I can get the fact that it wouldn't properly interlace with the PU and existing SC universe. But Star Marine is a standalone module anyways. They could have simply launched as standalone and then later fixed what was broken. That would have been a simple easy fix to the problem described. Ok they couldn't integrate it but they could launch it standalone. Since the standalone supposively worked very well there was no excuse to trash it. Yea this is very shady no matter how it spins right now.
1. They launch it as standalone making backers happy but explaining it will need major changes. 2. They fix it and wait over 1 year then get it out and it still needs major changes.
Which scenario is best for CIG?
I dont even understand what 'standalone module' even means so I am out until I see something on Steam
When you launch the game you have a few choices. Each choice is like a game mode. Click one thing you are dogfighting, Click something else you are in a FPS match. Click something else you are in the mmo. Each loads separately from the other and you have to exit out of each in order to play the other.
The Star Marine theme was discussed to exhaustion on these very boards in more than a dozen threads many months ago. You could easily necro one of these. Instead you are making yet another one asking people to speculate about a cold topic.
To what end exactly ?
Unless of course you have some fresh info about SM you want to share with us.
Ah, but its against the forum rules to necro old threads, so only new will do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
>>> Why did Roberts think this was even possible? >>>
In my personal opinion:
He expected no major problems when the Illfonic code was send back to CIG and was to be merged into the CIG SC code.
What they got was a clusterfuck of legendary proportions - it was basically impossible to incorporate the Illfonic stuff into the larger SC codebase. It looked cool as long as you only used the Illfonic code and did not try to incorporate it back into the overall game itself.
So instead of trying to repair something with a HUGE effort CIG decided to scrap the stuff developed by the external contractor, keep certain assets (e.g. Gold Horizon Station map) for later re-use and essentially re-do the FPS part from the ground up. Always checking that it merges well with the overall code.
In 2 weeks we will most likely see if it worked.
Have fun
This is actually defamation based on wild guesses without any source.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Roberts said this in July of 2015. Then you wonder why people are so critical of the game and its development. My question is.. Why did Roberts think this was even possible? I mean you don't tell people a game mode will launch within the next 2 months when its not even remotely ready for such a thing. Its been over 14 months since that statement.
PS. Made this thread so I wouldn't derail another thread.
Damnit. I had my post mentally prepared. Something about SC fans rejoicing, and naysayers eating dirt...
Clearly that one's getting shelved. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
1. CIG announces the launch of a certain gameplay element. 2. When the deadline comes along they claim it was so messed up they need to start from scratch yet again.
The only reasonable explanation is that the employee's lied to their boss so they wouldn't get fired.
Or the boss is lying to the backers so they will continue to give money.
Either way missing a deadline by over 12 months is just plain silly and yes I see how people are spinning it. Why in the heck would he say its 5 weeks out when its so messed up they need to trash the entire project and start from scratch? Anything that is 5 weeks out means its been tested and almost ready to launch. 5 weeks from launch is when you iron out wrinkles. Not scrap the entire project and start over.
Another thing... You mean to tell me they developed Star Marine without using the current SC engine? Why the heck would anyone do anything like that? You don't build a new engine when you already have one that works. I mean come on the reality of this complication isn't nothing like they are describing it. They know the game was using the SC engine and they knew that is what they had to use.
Read it and its just a long winded post for them saying oops we fucked up and didn't actually manage our third party dev. Most that of that letter is small tidbits of info buried within a sea of garbage and posturing. Again for a company that claims its so open with its dev process they sure do like to confuse things.
a) Illfonic made a pretty interesting looking shooter b) At the same time the engine was reworked to go 64 bit c) There were lots of skeleton changes at the time to unify the 1st and 3rd person animations d) They could not integrate a) into the modified engine.
Conclusion: I ,[nickname], will never change my opinion and do not like Star Citizen. I will always come to the conclusion that Star Citizen is mismanaged/scam/[insert favorite contra here] even if things like this happen in the whole business world all the f****** time (espacially when doing complex things and trying things the first time or in a different way).
