Clickers and long time EQ/WoW prefer tab target. I was like them once I faulted TERA because it didn't have WoW controls. Those players have to relearn how to control their toon.
Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.
So far, in my opinion, ridicule targeting mmos have been shallow, bunny hoping, button smashers with little to no depth. At least with my tab target mmos I get more than a handful of skills.
There is a place in gaming for twitchy mmos, but it is obvious they are not as popular. As long as they stay in their corner, I don't mind them being made, in fact I think they should be for the fans of those kind of games. Just don't be upset that I don't want to play your bunny hop-fest.
Also, hacking is an big issue with games that require aiming.
A block button solves the bunny hopping issue. W/o one bunny hopping and circle strafing is all you can do.
Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.
So far, in my opinion, ridicule targeting mmos have been shallow, bunny hoping, button smashers with little to no depth. At least with my tab target mmos I get more than a handful of skills.
There is a place in gaming for twitchy mmos, but it is obvious they are not as popular. As long as they stay in their corner, I don't mind them being made, in fact I think they should be for the fans of those kind of games. Just don't be upset that I don't want to play your bunny hop-fest.
Also, hacking is an big issue with games that require aiming.
I agree with this to some degree for sure , altho i enjoy both types of combat i dont like action combat in my MMOs( definitley prefer Tab) , i do enjoy Action Combat in D3 and Hand of Fate for ex.. ( Great 3d card rogue like btw) But in MMos the erhmm classes feel classless .. not enough defining them at all imo .. and they all feel quite the same just different bloom and effects on the limited skills provivded to the generic classless system these types of Action MMOs provide..
I play action games too. I love Grand Theft Auto Online, TF2, and like you D3.
Just not a fan of it in MMOs. Mostly because every one I have experienced has been severely lacking in fun. MMORPG's are, in my opinion, are about character development and group strategy. Twitch combat is about how much caffeine you have and your connection speed or if you just want to play a game that does not require much prep or thought, like GTA Online.
For me the entire idea of playing a role playing game is to play the role of a character who has abilities beyond that of a mere mortal, or at least has the potential to develop skills beyond that of a mere mortal.
When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player. Combat becomes based solely on what I can physically do, rather than what a character I have developed can do. No matter how much gear, how many levels I have gained, my combat skill is still based solely what I at the age of 43 can do with my personal hand-eye abilities.
Therefore, I do not find myself immersed in a role I have assumed, but rather continually feel frustrated at my personal abilities.
Action combat is great in some instances, but, the reason I like tab targeting is essentially the same reason I prefer playing pnp dnd over actually combatting someone with a sword and shield, like SCA members for example.
Truth is, I actually like both, but it depends on the game and my mood. When I want to test my own prowess, I play action combat. When I want to immerse myself in a role, I play tab targeting.
Although I can hold my own in action combat games, I have to agree with Zorgo's reasoning here. In an MMORPG I am playing a character that has skills I personally don't have. His success or failure shouldn't be based on my skill at button mashing IMO.
In the recent years where action combat has taken more and more hold in the new games coming, all I keep seeing is the same "The combat in this game sucks" for games that actually implement working action combat.
Whether its TSW, GW2, WS, Tera or a bunch of other MMORPGs, if you scim through the comments, you always find that a major part of the people leaving the games to play WoD or Final Fantasy instead because "the combat suck"
So why do people prefer tab-targetting? I´m personally a huge fan of action-combat and I believe that games like Tera and WS have made perfect action combat to their respective games, so Im unable to put my mind to why tab-targetting should be preferred. Would anyone dare to explain why?
And I know a lot of comments will be like "Because it was poor implement" or "Not well designed", but to be fair, I dont think its possible to make better action combat than what the 2 above mentioned games have made.
So please, enlighten me. Whats the catch of tab-targetting?
Gw2 has the best of both worlds really. Most of your skills do not need actual target, they just shoot ahead.
Seconding this. I have a lot of issues with GW2, but the combat system isn't one of them. It's probably my favorite combat system in the genre, with second place being a tie between Wizard101 and Wakfu.
In the recent years where action combat has taken more and more hold in the new games coming, all I keep seeing is the same "The combat in this game sucks" for games that actually implement working action combat.
Whether its TSW, GW2, WS, Tera or a bunch of other MMORPGs, if you scim through the comments, you always find that a major part of the people leaving the games to play WoD or Final Fantasy instead because "the combat suck"
So why do people prefer tab-targetting? I´m personally a huge fan of action-combat and I believe that games like Tera and WS have made perfect action combat to their respective games, so Im unable to put my mind to why tab-targetting should be preferred. Would anyone dare to explain why?
And I know a lot of comments will be like "Because it was poor implement" or "Not well designed", but to be fair, I dont think its possible to make better action combat than what the 2 above mentioned games have made.
So please, enlighten me. Whats the catch of tab-targetting?
Why does matter to you how other people play games? Are they supposed to be playing the correct way (aka your way?). Why but into other people's business. Play your way.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Because their first MMO was tab target and it is their preference.
I myself prefer Action even though my first MMO was tab target. Still though, I prefer being entertained and engaged. My only wish for MMORPG.com's forum posters is to not begrudge preference of others by calling Action combat trash or meant for consoles when the overwhelming majority prefers a more action combat experience. As evident by MMO's being the smallest market base in the genre. When you compare it to other genres like MOBA's and FPS's which coincidentally enough features more action combat.
This pretty much.
I don't know that I necessarily prefer tab targeting... but I do not mind it. I would not say I prefer the FPS style- but there are times I do not enjoy it..
However, due to the lack of group and community oriented MMOs I typically end up playing a PvP game where I can at least feel as if I am working with a group of people towards some goal. And no matter how much I play, there will always be somebody who is much better than me at targeting.
Also, tab target is easier to deal with when you have issues you may not be able to overcome immediately... slow connection, bad connection, wireless instead of wired, lacking hardware upgrades- low fps etc., players cheating etc. that can cause inaccurate targeting on your screen.
Not to mention I seem to spend more money (or more frequently) on upgrades when I have to manually target in a game than when I have to tab target.
I like tab-targetting for the same reason I enjoy thinking in games. I would much rather single out the one enemy who should die first than mindlessly swing at whatever happens to be in front of me.
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Because my right hand is screwed up from spine damage and the list of games I can play keeps getting smaller as dexterity based gameplay keep shoving its way into more and more games. Even JRPGS have been shvong it in
Because their first MMO was tab target and it is their preference.
One hand gameplay.
When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player.
I, like many, was first an RPG player before becoming and MMO player. Back then RPGs were almost all turn based. Then I moved into MMO and they were tab targeting. If I wanted to have my twitch/aiming skills be a factor I would just go back to playing FPS games
I prefer tab targeting for <gasp> role play reasons.
I like to feel like my character is doing the work
Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.
aim bot.
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.
It doesn't feel very realistic to bunny hop, dodge and roll in a Star Destroyer. Come to think of it, those actions don't feel very natural in plate armor either.
I prefere strategy over reaction skills.
Because it works.
This thread seems to have covered all the bases inside of two pages.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I simply don't care, nor ever will care if a game is tab-target or not.
I do, however, get annoyed with "auto-facing" targets to attack. Long-range classes are way easier to play most of the time in tab games that have auto-facing.
Depends on if I'm playing a game long term or short term. If I'm playing a game long term where I'm grinding dungeons/raids on a weekly basis, then I prefer tab-targetting because its kind of cruise-control and I can accomplish stuff without much stress. If I'm just trying something out or dont play it that often, then action based is ok as an alternative.
Because their first MMO was tab target and it is their preference.
One hand gameplay.
When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player.
I, like many, was first an RPG player before becoming and MMO player. Back then RPGs were almost all turn based. Then I moved into MMO and they were tab targeting. If I wanted to have my twitch/aiming skills be a factor I would just go back to playing FPS games
I prefer tab targeting for role play reasons.
I like to feel like my character is doing the work
Maybe because every "action" mmo I tried felt shallow and catered towards people 20 years younger than me.
aim bot.
Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.
It doesn't feel very realistic to bunny hop, dodge and roll in a Star Destroyer. Come to think of it, those actions don't feel very natural in plate armor either.
I prefere strategy over reaction skills.
Because it works.
This thread seems to have covered all the bases inside of two pages.
Post the question again and let's see if we can get it done in one page.
-It allows for more strategic combat that tends to be slower.
-It allows for more refined CC and Pulling since you can accurately target each mob
-It allows for massive raids that don't end up in zerg, because everyone has a clearly defined role and mobs can be clearly targeted and marked
I don't really dislike action combat, I just don't think a PC is the right machine for it. If I want action combat I use our playstation.
Having played EQ for many years, each time I see an acton MMO, it just looks like a zerg. Each time I see a raid in an action MMO it just looks like a zerg.
The amount of strategy of raids in action MMO is severely lacking, there's very little personal responsability, the raids tend to be small-scale, they tend to just involve avoiding swings of mobs or running in a certain direction.
I personally much prefer that over the console type gameplay of action MMO.
To me action MMO just look like a zergfest without much strategy behind in and very little organisation. The raids I did in action MMO are extremely unsatisfying and console-like instead of epic, they often tend to lack any form of serious CC too.
there is a minority of players who are stuck in their old ways and dont want any change - same same trinity and tab targeting and same game for the next 100years which they will play through in a motnh and than complain there is nothing new to it....
a few things are important here
a) the people that are active in the forums and cry the loudest rarely represent the majority of the gaming population
b) if the majority of games preferred tab targeting, developpers wouldnt move away from it...
Slower gameplay requires greater patience and maturity.
Less twicth requires greater knowledge of ones class
It allows more class skills and deeper class development
Greater tactical and strategic combat
It allows for more difficult large scale raid and dungeon encounters
A more mature playerbase rather than one that needs constant excitement. Leaving the potential of a more mature and stable community
More skills on your combat bar which allows more combat options and more diverse rotations
Some people simply like calmer more thoughtful and tactical combat
Many players especially old time players simply do not like action combat or the players that like to play those games.
i think pretty much all you mentionned besides reaction is purely biassed opinion and has nothing to do with reality - it depends how combat is implemented.... i think your just not objective cause you dont like this style of combat
there is a minority of players who are stuck in their old ways and dont want any change - same same trinity and tab targeting and same game for the next 100years which they will play through in a motnh and than complain there is nothing new to it....
That makes absolutely no sense.
It's the tab target players who sticked with EQ for 15 years and WoW for 10 years and Final Fantasy that tend to stick with games.
Not the people ragequitting action MMO after 2 weeks.
For me it's completely dependent on the mechanics of each option.
Action combat works better, and i prefer it, in PVP. It brings at least some skill to the table.
Action combat absolutely stinks in PVE. I'm a fan of the expanded trinity and how it brings order to a chaotic situation. This is thrown out the window with action combat. Having to dodge every other global is not fun to me and really wears on me during long play sessions. While i still have the twitch skills of someone half my age, i don't find it fun in the long run.
My game-play style preference is group based and trinity based PVE. Action combat severely lacks in this department so i prefer tab-target. Now, if action combat MMO's ever ditch the solo mentality of group mechanics, i'd have no issue giving it a whirl. The only MMO that has come close so far is Wildstar and i still found that subpar.
Comments
A block button solves the bunny hopping issue. W/o one bunny hopping and circle strafing is all you can do.
I play action games too. I love Grand Theft Auto Online, TF2, and like you D3.
Just not a fan of it in MMOs. Mostly because every one I have experienced has been severely lacking in fun. MMORPG's are, in my opinion, are about character development and group strategy. Twitch combat is about how much caffeine you have and your connection speed or if you just want to play a game that does not require much prep or thought, like GTA Online.
Although I can hold my own in action combat games, I have to agree with Zorgo's reasoning here. In an MMORPG I am playing a character that has skills I personally don't have. His success or failure shouldn't be based on my skill at button mashing IMO.
Very good explanation.
Seconding this. I have a lot of issues with GW2, but the combat system isn't one of them. It's probably my favorite combat system in the genre, with second place being a tie between Wizard101 and Wakfu.
Why does matter to you how other people play games? Are they supposed to be playing the correct way (aka your way?). Why but into other people's business. Play your way.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Because it works. Why is this concept so hard to understand? I am seriously baffled by the constant threads about this topic.
Some games have tab-targetting, some games don't.
This pretty much.
I don't know that I necessarily prefer tab targeting... but I do not mind it. I would not say I prefer the FPS style- but there are times I do not enjoy it..
However, due to the lack of group and community oriented MMOs I typically end up playing a PvP game where I can at least feel as if I am working with a group of people towards some goal. And no matter how much I play, there will always be somebody who is much better than me at targeting.
Also, tab target is easier to deal with when you have issues you may not be able to overcome immediately... slow connection, bad connection, wireless instead of wired, lacking hardware upgrades- low fps etc., players cheating etc. that can cause inaccurate targeting on your screen.
Not to mention I seem to spend more money (or more frequently) on upgrades when I have to manually target in a game than when I have to tab target.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
This thread seems to have covered all the bases inside of two pages.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I simply don't care, nor ever will care if a game is tab-target or not.
I do, however, get annoyed with "auto-facing" targets to attack. Long-range classes are way easier to play most of the time in tab games that have auto-facing.
Post the question again and let's see if we can get it done in one page.
-It allows for more strategic combat that tends to be slower.
-It allows for more refined CC and Pulling since you can accurately target each mob
-It allows for massive raids that don't end up in zerg, because everyone has a clearly defined role and mobs can be clearly targeted and marked
I don't really dislike action combat, I just don't think a PC is the right machine for it. If I want action combat I use our playstation.
Having played EQ for many years, each time I see an acton MMO, it just looks like a zerg. Each time I see a raid in an action MMO it just looks like a zerg.
The amount of strategy of raids in action MMO is severely lacking, there's very little personal responsability, the raids tend to be small-scale, they tend to just involve avoiding swings of mobs or running in a certain direction.
I could have explained it in one video.
You don't get this in action MMO, the slow and strategic combat and CC is only possible with a tab-target system:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EdG_uEQhsQ
I personally much prefer that over the console type gameplay of action MMO.
To me action MMO just look like a zergfest without much strategy behind in and very little organisation. The raids I did in action MMO are extremely unsatisfying and console-like instead of epic, they often tend to lack any form of serious CC too.
The argument for Tab target is :
More thought and less reaction or twitch.
Slower gameplay requires greater patience and maturity.
Less twicth requires greater knowledge of ones class
It allows more class skills and deeper class development
Greater tactical and strategic combat
It allows for more difficult large scale raid and dungeon encounters
A more mature playerbase rather than one that needs constant excitement. Leaving the potential of a more mature and stable community
More skills on your combat bar which allows more combat options and more diverse rotations
Some people simply like calmer more thoughtful and tactical combat
Many players especially old time players simply do not like action combat or the players that like to play those games.
there is a minority of players who are stuck in their old ways and dont want any change - same same trinity and tab targeting and same game for the next 100years which they will play through in a motnh and than complain there is nothing new to it....
a few things are important here
a) the people that are active in the forums and cry the loudest rarely represent the majority of the gaming population
b) if the majority of games preferred tab targeting, developpers wouldnt move away from it...
i think pretty much all you mentionned besides reaction is purely biassed opinion and has nothing to do with reality - it depends how combat is implemented.... i think your just not objective cause you dont like this style of combat
That makes absolutely no sense.
It's the tab target players who sticked with EQ for 15 years and WoW for 10 years and Final Fantasy that tend to stick with games.
Not the people ragequitting action MMO after 2 weeks.
For me it's completely dependent on the mechanics of each option.
Action combat works better, and i prefer it, in PVP. It brings at least some skill to the table.
Action combat absolutely stinks in PVE. I'm a fan of the expanded trinity and how it brings order to a chaotic situation. This is thrown out the window with action combat. Having to dodge every other global is not fun to me and really wears on me during long play sessions. While i still have the twitch skills of someone half my age, i don't find it fun in the long run.
My game-play style preference is group based and trinity based PVE. Action combat severely lacks in this department so i prefer tab-target. Now, if action combat MMO's ever ditch the solo mentality of group mechanics, i'd have no issue giving it a whirl. The only MMO that has come close so far is Wildstar and i still found that subpar.