To be fair it couldn't possibly be worse than the decision to use the hero engine for SWTOR. I mean, at least the graphics will look good and they can't blow $300 million because they don't have $300 million.
I know i love that. People weren't off whinging about SWTOR and them spending like 150million just on stupid voice acting. Or like you said, using the hero engine, quite possibly the worst engine ever made. At least cry engine is a good engine, efficient, etc.
Maybe it's because SWTOR didn't use crowd funding to the extent of SC ?
That actually says something positive for crowd funding.
CIG spending other peoples money with zero accountability managed to pick a better engine than EA did while spending EA's own money.
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too. In fact, there are evidences that he could be intentionally deceptive, while no evidences that he could not. He was intentionally deceptive in some of his recent claims, for example, claiming that the only thing that he promised was Squadron 42, an alpha and community updates, and all the rest was "stretch goals", including the PU... and even used a shady way, a bogus "proof" to try to prove his point, using from a page that was non-existent originally and became non-existent for several months later of the end of the original funding campaign.
That was clearly intentionally deceptive, at least to me.
The change in the clause of refunds was also intentional. Also intentionally deceptive.
The fact that they break the law, and fail in their plans matter... of course it matters.
He did both. Unintentional and intentional deceptive advertising. And its part of his MO, because was repetitive and happened not just one time, but along the entire project.
lack of discipline which is common in highly creative people is not the same thing as being intentionally deceptive and its unfortunate many people in these forums can not tell the difference
LOL, this thread is full of make believe and bull-pucky. This post is just one example. No one said anything about CR being "intentionally deceptive" and yet here is SEAN fighting for a point no one even made. I looked at the post he quoted from Brenics and those words were not in it. I scanned through the 4 pages and again have not seen these words used.
I think a few of the people in this thread are only here to cause a ruckus and dont give a crap about this game or company.
You just had to look up 2 posts higher. Literally.
It was @jcrg99 and I quote: It does not matter that he is being "intentionally" deceptive. He has the legal responsibility of not been deceptive. And he was, he is and will continue to be.
Unfortunately it's fairly nonsensical so it's difficult to tell what the hell he's even saying. So I'll give SEAN a pass on it.
It's because you don't know (or do not want to know) what deceptive is in terms of the legal perspective, which was what I referred in the comment that you quoted, so, wouldn't be that hard as you claimed to figure out.
No problem. I share with you by the 100th time. Maybe one day you quit the ignorance or the need to be blind to believe in whatever dream you have, and accept to educate yourself about real life:
The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the
interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or
practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has
determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
mislead consumers and
affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
So you CAN link things. Interesting.
BTW, I know how annoying it can be when you link to something factual and people don't pay attention to it.
In this particular case, though, I wasn't asking for the article itself, I was simply saying that I couldn't make out what you were saying, since someone was asking where SEAN had come up with this "intentionally deceptive" idea.
WRT being intentionally deceptive, I think that if you can link an article that shows that CR is being/has been intentionally deceptive then you might have something. Otherwise this is nearly impossible to prove in court.
The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the
interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or
practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has
determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
mislead consumers and
affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
WRT being intentionally deceptive, I think that if you can link an article that shows that CR is being/has been intentionally deceptive then you might have something. Otherwise this is nearly impossible to prove in court.
The kool-aid is strong on this one.
Where you are seeing "intention" in the valid/legal definition of deceptive marketing? What part of the company been legally responsible of not been deceptive, regardless intention or not, have you missed? You are right. Intention is nearly impossible to prove in the court. That's why, for the sake of consumers, the intention is not part of the concept and its the responsibility of the company to take care of not misleading consumer, not making ambiguous statements, not omitting important information that could change their decision of buying something or not.
You have serious problems of logic and reason, I can see that now. Kool-aid effect I guess.
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too....
going from 'cant be sure that he is not' to 'calling him deceptive is an flat out evil tactic to take.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too....
going from 'cant be sure that he is not' to 'calling him deceptive is an flat out evil tactic to take.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
Did you ignore the example that I used in purpose? I wonder.
