if they mess it up then it could easily screw up the game lol
LOL @ this thread.
*wipes away tears*
Anyway... to the OP:
No, this game won't have stealth - Tough Luck.
If you want to play WAR, I suggest you get off that damn cross and use it to build a bridge to get the hell over it.
Otherwise, consider playing another game that does have stealth. Really, it's fine that you think that no stealth is "lame". It's also fine that you like stealth ganking unsuspecting players or mobs, and having that obvious and clear advantage at your disposal. It's also fine that you consider this to be a challenging play style. As you can see, there are plenty of people who disagree with you in this thread - and yes, I am one of them too - so why don't you just leave us lamers in peace, and go play whatever stealth PvP fest that rocks your world?
It's obvious to me that you're not even going to play WAR, so why are you crying about the lack of stealth?
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
U are a complete idiot, period. What does real life have to do with mmorpg comparison? If Navy seals and Marines have stealth they wouldnt die all over the place in Iraq huh.
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
U are a complete idiot, period. What does real life have to do with mmorpg comparison? If Navy seals and Marines have stealth they wouldnt die all over the place in Iraq huh.
obviously this thread has gone to @!#*, and there is nothing wrong with stealthers in games or real life, not that the world should have militaries but yea w/e
Here is a comparison for you.
SOCOM X are a series of games for the various Playstation series of consoles and handheld. Do the NAVY Seals in SOCOM have invisibility? I have nothing but respect for the US Military forces. They are out there risking their lives to ensure I have the very freedom I am using right this moment to voice my opinions.
The quote responded to was directed at MMORPGs specifically. To even bring in the military when the comment had nothing to do with them in any way, shape or form is an idiotic argument.
Stealthers are mostly pu$$ies in most mmorpg. Alot of time u wont even see them come out solo unless they got a full grp of friends together to gank ppl. When they get ganked they whine on message board, point fingers and cry like little babies.
so navy seals and Marines are babies cus they sneak around and stuff. You sir are a complete moron.
At this point, you are doing nothing but grabbing at straws. What it sounds like is you are upset that WAR won't be giving you the ability to go in and gank lowbies with almost 100% impunity. That has been a detriment to PvP games, not a good aspect of it. Mythic didn't just flip a coin on whether or not to include stealth classes in WAR. It was probably a tough decision based on their experience with DAoC and from other games in their industry. The removal of stealth is a great thing.
Pushing the stealth button?
I want Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoing
There's gotta be something psychological to this hate of stealth. People don't seem to mind when they get killed by overpowered two-button classes but if it's a perfectly played stealther it's the end of the fucking world and took no skill what-so-ever. Honestly, try playing a low RR stealther. Takes a bit more skill than all those sorcs and bainshees. I'll take the small scale stealth wars over 8vs8 or keep clusterfuck any day, thank you very much.
Europa / Siege
Gamer Profile : http://www.guildcafe.com/member/Icucme
Stealth/ invisible as profession skills is stupid
Camo one the other hand would be a cool feature in the game, open to all professions not just to one profession. Just being able to blend into the environment like a sniper in a gilly suit. It would be a good feature for setting traps for your enemy. But to become total invisible or some kind of shadow person running around and cant be seen tell you attack someone is stupid.
1. who are "they"? the wizards?
dumbed down is being able to press a button and vanish. *poof*2. no, "they" didnt, it was never in WAR to start with.
3. so what? you put those two mechanics in and watch WAR fail. people dont want to play that game, you might, but you are the exception.
its annoying, but WoW is something that nearly everyone has played, so if you want to make an analogy then WoW is a good source of common ground and shared knowledge.
im not sure where you got this from. people hate being killed by unbalanced classes AND by stealthers. theres nothing wrong with stealth as a mechanic itself, but the playstyle it leads to is irritating. the people who play stealth characters almost always spend their time killing those who dont have a chance to fight back because they are fighting a mob, sitting, whatever. if stealthers worked within groups, infiltrating enemy lines and causing chaos then people might like stealthers (see planetside), but when every stealther has a high dps and a rambo-fancy the bard personality it quickly leads to hatred.
anyhow, stealth could work, to remove the wow rogue gankmachine feel from the class i would suggest something like this:
1. stealth is an ability that takes 1 minute to apply.
2. when exiting stealth you cannot perform any actions for 30 seconds.
then you stealthers are happy, you can sneak through the enemy lines, attack siege equipment, distract people from the fight, scout for your group, etc. and everyone who isnt a stealther is happy, because they wont get ganked. tahdah!
Sounds good to me. All the babies in the forum don't even want to discuss stealth tough.
Your incredible powers of pedanticism amaze me! Clearly I'm talking about the trend of dumbing down in MMORPGs. People don't like getting stolen from, let's not have stealing. People don't like losing any of their stuff when they die, let's not have that. Actually, people don't like losing any of their stuff ever, let's take out item decay too. People don't like any sort of risk associated with PVE, let's make PVE and PVP areas separate. People don't like getting surprised by stealthers no matter how much skill it takes, no stealth. Risk vs. reward? Fuck that, let's skip to the reward. It's a trend of instant satisfaction over complexity and any kind of challenge.
Why camo is a bad idea. Complete invisibility versus some degree of blending in with the environment. Doesn't sound like that much of a difference. Ok what if someone turns the graphical effects down? Not much point trying to hide in smoke or grass if someone can just turn those off. What if someone changes some of the graphics related files to make stealthers easily seen (don't tell me that won't happen, even WOW TEH GREATEST MMORPG EVAR!11 had tons of people changings models) and thus gain an unfair advantage compared to others? It's like everyone hoping for a FPS MMORPG without thinking how fun playing a FPS with 150ms ping (not to mention all the additional lag of massive encounters) is.
It's so fucking obvious most people here have never played anything but WoW and come crying here about how much they hate stealth and now the stealthers are the crybabies? A reality check might be in order. You didn't like stealth in WoW, we got that. Stealthers are griefers, they kill people who are AFK or fighting mobs!11 That doesn't even make any fucking sense, you can't do that in DAoC and it'd be impossible to do so in Warhammer Online as well because, better write this down, THE PVE AND PVP AREAS ARE SEPARATE! IF YOU ARE IN A PVP AREA SOME PVP MIGHT OCCUR AND YOU MIGHT DIE!
I'm going to let you all in on a little secret here. The people stealthers killed the most in DAoC were, oh noes you damn easy mode gankers, OTHER STEALTHERS! If you didn't like playing whatever caster that was overpowered this month, playing a stealther and fighting other stealthers was pretty much your only chance of finding solo or small group fights. People who enjoyed this type of gameplay would like it to return in Warhammer Online, and honestly I don't quite buy Mythic's assurances that there will be a place for small fights despite the game not having stealth. No stealth = free RPs for any group that happens to pass by. Obviously Xennith's stealth nerfs would make this kind of gameplay once again obsolete but personally I'd still play a stealther since I like them, I haven't exactly ganked a lot of people in my Cov Ops ship (better get a force recon I guess). One question though, how do you suppose a stealther sabotages a siege engine that is already being used? And if you can't do that, how do you suppose this sabotage business is useful? The funny thing is I killed plenty of people in keeps using siege machines in DAoC in the first place. Nobody is going to get "ganked" by stealthers in Warhammer Online because nobody is going to go to the PVP zones solo in the first place. If the game would have stealthers, anyway.
Europa / Siege
best stealthers in any game ever is planetside, you have a kind of predator shimmer that gets more obvious as you move. to sneak up on someone you actually have to sneak up on them, hiding behind stuff, standing still when they turn to look at you. if you got killed by a stealther then you knew that they had worked hard for it, people complained a little, but for the most part were quite accepting of stealthers killing them with the knife or a pistol.
now in wow / AO / etc etc you know if you got killed by a stealther that it took exactly 0 skill to surprise you, and a small amount of skill to critbuff-aimedshot-flingshot-normalshot-dead.
cov ops ships are expensive, lightly armed and intended for scouting. they do very well at that role and i think its a great ship role to have. in my mind EvE hit stealth on the head, their vision of stealth and mine are very close.
how about a set of abilities like "can be used while stealthed" such as "drop oilflask" which places an item into the world that will explode after 1 minute, taking out whatever object it is placed on. if someone is using it and you manage to place it without them noticing the small object appearing then good for you, if they spot it, they can disarm it.
good point, and not one id considered really. this game i think will still be better off without the WoW rogue, being able to pick and chose when and who you fight is just too powerful.
I have a great DAoC story for you about people being killed in the frontiers while afk.
We had a Shadowblade in my guild on Kay. When Mythic added Wall climbing, the only place you could craft any of the high level stuff at the time was out in the last keep in your realm. So my friend would constantly go into DC and Bledmeer by climbing the walls and would very frequently kill people crafting in those keeps. Sometimes they were afk, sometimes not but it didn't matter. He also got away 75% of the time. I can't think of one person that got more flame threads at one time than he did.
It was fun for him for a little while. But based on the fun it ruined for others, he cut back on it and went to killing people in the frontiers.
Games are supposed to be fun. A lot of the stealther hate also comes from Darkness Falls before Mythic changed how stealth functioned. If you could 1 shot someone, you would stay stealthed. This was abused like you wouldn't believe in DF. I know, I used to do it with my Infiltrator. Stealth in EQ was pointless because everyone had see invis. But then again, EQ wasn't really a PvP game. It was an afterthought.
1) It doesn't fit in well with the lore......
2) They had such a hard time balancing stealthers in DAOC (which they still continue to do 5 years later) that reason one was the perfect excuse to leave it out of the game.
It takes no real skill to gank people who are busy doing PVE activities in a PVP zone, regardless whether they can stealth or not....
The solution to this is to not have any PVE content in stealth zones, keep them focused to PVP only...then there is less reason for complaining...
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Mythic didnt put stealth in WAR because they said it was a MISTAKE in DaoC so they do not want to repeat that mistake again. Below is a quote from Mythic:
"Stealth, meaning the ability to become totally invisible, is difficult from a game balance perspective. It's no secret to anyone that we have (in Camelot) added more and more counters to invisibility over the years. This is because there is no strategy to deal with an invisible enemy.
Okay, I take that back, there IS a strategy - "be the SECOND guy to see the assassin." As MMOS go, though, it sucks to be the FIRST guy to see the assassin, because it's not so much "seeing" as "attempting to draw breath around six inches of cold steel."
If we could go back in time, we would probably not include invisibility in the rogue toolkit. We would have agility and wall climbing and special tactics and more, but not total invisibility.
And there won't be invisibility in WAR as a result, even though there will be rogue careers."
You got a hundred MMOs that is already 'mainstreamed' to the rim and has stealth. LOTRO (monster play), WoW, City of Heroes, etc all have stealth already and I'm sure many other uninspired MMOs will include it. Cant you guys use your imagination to think of new ideas? How about suggesting some cool new idea we havent all seen a lot of times already....
the problem of the whole stealth feature isnt the concept itself ( wich is great imo) but the use of it and how it can be eazely exploitable to annoy other people. That mostly why stealth=jackasses for the large majority.
we dont have to go very far to see how this feature is used .. jsut look at the rogue classe in WoW in general.
Good thing Warhammer doesnt have that.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
