I think because tab targeting is an 'evolved' method of handling the combat in MMO's, over time it has become more 'user friendly' which really just means that games have evolved in a fashion that players prefer, it really depends on the type of game, much like mouse and keyboard are the preferred control method when it comes to FPS games, tab targeting is often the preferred method for the majority of fantasy MMO's etc. no finger gymnastics required and you get to play the game and pay attention to the action rather than worry about trying to aim at a single target in a crowd etc. For action based MMO's and MOBA's they rely more on aimed mouse clicks, and for those types of games it works, but thats pretty much it
I can't speak for TSW, but all of the other games mentioned had significant flaws.
Playing wildstar it felt like none of the moves had any impact whatsoever, everything felt light and floaty, PvP was a giant mess of colored rectangles and other ground spam spells that made everything look ridiculous.
Tera has a terrible tendancy of locking your movement when you attack, this completely made me lose all sense of character control and made me quit within 3 hours of play, i just couldn't stand feeling so restricted, archers should be able to move while shooting in an action combat system, even if It's in trade for a loss of accuracy.
GW2 wasn't really action combat, it had a dodge move that simply gave a short period of immunity and had nothing to do with dodging the projectile coming at you, and still had a targeting system like any tabmmo had.
all i know is that during release and roughly a month after, it felt like there was absolutely nothing to do, WvW was an empty shell, progression was nowhere to be found, leaving no real reason to play besides the people i played with, who felt like their was no progression, so we all moved on.
Tab targeting may be an ancient method, but It's one thats been -dare i say- perfected, or at least close to.
Not to mention most MMO players have probably gotten used to being able to do other things at the same time, even during combat, action MMO's leave very little time for chatting in between.
IMHO, action combat just doesn't work for MMORPGs unless a developer wants to go the realism route, and we haven't seen any of those.
I do find it kind of odd there haven't been many opinions against it. Move this thread 6 months back in time and 90% of the posts would have been " tab target sucks and GW2 rules " type of arguments. Same goes for any " microtransaction games are terrible threads ". I wonder if most of those type of posters have just moved onto different sites, or quit MMORPGs all together.
there is a minority of players who are stuck in their old ways and dont want any change - same same trinity and tab targeting and same game for the next 100years which they will play through in a motnh and than complain there is nothing new to it....
a few things are important here
a) the people that are active in the forums and cry the loudest rarely represent the majority of the gaming population
b) if the majority of games preferred tab targeting, developpers wouldnt move away from it...
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
may be even AAA mmorpgs are a thing of the past. Aside from EQN, which was announced quite a while ago, there is none on the horizon.
I'm not sure how action combat would work in large scale battles. In fact, I think people would find it more of a nuisance and either pick classes or builds capable of point blank AoE or ground targeting AoE to get around it.
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
Kind of delusional, FFXIV was a big success.
To add to this, FFXIV 1.0 was trending towards more action type of combat (was still tab targeting though) and SE went back to auto attack and more traditional combat in 2.0.
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
may be even AAA mmorpgs are a thing of the past. Aside from EQN, which was announced quite a while ago, there is none on the horizon.
I'd have to very much agree with this. All the big studios are making MOBAs or other genres. There are a bunch of indie MMORPGs that are in development that are tab-target.
One that come to mind that has sparked this same debate is The Repopulation, which allows you to use both targetting schemes. We shall see how well this turns out.
Originally posted by bcbully Tab-target mmorpgs are a thing of the past. I don't think we will ever see another AAA mmorpg with a tab-targeting system.
Which would explain why , most likley over 80% of the market are people playin Tab Target games
I like both. You can design a good game around either.
The type of targeting matters less to me than a lot of other game design decisions. Or rather, I should say, matters more with other game design decisions and not in an isolated context, because it's the sum of all the parts that makes the game interesting.
there is a minority of players who are stuck in their old ways and dont want any change - same same trinity and tab targeting and same game for the next 100years which they will play through in a motnh and than complain there is nothing new to it....
a few things are important here
a) the people that are active in the forums and cry the loudest rarely represent the majority of the gaming population
b) if the majority of games preferred tab targeting, developpers wouldnt move away from it...
how do you know its a minority not a majority?
evidence based assumption
developpers need the biggest amount of players they can get for large aaa projects which mmos are - therefore they develop for the majority (at least the aaa titles) and since all aaa titles are moving towards action combat this seems to be the majority...
Originally posted by Robokapp What I want to know from the proponents of "action" combat is what a medium scale skirmish like 20 v 20 looks like in their mind.
Originally posted by Robokapp What I want to know from the proponents of "action" combat is what a medium scale skirmish like 20 v 20 looks like in their mind.
I see target I attempt to hit target.
How is that different from a solo game. Where is the interaction with other players.
I gave up on the game after the first few round tables where they basically stated they were making another awful game. Very disappointing I remember playing EQ in the mid 2000s and hearing discussion of EQ Next.. that would be the updated version of EQ1 (not updated version of all the games we are sick of).