"He was intentionally deceptive in some of his recent claims, for example, claiming that the only thing that he promised was Squadron 42, an alpha and community updates originally, and all the rest was "stretch goals", including the PU... and even used a shady way, a bogus "proof" to try to prove his point, using from a page that was non-existent originally and became non-existent for several months later of the end of the original funding campaign.
That was clearly intentionally deceptive, at least to me.
The change in the clause of refunds was also intentional. Also intentionally deceptive."
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
Should I add more... or should i stop... More than enough here.
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too....
going from 'cant be sure that he is not' to 'calling him deceptive is an flat out evil tactic to take.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
....
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
Should I add more... or should i stop... More than enough here.
most of what you say is NOT proof that he was deceptive and ALL of it could be related to just poor planning.
The item you stated in Bold is EXACTLY what I am refering to.
being terrible at project management = giving dates that everyone but you knows you cant meet
being deceptive is being consciously aware that you can not and iwll not meet the dates.
There is a difference because the vast majority of project management do not meet dates and not because people are being intentionally deceptive
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well, no one is perfect, as is not CR. he may did some mistakes in past, but who not? That doesnt mean anything for SC. The only thing you can judge is the game he is developing right now, SC, you cant evaluate how he is working on it, how he leads his team or the project at all.
And to say CR is a bad game developer because some said something bad about him in the past ist stupid. Can you give me any trustworthy source that back up what you are saying? Who exactly said that CR should not be the head of such a project?
Actually, failure to meet any milestones within projected time frames gives me enough information to evaluate how he is leading this project. I would have fired him as CEO and kept him as a CVO after the first two milestones were failed. This doesn't make CR a failure, being a CEO just doesn't appear to be his skillset. I think he has a lot of talent best used as a CVO.
The issues with the engine have been known for a long time, they were known at the onset of the project. There have been difficulties in keeping qualified engineers on staff with the experience needed, it's expected, especially with the continuing push to bring all the engineering to the CIG stateside offices (which I personally would have kept completely at Foundry 42 where the talent pool for the engine is primarily located).
To say that there are no problems is simply living in a state of denial. To say that they can't fix the problems would be unrealistic given the information we have.
Well, no one is perfect, as is not CR. he may did some mistakes in past, but who not? That doesnt mean anything for SC. The only thing you can judge is the game he is developing right now, SC, you cant evaluate how he is working on it, how he leads his team or the project at all.
And to say CR is a bad game developer because some said something bad about him in the past ist stupid. Can you give me any trustworthy source that back up what you are saying? Who exactly said that CR should not be the head of such a project?
Actually, failure to meet any milestones within projected time frames gives me enough information to evaluate how he is leading this project. I would have fired him as CEO
1. this is being more realistic and more fair. There is a difference between being intentionally deceptive and just being a poor planner. 2. I have worked in offices with projects for around 10+ years and in offices in general for 25+ years. I dont think I have EVER seen a project date met, not once. Its EXTREMELY common for that to go wrong and nobody is being intentionally deceptive its just predicting the future is kinda hard
3. being a poor planner instead of a baby killer doesnt mean you should not be fired. If you are a horrific at planning you should not be a planner. but that DOESNT mean you also eat dead babies for breakfast and worship satan.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
For all the defenders of this game Give us a time table of when you might start to worry about the game coming out or being able to be completed in some form or another.
Assuming of course they dont fold up shop and keep saying theyre working on it.
When do you need to see say the single player mod? I think that was supposed to be released in March of 2014. When do you need to see a pertinent world, doesnt have to be a big aspect but anything that exists so when you make a character (oh yeah when do you think character creation should be added?) that character stays where you left it when you log off? When do you want ot see space exploration? Planetary exploration?
I am not talking about animated videos but something you can actually log onto the game YOURSELF and experience first hand.
If by this time next year there is nothing but the demo you have now but version 12.0, a few more ships, and maybe an instance where you can dogfight (without too many glitches or bugs) will that be enough?
Or will it depend on how much more money they have 'raised' will raising more money make you give them more time or would you expect more money to get it done faster? If the engine is rebuilt now (as many claim) what if in July he has to rebuild it again? Which I think this video is saying he has already said. So those claiming the engine right now is good enough are as most defenders have been lately...wrong.
But seriously assume worst case scenarios when do people need to start seeing advancements before they start to get nervous?
For all the defenders of this game Give us a time table of when you might start to worry about the game coming out or being able to be completed in some form or another.
I think the critics misunderstand something. please read below closely and I will try to explain.
If someone is hired as a planner and they constantly miss dates by a large margin and they are taking in large sums of money to try and justify more and more delays THE MAY NEED TO BE FIRED!!!!!!
I agree with statement above 10000% its why I stopped following SC a long time ago and am just now re-starting it. In this case one should (if possible) look for a replacement and to be frank I personally think he should be replaced but ONLY if its someone with the same feature sets in mind.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART TO FOLLOW:
What I DONT think is that the above statements by me which represents how i see this project means he is intentional deceptive, scamming, or firing people illegallly. He just naive and way over his head and he should be replaced (although I dont think that is possible)
People here seem to think they have to proove somoene eats babies for breakfast before they get any attention on their core concerns and its not that way.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too....
going from 'cant be sure that he is not' to 'calling him deceptive is an flat out evil tactic to take.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
....
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
Should I add more... or should i stop... More than enough here.
most of what you say is NOT proof that he was deceptive and ALL of it could be related to just poor planning.
The item you stated in Bold is EXACTLY what I am refering to.
being terrible at project management = giving dates that everyone but you knows you cant meet
being deceptive is being consciously aware that you can not and iwll not meet the dates.
There is a difference because the vast majority of project management do not meet dates and not because people are being intentionally deceptive
So, now you chosen one statement of what I said to try to claim that everything was about a supposed wrong estimate? Why you ignored all the rest that I said that prove how Roberts intentionally used of lies to try to escape of justice?
So, I am going to try again. Here is my post. Here are plenty of evidences that prove Roberts intentionally mislead people, including a lame try to rewrite the past and another lame tactic to avoid to give refunds:
"And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment. "
He very well may have a legal obligation I dont know because I dont know what you are talking about but its STILL not intentional deceptive, regardless of what his legal obligations are
You can't be sure that he is not too....
going from 'cant be sure that he is not' to 'calling him deceptive is an flat out evil tactic to take.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
....
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
Should I add more... or should i stop... More than enough here.
most of what you say is NOT proof that he was deceptive and ALL of it could be related to just poor planning.
The item you stated in Bold is EXACTLY what I am refering to.
being terrible at project management = giving dates that everyone but you knows you cant meet
being deceptive is being consciously aware that you can not and iwll not meet the dates.
There is a difference because the vast majority of project management do not meet dates and not because people are being intentionally deceptive
So, now you chosen one statement of what I said to try to claim that everything was about a supposed wrong estimate? Why you ignored all the rest that I said that prove how Roberts intentionally used of lies to try to escape of justice?
So, I am going to try again. Here is my post. Here are plenty of evidences that prove Roberts intentionally mislead people, including a lame try to rewrite the past and another lame tactic to avoid to give refunds:
"And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment. "
do you mean like the what I highlighted that you said in bold to be concrete and speific?
here it is again And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later
are you refering to statements like that?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ah. Ok. It's clear now that you are just delusional.
And you brought again that talking about "illegal firing". I never see this accusation from anyone except from you. And now started the sensationalist talking using the expression "scam" too. Even want to compare deceptive advertising, or bad faith on business (intentionally lying for people, for money), which is a very common practice actually, even that incorrect, but that ends been used for many people in many different business, in many occasions, for reasons like to achieve goals, under pressure, to get a bonus, etc., as if it was like "killing babies", or some kind of demoniac crime.
Because Roberts is "naive". A Paladin of Honesty, that is on this, just to make the game that he wants to play, without any interest on profit. You know... Jesus Reborn. This time, married:
And you to want to explain to people how the things work. And have years of experience in offices. Never saw a software coming out as estimated. They all miss the target in 5 years. And finally, you are not a fan.
I said I was done but just one more thing... I keep hearing it parroted that, "CryTek engineers said this couldn't be done!" Link the source please... an official CryTek source and not some obscure blog post if you don't mind.
To be fair it couldn't possibly be worse than the decision to use the hero engine for SWTOR. I mean, at least the graphics will look good and they can't blow $300 million because they don't have $300 million.