I have one thing in common with the pro SC cultists... I am persistent and resistant to advice.
Sincerely yours,
[nickname]
P.S. Sometimes I catch myself watching Star Citizen videos or even playing it and... I like it.
Read it and its just a long winded post for them saying oops we fucked up and didn't actually manage our third party dev. Most that of that letter is small tidbits of info buried within a sea of garbage and posturing. Again for a company that claims its so open with its dev process they sure do like to confuse things.
More like, Oops we didn't realize you wanted this game to run on windows for pc. So instead we made it to run on Linux now we have to start over. Its like common sense you make sure you know what the program is being run on before writing the damn thing. CIG is claiming that they didn't even realize what they were suppose to be coding Star Marine for. Thats just bullcrap.
Its your link. They wrote Star Marine in a language that the base game couldn't read. So that is why they couldn't integrate it. Thats like first step in making anything with computers. What language and what will it be integrated with. They claim it was done wrong and well its just like my example. They didn't ask or find out how it was going to be plugged into the game? Because if they did then it would plug in. Because it wont plug in they clearly didn't find out first. The first thing any coder needs to find out before doing anything. You can honestly say they didn't know the basics....
Why wait until the 17th-21th August (GamesCom, Cologne, Germany) when new information on Star Marine can be expected ?
But how much of the information passed at GamesCon will actually be true or make it into the game anytime soon? Last year all we heard about was Star Marine and then it would be out in "weeks not months" and we know how that turned out...
Anyone can access the GamesCon presentation from last year on youtube and see how much of that stuff is actually in the game one year later. Why should we expect this years presentation to be any different? I'm sure you will get lots of great news and Roberts will say lots of fantastic features are coming soon but in the end, its just more words.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Why wait until the 17th-21th August (GamesCom, Cologne, Germany) when new information on Star Marine can be expected ?
But how much of the information passed at GamesCon will actually be true or make it into the game anytime soon? Last year all we heard about was Star Marine and then it would be out in "weeks not months" and we know how that turned out...
Anyone can access the GamesCon presentation from last year on youtube and see how much of that stuff is actually in the game one year later. Why should we expect this years presentation to be any different? I'm sure you will get lots of great news and Roberts will say lots of fantastic features are coming soon but in the end, its just more words.
Eh we are talking about years now. Still not buying that crap how CIG didn't bother to tell them what Star Marine was going to be running on. Its like hey build me an engine for an automobile. First thing you would do is ask what kind of automobile. They completely ignored the first question any program writer needs to ask before they can begin writing.
Why wait until the 17th-21th August (GamesCom, Cologne, Germany) when new information on Star Marine can be expected ?
But how much of the information passed at GamesCon will actually be true or make it into the game anytime soon? <snip>
No need to speculate.
The alpha is out there = what is available now.
If they say this will be added to the alpha and it doesn't happen = big problems. If they deliver though = new state of game + new thread on why its not happening. And maybe it won't happen but:
The alpha is out there.
Its a two edged sword. It cuts through bullshit but is sharp enough to harm the wielder.
Remember when Roberts was touting how this modular approach to design was so grand, and how it would help the game development so? Yay, well. I pretty much predicted it would blow up on them. CIG must agree, as they've pulled everything back in house after their early erroneous projections. Not to mention having his own little empire is good for the ego.
Roberts projects are always disorganized affairs. Have been since his inception as boss. It is as likely as not that CIG changed something in their game engine revamp that caused the illfonic module to not function properly -- and didn't keep illfonic updated on it while in progress. David Jennison remarks on this exact thing happening to him in his analysis of CIG problems. You enthusiastic folks are paying to support really sadsack game management and design. With enough money they may blunder through, as they do have some (probably pretty beleaguered) talent working on the game.
As always, citing Chris Roberts as a factual source holds no weight. He's fully capable of lying to himself, and thus to everyone else, with complete assurance. Or complete bloviation. With the conventions coming up, he'll be strutting around, making pronouncements, bathing in the adulation. The test will be in whether they can actually deliver it in near future. They certainly didn't with 'Star Marine'. I expect that pattern to continue.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Why pay any attention to the past when we can stare into the blinding glow of The Future!
Pronouncements from on high? -- I'll believe them when they show up where everyone can play with them. At present that's the Test Server. Which is what it's likely to be for a long time.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I do not care about Star Citizen as I am not really interested in the game. I do however read some of the threads for amusement. I am not sure how people can still back the game at this point. The company has showed incompetence over and over. If Roberts said the module was coming out in 4-5 weeks he was either outright lying or totally incompetent. If I was in charge of this project I would certainly make sure of what I was saying before I said it. I understand things happen, but the module should have basically been finished at that time. Now we are looking at 2 years later. If it was delayed a month or two that is one thing, but a couple years should not be acceptable. Maybe they just scrapped the whole thing because it sucked. If that was the case they should have be upfront about it.
Remember when Roberts was touting how this modular approach to design was so grand, and how it would help the game development so? Yay, well. I pretty much predicted it would blow up on them. <snip>
What? You know software design has been modular since at least the eighties right? Lots of non-software stuff as well for that matter.
Eh we are talking about years now. Still not buying that crap how CIG didn't bother to tell them what Star Marine was going to be running on. Its like hey build me an engine for an automobile. First thing you would do is ask what kind of automobile. They completely ignored the first question any program writer needs to ask before they can begin writing.
They branched off the code.
You start working on an automobile. Then you say "Hey Illfonic, go design the glass panes for the windows." They are working on the glass panes, while someone else is working on the metal frame. Meanwhile, a lot of changes happen to the metal frame, the shape of the car is a Lamborghini instead of the initial school bus. 6 months later, Illifonic arrives "Tadaa, here are the windows." Someone looks at the shape of the windows and the shape of the car, for the first time ever. "But Frank, these windows don't fit the Lamborghini." "Well fuck."
There likely was some significant management issue for this to happen. Why would you not know it is a clusterfuck ahead of time? Whoever was making the "metal frame" likely never got to see the "windows". It is also very likely the final product by Illifonic was not well received. If it was, you would have spent the resources to make it work with the updates to the game engine. Instead, they scrapped majority of it.
I do not see how the single player campaign gets released in any reasonable timeframe.
Eh we are talking about years now. Still not buying that crap how CIG didn't bother to tell them what Star Marine was going to be running on. Its like hey build me an engine for an automobile. First thing you would do is ask what kind of automobile. They completely ignored the first question any program writer needs to ask before they can begin writing.
They branched off the code.
You start working on an automobile. Then you say "Hey Illfonic, go design the glass panes for the windows." They are working on the glass panes, while someone else is working on the metal frame. Meanwhile, a lot of changes happen to the metal frame, the shape of the car is a Lamborghini instead of the initial school bus. 6 months later, Illifonic arrives "Tadaa, here are the windows." Someone looks at the shape of the windows and the shape of the car, for the first time ever. "But Frank, these windows don't fit the Lamborghini." "Well fuck."
There likely was some significant management issue for this to happen. Why would you not know it is a clusterfuck ahead of time? Whoever was making the "metal frame" likely never got to see the "windows". It is also very likely the final product by Illifonic was not well received. If it was, you would have spent the resources to make it work with the updates to the game engine. Instead, they scrapped majority of it.
I do not see how the single player campaign gets released in any reasonable timeframe.
That seems logical. SC is constantly going through changes. Their plans appear to be changing on the fly a lot. I could see a second company not up on the changes would produce something that was great two years ago but not for the current design. Lack of communication on updates? A chunk of pledge money kissed goodbye? Who knows.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
See link in my post above for details ("Letter from the Chairman")
Have fun
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Lets once again rehash all the old arguments which will be obsolete in 8 days anyway ....
Lets indulge in the Troll Wars while there is still time ....
LEROOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.......................
Have fun
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Clearly that one's getting shelved. xD
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https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
1. CIG announces the launch of a certain gameplay element.
2. When the deadline comes along they claim it was so messed up they need to start from scratch yet again.
The only reasonable explanation is that the employee's lied to their boss so they wouldn't get fired.
Or the boss is lying to the backers so they will continue to give money.
Either way missing a deadline by over 12 months is just plain silly and yes I see how people are spinning it. Why in the heck would he say its 5 weeks out when its so messed up they need to trash the entire project and start from scratch? Anything that is 5 weeks out means its been tested and almost ready to launch. 5 weeks from launch is when you iron out wrinkles. Not scrap the entire project and start over.
Another thing... You mean to tell me they developed Star Marine without using the current SC engine? Why the heck would anyone do anything like that? You don't build a new engine when you already have one that works. I mean come on the reality of this complication isn't nothing like they are describing it. They know the game was using the SC engine and they knew that is what they had to use.
You got nothing else to do as to repeat the same things over and over again?
If not... sad...
Hell... even when I "reduce my mantra" too often it gets boring.
O b s e s s i o n
a) Illfonic made a pretty interesting looking shooter
b) At the same time the engine was reworked to go 64 bit
c) There were lots of skeleton changes at the time to unify the 1st and 3rd person animations
d) They could not integrate a) into the modified engine.
Conclusion: mismanagement.
I have one thing in common with the pro SC cultists... I am persistent and resistant to advice.
Sincerely yours,
[nickname]
P.S. Sometimes I catch myself watching Star Citizen videos or even playing it and... I like it.
Have fun
Anyone can access the GamesCon presentation from last year on youtube and see how much of that stuff is actually in the game one year later. Why should we expect this years presentation to be any different? I'm sure you will get lots of great news and Roberts will say lots of fantastic features are coming soon but in the end, its just more words.
The alpha is out there = what is available now.
If they say this will be added to the alpha and it doesn't happen = big problems.
If they deliver though = new state of game + new thread on why its not happening.
And maybe it won't happen but:
The alpha is out there.
Its a two edged sword. It cuts through bullshit but is sharp enough to harm the wielder.
Remember when Roberts was touting how this modular approach to design was so grand, and how it would help the game development so? Yay, well. I pretty much predicted it would blow up on them. CIG must agree, as they've pulled everything back in house after their early erroneous projections. Not to mention having his own little empire is good for the ego.
Roberts projects are always disorganized affairs. Have been since his inception as boss. It is as likely as not that CIG changed something in their game engine revamp that caused the illfonic module to not function properly -- and didn't keep illfonic updated on it while in progress. David Jennison remarks on this exact thing happening to him in his analysis of CIG problems. You enthusiastic folks are paying to support really sadsack game management and design. With enough money they may blunder through, as they do have some (probably pretty beleaguered) talent working on the game.
As always, citing Chris Roberts as a factual source holds no weight. He's fully capable of lying to himself, and thus to everyone else, with complete assurance. Or complete bloviation. With the conventions coming up, he'll be strutting around, making pronouncements, bathing in the adulation. The test will be in whether they can actually deliver it in near future. They certainly didn't with 'Star Marine'. I expect that pattern to continue.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Why pay any attention to the past when we can stare into the blinding glow of The Future!
Pronouncements from on high? -- I'll believe them when they show up where everyone can play with them. At present that's the Test Server. Which is what it's likely to be for a long time.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
You start working on an automobile. Then you say "Hey Illfonic, go design the glass panes for the windows." They are working on the glass panes, while someone else is working on the metal frame. Meanwhile, a lot of changes happen to the metal frame, the shape of the car is a Lamborghini instead of the initial school bus. 6 months later, Illifonic arrives "Tadaa, here are the windows." Someone looks at the shape of the windows and the shape of the car, for the first time ever. "But Frank, these windows don't fit the Lamborghini." "Well fuck."
There likely was some significant management issue for this to happen. Why would you not know it is a clusterfuck ahead of time? Whoever was making the "metal frame" likely never got to see the "windows". It is also very likely the final product by Illifonic was not well received. If it was, you would have spent the resources to make it work with the updates to the game engine. Instead, they scrapped majority of it.
I do not see how the single player campaign gets released in any reasonable timeframe.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey