Why I've had enough of WoW

Rictis · February 2009

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by Aguitha

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by Aguitha

I stop reading after you said you level up to 46. You simply cannot review this game with your 46 levels of experience. Maybe 4 years ago before all the expansions you might had a sort of opinion, but now your text wall is worth nothing.

Oh, maybe I should have levelled to 80 and then started whining about how everything that mattered is stats, as you did in that other thread of yours?

If anything, I know precisely what to expect at 80 -- the damn treadmill for said stats instead of levels. How can you blame me for stopping way before that?

Can you imagine how dreadfully boring that levelling to 80 actually is? And for people who say it's quick -- I must be missing something. It's dreadfully long.

But by all means, dismiss the views of anyone who isn't 80 before even reading them. Then you'll be wondering why nobody bothers to get up to 80 anymore.

I'm just saying you cannot review a game you've seen 5% of it.

If I'm genuinely seeing only 5% of the game when I'm past the 50% point on the level ladder, I think it's fair to make the case that Blizzard has made the perks out of whack even more than the levels are, and that expansions have made it even worse. What is there in WOTLK, for instance, for new players just starting out? Nothing.

There used to be a time when they had those lengthy conversations over the casual vs. hardcore question. If it weren't for the clockwork raid thing, I'd be tempted to say it's for the casual. But every new expansion adds stuff at the top instead of at the bottom. What it does is satisfy its existing clientele at the expense of new players to the game. But whatever they do, it's still a superficial treadmill.

Im sorry but I have to agree with the OP here, Blizzard is stacking content on end game with every expansion. Yes the phasing is sweet and the end game content is def fun. However to the OP's point, eventually it all gets old, your basically just trying to get better gear.

Blizzard doesnt include much for new players, the only new thing that was introduced was in BC for Dranei/Blood elf race picks, and inscription for WOTLK. a few new zones were added for the new races, but thats the majority of it. and Inscription is great but severely needs a tweek. (which i think its getting in the next patch, for dual specs)

The majority of WoW is fun to play from 70-80 at this point, the rest of the game is almost a waste of time to go through. The increased level cap is spreading the player base thinner and thinner with every expansion, at least for new players. I think Blizzard would have been a more efficient game if they added a way to improve characters above and beyond gear and by increasing the levels.

On another note, I think the next Expansion is The Emerald Dream and level cap will be raised to 90, Blizzard made mention in a release from an interview (forget the link) that WoW would go to 100 at the max for level cap.

To the OP, yes you can review the game at level 46, however if you reviewed it at that level the game was and still is alot of fun. In fact the higher you get the more interesting the game becomes because the skills flow in nicely together. If you truely have this much of an issue with the game itself at 46, I would recomend stoping and trying something else. WoW is not for everyone...and it even took me a while to adapt to get used to it. I played way too many older MMO's that were nothing like WoW....then again Vanilla WoW =/ current WoW.

[Deleted User] · February 2009

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Mwaji · February 2009

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Mwaji

Things you cant explain to a fanboi.
PvP is not challenging, followed soon by a response about Arena being balanced when everyone and their mother knows it is not. You show them the whole list populated by Pallies and DKs they jump at the chance to show the one out of 500 players thats a Warlock. They state pvp is still hard for them and they consider themselves good pvpers, ha ha.
Raiding is easy, usually followed by a raiding is really hard you just didn't notice, soon followed by some nonsense about achivements. You tell them your guild cleared a majoraty already they show you the pie chart from wowrookie.com showing you that your just imagining the whole thing.
The game is dull and just a slog. Usually followed by some response about the game lore, after giving us all a good chuckle about that they follow with an explanation about wows in depth mini games and maybe mention Wintergrasp, double LoL there.
Then they tell us this site is biased and the "real" wow players are enjoying their life changeing experience on wow, ... when we just got back from reading the WoW pvp and raiding forums endless stream of complaints.... and are trying to figure out what planet they are on, or what they are smoking.
WoW fanbois see that the hardcore and even softcore the average players have decided the game is for kids or Easy, they hate not being taken seriously and are really just fighting for relevance with false arguements to win their PR battle.

Ah, the things you cannot explain to trolls.

1. People play the game that they enjoy and there is no need to defend it.

2. Playing WOW does not make you any less of a gamer. As a matter of fact, many WOW players have probably played MMO's longer than most people would believe.

3. Old cliche arguments against people who play WOW are simply that - cliches.

4. Your opinion of the game is no more correct or valid than my opinion; however, you believe your opinion is.

You could have just written "I feel I feel I feel"

5. Through insults, name-calling and overall "I am better than you" mentality, you attempt to believe non-WOW players are some how better gamers and people.

I don't know about name calling, but given your past responses I'm almost certain I'm better than you.

6. Why can you not accept that people like the game and you don't? Tell you what I am going to go troll every game forum out there just because I hate it and just to make myself feel better so I can be like WOW trolls. Makes a lot of sense to me.

I'll tell you what I accept, I accept the fact that most former and the current 11+mil wow players don't like the direction the game has gone, I also accept the fact that you are indeed the Minority here favoring weakness and watered down game play.

7. False arguments? I do not think so, every time proof is offered and the argument begins to be won by those who actually like the game and can see past the cliches, the trolls stop posting and stop replying. Then they come and bump a thread out of the blue, for no reason, only to use the same tired, old and stupid arguments to make themselves seem mightier. The problem is no argument is good enough for you and nothing we can say or post would change that so I honestly have no idea why trolls continue to bother using the same arguments over and over if you are not going to pay any attention to the counter arguments (read this entire thread and you will see what I mean).

WHAT FACTS?! really what? Where are they? Most of your so called facts exist totally in your own universe.

Don't worry when Darkfall launches and is the massive failure and not what people want it to be (for one reason or another), arguments in the WOW forums will be boring.

I like your tactic of saying "don't insult wow and then turning right around and insulting Darkfall, like anyone said a frakkin thing about Darkfall in the first place.

This post was a prime example of Fanboi response point #4 When i doubt claim your part of a secret majority who likes things the way they are. Then invent facts that don't exists...... without actually stating any facts... at all.

Again for a referral to actual WoW feelings about the ( State of the Game) go to the official WoW forums. I doubt you'll find any love for the current game as it stands.

[Deleted User] · February 2009

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Smikis · February 2009

Originally posted by Guillermo197

The only problem I had with WoW and why I quit playing was the community.
The game itself is awesome and fun to play.
It's just the community that consists about 75% of 14-year olds (real 14-year olds or older peeps acting like one) playing 24/7 using their mommy's creditcard.
It's just the amount of immaturity and the horrible attitude of many players that made getting fed up with WoW.
Usually the RP servers hold a more mature population. But it was always inevitable and just a matter of time till they got overrun by 14-year olds as well.
Wich is a shame.

it doesnt feel like this anymore tbh.. specially if you play in guild and with some friends.. you dont need to communicate with those 14 years old kids.. you will meet one or another.. but tell me a game where you wont..

raiding isnt even close to second job in wotlk. it takes 2 days raiding 3-4h to clear every content atm,

most guilds raid 2-3 timesa week for 3 hours.. without asking you to have 75% activity.. i mean if you cant spare 1-2 evenings for a game, maybe gaming isnt the thing you should do..

well atleast we aint finding those "i play half hour a week, why i cant have epics " posts anymore ( used to be every second post 3 years ago.. oh that was horrid , and i rly mean.. ppl were saying they have half hour in a week to play )

Yrcrazypa · February 2009

Originally posted by TheHavok

To the OP,
You would have been a great gamer 4-3 years ago.
Im surprised you are not addicted now. Please, please level to 80. Experience endgame, then be a judge, Hell I hate endgane and yet Im stil playing. Want to know why? You need to play to find out

End-game is just as much a treadmill as leveling. Only instead of killing extremely dumb AI for levels, you are playing Simon Says for gear.

And the whole 'phasing' of zones as you play in the expansion? Yeah, you know what? Lord of the Rings Online had that LONG before WoW did, so its not revolutionary.

aqua61209 · February 2009

Just like most of the gaming magazines said.

"Blizz gives no new reasons for new players to start the game"

I agree with that statement! Just a massive grind to 80. BORING.

Bama1267 · February 2009

All valid points. However , why would you subject yourself to that type of game. You knew full well before you went into WOW what type of game it was. The first 3/4 of your post of complaints was known before you even started. Why would you play a game knowing it wasn't the type of game you like to play? Thats no better than me going and playing Lineage 2 ... then making a post on how i detest PvP and looting players. Seriously .... doesn't make much sense to me.

TidusR · February 2009

I must admit, I have grown tired of wow at late. I now spending my time playin lotro and runes of magic but I will hopefully find the will to give blizzard my 8.99 again lol

ValiumSummer · February 2009

Holy crap. I've never been inspired to write a novel about why I quit a game.

littlemonkey · February 2009

Outstanding. Well written and accurate. Thanks.

Sarr · February 2009

If you're bored of WoW and it's clones, want something really different, I recommend Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO).

I'm a former WoW player too, and a veteran of many other mmos. I can't find better game for me than DDO since a looong time . Tried comming back to WoW after WotLK came, but it was disappointment soon after. DDO is doing better and better again (or maybe for the first time?) and there are many new players - many are former WoWers too.

DDO section of Turbine is nothing like Blizzard's greediness, nothing like Blizzard's copying of each new mmo's elements which just proove "money-making". DDO is unique, Turbine is innovative and has the bravery of adding absolutely new solutions. They're also passionate about the game, as well as the players are.

So, just look at my sig - there's DDO EU trial - and give it a try . You're welcome!

Blodpls · February 2009

WoW is quite a good game but it is just a giant treadmill and the gameplay is polished but actually quite bad. Whilst you are playing it your are still looking forward to getting your next piece of loot or whatever and aren't looking at the gameplay as thats not where the enjoyment comes from. It's easier to see it's flaws when you are not playing it anymore, I think this is why opinion is so polarized on the subject. I would bet that when most of the fans stop playing wow they will not have so high an opinion of the game looking back on it.

SonofSeth · February 2009

Originally posted by Blodpls

WoW is quite a good game but it is just a giant treadmill and the gameplay is polished but actually quite bad. Whilst you are playing it your are still looking forward to getting your next piece of loot or whatever and aren't looking at the gameplay as thats not where the enjoyment comes from. It's easier to see it's flaws when you are not playing it anymore, I think this is why opinion is so polarized on the subject. I would bet that when most of the fans stop playing wow they will not have so high an opinion of the game looking back on it.

Most people stop playing when they stop having fun, get it?

Vetarnias · February 2009

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Blodpls

WoW is quite a good game but it is just a giant treadmill and the gameplay is polished but actually quite bad. Whilst you are playing it your are still looking forward to getting your next piece of loot or whatever and aren't looking at the gameplay as thats not where the enjoyment comes from. It's easier to see it's flaws when you are not playing it anymore, I think this is why opinion is so polarized on the subject. I would bet that when most of the fans stop playing wow they will not have so high an opinion of the game looking back on it.

Most people stop playing when they stop having fun, get it?

Indeed and that's why the - I - factor in the title of this thread means nothing compared to the "we" factor of 11.500.000 people playing it (and paying for it).

I don't know why, but the way you're phrasing it (probably the "means nothing compared to") really scares the hell out of me. Most likely because it has "tyranny of the majority" written all over it -- the "I" means nothing and must be subsumed into the vast crowd. Certain ideologies actively pursued that, but better leave it at this.

I am a bit surprised to see that this thread has been resurrected; I hadn't been paying attention to this forum in a few weeks.

I just wanted to comment also on one point above: Someone mentioned Darkfall. I had some passing interest in Darkfall, out of curiosity mostly, but that is gearing up to be a flop, for a few different reasons. First, based on beta reports (I wasn't in it), it's just woefully incomplete, with parts of the game either not fully implemented or completely absent. Second, everybody openly talks of macroing and exploits to get the other guy tagged by deliberately tricking players into attacking them. And finally, because it seems to have attracted the rabble of gaming who are strictly out there to gank and grief (and openly admit as much) with the developers themselves fully embracing this sort of behaviour.

The problem is this: I'm expecting some WoW players to openly claim victory against Darkfall the day it becomes clear that game is a failure. I do remember seeing a drawing a while back that showed all the games which WoW supposedly had killed, some kind of hunting board with the heads of other games mounted as wall trophies and mention of giving Age of Conan a head start, something like that (if someone has the link to it, it would be much appreciated), and which included in fact a few games which didn't even try to compete with WoW because they were in completely different genres (Tabula Rasa and Pirates of the Burning Sea were on there, for example). It gets annoying to see some WoW supporters apparently getting kicks out of killing other games, especially some titles which are deemed competitors strictly because they are MMO's.

When a game tries to be WoW and fails, WoW players claim a victory; when a game which doesn't try to be WoW fails, it doesn't make any difference to them because they quickly hail it as proof that WoW is what the people want. In other words, WoW clones fail because they're too much like WoW; non-WoW clones fail because they're not enough like WoW. So if Darkfall fails, it will just prove that people want WoW and nothing else, right?

That type of attitude just makes it sound like some people just want WoW sitting in the middle of an empty field, claiming that it represents a victory of the WoW "casuals" over the MMO "elitists" who dare to ask for something different (never mind WoW's own brand of elitism, visible for all to see in any recruiting spam around the main cities). I think many MMO gamers would happily leave WoW be if it weren't for some of its players' scorched-earth policy.

Pappy13 · February 2009

Originally posted by Vetarnias

I picked up World of Warcraft (Battle Chest edition) in late November, and did not buy the Wrath of the Lich King expansion because it was indicated to me that it was completely useless below level 55. It was just as well that I did not buy it, because I only made it to level 46 before I tired of the game. Perhaps my less than positive view of WoW is a result of my blasé attitude, as these past twelve months I gravitated from (to limit the list to subscription-based games) Pirates of the Burning Sea (five months), to Age of Conan (six weeks), to Warhammer Online (a week), and finally to Blizzard's cash cow in late November. Six weeks later, I've had enough of World of Warcraft.

I'll give you credit that it's a nice piece of writing. And I'll also give you credit for making some good points, however you touched on almost nothing new. Everything you have said has already been said about a million times before and by more experienced people than yourself. How in the world you feel qualified to pontificate on things like the end game or the best build for Paladins when you didn't even make it past level 46 is beyond me. Not to say that your opinion isn't valid, I think it is for the most part, but you have to admit that there's still much for you to learn and I think your opinion was largely already crafted long before you installed the game. After all you are only now trying the game after 4 years of the game being available. Simply too much has already been discussed for you to have come into your opinion unbiased. If you had played the game say 3 and 1/2 years ago and reached this conclusion without any preconceived notions, your words would have more weight.

Pappy13 · February 2009

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Ullshitbay. I wanted to like it, and I disregarded most views of the game, positive or negative, before I started playing.
Please explain to a simple person than how you came up with your views on end game and the best build for paladins when you only reached lvl 46? You repeatedly quoted some other person in your original post, please explain how these are your own thoughts?
Sorry, but you obviously had some pre-conceived notions about the game before you ever started playing, so please dispense with the "I disregarded most views of the game, positive or negative, before I sarted playing". Utter nonsense.
I'm sure you believe it, but that doesn't make it true.

Bama1267 · February 2009

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Ullshitbay. I wanted to like it, and I disregarded most views of the game, positive or negative, before I started playing.
Please explain to a simple person than how you came up with your views on end game and the best build for paladins when you only reached lvl 46? You repeatedly quoted some other person in your original post, please explain how these are your own thoughts?
Sorry, but you obviously had some pre-conceived notions about the game before you ever started playing, so please dispense with the "I disregarded most views of the game, positive or negative, before I sarted playing". Utter nonsense.
I'm sure you believe it, but that doesn't make it true.

Exactly. Every point made and all were good points , but they were nothing new. The Op knew going in that this was not the type of game he liked to play. so did he do it out of shear boredom from lack of games to play? I don't know exactly, but I find it utterly ludicrous to come on here and rehash what everyone has already said about the game who did not like it.

drbaltazar · February 2009

Originally posted by Vetarnias

I picked up World of Warcraft (Battle Chest edition) in late November, and did not buy the Wrath of the Lich King expansion because it was indicated to me that it was completely useless below level 55. It was just as well that I did not buy it, because I only made it to level 46 before I tired of the game. Perhaps my less than positive view of WoW is a result of my blasé attitude, as these past twelve months I gravitated from (to limit the list to subscription-based games) Pirates of the Burning Sea (five months), to Age of Conan (six weeks), to Warhammer Online (a week), and finally to Blizzard's cash cow in late November. Six weeks later, I've had enough of World of Warcraft.
I don't think I have seen a game that led to such polarized views, with WoW fans on one side who hope that their game will last forever (it won't), and the haters on the other side who apparently not only despise the philosophy of the game but also its impact on the industry, where WoW clones have become the norm. While I am skeptical of gamers who would turn the clock back to the "good old days" of pre-Trammel UO, I think they are right when they claim that WoW is a poor example of an MMO, closer as it is to a single-player game which many people play simultaneously than to a genuine MMORPG in the traditional sense of the word.
The game world, for instance, is very polished but has no depth; whatever you do in it will have no impact upon the dynamics of said game universe. As I played on a PvP server, I always found it ironic that we should have "contested" areas which would never in fact switch from one side to the other. The player's part in this? Kill a few NPC's and enemy players, but nothing more -- Tarren Mill and Southshore will always remain Horde and Alliance towns, respectively, regardless of how many enemy players overrun them on a regular basis. This gets old, very quickly -- and the static world changes absolutely nothing on an unbalanced PvP server.
Not to mention that the open-world PvP in those so-called contested areas is a misnomer. When it's not a level- or number-based gankfest, the PvP is back to the same annoying "tactics" I have come to expect in every game out there -- kiting, running in circles, stealth and waiting until the opponent is half-dead from NPC encounters comes to mind. In other words, I find that PvP in gaming has deteriorated into a series of clichés, with WoW leading the way not because it has given birth to such tactics, but because it has made them notorious.
This wouldn't be so bad if the game did not also force me to play a certain way instead of being genuinely free to build my class as I see fit. I played a Blood Elf paladin, and when it comes to "pallys" the word was out that "Retribution" was the best build available. And the word being out was, for once, correct: Just reading the description of the various "skills", it was apparent that the Retribution build was vastly superior to the other two, with its various bonuses to offense and other perks (including faster mount speed). But there was a hitch: I did not want to play a Retribution paladin. I have always been a sword-and-shield type of player, preferring to go for tanking and relying on priests and ranged attackers for support -- and the build for it was Protection, not Retribution (which instead gives advantages to two-handed weapons). However, due to the genuine superiority of the Retribution build, I was placing myself at a disadvantage simply for not selecting it.
I would even be prepared to disregard this if it weren't for the ludicrous level imbalances in the game. It so happens that I can hit an enemy NPC five levels above me with great difficulty, and that one higher by a margin of six levels or more almost always means certain death. Even equipment is ludicrously unbalanced. The basic defense bonus for a level-80 cape, for instance, is higher than for a level-5 chest armor, and that's not even taking into account the bonus it gives to other statistics; just try to imagine this in real life. All in all, I will say that as far as treadmill games are concerned, this is the worst I have played; not to mention that with new levels added on top by each expansion, it makes the exercise even more painful. But what a brilliant idea Blizzard had to make this game both level- and gear-based; when you've finally reached 60, then 70, then 80, begins the quest for epic gear in dungeons. And by the time you've obtained the best gear you could ever get, well, the next expansion will probably be out to make you step on the treadmill again before you could relish being king of the (pointless) hill.
This is so transparent as to be infuriating; on a PvP server, it all but forces you to buy every new expansion or be condemned to loser status. I can't say I even have a choice when it comes to deciding whether I want the expansions or not -- because a 10-level difference or more inevitably means certain death. (To add insult to injury, you can't even see how much of an unbalanced gank that is if the other player is much higher than you.) Add on top of this an unhealthy dose of ego-stroking instant-gratification, supplemented by the unhealthy amount of derision for low-level players built into the game thanks to the level treadmill (or as I like to put it, "your gear is the best in the world... until next level, where it's obsolete and where you suck if you keep it"), and you get a highly questionable game. Worse still, even professions such as fishing and cooking have been pegged to level progression -- even if you wanted to be an artisan fisherman, you couldn't do it without first levelling to 45. Maybe I would just like to cast my line without being sent on a run-of-the-mill "Kill X This, Fetch Y that" quest.
Jonathan Blow, the maker of Braid (which I haven't played), made headlines when he called World of Warcraft "unethical". There was much whining in some circles about his comment, but he's right. In his words: "When you play World of Warcraft -- and what I'm about to say is a generalization, since different players enjoy different things, obviously -- a lot of the appeal of playing World of Warcraft is not in the core gameplay mechanic, because it's boring, a lot of the time. Sometimes when you're on a really good raid with a team and you're getting teamwork going and that's a close call, that can be exciting, but if you graph out what players are doing over the average 12-hour play session or whatever... That's obviously hyperbole, but if you're looking at what activities they're actually performing, there's not that much good gameplay in there. I think what keeps them in there is, at first, the level ding, because it's very addictive to get that. "Okay, I've got more gold. Whatever." And eventually, they've made this huge time investment and they've got a character there and they know what that level ding feels like and the next one is pretty far off, but they can get there! And it's not any better, because this is like number 67. It's got to be better than 66!"
In other words: The most boring journey possible to reach your destination, the last level until the next expansion. But what destination are we talking about anyway? Well, in one word: nowhere. You just start to grind for gear instead of levels on the endless treadmill of WoW. Just hang around your average city, and you will see those guilds recruiting, asking specifically for level-80's, and sometimes for specific classes. And if you get in, it becomes a job. You *must* be available to do the raid at this or that time. Sometimes they even ask that you be properly geared before they let you in, starting a vicious elitist circle that never really ends.
Once more in the words of Jonathan Blow: "World of Warcraft says: You are a schlub who has nothing better to do than sit around performing repetitive, mindless actions. Skill and shrewdness do not count for much; what matters is how much time you sink in. You don't need to do anything exceptional, because to feel good you just need to run the treadmill like everyone else." When people complain about WoW only requiring time of its players, not skill, this is what they are talking about. Someone once commented on an ad for WoW that went "Come join 8 million heroes!" by asking, "Suddenly every single player is automatically a hero?" A valid concern. What makes a hero? Logging in? And if everyone's a hero, what sort of game does that lead to? Well, a game where nobody can have an impact upon the world, because everyone must have the opportunity to be as heroic as the next guy -- if you wish, a single-player game played in parallel, not an MMO. It's not only hypocritical -- equality of outcome is impossible -- it's also contrary to the general philosophy of a level- and gear-based game where some are more heroic than others by virtue of having put in more grind-hours to get to a higher point.
I talked above how instant gratification permeated every aspect of the game, and it's reflected in the type of players the game is attracting: many "serious" people who treat it as a second job, but many kids who come in and behave like spoiled brats. I was constantly being begged for money, and one case in particular stands out in my mind. I was extremely well to do (as a result of selling vast quantities of one item, at 1 gold apiece or so, which most people probably knew that anyone could obtain by killing level-5 monsters wouldn't be bothered to do -- in other words, my fortune came from other players' laziness), and in later stages, when being asked for money, I sometimes gave one gold or two to lowbies to help them along. One such player, level 23ish, asked me for 20 gold, which in a moment of complete indifference I gave him, with the piece of advice that he should keep the amount to buy a mount at level 30.
The next time I heard from him, he had spent all the money I had given him, long before level 30. Worse still, he candidly admitted that he had obtained no less than 450 gold just by begging -- and he had spent it all. His answer when I asked him whether he thought begging was honourable? "Yes..." And what could have a level-25 player have spent 450 gold on, may you ask? He showed me an uncommon-quality level-24 cape, which he said he had bought for 100 gold. He had been ripped off, I told him. Then he showed me his sword, a rare-quality level 19 item he said he had bought for 90 gold. In that case, I knew that it was that twinking business which was ripping off every bona fide levelling player looking for better gear that was to blame, not the begging player's gullibility.
I learned about the twinking business by accident. I had once obtained a level-19 Sentry Cloak in a dungeon, which a fellow raider told me was worth 180 gold on the auctionhouse. Not knowing about twinks, I asked him what could possibly justify such a price. Twinks... An entire industry of alts dedicated to the purpose of not levelling, with their entire gear bought at high prices by their high-level owners, thus proving the gear-is-king mantra and the unethical conduct of players themselves. I sold that Sentry Cloak for 180 gold, because I knew that if I put in a price which I judged reasonable, one of the numerous auctionhouse stalkers (such as those selling back cheap recipes at outrageous prices) would grab it and immediately repost it at a more fitting price. The level-19 players looking for the best gear to level up based on what they could afford, well, they never had a chance.
On top of that, there is the pointless economy which is entirely dedicated to levelling up crafting skills at the expense of rewarding craftsmanship resulting from such levelling-up in the first place. On the server I played, a stack of 20 bars of mithril could fetch 30 gold, while any piece of armor made of a dozen mithril bars would barely fetch 5 gold because it would have to compete with open world loot, while being inferior to some bind-on-pickup equipment from quests and dungeons. Not to mention that all the items you were forced to craft would end up flooding the market because there is no way to get rid of them at a decent price. Then hurdles would be placed for those seeking to level up by requiring increasingly arcane ingredients for which no justification could possibly be satisfactory in otherwise straightforward recipes; perhaps it was essential to place those pearls and moonstones on that shining silver breastplate, but why did higher blacksmithing recipes invariably require ichors of this, breezes of that? What does it have to do with the craft of blacksmithing? Isn't magical stuff what enchanters should be doing? (I won't even discuss armorsmith recipes producing items which only other armorsmiths can wear; what a way to nip demand in the bud.) End result: Crafters hawk their skill in major cities in a desperate attempt to level up without having to go grind for all those ichors and breezes -- or grind for the money to buy them.
I have already written far more than I should have, because I know this will either be laughed off, met with a few "can I have your stuff?", or issued a few reminders that 11 million players can't be wrong. Let's just hope that the MMO industry can survive the WoW juggernaut; unfortunately, when every new game, including niche titles such as Pirates of the Burning Sea, get compared to WoW to demonstrate they're not doing well, it is to be feared that the genre has been killed off.
Who knows, maybe Blizzard's "More of the Same" approach to expansions will kill the game in the same fashion as adding new floors to a skyscraper might ruin its appearance or weaken its foundations. But I certainly hope that enough players will tire of the obvious WoW treadmill to ask for different types of games without having to leave it to Blizzard to wreck their own game with their greed.
if you dont like pvp and raid dont play video games lol,that being said if you like pvp then you got to be lvl 80 and in a guild to get top armor etc at lvl 46 or below i wonder what you saw lol lvl 60 was the first lvl 70 was the second etc.what this mean all pre 60 content as been made easy when bc came out and as been made even easyer when wotlk got out. of caurse you ll find lvl 46 boring lol.and its true that raid in wotlk looks easier but dont sweat it blizzard can make this game very hard ,they just made them a bit friendlier cause not a lot saw top bc raid content or post bc content .and blizzard tried to correct that error ,yes pro are annoied but pro are only 10 or 15 % of the wow community,the rest is mostly casual gamer .men, most dont have 4 to 5 hour for 4 or 5 days in a row to finish a raid like it used to be at lvl 60 (pre bc)

Pappy13 · February 2009

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Then ask yourself this: If WoW 2009 is so much better, that I haven't seen any of it, and that in fact even if I bought WotLK I still couldn't see any of the new stuff before level 55, whose fault is this? Not mine -- it's entirely Blizzard's. Why haven't they see fit to add to their game at every stage of the player levelling scale, instead of just adding on the top?

Actually they have. Here's a sample list of things that have been added to the game since release that can be enjoyed by anyone.

Meeting Stones, PvP Honor System, Battlegrounds, Darkmoon Faire and most all holiday content, Dressing Rooms, Weather, Key Rings, Arenas, Looking for group, Socketable items, Jewelcrafting, Prospecting, Daily Quests, Voice Chat, Guild Banks, Arena Tourney, Barbershop, Achievements, Inscriptions, Milling, Glyphs, improved shadows.

Not to mention all the interface improvements, items, skills, pets and gear of all levels that have been added of which there are too many to mention.

You see it's not JUST the fact that you only got to 46, it's that you have played for 6 weeks when some of us have been playing for 4+ years. You're trying to explain to us how our opinion is incorrect and that your opinion is correct, but you don't have one tenth of the knowledge of the game that we have. You have your opinion and you're welcome to it, but please don't try to convince me that your opinion is somehow better than mine own.

sorcielle · February 2009

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by daylight01

I think the OP is pretty much bang on with his post,he also touched onto the fact about if he joined a raid guild to do the end game it would have to be like a 2nd job and maybe thats not his thing,so saying he should do the end game doesnt hold much water.I did play the end content of the orginal release and quite a bit in TBC and alot of what the OP said is the reason's I stopped playing and deleted my guys.

What are you talking about raiding being a second job. My guild raids 6hrs per week. What you are talking about is from 3 years ago. Let me fill you in on the changes

1. All content can be seen by 10 man guilds. Takes much less time to organize everyone's schedule

2. Potions/flasks have been marginalized. You dont' have to grind for mats for potions anymore.

3. Resist fights don't exist anymore. No more grinding for 'my nature set'.

4. Almost NO repetitive trash. MC days are long gone.

Raids are no more time-consuming to put together than 5mans. Very little prep work needed and with only 10 players scheduling is a breeze.

I guess it also has to do with your guild. If you are joining a group of 'jerks' just because you want gear, then you are going to have to deal with 'dps charts' and worry about getting kicked for being to low. My guild only uses the charts to see who needs upgrades the most. We know each other well and know our classes very well. But yeah, join a bunch of people who are only out to get fast gear, and you get what you deserve.

Your spot on... the game is so much better with out this... instead of grinding for mats that actually help a raid, we can do dailies.. because i like to be told exactly when and how i can play a game.. it is far easier than my 5th grade math homework.

But really.. I hope the just put in an IWIN patch, so after logging on for 15 hours.. you just... WIN!

EATtheDEAD · February 2009

World of Warcraft is to blame for the stagnant boring state of mmo's. The people who are addicted to WoW are worse then religious fanatics. If only I could travel back in time to stop the creation of this soulless evil beast, and save mmo's from this depressing slow death

also, i saw a bunch of people flaming the OP for not getting to endgame, because all the fun starts once you get to endgame. wtf kind of game is it if you have to get to the very end to begin the fun part.... i like my mmo's to have the fun parts once you start playing, not once you reach the last level.

SonofSeth · February 2009

WoW is not good BECAUSE it has 11.5 mil subscribers, it's good becasue it had higher production values out of the gate than any other MMORPG before it. 11.5 mil is the concequence, not the reason.

Quantity of people isn't an irrefutable proof that a game is good, but likewise it's not proof of the oposite, like you seem to think.

Your reasons don't come off as well thought out and objective, but personal and reactonary to the number of people playing it.

happyclappy · February 2009

I downloaded a hack tool which allowed me to "noclip" just like cheating in a fps, i could also fly in the game. I thought it was BS, but right now I am on death knight in Zangarmarsh hiding underground to cap one of the PvP locations in the zone.

I've also been flying around orgrimmar and ironforge as various characters on multiple realms. Bizarrely some people thought I was a GM, the hack tool is that good, but most knew it was a hack and were like "WTF?". Now if this is what the gold sellers use and combined with a speed hack or warp hack then no wander they do it, it is EZ money for them and it must be more profitable than botting all day. Just take up mining and ninja nodes or chests. I reckon I could solo bosses like the tool claims, but I know that because I've been very visibile that it won't be long before I'm banned.

It makes a mockery of blizzards attempt at anti-hacking, I'm now about to take the west beacon..haha.

If Blizzard can't stop basic hacking like wallclimb, flying and noclip then I can't imagine anyone else being able to with there amount of resources. If they could I would be playing legit, because at the moment the gold sellers are laughing at Blizzard, they are too slow to respond and keep making cutbacks on GM personnel. (The fact some of Blizzards customer service are volunteers make me highly suspicous too)

If anyone wants to see what I can do, name an EU realm and faction and I'll be there floating around.

EATtheDEAD · February 2009

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by happyclappy

I downloaded a hack tool which allowed me to "noclip" just like cheating in a fps, i could also fly in the game. I thought it was BS, but right now I am on death knight in Zangarmarsh hiding underground to cap one of the PvP locations in the zone.
I've also been flying around orgrimmar and ironforge as various characters on multiple realms. Bizarrely some people thought I was a GM, the hack tool is that good, but most knew it was a hack and were like "WTF?". Now if this is what the gold sellers use and combined with a speed hack or warp hack then no wander they do it, it is EZ money for them and it must be more profitable than botting all day. Just take up mining and ninja nodes or chests. I reckon I could solo bosses like the tool claims, but I know that because I've been very visibile that it won't be long before I'm banned.
It makes a mockery of blizzards attempt at anti-hacking, I'm now about to take the west beacon..haha.
If Blizzard can't stop basic hacking like wallclimb, flying and noclip then I can't imagine anyone else being able to with there amount of resources. If they could I would be playing legit, because at the moment the gold sellers are laughing at Blizzard, they are too slow to respond and keep making cutbacks on GM personnel. (The fact some of Blizzards customer service are volunteers make me highly suspicous too)
If anyone wants to see what I can do, name an EU realm and faction and I'll be there floating around.

Worst post I ever read.

Come off the free server and down to earth please.

If you hate Wow that much, I should consult a doctor as soon as possible m8.

I also wonder HOW many of those Wow hating posters only played the game on a free server ???

lol post your server and toon zorndorf, so he can come fly around you since you think he is full of shit.

and why do you always edit your posts? do a spell check before you hit Post Message

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