"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
Um... excuse me... pardon me... did you just really say that, "Action Combat is a new standard which you sorely MISS in the MMO's you play?" WTF? There are nearly all MMO's and MMORPGs that are "Action Combat" with PLENTY more on the way in the next year or two. What is missing is any semblance of a new MMORPG with "Traditional Combat." You live under a rock?
I did not even speak against "action combat" in my post to you. You do realize how "off" your post is as a reply to what it was replying to? It does explain why you have no clue as to how available "what you say you like" is.
"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
I don't care what the game was like in the Korean beta. I care what the released game is like today. And today, combat is stupidly easy. They put in all the work to make it so that you can run around and dodge, and then made it so that it doesn't matter because you can just stand there, trade hits, and still win.
Some games take hours or days to get used to the controls, but then it's fine once I get the hang of it. But if controls still feel awkward after a couple of months, I don't think it's because I'm just not used to them yet.
TERA also stands out as being the only game ever to force me to download and install a third-party program made by neither the game vendor nor the gamepad vendor in order to use a gamepad to play the game. Apparently En Masse or Bluehole or someone decided it was a good idea to hard-disable some essential control options unless it detected an Xbox 360 controller. Other controllers need not apply, apparently. So I had to go get software that would tell TERA that I had an Xbox 360 controller plugged in, and then it would let me do the proper control modifications. That the supposed Xbox 360 controller doesn't actually exist in the real world was irrelevant.
"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
You do understand that your experience doesn't invalidate Quiz's experience?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
I don't care what the game was like in the Korean beta. I care what the released game is like today. And today, combat is stupidly easy. They put in all the work to make it so that you can run around and dodge, and then made it so that it doesn't matter because you can just stand there, trade hits, and still win.
I care because what I was getting at was from the first moment I played up to last year when I played the game. I was talking about controls. Here you're talking about combat...? That's pretty shitty if they made things easier. Glad I left.
Some games take hours or days to get used to the controls, but then it's fine once I get the hang of it. But if controls still feel awkward after a couple of months, I don't think it's because I'm just not used to them yet.
TERA also stands out as being the only game ever to force me to download and install a third-party program made by neither the game vendor nor the gamepad vendor in order to use a gamepad to play the game. Apparently En Masse or Bluehole or someone decided it was a good idea to hard-disable some essential control options unless it detected an Xbox 360 controller. Other controllers need not apply, apparently. So I had to go get software that would tell TERA that I had an Xbox 360 controller plugged in, and then it would let me do the proper control modifications. That the supposed Xbox 360 controller doesn't actually exist in the real world was irrelevant.
Ahhh...here we go. You were talking about controls of a gamepad. Or did you also use mouse and keyboard to play? I only played with m+k and that's why I wanted to share my side.
I did know a couple of people that played with a controller. I asked them often how it was and no complaints from them (at the time).
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Herzy
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
You do understand that your experience doesn't invalidate Quiz's experience?
...
I'm not allowed to post a differing experience on mmorpg.com anymore? Got it.
I grew up on Quake, Quakeworld, Quake 2/3 and Unreal Tournament - I now also play MMO's.
People who talk about MMO's as some type of competitive PvP game are kidding themselves. If you want to test your skill against a single player or team (as in CTF) play an FPS (NOT CS or COD etc. they are a spray gun joke). Don't waste you time trying to argue that MMO's should have some type of semi-half arsed aiming system that makes you FEEL like you are aiming.
The whole twitch terminology was invented by people with shithouse aims to make themselves feel good about how bad they are at aiming. Did I get the odd twitch hit? for sure but over all I was better at holding a lightning gun over a target while it runs/jumps around than most.
MMO's are casual hobbies that can be played with half the attention and should be left that way rather than modifying them to be some fake arsed imaginary aiming game because of some audience that is half way between the skill required to play a real aiming FPS competitively and a pseudo feel good pretend aim MMO.
Terra combat sucks because of the anim lock not because its action based. ESO is my favourite style but consider not everyone wants to have to strain and concentrate when they play. Tab target grinding is quite a pleasant meditative game, a bit like the pokies or that Japanese ball bearing game.
I grew up on Quake, Quakeworld, Quake 2/3 and Unreal Tournament - I now also play MMO's.
People who talk about MMO's as some type of competitive PvP game are kidding themselves. If you want to test your skill against a single player or team (as in CTF) play an FPS (NOT CS or COD etc. they are a spray gun joke). Don't waste you time trying to argue that MMO's should have some type of semi-half arsed aiming system that makes you FEEL like you are aiming.
The whole twitch terminology was invented by people with shithouse aims to make themselves feel good about how bad they are at aiming. Did I get the odd twitch hit? for sure but over all I was better at holding a lightning gun over a target while it runs/jumps around than most.
MMO's are casual hobbies that can be played with half the attention and should be left that way rather than modifying them to be some fake arsed imaginary aiming game because of some audience that is half way between the skill required to play a real aiming FPS competitively and a pseudo feel good pretend aim MMO.
To this, I'd argue there are many kinds of skills in our real lives. Some people have an affinity for number crunching. Some people have above average social skills. Some people are competent, confident decision makers. It's easy to discount them if you don't consider them, only focusing on the situational awareness and reflex coordination. Some people are very good at mmos before the twitch people even walk in the room. Visceral cunning may win you battles, but when you step out of combat, you've lost the war. That's the thing about mmos and why they appeal to so many people.
edit:
Isn't that a bad paraphrase? Takes reference from 3 different chapters.
I did not like Tera combat because of the interface that changed to another when in combat and you had to get out of combat to do other things and it locked you in a position while the animation played out. Plus the quests were horrid. It was not the action combat that was fine it was the way they did it.
The only game whose action combat I disliked and it actually gave me physical discomfort was Wildstar. ESO has some issue with camera angles which I hope can be fixed.
I generally do not use tab target I click on a target often even in FFXIV and GW 2 was very easy to get used to and there were no issues there. I would say I could strafe and fire my bow with no problem. I use a programmable mouse so it was even easier to play GW2. Found the game bland though so I left.
For me the entire idea of playing a role playing game is to play the role of a character who has abilities beyond that of a mere mortal, or at least has the potential to develop skills beyond that of a mere mortal.
When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player. Combat becomes based solely on what I can physically do, rather than what a character I have developed can do. No matter how much gear, how many levels I have gained, my combat skill is still based solely what I at the age of 43 can do with my personal hand-eye abilities.
Therefore, I do not find myself immersed in a role I have assumed, but rather continually feel frustrated at my personal abilities.
Action combat is great in some instances, but, the reason I like tab targeting is essentially the same reason I prefer playing pnp dnd over actually combatting someone with a sword and shield, like SCA members for example.
Truth is, I actually like both, but it depends on the game and my mood. When I want to test my own prowess, I play action combat. When I want to immerse myself in a role, I play tab targeting.
Fantastic post. QFT. I was about to say the exact thing!
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
Kind of delusional, FFXIV was a big success.
To add to this, FFXIV 1.0 was trending towards more action type of combat (was still tab targeting though) and SE went back to auto attack and more traditional combat in 2.0.
a huge success with 1m players for 3 games regarding its one of the biggest franchise in japan PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Originally posted by Robokapp What I want to know from the proponents of "action" combat is what a medium scale skirmish like 20 v 20 looks like in their mind.
I see target I attempt to hit target.
How is that different from a solo game. Where is the interaction with other players.
hitting them in the face? of corse you need to coordinate and plan as a team with acton combat - or do you not play together and coordinate in a shooter? or a moba?
the point is, its just much more chalenging and difficult and not just pressing the same 10 buttons in the same order for 15 minutes...
all criticism i have heard here about action combat has NOTHING to do with action combat or tab combat or the style of combat specifically but how it is implemented...thats a whole other story
and i say it again - if u want tab combat, why dont you play the king of all mmo's? or one of its countless copy cats? EQN IS OURS!
For me the entire idea of playing a role playing game is to play the role of a character who has abilities beyond that of a mere mortal, or at least has the potential to develop skills beyond that of a mere mortal.
When you base a game around action, non-tab targeting combat, you base it around my personal hand-eye coordination. Therefore, I do not transcend my own limited skill set as a human player. Combat becomes based solely on what I can physically do, rather than what a character I have developed can do. No matter how much gear, how many levels I have gained, my combat skill is still based solely what I at the age of 43 can do with my personal hand-eye abilities.
Therefore, I do not find myself immersed in a role I have assumed, but rather continually feel frustrated at my personal abilities.
Action combat is great in some instances, but, the reason I like tab targeting is essentially the same reason I prefer playing pnp dnd over actually combatting someone with a sword and shield, like SCA members for example.
Truth is, I actually like both, but it depends on the game and my mood. When I want to test my own prowess, I play action combat. When I want to immerse myself in a role, I play tab targeting.
Fantastic post. QFT. I was about to say the exact thing!
not a fantastic post but a nonsense post
why does action combat mean you do not have abilities or skills you can use? eso has skills? guild wars 2 has skills? terra has skills?
again your just defining in your mind how you think action combat has to be and thats why it is bad - i think your just making wrong assumptions that are neither a necessity nor do they reflect the reality...
or if you want to have a very recent example - look at dragon age inquisition, its action combat, it has skills, its tactical, your party needs to act together for better results... perfect - if they implement such a combat system in an mmo (with cross-class combos) peeeeeeeeerfect for an mmo
"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
You clearly did not get very far in the game, so your idea of what Tera's combat is like, is completely without merit. My guess is max level of 20 for you?
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
You are not the center of the universe. It's ok, I am not either. This is of course something that we all know but we still tend to let it get the better of us. It is very easy to project our own preferences and motivations on others. What I like is not what the next guy is going to like. Why I play is not why the next guy plays. Also, just because a certain game style developed within the genre later doesn't mean that it is an inherent improvement. Some like action some like tab targets.
Second, focusing in.
This will not always be the case but I think that people who tend to enjoy action combat tend to play games as a skill test. This would include people who enjoy console games and shooters and competitive PvP. Not limited to this but just in general. Action combat MMOs emphasize skill and reaction time and other such qualities.
Tab target, click-a-skill style combat tends to downplay the twitch skill aspect. For those that prefer a skill based game this would seem to simply be going backwards. Who could want such a thing. But we got to remember the section above, different people play for different reason. Does chess involve any twitch skills? Why would anyone ever play it then?
MMO's came originally from CRPGs which in turn came from pen and paper RPGs. Obviously these were not twitch skill games but rather games that emphasized story, role playing, exploration and character development. As such it was probably more natural for these games to develop first without leaning to hard on video game skills. From this perspective, action combat MMOs are not a direct improvement on RPGs but rather a hybrid style. Nothing wrong with that but neither is it necessarily an improvement if what you are wanting is simply an achievement based exploration experience.
So the reason that I see tab-targetted MMOs hang on is because they are truly a different category of game from the action based MMOs. Some people don't have the twitch skills to play the action combat games well. Some are not looking for a game with that kind of challenge. That might sound like oh, they just want an easy game. Well, yeah, some people play to explore, not to prove they can strafe and dodge better. I know that sounds weird to the h
"The combat sucks" is not the reason most people leave Tera or GW2. People that don't like that type of combat either don't play those games or leave very quickly. The main criticism levelled at Tera is that is has boring "grindy" quests; for GW2 I have seen various reasons why some people don't like it, but the combat system in itself is not a major one.
I quit TERA because I didn't like the combat. The problem is that awkward controls meant that you're fighting a lot more against the game controls than against mobs. That's partially because the control scheme is awkward, and partially because the mobs don't put up much of a fight. Mobs are stupidly easy to kill, as you kill mobs in two hits and they take about 20 to kill you. The only way to get any semblance of a challenge is to either skip a bunch of stuff to go far above your level or else try to solo group content. Both of those have serious play-balance problems because you're trying to do something with them that was never intended.
You clearly did not get very far in the game, so your idea of what Tera's combat is like, is completely without merit. My guess is max level of 20 for you?
No sensible game designer decides to make some awesome content, but hide it behind a mountain of stupid grinding so that hardly anyone ever gets to see it or even find out that it exists. If you've got some great content, you try to shuttle players into it early on. A bunch of stupid grinding is only what you resort to if you don't have any interesting content to show off.
And because of that, a sensible player who is halfway to the level cap (I quit at 30) and hasn't yet found any interesting content doesn't keep on grinding in hopes that it's just hiding off somewhere where he hasn't gotten to it yet. Even in the unlikely event that there is good content and interesting combat out there at higher levels, it was sequestered there by idiot game designers--and idiot game designers are likely to cause more than a few other problems with a game.
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
I don't care what the game was like in the Korean beta. I care what the released game is like today. And today, combat is stupidly easy. They put in all the work to make it so that you can run around and dodge, and then made it so that it doesn't matter because you can just stand there, trade hits, and still win.
I care because what I was getting at was from the first moment I played up to last year when I played the game. I was talking about controls. Here you're talking about combat...? That's pretty shitty if they made things easier. Glad I left.
Some games take hours or days to get used to the controls, but then it's fine once I get the hang of it. But if controls still feel awkward after a couple of months, I don't think it's because I'm just not used to them yet.
TERA also stands out as being the only game ever to force me to download and install a third-party program made by neither the game vendor nor the gamepad vendor in order to use a gamepad to play the game. Apparently En Masse or Bluehole or someone decided it was a good idea to hard-disable some essential control options unless it detected an Xbox 360 controller. Other controllers need not apply, apparently. So I had to go get software that would tell TERA that I had an Xbox 360 controller plugged in, and then it would let me do the proper control modifications. That the supposed Xbox 360 controller doesn't actually exist in the real world was irrelevant.
Ahhh...here we go. You were talking about controls of a gamepad. Or did you also use mouse and keyboard to play? I only played with m+k and that's why I wanted to share my side.
I did know a couple of people that played with a controller. I asked them often how it was and no complaints from them (at the time).
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Herzy
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
You do understand that your experience doesn't invalidate Quiz's experience?
...
I'm not allowed to post a differing experience on mmorpg.com anymore? Got it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Because I have yet to play an action combat MMO I want to keep playing past 1-3 months. In the end feels like a dodge or blocking game that gets old fast. When 90% of the skill to play the game comes from 1 button, dodging or blocking, it becomes a "win" button, I dont get how players think this is a skill type game. Sad part is they are really fun at first but after a while you start to ask is this fun any more? For me, not yet.
I don't tend to like playing games that all you do is click a button and it's entirely based on your level. That essentially means the greater time you invest, the stronger you will be. It's simply boring to me.
Some claim tab is better for strategy. I disagree, because it doesn't have to be that way. Action combat can also involve strategy just as much and it can work well if done right.
Some say tab targeting is better for roleplay. Again I disagree. If you think it's not in character to control your own character then choosing skills should technically be just as bad. In a role play sense, that character should be choosing his or her own skills, not you. In other words, even in tab targeting, player skill is just as much involved, just a different type of skill.
Action combat isn't only meant for consoles or controllers. Mouse and Keyboard works perfectly fine. You just need to learn how to use them properly. They tend to be much more accurate then a controller is.
With that said, there is nothing wrong with tab targeting. It's just not my cup of tea, and is way too boring. It requires hardly any skill at all and it doesn't challenge me.
The other issue with tab targeting is that it is a step away from where I want MMOs to progress to. Specifically I want them to go down the path of actual virtual worlds using virtual reality. I don't want to be in a virtual reality having the person I am suppose to be, being controlled by the computer. I want full control. I don't see MMOs as a place to role play as another character who is beyond me. I view MMOs as a place to role play as myself in a different world and in a different role. I can do things in these worlds, I could not do in the real world, and to me that is the best part.
Having a blast in Divinity Orginial Sin at the moment. Playing with a buddy and basically its point and click. Having more fun here than any other MMO I have played recently. Maybe its the change in pace and laid back feel of the game. It is casual, in terms of combat it self, but you need to think and have a strategy or you most likely fail.
Just go look at GW2, there is zero breathing time, GO GO GO... and that is not good if you want to play a multiplayer online game.
Comments
I had the pleasure of playing TERA in the Korean open beta. It was a breath of fresh air and never felt the controls were awkward or anything. I remember acclimatizing within minutes to everything. It set a new standard for me which I sorely miss in the MMOs I play.
I like what I like. Sue me.
You're so off.
I don't care what the game was like in the Korean beta. I care what the released game is like today. And today, combat is stupidly easy. They put in all the work to make it so that you can run around and dodge, and then made it so that it doesn't matter because you can just stand there, trade hits, and still win.
Some games take hours or days to get used to the controls, but then it's fine once I get the hang of it. But if controls still feel awkward after a couple of months, I don't think it's because I'm just not used to them yet.
TERA also stands out as being the only game ever to force me to download and install a third-party program made by neither the game vendor nor the gamepad vendor in order to use a gamepad to play the game. Apparently En Masse or Bluehole or someone decided it was a good idea to hard-disable some essential control options unless it detected an Xbox 360 controller. Other controllers need not apply, apparently. So I had to go get software that would tell TERA that I had an Xbox 360 controller plugged in, and then it would let me do the proper control modifications. That the supposed Xbox 360 controller doesn't actually exist in the real world was irrelevant.
