Why do people prefer tab-targetting?

Phertias

In the recent years where action combat has taken more and more hold in the new games coming, all I keep seeing is the same "The combat in this game sucks" for games that actually implement working action combat. 

Whether its TSW, GW2, WS, Tera or a bunch of other MMORPGs, if you scim through the comments, you always find that a major part of the people leaving the games to play WoD or Final Fantasy instead because "the combat suck" 

So why do people prefer tab-targetting? I´m personally a huge fan of action-combat and I believe that games like Tera and WS have made perfect action combat to their respective games, so Im unable to put my mind to why tab-targetting should be preferred. Would anyone dare to explain why? 

And I know a lot of comments will be like "Because it was poor implement" or "Not well designed", but to be fair, I dont think its possible to make better action combat than what the 2 above mentioned games have made. 

So please, enlighten me. Whats the catch of tab-targetting?

 

azzamasin

Because their first MMO was tab target and it is their preference. 

 

I myself prefer Action even though my first MMO was tab target.  Still though, I prefer being entertained and engaged.  My only wish for MMORPG.com's forum posters is to not begrudge preference of others by calling Action combat trash or meant for consoles when the overwhelming majority prefers a more action combat experience.  As evident by MMO's being the smallest market base in the genre.  When you compare it to other genres like MOBA's and FPS's which coincidentally enough features more action combat.

Salute

Originally posted by DMKano
One hand gameplay.

+1

Plus because ppl also like more the fluff content like pet battles, farms, garrisons and other <facebook> activities, than real challenging content.

Zorgo

For me the entire idea of playing a role playing game is to play the role of a character who has abilities beyond that of a mere mortal, or at least has the potential to develop skills beyond that of a mere mortal. 

When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player. Combat becomes based solely on what I can physically do, rather than what a character I have developed can do. No matter how much gear, how many levels I have gained, my combat skill is still based solely what I at the age of 43 can do with my personal hand-eye abilities.

Therefore, I do not find myself immersed in a role I have assumed, but rather continually feel frustrated at my personal abilities. 

Action combat is great in some instances, but, the reason I like tab targeting is essentially the same reason I prefer playing pnp dnd over actually combatting someone with a sword and shield, like SCA members for example.

Truth is, I actually like both, but it depends on the game and my mood. When I want to test my own prowess, I play action combat. When I want to immerse myself in a role, I play tab targeting.

k11keeper

I, like many, was first an RPG player before becoming and MMO player. Back then RPGs were almost all turn based. Then I moved into MMO and they were tab targeting. If I wanted to have my twitch/aiming skills be a factor I would just go back to playing FPS games (I was way into Unreal tournament at one point). When it comes to active aiming/dodging or whatever you want to call it FPS games are far and away ahead of any MMO with that sort of system. 

 

Herzy

Originally posted by DMKano
One hand gameplay. It's important for many gamers. You can eat a tasty Taco Bell burrito and play with one hand. Those with big hands could eat a double patty burger and play.

+1

If I had a dime every time someone I played with told me they were half paying attention to whatever we were doing (raiding, dungeons, you name it) and watching TV/ doing work on the second monitor/ etc. 

Adjuvant1

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6537803#6537803

deniter

Originally posted by Zorgo

For me the entire idea of playing a role playing game is to play the role of a character who has abilities beyond that of a mere mortal, or at least has the potential to develop skills beyond that of a mere mortal. 

When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player. Combat becomes based solely on what I can physically do, rather than what a character I have developed can do. No matter how much gear, how many levels I have gained, my combat skill is still based solely what I at the age of 43 can do with my personal hand-eye abilities.

Therefore, I do not find myself immersed in a role I have assumed, but rather continually feel frustrated at my personal abilities. 

Action combat is great in some instances, but, the reason I like tab targeting is essentially the same reason I prefer playing pnp dnd over actually combatting someone with a sword and shield, like SCA members for example.

Truth is, I actually like both, but it depends on the game and my mood. When I want to test my own prowess, I play action combat. When I want to immerse myself in a role, I play tab targeting.

100% agreed!

Tab-targetting is great for mmoRPG. Action combat may work better in mmoFPS or MOBA.

ElirionLoth

I can enjoy both types of combat.  I loved TESO's combat and TERA's combat.  I find a well implemented tab targeting combat system to be fun as well.  By 'well implemented' I mean a system that encourages teamwork.  It is easier, to me, to work together with other players in combat when it has tab targeting.  Action combat tends to turn into an 'everyone for themselves' kind of game.  I really enjoyed FFXI's tab targeting combat.  I felt like FFXIV's tab targeting combat kind of took a step backwards without the skill chain system.  In short, I can enjoy both styles as long as they are implemented well.

Horusra

Action combat makes me think Super Mario....Tab makes me think Final Fantasy.

JayFiveAlive

Action combat pretty much always ends up being people running around like chicken's with their heads cut-off jumping around to try to avoid an easy target and spamming mouse clicks... to me that is not enjoyable in an MMO.

Was going to say DA:I's action was fine, but even they had tab-targetting, though it felt more action-like since you could just hold down the mouse button or R2 to attack with a controller.

Four0Six

I prefer tab targeting for <gasp> role play reasons.

 

BailoPan15

Originally posted by Phertias

In the recent years where action combat has taken more and more hold in the new games coming, all I keep seeing is the same "The combat in this game sucks" for games that actually implement working action combat. 

Whether its TSW, GW2, WS, Tera or a bunch of other MMORPGs, if you scim through the comments, you always find that a major part of the people leaving the games to play WoD or Final Fantasy instead because "the combat suck" 

So why do people prefer tab-targetting? I´m personally a huge fan of action-combat and I believe that games like Tera and WS have made perfect action combat to their respective games, so Im unable to put my mind to why tab-targetting should be preferred. Would anyone dare to explain why? 

And I know a lot of comments will be like "Because it was poor implement" or "Not well designed", but to be fair, I dont think its possible to make better action combat than what the 2 above mentioned games have made. 

So please, enlighten me. Whats the catch of tab-targetting?

 

Gw2 has the best of both worlds really. Most of your skills do not need actual target, they just shoot ahead. 

Also clicking on an enemy and getting their information is the way to go. That's how UI works. 

If i left click somewhere and my toon starts making mumbo jumbo, that's a huge nono. 

Tab target is for when I'm lazy, I just lean back aplay with the keyboard only. 

Games that allow me to obtain a target are a lot more appealing to me, than the ones that dont, e.g. Guild Wars 2. Whether its from tab or click. I don't mind the twitchines, but targetting somebody makes it far more obvious in a crowd to attack

Do you know those green circles at Gw2? Yeah, good luck spiking on someone within a zerg if you have 20 more looking just like the target you want to kill and they are not moving. Huge no no

And it makes zero sense to fight the frontliners in WvW in Gw2. They're probably more tanky than various world bosses in-game. 

Adjuvant1

Originally posted by Horusra
Action combat makes me think Super Mario....Tab makes me think Final Fantasy.

Yeh, heh, with all these "crossover concepts" from fps and platformers to mmos, any day now I expect to see characters able to jump and destroy bricks above their heads, spawning stars, flowers and magic mushrooms. It's not creation of "a new thing", it's rehashing old stuff (jump puzzles, ugh), combining elements to make the veneer of doing something new or adding something fun.

nariusseldon

says who?

I prefer action combat like that in D3.

Torcip

I swear, it's like you people don't know what personal opinion and preference is anymore. What you say has to be true because everyone else is must be wrong, this isn't how the world works.

falconhand

I know my limitations Getting close to 50 years, hand eye coordination getting less with the years. We tried ESO but it was just to much work to hit targets, so back to the tab target easy fighting system from wow and swtor. Do not forget the early mmo like daoc etc are getting older

Four0Six

Originally posted by Adjuvant1

Originally posted by Horusra
Action combat makes me think Super Mario....Tab makes me think Final Fantasy.

Yeh, heh, with all these "crossover concepts" from fps and platformers to mmos, any day now I expect to see characters able to jump and destroy bricks above their heads, spawning stars, flowers and magic mushrooms. It's not creation of "a new thing", it's rehashing old stuff (jump puzzles, ugh), combining elements to make the veneer of doing something new or adding something fun.

 

Jumping and destroying blocks...Like Voxels....EQNext sounds like it will deliver.

Adjuvant1

Originally posted by Four0Six

Originally posted by Adjuvant1

Originally posted by Horusra
Action combat makes me think Super Mario....Tab makes me think Final Fantasy.

Yeh, heh, with all these "crossover concepts" from fps and platformers to mmos, any day now I expect to see characters able to jump and destroy bricks above their heads, spawning stars, flowers and magic mushrooms. It's not creation of "a new thing", it's rehashing old stuff (jump puzzles, ugh), combining elements to make the veneer of doing something new or adding something fun.

 

Jumping and destroying blocks...Like Voxels....EQNext sounds like it will deliver.

Yeh, I'm excited for EQN because of storybricks and talking trash about it trips my trigger, but even as I typed that it raised that spectre in my own mind. Guess we'll see.

sylentnyte

I like to feel like my character is doing the work

SuperDonk

Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.

 

So far, in my opinion, ridicule targeting mmos have been shallow, bunny hoping, button smashers with little to no depth. At least with my tab target mmos I get more than a handful of skills.

 

There is a place in gaming for twitchy mmos, but it is obvious they are not as popular. As long as they stay in their corner, I don't mind them being made, in fact I think they should be for the fans of those kind of games. Just don't be upset that I don't want to play your bunny hop-fest.

 

Also, hacking is an big issue with games that require aiming. 

laokoko

aim bot.

I think any games which require any kind of aiming are suspectible of aim bot.

Quizzical

There are basically three types of combat that I'm against:

1)  Combat that requires aggressive mouse usage and is basically a repetitive strain injury waiting to happen

2)  Combat that involves the player fighting more with the camera or the control scheme than with the mobs that are the ostensible enemy

3)  Boring combat where you mostly just sit there waiting for it to be over and don't really need to pay attention beyond pressing the same sequence of buttons every time

The problem with non-tab-targeting combat in some games is that it degenerates into either (1) or (2).  First person shooters are likely to have a bad case of (1).  Good examples of (2) are WildStar and TERA--though WildStar is a tab-targeting game.

But tab-targeting combat too often degenerates into (3).  Runescape is the worst example I've seen of it, though Anarchy Online was also very bad.  FFXIV and WoW have enough of a case of (3) to be a problem.

But tab-target combat doesn't have to turn into (3).  Guild Wars 1 and 2 are good examples of this, as is Champions Online.

And non-tab-target combat doesn't have to turn into (1) or (2).  Spiral Knights and Infantry both had excellent combat, even if they're arguably not really MMOs.  Neverwinter combat also works pretty well without tab targeting, though it sometimes makes it nearly impossible to target minions near a boss.  I don't think Neverwinter's combat would be meaningfully worse if it were tab-target, but Spiral Knights and Infantry sure would have been worse with tab targeting.

Tab-target combat can be done well or badly, as can non-tab-target combat.  If combat targeting isn't based on selecting a mob to attack, then it has to be based on something else.  What the something else is matters a lot.

So the question of whether I prefer tab-targeting depends on the alternatives.  I rather suspect that I'm not the only one.

Scorchien

Originally posted by SuperDonk

Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.

 

So far, in my opinion, ridicule targeting mmos have been shallow, bunny hoping, button smashers with little to no depth. At least with my tab target mmos I get more than a handful of skills.

 

There is a place in gaming for twitchy mmos, but it is obvious they are not as popular. As long as they stay in their corner, I don't mind them being made, in fact I think they should be for the fans of those kind of games. Just don't be upset that I don't want to play your bunny hop-fest.

 

Also, hacking is an big issue with games that require aiming. 

  I agree with this  to some degree for sure , altho i enjoy both types of combat i dont like action combat  in my MMOs( definitley prefer Tab) , i do enjoy Action Combat  in D3 and Hand of Fate for ex.. ( Great 3d card rogue like btw)  But in MMos the erhmm classes feel classless .. not enough defining them at all imo .. and they all feel quite the same just different bloom and effects on the limited skills provivded to the generic classless system these types of Action MMOs provide..

Kyleran

It doesn't feel very realistic to bunny hop, dodge and roll in a Star Destroyer.

Come to think of it, those actions don't feel very natural in plate armor either.

I don't even comprehend the term  "tab targeting really", I always select my targets manually, never use the tab button.

Also, games like DAOC had blocks, parry's, side and rear positionals, all while having /face and /stick commands as well.

What are the advantages of action combat again?

 

ghorgos

Originally posted by Phertias

In the recent years where action combat has taken more and more hold in the new games coming, all I keep seeing is the same "The combat in this game sucks" for games that actually implement working action combat. 

Whether its TSW, GW2, WS, Tera or a bunch of other MMORPGs, if you scim through the comments, you always find that a major part of the people leaving the games to play WoD or Final Fantasy instead because "the combat suck" 

So why do people prefer tab-targetting? I´m personally a huge fan of action-combat and I believe that games like Tera and WS have made perfect action combat to their respective games, so Im unable to put my mind to why tab-targetting should be preferred. Would anyone dare to explain why? 

And I know a lot of comments will be like "Because it was poor implement" or "Not well designed", but to be fair, I dont think its possible to make better action combat than what the 2 above mentioned games have made. 

So please, enlighten me. Whats the catch of tab-targetting?

 

I prefere strategy over reaction skills. Another major point is the preferred class of the player. Action combat can e quite nice for warriors, rangers or rogues but it realy sucks for spellcasters. As a spellcaster i don't want to run around like a wild chicken. More important than movement is the variety of skills and abilities. I wan't them complex with lots of choices to make to choose the right skills for the right situation. I do love buffing(singel and group and choices that matter not just a passive or one-click and forget buff), cc(yeah mezzing 10+ mobs in EQ2 was fun once you actualy found your strategy of keeping them under control), debuffs(and situations where they are good and other where it is a wasted spell) and all thoose situational spells that should make the difference between the good and the bad player(i can play an fps if i want reaction time to matter). The first thing action combat does is trivialize any magic system. I haven't even seen a single-player rpg with action combat that didn't ruined mages for the sake of the combat system. It gets even worse if you move further towrds action. Suddenly even a mage is supposed to use melee-combat actions to trigger spell-effects and projectiles are forced on spells that in theory don't need a projectile(means action combat does detroy immersion of spellcasters for me).