I know i love that. People weren't off whinging about SWTOR and them spending like 150million just on stupid voice acting. Or like you said, using the hero engine, quite possibly the worst engine ever made. At least cry engine is a good engine, efficient, etc.
Maybe it's because SWTOR didn't use crowd funding to the extent of SC ?
That actually says something positive for crowd funding.
CIG spending other peoples money with zero accountability managed to pick a better engine than EA did while spending EA's own money.
So CIG spending others people money without any accountability is OK?
So then if would be ok for him to spend $100,000 of other peoples money on a vacation or other things that have no bearing on the game.
Well if you believe (and other backers believe) it is ok then send some of that money my way. If I get enough then I will start to support CIG.
Everything will be forgiven if the game is good. Trouble is, on the evidence of their current build, it's going to be shockingly bad. It's going to make X:Rebirth look like the worlds greatest space sim.
im still not seeing a game in here either... Flying round Comms arrays... Where is the smuggling, fleet commanding, planet exploring, trading, space tourism... FFS Rodina has more content than this game (and actually works)
I said I was done but just one more thing... I keep hearing it parroted that, "CryTek engineers said this couldn't be done!" Link the source please... an official CryTek source and not some obscure blog post if you don't mind.
Bren
It's never been done because it can't be done. - Several sources
I said I was done but just one more thing... I keep hearing it parroted that, "CryTek engineers said this couldn't be done!" Link the source please... an official CryTek source and not some obscure blog post if you don't mind.
Bren
No no, let's just face facts here. Using the CryEngine for what Roberts wants to accomplish is simply impossible. Random "experts" on the internet have told us so, so we must take their information at face value. So that means if they do manage to pull this game off as intended that both the tech team and Chris Roberts are both bloody heroes, and bloody geniuses. I'd much rather stick to that narrative as it will make the naysayers look that much more foolish if SC turns out to be a success.
I'm a little surprised these people don't realize what a potential triumph they've just handed their enemies. By their own hand they've just transformed Chris Roberts from just another guy making a video game into some kind of potential miracle worker. "Brilliant" tactical move guys. What are you going to do for an encore? Shoot yourselves in the bollocks?
Sure you can do everything with every 3D engine, you just have to rebuild them more or less. What just irritates me is that he has choosen an engine on how good materials look. And he didn't revised his choice on vision 2.0. And btw materials would look the same on Unreal, Unity or Cry, all 3 have PBR, full DX12, 64Bit and full Shader Support, CR should have known this back in the days.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
To be fair it couldn't possibly be worse than the decision to use the hero engine for SWTOR. I mean, at least the graphics will look good and they can't blow $300 million because they don't have $300 million.
I know i love that. People weren't off whinging about SWTOR and them spending like 150million just on stupid voice acting. Or like you said, using the hero engine, quite possibly the worst engine ever made. At least cry engine is a good engine, efficient, etc.
Maybe it's because SWTOR didn't use crowd funding to the extent of SC ?
That actually says something positive for crowd funding.
CIG spending other peoples money with zero accountability managed to pick a better engine than EA did while spending EA's own money.
So CIG spending others people money without any accountability is OK?
So then if would be ok for him to spend $100,000 of other peoples money on a vacation or other things that have no bearing on the game.
Well if you believe (and other backers believe) it is ok then send some of that money my way. If I get enough then I will start to support CIG.
Is it OK? It's not best practices but Chris Roberts separating a few gullible people in rich developed nations from some of their discretionary income is hardly the worst thing that happened this year.
Sounds like you're a little jealous of all Roberts crowdfunding money, but I'm sorry if you want to fleece people you'll have to start your own kickstarter campaign rather than begging in forum threads.
Ah. Ok. It's clear now that you are just delusional.
I ask again.
are you refering to specifically this statement when you say he is being intentionally decipective
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later
because I am saying that is NOT an example of being intentionally deceptive
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I asked for an official source... you know one that can be independently verified? Not some article quoting anonymous sources. So all of your information comes from an Escapist article with sources that could have been Santa Clause or Napoleon for all we know? An actual CryTek Engineer wouldn't have any issue putting his name on any comments like this. It happens all of the time in the game industry. I'm still waiting for an OFFICIAL SOURCE.
Comments
CIG spending other peoples money with zero accountability managed to pick a better engine than EA did while spending EA's own money.