You do understand that your experience doesn't invalidate Quiz's experience?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I care because what I was getting at was from the first moment I played up to last year when I played the game. I was talking about controls. Here you're talking about combat...? That's pretty shitty if they made things easier. Glad I left.
Ahhh...here we go. You were talking about controls of a gamepad. Or did you also use mouse and keyboard to play? I only played with m+k and that's why I wanted to share my side.
I did know a couple of people that played with a controller. I asked them often how it was and no complaints from them (at the time).
...
I'm not allowed to post a differing experience on mmorpg.com anymore? Got it.
I grew up on Quake, Quakeworld, Quake 2/3 and Unreal Tournament - I now also play MMO's.
People who talk about MMO's as some type of competitive PvP game are kidding themselves. If you want to test your skill against a single player or team (as in CTF) play an FPS (NOT CS or COD etc. they are a spray gun joke). Don't waste you time trying to argue that MMO's should have some type of semi-half arsed aiming system that makes you FEEL like you are aiming.
The whole twitch terminology was invented by people with shithouse aims to make themselves feel good about how bad they are at aiming. Did I get the odd twitch hit? for sure but over all I was better at holding a lightning gun over a target while it runs/jumps around than most.
MMO's are casual hobbies that can be played with half the attention and should be left that way rather than modifying them to be some fake arsed imaginary aiming game because of some audience that is half way between the skill required to play a real aiming FPS competitively and a pseudo feel good pretend aim MMO.
To this, I'd argue there are many kinds of skills in our real lives. Some people have an affinity for number crunching. Some people have above average social skills. Some people are competent, confident decision makers. It's easy to discount them if you don't consider them, only focusing on the situational awareness and reflex coordination. Some people are very good at mmos before the twitch people even walk in the room. Visceral cunning may win you battles, but when you step out of combat, you've lost the war. That's the thing about mmos and why they appeal to so many people.
edit:
Isn't that a bad paraphrase? Takes reference from 3 different chapters.
I did not like Tera combat because of the interface that changed to another when in combat and you had to get out of combat to do other things and it locked you in a position while the animation played out. Plus the quests were horrid. It was not the action combat that was fine it was the way they did it.
The only game whose action combat I disliked and it actually gave me physical discomfort was Wildstar. ESO has some issue with camera angles which I hope can be fixed.
I generally do not use tab target I click on a target often even in FFXIV and GW 2 was very easy to get used to and there were no issues there. I would say I could strafe and fire my bow with no problem. I use a programmable mouse so it was even easier to play GW2. Found the game bland though so I left.
Fantastic post. QFT. I was about to say the exact thing!
a huge success with 1m players for 3 games regarding its one of the biggest franchise in japan PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
hitting them in the face? of corse you need to coordinate and plan as a team with acton combat - or do you not play together and coordinate in a shooter? or a moba?
the point is, its just much more chalenging and difficult and not just pressing the same 10 buttons in the same order for 15 minutes...
all criticism i have heard here about action combat has NOTHING to do with action combat or tab combat or the style of combat specifically but how it is implemented...thats a whole other story
and i say it again - if u want tab combat, why dont you play the king of all mmo's? or one of its countless copy cats? EQN IS OURS!
not a fantastic post but a nonsense post
why does action combat mean you do not have abilities or skills you can use? eso has skills? guild wars 2 has skills? terra has skills?
again your just defining in your mind how you think action combat has to be and thats why it is bad - i think your just making wrong assumptions that are neither a necessity nor do they reflect the reality...
or if you want to have a very recent example - look at dragon age inquisition, its action combat, it has skills, its tactical, your party needs to act together for better results... perfect - if they implement such a combat system in an mmo (with cross-class combos) peeeeeeeeerfect for an mmo
You clearly did not get very far in the game, so your idea of what Tera's combat is like, is completely without merit. My guess is max level of 20 for you?
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Two points.
First, the big picture.
You are not the center of the universe. It's ok, I am not either. This is of course something that we all know but we still tend to let it get the better of us. It is very easy to project our own preferences and motivations on others. What I like is not what the next guy is going to like. Why I play is not why the next guy plays. Also, just because a certain game style developed within the genre later doesn't mean that it is an inherent improvement. Some like action some like tab targets.
Second, focusing in.
This will not always be the case but I think that people who tend to enjoy action combat tend to play games as a skill test. This would include people who enjoy console games and shooters and competitive PvP. Not limited to this but just in general. Action combat MMOs emphasize skill and reaction time and other such qualities.
Tab target, click-a-skill style combat tends to downplay the twitch skill aspect. For those that prefer a skill based game this would seem to simply be going backwards. Who could want such a thing. But we got to remember the section above, different people play for different reason. Does chess involve any twitch skills? Why would anyone ever play it then?
MMO's came originally from CRPGs which in turn came from pen and paper RPGs. Obviously these were not twitch skill games but rather games that emphasized story, role playing, exploration and character development. As such it was probably more natural for these games to develop first without leaning to hard on video game skills. From this perspective, action combat MMOs are not a direct improvement on RPGs but rather a hybrid style. Nothing wrong with that but neither is it necessarily an improvement if what you are wanting is simply an achievement based exploration experience.
So the reason that I see tab-targetted MMOs hang on is because they are truly a different category of game from the action based MMOs. Some people don't have the twitch skills to play the action combat games well. Some are not looking for a game with that kind of challenge. That might sound like oh, they just want an easy game. Well, yeah, some people play to explore, not to prove they can strafe and dodge better. I know that sounds weird to the h
All die, so die well.
No sensible game designer decides to make some awesome content, but hide it behind a mountain of stupid grinding so that hardly anyone ever gets to see it or even find out that it exists. If you've got some great content, you try to shuttle players into it early on. A bunch of stupid grinding is only what you resort to if you don't have any interesting content to show off.
And because of that, a sensible player who is halfway to the level cap (I quit at 30) and hasn't yet found any interesting content doesn't keep on grinding in hopes that it's just hiding off somewhere where he hasn't gotten to it yet. Even in the unlikely event that there is good content and interesting combat out there at higher levels, it was sequestered there by idiot game designers--and idiot game designers are likely to cause more than a few other problems with a game.
Overreact much?
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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Because I have yet to play an action combat MMO I want to keep playing past 1-3 months. In the end feels like a dodge or blocking game that gets old fast. When 90% of the skill to play the game comes from 1 button, dodging or blocking, it becomes a "win" button, I dont get how players think this is a skill type game. Sad part is they are really fun at first but after a while you start to ask is this fun any more? For me, not yet.
I, personally, like action combat.
I don't tend to like playing games that all you do is click a button and it's entirely based on your level. That essentially means the greater time you invest, the stronger you will be. It's simply boring to me.
Some claim tab is better for strategy. I disagree, because it doesn't have to be that way. Action combat can also involve strategy just as much and it can work well if done right.
Some say tab targeting is better for roleplay. Again I disagree. If you think it's not in character to control your own character then choosing skills should technically be just as bad. In a role play sense, that character should be choosing his or her own skills, not you. In other words, even in tab targeting, player skill is just as much involved, just a different type of skill.
Action combat isn't only meant for consoles or controllers. Mouse and Keyboard works perfectly fine. You just need to learn how to use them properly. They tend to be much more accurate then a controller is.
With that said, there is nothing wrong with tab targeting. It's just not my cup of tea, and is way too boring. It requires hardly any skill at all and it doesn't challenge me.
The other issue with tab targeting is that it is a step away from where I want MMOs to progress to. Specifically I want them to go down the path of actual virtual worlds using virtual reality. I don't want to be in a virtual reality having the person I am suppose to be, being controlled by the computer. I want full control. I don't see MMOs as a place to role play as another character who is beyond me. I view MMOs as a place to role play as myself in a different world and in a different role. I can do things in these worlds, I could not do in the real world, and to me that is the best part.
And i have a different experience. All the recent MMOs fun to me have action combat: Marvel Heroes, Star Conflict, Warframe ....
Having a blast in Divinity Orginial Sin at the moment. Playing with a buddy and basically its point and click. Having more fun here than any other MMO I have played recently. Maybe its the change in pace and laid back feel of the game. It is casual, in terms of combat it self, but you need to think and have a strategy or you most likely fail.
Just go look at GW2, there is zero breathing time, GO GO GO... and that is not good if you want to play a multiplayer online game.