But after the minimal death penalty, guns in game, fast travel, multiple guilds, ability to play every class and change your class etc. (basically no consequences to any decision you make in the game)... I realized the game was not for me. I have more consequences in playing solitaire than I would in modern MMO's.
Originally posted by Robokapp What I want to know from the proponents of "action" combat is what a medium scale skirmish like 20 v 20 looks like in their mind.
I see target I attempt to hit target.
How is that different from a solo game. Where is the interaction with other players.
20v20 skirmishes are usually a pvp thing. I'm not sure I understand your question.
I like them all, tab targeting, action, even turn based.
What I'd hate to see is every new MMO adopting the action style combat.
Yep, they all have advantages and disadvantages and reasons people prefer one or the other. I like Tab target, I don't really like precise aiming as part of the combat, but that's me. I can understand if people, especially those that play fps, would maybe enjoy this aspect.
Turn based, involve the most strategy with no twitch based/reaction time combat. Tab Target is sort of in between action/turn based.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Comments
This is my personal opinion
Because no one has done action combat right.
I can't speak for TSW, but all of the other games mentioned had significant flaws.
Playing wildstar it felt like none of the moves had any impact whatsoever, everything felt light and floaty, PvP was a giant mess of colored rectangles and other ground spam spells that made everything look ridiculous.
Tera has a terrible tendancy of locking your movement when you attack, this completely made me lose all sense of character control and made me quit within 3 hours of play, i just couldn't stand feeling so restricted, archers should be able to move while shooting in an action combat system, even if It's in trade for a loss of accuracy.
GW2 wasn't really action combat, it had a dodge move that simply gave a short period of immunity and had nothing to do with dodging the projectile coming at you, and still had a targeting system like any tabmmo had.
all i know is that during release and roughly a month after, it felt like there was absolutely nothing to do, WvW was an empty shell, progression was nowhere to be found, leaving no real reason to play besides the people i played with, who felt like their was no progression, so we all moved on.
Tab targeting may be an ancient method, but It's one thats been -dare i say- perfected, or at least close to.
Not to mention most MMO players have probably gotten used to being able to do other things at the same time, even during combat, action MMO's leave very little time for chatting in between.
Tab Target:
Action Style MMO:
IMHO, action combat just doesn't work for MMORPGs unless a developer wants to go the realism route, and we haven't seen any of those.
I do find it kind of odd there haven't been many opinions against it. Move this thread 6 months back in time and 90% of the posts would have been " tab target sucks and GW2 rules " type of arguments. Same goes for any " microtransaction games are terrible threads ". I wonder if most of those type of posters have just moved onto different sites, or quit MMORPGs all together.
because of adam smith's invisible hand?
Kind of delusional, FFXIV was a big success.
may be even AAA mmorpgs are a thing of the past. Aside from EQN, which was announced quite a while ago, there is none on the horizon.
EQNext isn't tab target though, it's an action style MMO.
And after I saw this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/420063 I have written off the game.
To add to this, FFXIV 1.0 was trending towards more action type of combat (was still tab targeting though) and SE went back to auto attack and more traditional combat in 2.0.
I'm curious if the proponents of action combat are looking at this from a PVP point of view. I'd have to think that they are.
How many people actually prefer action combat in group PVE? I'd imagine a lot less.
I'd have to very much agree with this. All the big studios are making MOBAs or other genres. There are a bunch of indie MMORPGs that are in development that are tab-target.
One that come to mind that has sparked this same debate is The Repopulation, which allows you to use both targetting schemes. We shall see how well this turns out.
And how many of those are actually MMO players.
Which would explain why , most likley over 80% of the market are people playin Tab Target games
I like both. You can design a good game around either.
The type of targeting matters less to me than a lot of other game design decisions. Or rather, I should say, matters more with other game design decisions and not in an isolated context, because it's the sum of all the parts that makes the game interesting.
evidence based assumption
developpers need the biggest amount of players they can get for large aaa projects which mmos are - therefore they develop for the majority (at least the aaa titles) and since all aaa titles are moving towards action combat this seems to be the majority...
I see target I attempt to hit target.
How is that different from a solo game. Where is the interaction with other players.
I gave up on the game after the first few round tables where they basically stated they were making another awful game. Very disappointing I remember playing EQ in the mid 2000s and hearing discussion of EQ Next.. that would be the updated version of EQ1 (not updated version of all the games we are sick of).
But after the minimal death penalty, guns in game, fast travel, multiple guilds, ability to play every class and change your class etc. (basically no consequences to any decision you make in the game)... I realized the game was not for me. I have more consequences in playing solitaire than I would in modern MMO's.
I like them all, tab targeting, action, even turn based.
What I'd hate to see is every new MMO adopting the action style combat.
20v20 skirmishes are usually a pvp thing. I'm not sure I understand your question.
Yep, they all have advantages and disadvantages and reasons people prefer one or the other. I like Tab target, I don't really like precise aiming as part of the combat, but that's me. I can understand if people, especially those that play fps, would maybe enjoy this aspect.
Turn based, involve the most strategy with no twitch based/reaction time combat. Tab Target is sort of in between action/turn based.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile