Haha, and this is your WAR playerbase, that likes banwagons and blank statments, wooooho!
It will be like with EVE, but instead of warbois calling you stupid and unintelligent for not liking the game, you will be called a skilless kid that should go back to WoW.
You don't need to be 20 lvl higher to kill someone while he's fighting a mob, I don't see why you would need stealth too, I mean you would have to realy suck to need stealth to kill someone even your own level if he's fighting a mob.
But hey, WAR is not WOW, I heard it from a warboi.
*sniff* *sniff* can you smell it? I sure love the smell of smug in the afternoon...
Besides, how could I get in Ironforge and wait for litle gnome snacks to come out of BG with PVP enabled if I didn't have stealth (read invisibility)?
P.S. OP, you are a real moron for comparing stealthers to navy seals, here:
Haha, and this is your WAR playerbase, that likes banwagons and blank statments, wooooho! It will be like with EVE, but instead of warbois calling you stupid and unintelligent for not liking the game, you will be called a skilless kid that should go back to WoW. You don't need to be 20 lvl higher to kill someone while he's fighting a mob, I don't see why you would need stealth too, I mean you would have to realy suck to need stealth to kill someone even your own level if he's fighting a mob. But hey, WAR is not WOW, I heard it from a warboi. *sniff* *sniff* can you smell it? I sure love the smell of smug in the afternoon... Besides, how could I get in Ironforge and wait for litle gnome snacks to come out of BG with PVP enabled if I didn't have stealth (read invisibility)?
P.S. OP, you are a real moron for comparing stealthers to navy seals, here: MMORPGS are not: -food -music -movies -cars -and sure as hell USMC
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Besides making yourself look like an idiot
Haha, and this is your WAR playerbase, that likes banwagons and blank statments, wooooho! It will be like with EVE, but instead of warbois calling you stupid and unintelligent for not liking the game, you will be called a skilless kid that should go back to WoW. You don't need to be 20 lvl higher to kill someone while he's fighting a mob, I don't see why you would need stealth too, I mean you would have to realy suck to need stealth to kill someone even your own level if he's fighting a mob. But hey, WAR is not WOW, I heard it from a warboi. *sniff* *sniff* can you smell it? I sure love the smell of smug in the afternoon... Besides, how could I get in Ironforge and wait for litle gnome snacks to come out of BG with PVP enabled if I didn't have stealth (read invisibility)?
P.S. OP, you are a real moron for comparing stealthers to navy seals, here: MMORPGS are not: -food -music -movies -cars -and sure as hell USMC
im not sure if you are even speakin in sentances...
80% of the people who think their expertise validates their oppinion have only played WoW, and considering how Blizzard created the most horendeous PvP system ever in mmorpgs it is normal that their oppinions are as horendous.
Simple facts:
Stealth has been implemented in a gazillion of games, and the diferent ways it has been implemented are way to many to even consider making a detailed presentation, it is a favored type of playstyle, and no company will act smart if it completely disregards it.
WoW proved that the solo/small group playstyle is extremely more attractive than the forced large group playstyle, DAoC proved that those who like to solo will do so even under the most dificult circumstances, but given the oportunity for people to gank and zerg the soloers they will also do it.
The Invisibility type of Stealth, as seen in DAoC and WoW for example, does not have any more powerfull tools than other classes to kill in PvP, what it does have though is the highest annoying factor.
Those who excel in PvP will do so with whatever tools they have, those who suck will forever suck, which brings us to the next fact.
Those who allways suck in PvP will allways complain the louder, it is for them all companies create easy-mode toons, smart companies rotate the easy-mode toons amongst all classes every month or two, also called the fotm classes, and yes Blizzard and Mythic has allways been smart with their games, so all will have the oportunity to....not suck that much.
All analogies with real life situations or examples are completely moronic, playing a game can not be compared with RL under no circumstances.
War is coming, and i am excited, at last a game that is an evolution of DAoC, and DAoC was a great game, i hope Mythic takes advantage of alot of WoW chracteristics, but i also hope that they have understood all the great things DAoC PvP-RvR had and all the weaknesses WoW PvP has, and they build with that in mind.
Overall considering all the ways Blizzard has destroyed PvP, having stealth or not is quite unimportant, you can have some kind of stealth and have a great PvP system and you can...not have stealth and the PvP system sucks.
I hope War will be the next great thing, but i will not hold my breath either, i am sure though that i will know if it is or not, a few moments after i log in.
And i also hope Mythic allways remember that War is most fun when it is never fair.
Stealth classes tend to be hard to balance for PvP since they rely so heavily on being perma invisible and are more annoying that anything else. Personally I wish games would go more to a 'hide in shadows' type system. Something a little more realistic than walking through the center of town at high noon and no one can see you because you are "stealthed" even though there are 500 people walking around.
DDO has a pretty nice twist on stealth that blends balance and realism together. Darker areas make you very hard to detect, the more light there is the easier it is to see you. Walking through the center of the room in a banquet hall just makes you look silly, walking down a torchlight hall makes you bob-weave you way down, stand in the shadows and you are the ninja master.
I am sure this has been concluded far before my post, but here goes:
Stealth is stupid as it currently stands in World of Warcraft. Enemies can pop out of broad daylight and stunlock a character. Although this takes skill it is still inappropriate and totally unbalanced in many cases. It also makes griefing and corpse camping very easily done.
(I've played a Rogue, and I know the cheapness they bring to the table)
That being said, the Warhammer world does not approach stealth in the same manner. Units who "hide" are almost always hidden within the ranks of other units and usually have one purpose. This means that they would be impossible to implement within an MMORPG that has allows soloing.
I am GLAD GLAD GLAD stealthing is out. If it was implemented I would hope that stealthing would require certain terrain and therefore be completely avoidable by competant people. Aka "Don't go over by those bushes there is probably a rogue in there trying to get the drop on you. In fact, firebomb the hell out of the bushes and hope you kill more than the shrubs."
This thread will continue to pop up as gankers and griefers realize they will have to find another way to manipulate gameplay in their favor.
I am sure this has been concluded far before my post, but here goes:
Stealth is stupid as it currently stands in World of Warcraft. Enemies can pop out of broad daylight and stunlock a character. Although this takes skill it is still inappropriate and totally unbalanced in many cases. It also makes griefing and corpse camping very easily done.
(I've played a Rogue, and I know the cheapness they bring to the table)
That being said, the Warhammer world does not approach stealth in the same manner. Units who "hide" are almost always hidden within the ranks of other units and usually have one purpose. This means that they would be impossible to implement within an MMORPG that has allows soloing.
I am GLAD GLAD GLAD stealthing is out. If it was implemented I would hope that stealthing would require certain terrain and therefore be completely avoidable by competant people. Aka "Don't go over by those bushes there is probably a rogue in there trying to get the drop on you. In fact, firebomb the hell out of the bushes and hope you kill more than the shrubs."
This thread will continue to pop up as gankers and griefers realize they will have to find another way to manipulate gameplay in their favor.
need we go over the fact that mythic didn't make WoW and that since u live on WoW your experiences with most MMO's is a bit limited? just because blizzard doesn't know how to balance pvp in ur favor doesn't mean mythic is going to gear the game towards FoTM style pvp... Sorry to break the news.
Why is someone a troll just because they like stealth? It seems like if anyone offers the least bit of constructive criticism , they get called a troll.
Heck, the release is more than a year away. They still have time to add stealth if enough people want it. And even if they don't, there is nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of stealth for games that will be made in the future.
Although this thread has had its share of Troll posts i place the anti troll posts amongst the trolling posts.
There are many very good, mature and sincere posts in this thread addressing what is allready known, stealth represents an ability that fits a very very popular class or playstyle, that of the rogue-spy-thief-vagabond or whtaver you may call him.
surely the issue does attract forum trolls but in the end i find most posts in here in good order, making the overall discussion interesting and informative.
Stealth is good. It brings alot more depth to a game.
If you want stealth or not depends on how and what you see stealth as. Do you believe it to be something that's only used to gank and gain advantage in PvP or actaully something that makes making up tactics for taking the flag (or anything) more complex?
In my opinion stealth is good and allows players to make better tactics. It brings the fear of being attacked all the time too. If you can see all attackers you will never really get attacked when ur not ready. You will in the most cases be prepared, and even if that is good sometimes, it's mostly not. I prefer to always be ready to be attacked, it's much funnier.
And then we haven't mentioned playing as the stealth class! When you are the player sitting and steering around the character that's stealthing it's really fun. THe feeling when you strike your enemy and strike them totally unknowing.
Now some may say: The class with stealth will always win the fight. This is however not true. Why should a class with stealth get any advantage over the other class except the first attack. As long as stealth and the class(es) who got it isn't overpowered it's no problem. As everything in every game it got a chance that it will be overpowered, if it's spells, stun or autoattack, I don't know, but it can always be overpowered.
Some may now add that "Stealth makes the game simpler". Really what are u thinking when you're saying so? That stealth makes it easier and simpler, how? The class will get the advantage of the first hit in 1v1, there it's no problem. In bigger fights where you need to make up tactics and so, let's take the example of taking the flag. Do you believe that stealth will make the game simpler here, not a chance! Stealth adds another factor when defending and attacking. You can't just run into the flag room totally randomly because you see no defendors, there may be classes stealthing.
WHen making up tactics for taking the flag you have to add the factor that there may be stealthing defendors, and you therefore doesn't know how many that actually are defending the flag. When attacking you will also be able to make a class sneak into the flag room to there take the flag, rush out past the defenders (as they are taken off guard) and then hand it on.
To finish it off: Stealth is a good thing in a PvP based game as it brings another factor to PvPing and makes every player really stand on his toes ready for an attack. Stealthing should be in every PvP based game.
Well, if you want stealth there are plenty of games out there with it. WAR will not be one of them. I am sure I will have fun in WAR and not miss stealth classes, mezes, roots, and many other annoying things in other games.
Why is someone a troll just because they like stealth? It seems like if anyone offers the least bit of constructive criticism , they get called a troll. Heck, the release is more than a year away. They still have time to add stealth if enough people want it. And even if they don't, there is nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of stealth for games that will be made in the future.
Don't think they will be adding it. It is too easy mode if it is like wow's type of stealth. But I can understand how some people would like to play a game feature which doesn't require much brainspace to use.
Don't think they will be adding it. It is too easy mode if it is like wow's type of stealth. But I can understand how some people would like to play a game feature which doesn't require much brainspace to use.
Oh, and playing a 10k hitpoint warrior, who just stands there and swings his weapon over and over takes a lot of skill?
I can't believe people are still crying for stealth. I repeat the Dev's statement on this once again :
Originally posted by vajuras "Stealth, meaning the ability to become totally invisible, is difficult from a game balance perspective. It's no secret to anyone that we have (in Camelot) added more and more counters to invisibility over the years. This is because there is no strategy to deal with an invisible enemy. Okay, I take that back, there IS a strategy - "be the SECOND guy to see the assassin." As MMOS go, though, it sucks to be the FIRST guy to see the assassin, because it's not so much "seeing" as "attempting to draw breath around six inches of cold steel." If we could go back in time, we would probably not include invisibility in the rogue toolkit. We would have agility and wall climbing and special tactics and more, but not total invisibility. And there won't be invisibility in WAR as a result, even though there will be rogue careers."
He didn't say people in general, he said idiots can't call others idiots.
On my part i think that as long as everyone has equall rights to call anyone anything all is good, ofcourse idiots shouldn't actually expect to be taken seriously at anything they say, and this includes their insults.
From the Dev's part i have searched this issue because the rogue character is my favorite, and the only thing i can find is that they will not implement the invisibility kind of stealth as seen in WoW for example, well thats fine with me, so i am even eager to see how they will implement skills and classes that add the unpredictable in combat.
If by chance they even succeed to introduce something totaly inovative with which they can please this particular playstyle then they will have taken an extra gargantuan step towards making the game the best game ever.
One thing is for sure, and they have stated it clearly they will not totaly ignore the rogue concept/playstyle, and how could they it bould be totaly stupid to do so.
-This thread is actually deteriorating into trolling, baiting, insulting too much, maybe there isn't much more to say here anymore.
From the Dev's part i have searched this issue because the rogue character is my favorite, and the only thing i can find is that they will not implement the invisibility kind of stealth as seen in WoW for example, well thats fine with me, so i am even eager to see how they will implement skills and classes that add the unpredictable in combat.
If by chance they even succeed to introduce something totaly inovative with which they can please this particular playstyle then they will have taken an extra gargantuan step towards making the game the best game ever.
One thing is for sure, and they have stated it clearly they will not totaly ignore the rogue concept/playstyle, and how could they it bould be totaly stupid to do so.
Any rougue stuff would be cool. But I don't even see a rogue class. People are saying witchhunter is the rogue class. But in the the description it says the witchhunter stands up on the front lines in battle. And it shows him with a sword. Doesn't seem very rogish to me.
Comments
Haha, and this is your WAR playerbase, that likes banwagons and blank statments, wooooho!
It will be like with EVE, but instead of warbois calling you stupid and unintelligent for not liking the game, you will be called a skilless kid that should go back to WoW.
You don't need to be 20 lvl higher to kill someone while he's fighting a mob, I don't see why you would need stealth too, I mean you would have to realy suck to need stealth to kill someone even your own level if he's fighting a mob.
But hey, WAR is not WOW, I heard it from a warboi.
*sniff* *sniff* can you smell it? I sure love the smell of smug in the afternoon...
Besides, how could I get in Ironforge and wait for litle gnome snacks to come out of BG with PVP enabled if I didn't have stealth (read invisibility)?
P.S. OP, you are a real moron for comparing stealthers to navy seals, here:
MMORPGS are not:
-food
-music
-movies
-cars
-and sure as hell USMC
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Besides making yourself look like an idiot
80% of the people who think their expertise validates their oppinion have only played WoW, and considering how Blizzard created the most horendeous PvP system ever in mmorpgs it is normal that their oppinions are as horendous.
Simple facts:
Stealth has been implemented in a gazillion of games, and the diferent ways it has been implemented are way to many to even consider making a detailed presentation, it is a favored type of playstyle, and no company will act smart if it completely disregards it.
WoW proved that the solo/small group playstyle is extremely more attractive than the forced large group playstyle, DAoC proved that those who like to solo will do so even under the most dificult circumstances, but given the oportunity for people to gank and zerg the soloers they will also do it.
The Invisibility type of Stealth, as seen in DAoC and WoW for example, does not have any more powerfull tools than other classes to kill in PvP, what it does have though is the highest annoying factor.
Those who excel in PvP will do so with whatever tools they have, those who suck will forever suck, which brings us to the next fact.
Those who allways suck in PvP will allways complain the louder, it is for them all companies create easy-mode toons, smart companies rotate the easy-mode toons amongst all classes every month or two, also called the fotm classes, and yes Blizzard and Mythic has allways been smart with their games, so all will have the oportunity to....not suck that much.
All analogies with real life situations or examples are completely moronic, playing a game can not be compared with RL under no circumstances.
War is coming, and i am excited, at last a game that is an evolution of DAoC, and DAoC was a great game, i hope Mythic takes advantage of alot of WoW chracteristics, but i also hope that they have understood all the great things DAoC PvP-RvR had and all the weaknesses WoW PvP has, and they build with that in mind.
Overall considering all the ways Blizzard has destroyed PvP, having stealth or not is quite unimportant, you can have some kind of stealth and have a great PvP system and you can...not have stealth and the PvP system sucks.
I hope War will be the next great thing, but i will not hold my breath either, i am sure though that i will know if it is or not, a few moments after i log in.
And i also hope Mythic allways remember that War is most fun when it is never fair.
What a great challenge they have.
DDO has a pretty nice twist on stealth that blends balance and realism together. Darker areas make you very hard to detect, the more light there is the easier it is to see you. Walking through the center of the room in a banquet hall just makes you look silly, walking down a torchlight hall makes you bob-weave you way down, stand in the shadows and you are the ninja master.
Stealth is stupid as it currently stands in World of Warcraft. Enemies can pop out of broad daylight and stunlock a character. Although this takes skill it is still inappropriate and totally unbalanced in many cases. It also makes griefing and corpse camping very easily done.
(I've played a Rogue, and I know the cheapness they bring to the table)
That being said, the Warhammer world does not approach stealth in the same manner. Units who "hide" are almost always hidden within the ranks of other units and usually have one purpose. This means that they would be impossible to implement within an MMORPG that has allows soloing.
I am GLAD GLAD GLAD stealthing is out. If it was implemented I would hope that stealthing would require certain terrain and therefore be completely avoidable by competant people. Aka "Don't go over by those bushes there is probably a rogue in there trying to get the drop on you. In fact, firebomb the hell out of the bushes and hope you kill more than the shrubs."
This thread will continue to pop up as gankers and griefers realize they will have to find another way to manipulate gameplay in their favor.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
Gamer Profile : http://www.guildcafe.com/member/Icucme
I was wondering about stealth.
I knew it doesn't suit the Warhammer World, and am therefor really glad they won't implement it in the game.
Why is someone a troll just because they like stealth? It seems like if anyone offers the least bit of constructive criticism , they get called a troll.
Heck, the release is more than a year away. They still have time to add stealth if enough people want it. And even if they don't, there is nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of stealth for games that will be made in the future.
There are many very good, mature and sincere posts in this thread addressing what is allready known, stealth represents an ability that fits a very very popular class or playstyle, that of the rogue-spy-thief-vagabond or whtaver you may call him.
surely the issue does attract forum trolls but in the end i find most posts in here in good order, making the overall discussion interesting and informative.
Stealth is good. It brings alot more depth to a game.
If you want stealth or not depends on how and what you see stealth as. Do you believe it to be something that's only used to gank and gain advantage in PvP or actaully something that makes making up tactics for taking the flag (or anything) more complex?
In my opinion stealth is good and allows players to make better tactics. It brings the fear of being attacked all the time too. If you can see all attackers you will never really get attacked when ur not ready. You will in the most cases be prepared, and even if that is good sometimes, it's mostly not. I prefer to always be ready to be attacked, it's much funnier.
And then we haven't mentioned playing as the stealth class! When you are the player sitting and steering around the character that's stealthing it's really fun. THe feeling when you strike your enemy and strike them totally unknowing.
Now some may say: The class with stealth will always win the fight. This is however not true. Why should a class with stealth get any advantage over the other class except the first attack. As long as stealth and the class(es) who got it isn't overpowered it's no problem. As everything in every game it got a chance that it will be overpowered, if it's spells, stun or autoattack, I don't know, but it can always be overpowered.
Some may now add that "Stealth makes the game simpler". Really what are u thinking when you're saying so? That stealth makes it easier and simpler, how? The class will get the advantage of the first hit in 1v1, there it's no problem. In bigger fights where you need to make up tactics and so, let's take the example of taking the flag. Do you believe that stealth will make the game simpler here, not a chance! Stealth adds another factor when defending and attacking. You can't just run into the flag room totally randomly because you see no defendors, there may be classes stealthing.
WHen making up tactics for taking the flag you have to add the factor that there may be stealthing defendors, and you therefore doesn't know how many that actually are defending the flag. When attacking you will also be able to make a class sneak into the flag room to there take the flag, rush out past the defenders (as they are taken off guard) and then hand it on.
To finish it off: Stealth is a good thing in a PvP based game as it brings another factor to PvPing and makes every player really stand on his toes ready for an attack. Stealthing should be in every PvP based game.
I like what they are trying to do with WAR.
Don't think they will be adding it. It is too easy mode if it is like wow's type of stealth. But I can understand how some people would like to play a game feature which doesn't require much brainspace to use.
Oh, and playing a 10k hitpoint warrior, who just stands there and swings his weapon over and over takes a lot of skill?
What an ignorant comment.
I can't believe people are still crying for stealth. I repeat the Dev's statement on this once again :
On my part i think that as long as everyone has equall rights to call anyone anything all is good, ofcourse idiots shouldn't actually expect to be taken seriously at anything they say, and this includes their insults.
From the Dev's part i have searched this issue because the rogue character is my favorite, and the only thing i can find is that they will not implement the invisibility kind of stealth as seen in WoW for example, well thats fine with me, so i am even eager to see how they will implement skills and classes that add the unpredictable in combat.
If by chance they even succeed to introduce something totaly inovative with which they can please this particular playstyle then they will have taken an extra gargantuan step towards making the game the best game ever.
One thing is for sure, and they have stated it clearly they will not totaly ignore the rogue concept/playstyle, and how could they it bould be totaly stupid to do so.
-This thread is actually deteriorating into trolling, baiting, insulting too much, maybe there isn't much more to say here anymore.
if you have anything to add this discussion, besides calling people names feel free.
Any rougue stuff would be cool. But I don't even see a rogue class. People are saying witchhunter is the rogue class. But in the the description it says the witchhunter stands up on the front lines in battle. And it shows him with a sword. Doesn't seem very rogish to me.