That was clearly intentionally deceptive, at least to me.
The change in the clause of refunds was also intentional. Also intentionally deceptive.
The fact that they break the law, and fail in their plans matter... of course it matters.
He did both. Unintentional and intentional deceptive advertising. And its part of his MO, because was repetitive and happened not just one time, but along the entire project.
So you CAN link things. Interesting.
BTW, I know how annoying it can be when you link to something factual and people don't pay attention to it.
In this particular case, though, I wasn't asking for the article itself, I was simply saying that I couldn't make out what you were saying, since someone was asking where SEAN had come up with this "intentionally deceptive" idea.
WRT being intentionally deceptive, I think that if you can link an article that shows that CR is being/has been intentionally deceptive then you might have something. Otherwise this is nearly impossible to prove in court.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Where you are seeing "intention" in the valid/legal definition of deceptive marketing? What part of the company been legally responsible of not been deceptive, regardless intention or not, have you missed? You are right. Intention is nearly impossible to prove in the court. That's why, for the sake of consumers, the intention is not part of the concept and its the responsibility of the company to take care of not misleading consumer, not making ambiguous statements, not omitting important information that could change their decision of buying something or not.
You have serious problems of logic and reason, I can see that now. Kool-aid effect I guess.
basically you are trying to suggest this is ok?
'Its a well known fact that CR is undisciplined and often late, here is that evidence, therefore because we dont have any evidence that he is not intentional deciving people the former clearly supports the later accucastion'
pure unadulterated evil so says this guy with no moral compas.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"He was intentionally deceptive in some of his recent claims, for example, claiming that the only thing that he promised was Squadron 42, an alpha and community updates originally, and all the rest was "stretch goals", including the PU... and even used a shady way, a bogus "proof" to try to prove his point, using from a page that was non-existent originally and became non-existent for several months later of the end of the original funding campaign. That was clearly intentionally deceptive, at least to me. The change in the clause of refunds was also intentional. Also intentionally deceptive."
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
Should I add more... or should i stop... More than enough here.
The item you stated in Bold is EXACTLY what I am refering to.
being terrible at project management = giving dates that everyone but you knows you cant meet
being deceptive is being consciously aware that you can not and iwll not meet the dates.
There is a difference because the vast majority of project management do not meet dates and not because people are being intentionally deceptive
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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The issues with the engine have been known for a long time, they were known at the onset of the project. There have been difficulties in keeping qualified engineers on staff with the experience needed, it's expected, especially with the continuing push to bring all the engineering to the CIG stateside offices (which I personally would have kept completely at Foundry 42 where the talent pool for the engine is primarily located).
To say that there are no problems is simply living in a state of denial.
To say that they can't fix the problems would be unrealistic given the information we have.
2. I have worked in offices with projects for around 10+ years and in offices in general for 25+ years. I dont think I have EVER seen a project date met, not once. Its EXTREMELY common for that to go wrong and nobody is being intentionally deceptive its just predicting the future is kinda hard
3. being a poor planner instead of a baby killer doesnt mean you should not be fired. If you are a horrific at planning you should not be a planner. but that DOESNT mean you also eat dead babies for breakfast and worship satan.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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For all the defenders of this game Give us a time table of when you might start to worry about the game coming out or being able to be completed in some form or another.
Assuming of course they dont fold up shop and keep saying theyre working on it.
When do you need to see say the single player mod? I think that was supposed to be released in March of 2014. When do you need to see a pertinent world, doesnt have to be a big aspect but anything that exists so when you make a character (oh yeah when do you think character creation should be added?) that character stays where you left it when you log off? When do you want ot see space exploration? Planetary exploration?
I am not talking about animated videos but something you can actually log onto the game YOURSELF and experience first hand.
If by this time next year there is nothing but the demo you have now but version 12.0, a few more ships, and maybe an instance where you can dogfight (without too many glitches or bugs) will that be enough?
Or will it depend on how much more money they have 'raised' will raising more money make you give them more time or would you expect more money to get it done faster? If the engine is rebuilt now (as many claim) what if in July he has to rebuild it again? Which I think this video is saying he has already said. So those claiming the engine right now is good enough are as most defenders have been lately...wrong.
