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Why I've had enough of WoW
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What a joke.
Suddenly OP Vetarnias sees that his arguments FAIL because of admitting he only was a very low level class.
Now a "ONE post vergin" comes along who says ... "we tried the game together".
What a joke. And you still want to be believable this .... on a forum where 100 people are logged in at the moment. Kindergarden.
We communicate outside this forum. Hence my knowledge of it. Nothing "kindergarten" about it.
Formed parties ? you two? in what content context? with a difference of 30 levels??
I never said there was a content context. I specifically stated that we played seperately, while in a party. This allowed easy communication with the party chat channel. This also explains more about WoW being a single player experience, in a multiplayer world.
Loading screens ?????? in flying over the seamless world ??????
You Sir don't know anything about Wow flying over the seamless worlds of Outland and Northrend. NO loading screens in sight when you fly....
Why do you need to try and prove that I've never played WoW, just to defend your own twisted arguments? Can you fly from Outland to Northrend? No. Because that's a SEAM. Sure they're in different planes of existence, but you can't fly between Kalimdor, the Eastern Kingdoms, OR Northrend without seeing a loading screen. That's not a seamless world.
Also guys: reread the last sentence of this guy: IF you had ever played ANYTHING in Wow, you knew exactly these things can be done in Wow lore (hell even Warhammer lore has dwarf helicopters).
Gnomes are .... ok got the picture now ?
I didn't specify any particular game when I said "fantasy". WoW lore may definitely allow for such ridiculous additions, but in a game where pop culture references are everywhere (yes, Haris Pilton), how are we to take it seriously? You really shouldn't talk like that last sentence of mine completely throws off everything I've said.
So conclusion: this comical duo didn't even enter Wow after level 46. I am quite convinced
Of course I am starting to get on your nerves, as SHOULD be, in showing the hoax of it all.
Your immaturity is showing. I can easily link you to screenshots and the like of my character in WoW, but you're so convinced it's a hoax that you're going to claim that they're photoshopped anyway. I just believe you've got no way to defend your precious game anymore, and have to resort to calling out other people's experiences.
zorndorf, while I admire your passion for the game, your arrogance and vindictiveness while posting is really unnecessary. if you weren't so bound on finding a fault in these people you would be able to read what they are saying. you can be in a party with someone and be doing things in different parts of the world at the same time. for instance, the OP could be in a party with his friend, the friend is questing in outland, while the OP is questing in felwood. its perfectly feasible. secondly, they never said anything about the engineering mounts being against warcraft lore, they just said that not many people manage to get them.
please read the other posts properly before replying to them. as things stand you are making yourself look like a complete fool and giving the other wow players a very bad name.
In the original post you , Mr first post (second post as of now), made a gigantic error that is so BIG every active Wow player would see it.
I am not giving it away, l'll let other Wow fans have the fun to find it.
Only one starting hint - as you were playing with that other Mr lvl 46 - the game started for you on Nov 13th right ? (see the proof of purchase).
Well you just made an epic error in your first post Mr first post ....
),
Are you trying to say that I couldn't have gotten to level 78 on November the 13th, or that Vetarnias and I were not playing at the same time? He started around a month after me due to trouble finding a copy of the game. If it is in fact the former, then I should point out that I did not get to level 78 ON the 13th... Though I'm still trying to figure out what you're accusing me of.
Anyway, let these "unhackable stats" remove any doubt:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thaurissan&n=Murdyll
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Thaurissan&n=Vetarnian
No.
Not good Try again.
Gigantic Error in your first post is still there.
And look : you already posted 3(!) times now on this forum , as a newbie, why you learn pretty fast.
So you didn't start together ? mmm. Because .... the OP .... "couldn't find a copy of the game ????"
He searched for a month to find a copy of ... Wow.
nice.
Or is it perhaps the dates on the armory didn't match the story you guys are telling us.
Or should I say "guy".
This OP theory is more and more looking like a joke if you ask me.
First made some "heavy conclusions of end game" without even reaching 90% of the game, then a merry go round why you can judge a game without even seeing things.
Now the rescue angel , playing together 30 levels apart and not in the same lands.
Pity that rescue angel stopped JUST before the nasty questions end game and made a gigantic error in his first post.
Christ, man. You really are hung up about this. I never said we started the game together. In fact, Vetarnias didn't even start looking for a copy until I had been playing for a few weeks... Why is it so hard to understand, and why, just why the HELL does it mean anything at all? I've played the game to 78. My character data is there. I agree with the OP's points. If you can't seem to wrap your narrow mind around that, then you can just go on defending your boring-ass game, but it falls on deaf ears.
Read all of the original post, well written and I understand everything that the poster is saying and agree with alot of it.
I am not a power gamer, not even close, I did manage to get a character to level 70 while that was still the cap but did not have anywhere near the time available to do the "Endgame" raids and such at the time.
There is alot, really alot to do in WoW, I have played off and on since release, casually, have had alot of fun. When I get tired of it I cancel my account until I feel the urge to play again.
Some people love WoW, some hate it. It is a very successful game and I feel that Blizzard is a top notch maker of computer games, so much so that when their "mystery mmo" comes out in a couple years I will almost certainly give it a try.
If you are not getting a fun experience out of WoW, dont play it, there are other games and other things to do, try and not get too bent out of shape about a computer game.
I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this.
Murdyll and I have been playing games together since 2007. He's Australian, I'm Canadian. Some person with admin status at this site could probably confirm this by checking our IP addresses. As I do believe that instant teleportation hasn't been invented yet, it is very unlikely for a single person (as you seem to imply) to be able to post on two accounts, within minutes, from two locations at separate ends of the globe.
You can see that we have been gaming together since 2007 by looking at this old forum of ours from the time we were playing Puzzle Pirates, right here: http://theblackflame.freeforums.org/ . You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that I have changed the last letter of my moniker (though my WoW character is indeed named Vetarnian), while Murdyll has retained his.
Or are you in fact going to say that this conspiracy has been dating back to 2007, long before I ever picked up World of Warcraft?
What Murdyll also tried tactfully to avoid saying when he wrote that I "couldn't find a copy of the game" was that I was practically broke when Murdyll and his friends started playing in October, and couldn't afford to pay for a copy of the game until November. I work on a freelance basis, so my revenue is not steady. I trust that I do not have to post my bank transcripts to defend myself on this point.
I cringed when I saw what Murdyll wrote because I knew exactly what you'd say, that WoW is so omnipresent that it's probably even included in Red Cross packages these days. But ask yourself this: If Murdyll had been my alt, why didn't I just write that I had levelled to 78 in my original post, instead of sticking to a measly 46? Unless of course you're assuming that I've just stolen this Murdyll's identity to create another account here....
In fact, I'm chatting with Murdyll as I'm typing this, and he is bringing my attention to a screenshot of his. It's small, but you can clearly see both our names in it. Some conspiracy that must be, right?.
Murdyll could afford an epic flying mount because I gave him the money to buy it, over 2000 gold of my own. Before you go off saying I'm a filthy gold buyer, I actually ground for hours to accumulate that sum. How? During the Christmas holidays (aka Winter Veil), eggs and gingerbread cookies were in high demand to complete a seasonal quest. So I went outside of Silvermoon City and killed dragonhawk hatchlings for hours and hours and hours. The small eggs usually sold at 1 gold apiece. That gives you an idea of how long that took, but I did it honestly. No bot, no gold buying. And since I had no real use for this kind of money at level 46, I donated it all to Murdyll, and he apparently had someone else to help him buy the epic mount as well.
If you played Everquest you would feel that WoW is very easy. I did enjoy the original game but with the expansions they have made it too easy for my taste. I enjoyed the challenging dungeons of the beginnign. WOTLK has made raiding so trivial and easy that it isn't even interesting or worth doing.
This is what your initial review should have been. Excellently written and all your own ideas, not simply a rehash of all what has been said already. Welcome to the forums.
After reading through this and your PoTBS impressions, I think I understand where your problem lies and it's not really with the game. What you have lacked is a good set of folks with which to play these games. Let me give you a little background on me which I think will make it more clear what I mean.
I started playing Enemy Territory (FPS) about a year or so before the release of WoW with a couple of real life friends. Gradually we expanded our group and had maybe about 10 to 15 players that were playing fairly regularly, we had what we called Friday Night Madness sessions where everyone would show up to play on Friday nights. It was a blast. We would all trash talk on Ventrilo and I do believe that the comradarie with those guys was better than playing the game. The game was only the instrument we used to have fun, it was not necessarily the source of the fun.
When WoW was released a few of us decided to give it a try and we were instantly hooked as we had become a little burned out on ET. We convinced a few other of the guys that were in our ET guild to join us and the rest is history. We almost NEVER did pugs. We always ran with each other and helped each other. Whenever we were online we were in ventrilo. Someone would say they need to go do an instance and several people would offer to go. We were doing the instances not because they were on our TODO list, but because we were playing with friends and it was an absolute blast of a time. Whenever my buddies weren't on I would quest on my own occasionally going with a pug or maybe some guys outside my guild that I had become friends with as part of playing the game.
For me, WoW was the perfect MMO because it was simply a fun game to play. We couldn't have cared less about our gear or raiding or any of that. I didn't have one toon that I leveled up, I leveled up 7 at the same time, all at various levels so that anytime someone needed to go in an instance I would take the toon that best fit the role and the level of the instance. Now 4 years later most of us have moved on and I find my time in the game very limited. Most of them just burned out on the game and a few others graduated to end game and are hard core raiders and such. I never really cared that much for raiding although I did enjoy a couple months of running thru Kara which is pretty much raiding lite.
You see, people don't understand that there is more than one way to play an MMO. Most people consider raiding, acquiring gear, leveling up etc to be the whole purpose of the game. It's not. The purpose of the game is to have fun with friends. THAT'S what an MMO is, Massive Multiplayer Online. The RPG part is secondary in nature to the MMO part and for me WoW does that better than any other MMO I have ever played. I'm over simplifying it, but I think you get the point I'm trying to make. Now many people accuse me of being casual, but I was playing up to 40 or 50 hours a week when the game was initially out, so I don't really see what's so casual about that. Yes, my view towards the game might be casual in nature, but I don't really see any reason to make setting goals for myself and grinding towards achieving those goals a priority. That's a pointless excercise compared to just having fun which is what I'm striving for. It is a game afterall isn't it? Isn't the point of playing games to have fun?
Now there will be people that say the point of playing a game is to win or to be challenged. I'll change that slightly and say the point should be competing, not winning. You should get enjoyment from the thrill of the competition and not be so concerned with winning or losing. Many people have forgotten this. As soon as you start trying to determine what build, piece of gear or whatever is the "best", you have missed the bigger picture completely and you are setting yourself up for NEVER being fully happy with the results.
One last thing and then I'm done. My views toward WoW don't end with WoW or even with video games in general, these are my views toward life. I used to play softball with a bunch of buddies. We never cared whether we won or lost, it was just getting together to play that was the best part. Some people will tell you however that it's more fun to win than to lose, I'll counter that by saying it's more fun to have played and lost then not to have played at all.
Because I DO NOT believe in newly accounts being created to help the OP out of his misery.
The man has ZERO credence with his "analysis" without even reaching the mid game.
And you Sir MUST be a hell of a player in having had a level 78 EPIC flying mount after playing for 2 months.
So OR you were having LOTS of fun to gather it all ... starting at zero playing day and night.
OR some other version of your story needs (again) to be changed.
I guess you can change your version a third time.
But the OP stays out for not having done anything beyond level 46. No matter how hard you try to back him up.
Zorn you are being quite ridiculous, AND your making those of us who DID play wow hardcore look bad so stop.
Out of 17 pages the only person whos opinion I respect on the wow forums is pappy. Even though his and I opinions differ greatly at times, he does know what he is talking about usually.
It doesn't matter if the one guy got to 78. It doesn't matter that the other guy only reached 46. This is one of WoW's epic flaws. It sucks utter ass unless you can reach a cap.
I own 4 level 80, 5 level 70-80 and jesus christ who knows how many 1-60.
Do you know how many of those characters I found "fun" to level?
Answer : 1
The first character which was a mage. Even back then many many years ago, I found it mundane and boring as hell just to get that mage to 60 but I was playing with friends which made it fun.
Every character I have made since then spanning 2 accounts (3 if you count my wifes account) have been a serious and mind numbing pain in my ass.
As I have already stated, even though his OP is mostly opinion based on his state of the game, even a WoW player of my caliber was forced to agree with him.
Everything he said at least in my mind as well is pretty much spot on. Even in the later stages of the game. WoW is a level based, gear based treadmill of epic fail. Nothing is going to change that.
The BG's, they are nothing more than minor upgrades of one another. Here I will explain.
Warsong - Capture the flag, relatively small battle area, using a "Unreal Tourney" style map.
AB - Capture the resources, slightly larger map, using a "Unreal 2" style map.
AV - Assault map, objective based with reinforcement counter, basically a "Day of Defeat" map on a larger scale.
This were the BG's of old back in Pre-TBC. So what did blizzard do to expand on this for level 60-70.
Eye of the Storm - Capture the flag + Capture the resources where resources are objectives. Meaning you capture objectives like in AV but they have a reverse counter like in AB. With the flag adding extra points upon capturing. Map size is comparable to AB.
NICE! They gave us a medium AB sized maps with elements from all 3 of the previous BG's. Kinda Meh because it was nothing new really. Pretty in colors not so fun in something new.
Arena Battle - 2v2 3v3 or 5v5 PvP Gladiator Style, very small map sizes. This is like a forge Halo death match. Hell I will even give it a Mad Max and the Thunderdome description. Where instead of 1 man enter 1 man leave it is 10 man enter and lets pray to god 1 of our man leave. Arena is what it is, small maps designed for very close quarter combat, pitting one imbalanced class up against another imbalanced class. It is fun for a while, but it is also a gear grinding treadmill.
Which brings of to WotLK.
Yes Wintergrasp, Blizzard's last ditch effort to make players PvP in a world PvP capacity. Then we have Ancients, No different from AV , AB or Warsong except that you get to drive a tank. (Will say tanks are very cool) but this in no way excuses Blizzards lazy approach to the games newest expansion.
Seriously we could sit here for days and I could go back and forth with you all day about WoW, it's +'s and its -'s but there is really no need.
WoW's biggest flaw where this level 46 is concerned is, that it SHOULD be fun from the get go. It should be something you love to play from 1-80. Truth is though they have long forgot about classic. LONG AGO. It is dry and boring and desolate. Hell I commend him for even getting to 46. Most people do not even make it that far. This is a design flaw in wow. Instead of making the game better for anyone new who might start, they just keep stacking dominoes on top of each other at the top. Which will one day come crashing down.
Truth is WoW doesn't start now until 80. Everything you do in WoW up to 80 is pretty much pointless.
Example, we will take Kara, why the hell would you do Kara anymore?
Answer is : You wouldn't. Why do you need badges? Why do you need Tier 4 tokens? You don't. It is so relatively easy to level from 60-70 and hit Northrend that doing ANYTHING inside of Outland aside from quest or grinding is pointless. Everything in every dungeon in outland is garbage compared to what your going to get in Naxx. So blizzard effectively made level 1-70 pointless and useless and just a big time sink you MUST wade through to get to end game northrend. GG blizzard.
The OP was right, in my opinion, his post is an opinion, and everything you been blasting him with is an opinion. So all of this is kinda pointless, almost as pointless as wow.
Some love the treadmill, some have grown tired of it. It doesn't matter about anything else in between.
PS. For the record, flying mounts suck ass, and the new dragons look like a flying penis. (proto-drakes are cool) So he wasn't missing anything by not getting one. Only thing I see people use them for is to mount up and run away from my ret paladin.
I understand that wow really gets going at level 80, to say that the other stuff is obseleet isn't really true. take kara for example, sure its not as common now a days but people still run it, either for the achievement, just for fun, or like me, for the enchanting formulae that drops there. I haven't done much of the PvP but yes it is quite repetitive, but thats not the point. the point of the battlegrounds is for people to beat on others. the objectives are there purely to decide a winner so the battles don't go on forever. many players go in there just to kill other people and couldn't care less about capturing the flags, etc.
You guys really shouldn't waste time arguing with Zorndorf. He's the champion fanboi of WoW. Anything about his precious is just going to end up getting "LOLZ 11.5 million says so"
WoW fanboi: "lolz 11.5 million customers, itz obviously da best"
McDonald's: over 1 billion burgers served
This I would gladly do. But at this stage, I cannot as it's more and more turning into a point of principle.
I only pay occasional interest to the WoW forum section because, well, I don't play that game anymore, and I don't have that same passion for talking about it as for, say, Pirates of the Burning Sea, for which I'm still a regular member of the woodstove league on the MMORPG forums despite stopping playing that game in June.
PotBS is really a case of wasted potential and makes for endless punditry, whereas WoW, I readily admit, is not for me. The problem with WoW lies in the fact that it's pretty much unassailable according to its supporters because, as you pointed out, it's so popular, compounded by the impact WoW has on the industry. It's tilting at windmills, really -- and this from someone who built his life around futility.
But whenever I come around here to read the WoW section of this site, I always seem to bump into a post of Zorndorf's that makes me shiver by all its appeals to the majority, paranoia, and sheer condescension. I'm getting the impression of a guy who pretty much gets the run of the WoW forum because he supports the game and therefore must be one of the good guys.
A few people posted in this thread about how he should just stop because he is making a fool of himself and, by extension, of WoW fans here. But based on his actions, there's nothing new to that.
Just consider this thread and the responses Zorndorf posted in it -- as well as the prevalence of the word "vomit". Even lukewarm isn't positive enough when WoW is being discussed.
And while Zorndorf is keen on accusing "WoW haters" of trolling, he has shown perfectly willing to do some trolling of his own in other game sections -- and this from someone who never thought much of Warhammer Online. Other games affected: Age of Conan and, of late, Darkfall.
On top of that, he talks of "WoW hate" while being the first to fan it thanks to posts such as this one. His response to the LOTRO expansion winning a meaningless internet poll here fits in this part, as would this other little post which I will quote directly for the edification of MMORPG readers:
Could you STOP SPAM our Wow threads with hate?
I for one am NOT interested in your views on which game you like more. The shine of AOC was never even there and your behaviour of attacking people who want to post why they love NOT to play Wow does NOT suite me either.
Spam it in the general discussions, like all those other 600 Wow haters.
Why do you even visit these forum but to spit on the game I like to play.
This is a typical Zorndorf comment: Note the "our" when referring to the WoW section of the MMORPG forums, when he's already made it clear that he doesn't trust the MMORPG site, as exemplified by that slight against WOTLK in favour of LOTRO. He wants to confine WoW hate to the general section. He denies others even the slightest ground for liking a game that isn't WoW. And there's probably one "not" too many in the latter part of that third sentence.
While doing this, he turns WoW into an unstoppable juggernaut. Wouldn't players of other games be concerned?
I could go on and on, with more examples and more quotes, but the pattern is clear enough. Now, far from me the idea of trying to censor him, but at one point I am wondering why the community hasn't stood up against the behaviour of this guy. Yes, he supports your game, but he's also making fools of you because most of the people here remain silent while he does it.
In this thread alone, he:
Now why has he been allowed to bully his way across these forums unhindered?
In a way, I pity him. Especially since he stated in his thread that he was attending university around the time of my birth. It's already tough for me to imagine a 50-year-old man behave like this; it's even tougher to see him squander all his energy on a damn game (any title, not just WoW) that nobody will remember 5 years after the servers have shut down. With the little time on this earth that we're given, I'd like to think I'd sooner spend time trying to leave a trace of my presence, contribute something to society, do anything except waste countless hours and days and months on a bunch of pixels that in the end mean nothing whatsoever. The only people building their posterity out of games are those who make them, not those who play them, no matter how much of a sense of achievement those players might get. In the words of Napoleon Bonaparte, "glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever". To the guys at Blizzard, you're just $15, and nothing more.
Yes, Zorndorf, I pity you, even though I'm perfectly aware that you couldn't care less.
Hi guys, my first post ever in this forum. I want to apologize for my (maybe, I guess ^^') bad english since it is not my first language. I also apologize if I'll write to much but who knows? Maybe I won't add many other posts after this
I have read the OP (open poster? hehe) first post and I spent a few hours of my life reading all the pages of this thread. I found many points of wiew very interesting, tough different. The discussion caught my interest that much as I decided to create my own account and throw in my two cents on the matter.
I played many online games. UO, DAoC, Lineage2, Ragnarok Online, City of Heroes, Eve, FFXI, Silk Road, I can lose my mind thinking about the other minor games... and I played each of these long enough to qualify myself as a veteran, or I do have friends that has shown me many things, or whom I've talked with about these games for days and days, discussing about differences, +s and -s of every game we played or were trying out.
I also played (and play right now) World of Warcraft, I have a level 80 Druid (Elsarin, Moonglade EU RP Realm) and other characters that I don't feel like listing here.
A friend of mine and I usually discuss specifically about WoW, and even tho he agrees with me when I say WoW is one of the best games around the mmorpg market, he personally dislikes it and quitted with the convinction he knows everything about WoW, after having hit just lvl 67 (when level cap was 70, during Burning Crusade expansion). When I was at level 67 I had pretty much his own knowledge of the game, and I can swear to you, Vetarnias, I would have thought exactly like him (or you) if I did not hit the level cap and tried end game content. I WAS like you and like him too, so I used to think alike as well.
I started a character during WoW open beta, then quitted, tried it again after a few months, did another account (wich is the one I still use, right now) and leveled up to 60 when 60 was the max level.
I quitted the game because it was like you described it, a grinding without end, a fight to earn your pieces of gear, or your pvp title. Back then it was a hard game. It was challenging, yes, even tho there were games that would require more time off you, and even more patience. I wiped with my party so many times in the first phases of the game and I lost count of the times I died during my lvl 60 runs. I did lot of pvp and earned my rank, yet I was never able to get the max ranking, wich would require an endless farming of the PvP battlegrounds someone else before me spoke about. Yet, I gained most fun not from endgame content, but from leveling. I am a Warcraft fan, as I played it since when I was a kid, and World of Warcraft gave me the chance to explore the lands of Azeroth and feel the lore not as a "god moving soldiers from the above" but actually partecipating, as a living character created by myself. The quests were cool, reading them and completing them would help me to sink even more in what seemed to me like an endless pot of lore.
Well, I think this is questionable, hehe, many dislike Warcraft lore, but what can I say? I'm a fan after all! I liked a lot everything about exploring new places and doing quests. Sure, there were the "gather 15 scorpion tail" and "gather 3 stacks of rat hides" quests, but many other were very nice ones, like when they gave you a riddle and you had to discover where to get the dwarf the materials he needed to craft a something he would then give you, or when you had to escort the guy that would fall asleep every 2 minutes, he was a pain in the ass and it would make me angry, but just thinking about it makes me smile, right now
In the end, it was fun doing it, and it's fun thinking about those old days. Anyway, it ruined my fun when having nothing else to do at lvl 60 kinda made my character progression starve. I didn't care about rolling an alt, nor I had interest in gaining money, I was fed off by pvp already and raiding was too difficult for me because I was unlucky and could not find a guild I liked.
But, I never said WoW sucks or anything, I still used to say it was the best game around, I just got tired of it. And in fact, I quitted. I decided to pay my monthly fee again when TBC was released. I played TBC with my girlfriend and old friends of mine (one of them is that guy I mentioned earlier) and we went up together trough the grinding, 'till me and he got fed off again. It was lvl 67 btw. I enjoyed a lot TBC because, as I said, being a fan of Warcraft, I loved the strategy games and felt enthusiastic about linking the facts in warcraft II with those of TBC, both taking place in Outland. I was overjoyed when I walked trough Honor Hold, thinking: "Wow, these soldiers endured Outland till now? But I thought they were dead after the Dark Portal collpased in Warcraft II final mission, and wow, they got old, they were sieged by demons for 20 yeards, and yet they and their hold still stands here in the nowhere, surrounded by enemies!" and all epic stuff like that. You know, when you are a fan, you get caught by these things! xD Again, what did enjoyed me the most? Questing, seeing the world, exploring and staying with my friends, until I got bored again because of other RL interests and various other problems.
The last time I decided to get my account and play again was when my girlfriend told me: "Hey, I wanted to play again, I hit 70, I joined a guild and we're doing a lot of fun things!" and I answered something like "Nah, sorry, can't be bothered, I quitted, and anyway I was already 67, what else could be there? Just a few things, can't be really bothered." And well, she FORCED ME to play with her (you know how these things work, hehe) but I soon felt it was a good idea once i started endgame content with her and our guild. I can state that raiding was a complete different game than doing quests or pvp. Even end game istances were on another level of gameplay, they required actual skill to get them done, especially when you hadn't the best equip for that level. You had to put effort in it, know what skill use and when to use it. Especially in raid, you had to move a lot, stay in certain places to avoid certain skills, know what would a boss do, and when it would do it, and on who... You had to read trough tactics or find them by yourself after many tries... and the more I raided, the more I had to improve my gamestyle to keep the pace with the difficulty increase, and the more I went up the ladder of guild improvement, the more I witnessed with my eyes how much WoW had still to offer me, when I thought I had seen everything, I was barely at 10% of the whole. This proved to me that somehow I never had experienced endgame, even tho I already hit a cap (lvl 60 during classic wow) and 67 (during first weaks of TB release).
This is why people in this thread, and perhaps in all World of Warcraft threads are so different in their positions. From one side many that never tried endgame or act like they did to make themselves look knowledgeable, from the other side people that actually played it (and I mean played it seriously, raiding and stuff, seeing the true endgame and not just hitting the cap) and maybe tested on themselves what means playing a "different game". I made this idea long before Wrath of the Lich King came out. The idea of WoW and endgame-WoW being two different games. I cannot stress enough the importance of "Try endgame content before judge a game" sentence, I would not know how else put it. And up 'till now I didn't took into consideration WotKL.
Ok, TBC starts to grow boring, I raided, I PVPed, I begin thinking that I'm tired of farming for gear and I'm tired of wiping in certain raid boss'fights my guild can't beat, when WotLK is finally released. I can guarantee everyone of you that I didn't expect myself to be THAT impressed. So much that I thought "Time to open my eyes, the game before today was worthless". WotLK was really THAT good for me that it was like a fresh breeze after a long walk into the desert. And I don't want to list everything added with the last expansion, because this post is already long and I do not find a technical list of adds relevant. What I want to say is that Blizzard was able to refresh my interest toward the game many times, with many patches that added many things, both to the new contents, both to the old game, and I'm talking about the talent specialization rewamps (that lets you play a class you already played with another different flavour), the new Achievement system (wich give little rewards, but it's a fun thing to do per se, because it's just fun to have always something new to try to do), the renewed Graphic Interface (always modern and full of options and so many customs to let you play with your own style). Sure, maybe other games have these features or similar, but I didn't see any game that beats WoW in care for the details, updates, care for its community (wich is both game development and technical assistance).
Don't you think these aren't minor things? From my experience in mmorpgs, I haven't seen many games that revamp an old interface adding new stuff to make the game at pace with time or user tastes. Let's just say that Blizzard forums are overflowd with people, both noobs and pros, that ask for changes and wow, they're listened! Blizzard developers answer themselves to the players and work with them to improve the game mechanics. I can say that maybe a few milions of players think that WoW was made in part by them too.
I want to end this post by adding that I did not want to look arrogant or offensive, I read every post in this thread and I wanted to tell you guys about my own experience, wich I find important and valuable since I know better than you all if WoW was fun or not for me :P WoW has a grinding and farm mechanic, yes, but I'd rather say: MMORPGS have a farming and grinding mechanic. WoW has little depth maybe, but many other mmorpgs if none could add more than WoW had and still have to offer to its players. As many already said, perfection doesn't exist, but theer are models that try to get close to perfection as more as possible. WoW is the game that most earned the title of best game. The fact that 11m people love and play it is not an absolute truth, nor the fact that nowaday many mmorpgs try to copy from WoW its features (and still fail because they aren't WoW), yet they are RELEVANT truths. I'd take them into consideration if we were to argue about what's the best game around basing our judgement on these criteria.
But your point, Vetarnias, wasn't even about that. You just told us why you didn't like WoW. I respect and appreciate your opinion and I agree on almost everything you said. Just, I can say with 100% confidence, that your judgement is closed to the lvl 46 game experience, and is also limited to your little real time gaming experience. You had not the chance to see how WoW started and how improved, you hadn't the chance to see new content added for lowbies too and probably you also were unlucky. Experience in the end is what matters. You just hadn't good experiences in WoW, thus your decision to leave it and judge it for what you thought you knew. I'll tell to you what I told my friend and what was told to me: you know almost nothing of WoW. Nor does your lvl 78 friend.
Leveling is fun, if you like quests and leveling, but even if you dislike them, they are practice from when the real game will start. I personally think that if you knew what lies ahead, you'd appreciate that leveling more, and perhaps you and someone else would have reckoned that "killing 15 scoprions" wasn't just wasted time, but a school about how to play your character. When you were poisoned for the 41th time already, you earned some practice into dispelling yourself or a party member. Maybe, when fighting a boss with heavy poison skills, you would have been the key character that brings victory to the raid, with your astounding poison-dispelling skills, heheheh xD That would have made you think: "Damn, these damn scorpions taught me something, to hell with that quest tho! XD"
I play WoW from 4 years, since its very european launch, I quitted and always came back to try the new stuff. Yet, I think I still don't know everything myself about this game. It's just too big and full of stuff to do. Maybe I'm too much of a fan? Heh, who knows, maybe my judgement is clouded, but I had and I'm having so much fun, that playing and being a fan are just good to me right now :P
Sure, there are many things I want to talk about but since it would really take me forever to write them all, especially after a whole night reading and writing, it would kill my head, hehe, and even tho I'd like to add more I'll just quit with my greetings to everyone. What's important, guys, is having fun, and maybe socialize a bit wit these useless forums able to keep people awake for all the night!
Byeeeeez! ^__^//
PS: I wanna really see this guy flying with haxxorz, please find me in moonglade and warp to me, possibly not while I'm raiding with other 24 friends! I'm a healer and I must focus on my 5 parties! 25 people are difficult to handle, even if I have help from the other healers! *__*
Wow, woo, you guys are getting really emotional. Its a game, everyone is entitled to love it or hate it, but none can bring it to the graveyard. You will have to leave it somewhere, before bedtime, during bathes and maybe after WoW shut down their servers years later. In short, no need be personal.
As a clarification, I play WoW, I also play other games, and I do not spend my life 24/7 on any games or any activities. Too much to do during the moments I am awake.
I respect and enjoy WoW for what it is. Its is not a PhD study. I have my pile of books for my PhD days. The depth, the seriousness, they are not in WoW. I use, yes use, WoW for lightheared moments of my life, when I want to stop thinking how a certain index behaves during different moments of a trade cycle. When I go to the AH in WoW, I just buy something I fancy, without running 40 simultaneous equations to guestimate the potential IRR of that invesment. Pun intended.
WoW is a game, you make use of to enjoy a few hours or minutes of login. Its done and gone the moment you logout, you go afk for something else or when the server is down for maintenance. It need not be played in any specific way, unless you want to do it that way and you enjoy it. I never understand why ppl hate the moments they spent in WoW, that sounds like a weak will. These ppl sounds like addicts blaming a product, for their inability to exercise control and stay out.
If you enjoyed WoW during the hours you spend, WoW did its work. Once WoW ceased to be the best way of spending your next minute, you should move on. No need to stay online, no need to stay online in a specific gamemode. If ret paly hurts your brain, respec to holy or prot, level a druid or go play basketball. Why suffer, moan and groan while staying online as a ret paly? WHY?
Do not blame WoW for not meeting your needs. If it never make you feel happy, you should never have subscribed. If your affection of WoW faded eventually, then you already have your share of fun, and you should move on. WoW is a mass consumption good, make for a lot of ppl and not tailor made for you. If it serves a wide spectrum, it does it work. When a TV program becomes boring for you, what do you do? Change channel or drive to the TV station throwing bombs at them?
For me it is very simple - I have had enough of WoW because WotLK brought nothing new to the table. Just more of the same. It is a classic line extension product - just like TBC in relationship to vanilla - and since WoW has no sand-box elements the feeling of 'new' becomes extremely important for the product.
My feelings for WoW nowdays has nothing to do with the inherit quality of the product though. It is a great fantasy PvE MMO and it is the first game I would recommend to someone new to MMOs.
As a side note: There was a small attack on Zorndorf. The oddest thing with Zorndorf is that the same person has used roughly 10 aliases to write support for WoW on these forums (are the other accounts banned?). Always a vast amount of posts/time unit, always the same person, different aliases and always 100% supportive of WoW (regardless of discussion topic). My sense is that there is a payed Blizzard/Vivendi guy somewhere employed for viral marketing. And that is truly truly sad given the inherit qualities that WoW actually has.
Yeah, we are ALL duplicates of one another, all 11.500.000.
The ultimate argument.
11.500.000!!! LOL there goes zorndorf again
If the OP had invested as much time as the time he spend in insulting a player who likes to play Wow, he should have known the mechanics of Wow better.
Insulting a player? No. If you're referring to my latest post above, I've just compiled some of your Greatest Hits in one convenient entry.
Adding elements as tickets of proof of purchase and "getting" a virgin first post here to give more "credit" to his lvl 46 experience (that last trick was a real laugh) shows the man is investing a WHOLE lot of energy in hating Wow and so called justifying his reasoning.
The only reason why I bothered to post my proof of purchase is because you directly claimed that I had played on a free account. But as that accusation obviously can't stick anymore, you make it vanish and now you're just blaming me for the steps I've taken towards disproving it. Very, very nice; first time I actually see that trick in action, but I can't say I'm surprised. If you make accusations against me that I can disprove, I still have that right, don't I?
And are you still claiming Murdyll is a fraud instead of a bona fide player, and that all the evidence I've given you about him still isn't enough? The word paranoia comes to mind, because frankly I'm getting to the conclusion that regardless of what I'd show you -- enough screenshots to make an animation film, etc -- you'd still not believe it.
Far more than I would do for a game I wouldn't have liked.
Should I count your Warhammer Online and Conan posts? But frankly, it's not worth it.
So stop playing "the game" of being just an honest trying player. You waited 4 years to begin play, then with a LOT of reluctancy you try just enough of this game to post dozens of hate threads against it and a few defenders.
Dozens of hate threads? I've never started a thread here outside of this one, and I'm pretty sure I've never posted more than a dozen posts in other WoW threads apart from this one. And inside this thread, I won't bother counting, but the vast majority of my posts came as rebuttals of your own ravings and accusations. I can see myself having a pleasant conversation with Pappy over a few of the points he's raised, but you're all about distortions and innuendo. I wouldn't discount the possibility that you're just trying to get this thread locked so that it would vanish from sight and return "your" WoW forums to unperturbed Cheeryland.
Also, have you been reading nothing of what I posted in this thread, apart from what you could twist or dismiss (such as a $50 figure which was nothing more than approximative in the first place)? I specifically stated already that (1) the computer I had in 2004 couldn't have run WoW, and that I was still on dialup; (2) that I only bought my next computer in 2007; (3) that I disliked picking up games in midstream (as though that were a crime not to start with WoW, regardless of what my interests were at the time). So to recap, I couldn't have been able to play WoW until 2007, three years after release, and I was reluctant to start a game with already so much mileage behind it, out of fear that the geopolitical struggle might be stagnant, but also that it might be well past its prime, with Shadowbane being the exception because it was free to play by that point.
And I really have to put this to you: Why didn't you ask why I hadn't started playing MMOs with any of the MMO's of 2003-2004 still around, EverQuest 2, FF XI, or EVE? Would you have been blaming me if I had gone to any of those older games first? Why does it have to be absolutely WoW? Because it has subscription figures twice the population of Scotland? And what about my own interests amidst all that? Am I even allowed to play a nautical game like PotBS, or a low-fantasy world like AoC, in your book?
Wow is a very good game and if you don't like it, stop assaulting its Wow forums and players.
Look at yourself first.
Since when is there a relationship between you and your multiple accounts, and the fact that WoW has a large player base? That was possibly the weakest attempt at response I have seen on a public forum.
As I stated WoW is over for me but I think it is an ace product. What your agenda is with multiple accounts rehashing the same basic arguments over and over without even an attempt at discussing WoW (pros/cons) is a completely different topic. And given the frequency of posts from you and the close to standardized argumentation it is not far fetched to question your credibility as a common gamer out there.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=38473390
As improbable as it might seem, I'm defending Zorndorf here. He is far too passionate and vindictive to be a Blizzard shill. Someone hired by Blizzard would actually try to offer counter-arguments instead of nitpicking on whether someone paid $50 and in which currency, alienating two non-US markets in the process by suggesting their currencies were small potatoes.
However, if he is indeed a shill, I have just one thing to say: Here's to Zorndorf, the World's Worst Viral Marketer.
As improbable as it might seem, I'm defending Zorndorf here. He is far too passionate and vindictive to be a Blizzard shill. Someone hired by Blizzard would actually try to offer counter-arguments instead of nitpicking on whether someone paid $50 and in which currency, alienating two non-US markets in the process by suggesting their currencies were small potatoes.
However, if he is indeed a shill, I have just one thing to say: Here's to Zorndorf, the World's Worst Viral Marketer.
blizzard is paying him. with jars of beer
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=38473390
I just do not know what you are actually arguing about. I stated you have multiple accounts on various forums and hence it has nothing to do with the amount of accounts you have or do not have in the game. And since you are the only one to know why you rehash so much PR material across multiple forum accounts and forums you would be better off answering the question why you do just that. Are you payed to do it?
If you see my posts they consist of a few elements:
- I think WoW is an ace game. It is the game I have played the most of any computer game (200 days played including alts and I slowed down significantly at the beginning of TBC (and yes I have two level 80s since I wanted to see if WotLK added something that was refreshing - and I found the best single player/co-op quests in any game but basically zero reason (for me) to play at level 80).
- WoW is no longer the game for me (see reasons above)
- I visit the WoW forums because it is the game I have played the most and wish that Blizzard would put some of the profits they make into novel and new content but they are obviously spend elsewhere
- if someone is new to MMOs, WoW is the game I would recommend as a great starting point since it is very soft when it comes to the MMO part
How this transforms into something very negative about WoW is beyond me. So the fact that your conclusion from these statements is that I am a WoW hater speaks more about you and your attitude to discussion that my emotions about WoW.
you are lucky I'm not a mod or you would very soon find your account locked just by the things you have said in this thread. fortunately for you I am not, so lets move on. what is the difference between a "virgin poster" and 1 that has done over 1000 posts here? nothing whatsoever. I have only recently joined these forums but considering I have played wow almost daily since the start of TBC, I can hardly be called a noob. the OP made a post, stating why he quit wow and where its faults lie (no game is perfect after all), in the hope that someone will see it and maybe it will get to blizzard and they will do something about it (unlikely but its worth a try). nowhere in his post did he say "wow is shit, I hate wow, all of you are idiots for playing it, blizzard is corrupting the mmorpg genre". therefore you had no need to comment on his "expertiese" in wow, or anything else that is none of your business.
still, I doubt this thread will survive for much longer, but in future, please treat the other posters with a little more civility than you have shown.
F*** you and the horse you rode in on, Zorndorf.