But seriously assume worst case scenarios when do people need to start seeing advancements before they start to get nervous?
If someone is hired as a planner and they constantly miss dates by a large margin and they are taking in large sums of money to try and justify more and more delays THE MAY NEED TO BE FIRED!!!!!!
I agree with statement above 10000% its why I stopped following SC a long time ago and am just now re-starting it. In this case one should (if possible) look for a replacement and to be frank I personally think he should be replaced but ONLY if its someone with the same feature sets in mind.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART TO FOLLOW:
What I DONT think is that the above statements by me which represents how i see this project means he is intentional deceptive, scamming, or firing people illegallly. He just naive and way over his head and he should be replaced (although I dont think that is possible)
People here seem to think they have to proove somoene eats babies for breakfast before they get any attention on their core concerns and its not that way.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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So, now you chosen one statement of what I said to try to claim that everything was about a supposed wrong estimate? Why you ignored all the rest that I said that prove how Roberts intentionally used of lies to try to escape of justice?
So, I am going to try again. Here is my post. Here are plenty of evidences that prove Roberts intentionally mislead people, including a lame try to rewrite the past and another lame tactic to avoid to give refunds:
"And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later. He even made such TOS, with these statements, after having acquired millions of dollars and achieved the stretch goals. He did not change the estimate delivery date. IT still was the same: Nov/2014 in that moment. And what he did? Through intentional deception, disrespected this deal:
Roberts promised to people that more money would bring the game faster... in more than one occasion. He denied that doubts regarding feature creep with such statements. And said that this was one of the most important things, actually, of gathering more money.
He was also deceptive in the same way, when trying to get people voting YES, to more stretch goals. He has been intentionally deceptive when stating that the "backers asked for it", because he hasn't all backers asking for it in the first place, even considering the minority who voted in that bogus/easily manipulated poll, and totally biased in its description.
And the proof of all that, is that recently, he came to the public and told that was OBVIOUS that would take longer... so, yes, he knew that was obvious that he would take longer instead coming faster, but intentionally deceived people that more money would bring everything faster to them, when they actually raised the questions in that moment.
"
here it is again
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later
are you refering to statements like that?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Ah. Ok. It's clear now that you are just delusional.
And you brought again that talking about "illegal firing". I never see this accusation from anyone except from you. And now started the sensationalist talking using the expression "scam" too. Even want to compare deceptive advertising, or bad faith on business (intentionally lying for people, for money), which is a very common practice actually, even that incorrect, but that ends been used for many people in many different business, in many occasions, for reasons like to achieve goals, under pressure, to get a bonus, etc., as if it was like "killing babies", or some kind of demoniac crime.
Because Roberts is "naive". A Paladin of Honesty, that is on this, just to make the game that he wants to play, without any interest on profit. You know... Jesus Reborn. This time, married:
http://i.imgur.com/bAbDZln.jpg
And you to want to explain to people how the things work. And have years of experience in offices. Never saw a software coming out as estimated. They all miss the target in 5 years. And finally, you are not a fan.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
So then if would be ok for him to spend $100,000 of other peoples money on a vacation or other things that have no bearing on the game.
Well if you believe (and other backers believe) it is ok then send some of that money my way. If I get enough then I will start to support CIG.
im still not seeing a game in here either... Flying round Comms arrays... Where is the smuggling, fleet commanding, planet exploring, trading, space tourism... FFS Rodina has more content than this game (and actually works)
- Several sources
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
edit - it reminds me of a scene from Jay and Silent Bob about the movie-poopchute.com site.
Life IS Feudal
What just irritates me is that he has choosen an engine on how good materials look. And he didn't revised his choice on vision 2.0.
And btw materials would look the same on Unreal, Unity or Cry, all 3 have PBR, full DX12, 64Bit and full Shader Support, CR should have known this back in the days.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Sounds like you're a little jealous of all Roberts crowdfunding money, but I'm sorry if you want to fleece people you'll have to start your own kickstarter campaign rather than begging in forum threads.
are you refering to specifically this statement when you say he is being intentionally decipective
And I add more. He intentionally deceived people, promising to release the full game on or before the estimate delivery date and in a worst case scenario, an year later
because I am saying that is NOT an example of being intentionally deceptive
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}